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aheckenast 08-19-2021 05:39 PM

E53 M54 Exhaust Headers
 
Figured I'd share my header install experience I did on my '03 X5 3.0i this weekend. After getting fed up living with catalytic converter rattle I finally gave in & purchased these 'Doctor LAVR' M54 exhaust headers from a Moscow ebay seller.

They are custom made specifically for E53/E39 fitment unlike the usual cheaper E36/E46 ones typically found that will bolt up to M54 but flanges & angles will be wrong for this chassis.

The quality seems to be top notch. He included all gaskets & plugs/hardware required aside from the cylinder head studs/nuts which I picked up from the dealer.

As expected this job was a pain even on my work hoist but the fitment is perfect. One cylinder head nut I had to could only get on with an 11mm ratcheting wrench due to header tube blocking socket access but all others swivel sockets/U-joint worked fine. The headers are easier to work around than the factory cats.

The only tweak necessary was prying the center resonator pipes apart enough to get the flanges to match the header flanges. I didn't bother installing rear o2's as I might code them out of the DME. So for now CEL is on.

The exhaust volume went up exponentially with the headers & rear mufflers removed previously. It sounds very aggressive on startup & deep low down but gets obnoxious past partial throttle. I picked up some e53 4.4i N62 V8 rear mufflers to throw on & maybe modify. The catless exhaust smell is noticeable at times but way less than I expected.

Overall I am very pleased. Highly recommend these if you don't mind going catless on the 3.0i.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...84bb0d585e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...8e5461dbe7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...128f9673e9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...df7b5daf10.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...f2d34e5c02.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d6632cabab.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...f794c3286a.jpg

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9f0b0995ca.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...259077ac0b.jpg

Overboost 08-19-2021 05:41 PM

They look great! Nice welds. :thumbup:

Bdc101 08-19-2021 05:43 PM

This is something I've considered too, as I don't live in a state with smog testing. How much did they run you? I can't find the ebay seller. They do look pretty good though. I already have a set of 4.6iS mufflers on my car, but they didn't make any difference for the sound, which was kind of disappointing.

aheckenast 08-19-2021 06:07 PM

I might gut the 4.4i mufflers. But without cats I might not need to.

Here you go:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/332380752293

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Happy 08-19-2021 06:15 PM

I wish we could order these in the United States. I tried three times, with three different payment types. Nothing! I think they are banned to sell here.

aheckenast 08-19-2021 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy (Post 1208476)
I wish we could order these in the United States. I tried three times, with three different payment types. Nothing! I think they are banned to sell here.

You can. I had same issue. I contacted the seller & he had to send me an invoice through PayPal directly. I do live in Canada but another member on here in the States previously bought these same headers iirc.

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Happy 08-19-2021 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aheckenast (Post 1208477)
You can. I had same issue. I contacted the seller & he had to send me an invoice through PayPal directly. I do live in Canada but another member on here in the States previously bought these same headers iirc.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


THANKS for the heads up!!!! Good looking headers! I can’t wait to slap these bad boys on the truck!!

How long was shipping?

aheckenast 08-19-2021 06:28 PM

Glad to be of help. Message the seller through ebay. He's great, excellent fast service considering the time zone difference. It took a couple weeks to get to me (Vancouver, BC)

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Happy 08-19-2021 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aheckenast (Post 1208479)
Glad to be of help. Message the seller through ebay. He's great, excellent fast service considering the time zone difference. It took a couple weeks to get to me (Vancouver, BC)

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:thumbup:

plasstik 08-19-2021 11:04 PM

[emoji44][emoji44][emoji44]


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aheckenast 08-22-2021 06:20 PM

1 week update of driving with the headers. Vehicle feels more responsive, feels like it accelerates a little faster which is nice. Definitely enjoy driving it.

Starting to remind me more of when I owned a e46 330i 5spd despite the weight difference (4.10 e53 diffs ratio helps), that linear M54 power band. Really wish they had a standard trans V8 option.

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Bdc101 08-22-2021 09:27 PM

Did you happen to weigh the headers versus stock? Just curious how much weight you might have saved.



I believe you that you actually got some HP gains though. Those factory cats cannot be great for power.

aheckenast 08-22-2021 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bdc101 (Post 1208586)
Did you happen to weigh the headers versus stock? Just curious how much weight you might have saved.



I believe you that you actually got some HP gains though. Those factory cats cannot be great for power.

I didn't weigh them but they are definitely lighter & smaller than the factory manifolds.

Yeah engine just feels livelier/responsive.

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bcredliner 08-23-2021 01:33 PM

Nice install! I don't think it would pass emission tests in most of US. I have Dinan exhaust and it sounds great and very different than a stock X5 exhaust. For racing or lots of noise I have electric cutouts that can be opened as much and as little as desired. No drone using either. Just an option for others considering exhaust mods. You may be getting a small gain in HP/TQ using headers especially if they are equal length. In the good ol' days we installed headers so we could remove them from the collector, drop the exhaust down to connect to the bottom bolt only, so we had open headers.

Effduration 08-23-2021 05:30 PM

In MA, only cars 15yrs old and younger need to pass an emissions test.

So, you're correct, in that it probably wouldn't pass an emissions test, but in MA, I don't need one for my '05..

Overboost 08-23-2021 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effduration (Post 1208620)
In MA, only cars 15yrs old and younger need to pass an emissions test.

So, you're correct, in that it probably wouldn't pass an emissions test, but in MA, I don't need one for my '05..

Nice! In NC it's 25 years. A few more years for my E46 and E53.

My 1969 KG didn't need even need a visual inspection when I registered it. The only thing that is not working is the horn ATM but I got all the wiring sorted with the relay and just waiting on replacement horns ordered over the weekend.

aheckenast 08-24-2021 12:46 AM

Yeah that's a pain for all you down south subject to government mandated emissions testing. We use to have a program up here in BC but it's contract finished & they found no need to go on with vehicles being much cleaner now in general than when it began in the '90s.

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EODguy 08-24-2021 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aheckenast (Post 1208643)
Yeah that's a pain for all you down south subject to government mandated emissions testing. We use to have a program up here in BC but it's contract finished & they found no need to go on with vehicles being much cleaner now in general than when it began in the '90s.

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Nothing quite as permanent as a "temporary" government program....

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Happy 10-03-2021 01:54 AM

Coming soon….

https://youtu.be/GOajGlRxlEQ

aheckenast 10-03-2021 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EODguy (Post 1208653)
Nothing quite as permanent as a "temporary" government program....

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It's been shut down since about 5-6 years ago. I feel for you guys down in the states..

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aheckenast 10-03-2021 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy (Post 1210524)

I highly recommend it [emoji106]
Sounds a lot better with 4.4i mufflers vs 3.0i ones btw.

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Happy 10-03-2021 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aheckenast (Post 1210526)
I highly recommend it![emoji106]


Their already in the mail!!

Thanks again, for the purchasing tip. [emoji119][emoji119]

aheckenast 10-03-2021 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy (Post 1210527)
Their already in the mail!!

Thanks again, for the purchasing tip. [emoji119][emoji119]

Good luck with the install, it's not that fun. If you are time limited I would suggest getting new manifold mounting hardware (studs/nuts to the cyl head).

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Happy 10-03-2021 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aheckenast (Post 1210528)
Good luck with the install, it's not that fun. If you are time limited I would suggest getting new manifold mounting hardware (studs/nuts to the cyl head).


Yeah, I was thinking about replacing the old hardware. It’s gone through so many heat cycles.

e39_touring 10-04-2021 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aheckenast (Post 1208466)
The catless exhaust smell is noticeable at times but way less than I expected.

Overall I am very pleased. Highly recommend these if you don't mind going catless on the 3.0i.

Good job on the install! I highly recommend flashing the eu2 tune (factory euro catless tune). The exhaust smell will go down 80-90%, no cel, and you'll see a little better mileage. Without the rear o2's, the x is running pig rich as the ecm is constantly testing catalytic efficiency.

Happy 10-05-2021 02:08 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Well.. Well.. Well… Lookie hea.. Lookie hea..!

What a surprise today when the door bell rang! :wow: :D

Attachment 81027

aheckenast 10-05-2021 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e39_touring (Post 1210625)
Good job on the install! I highly recommend flashing the eu2 tune (factory euro catless tune). The exhaust smell will go down 80-90%, no cel, and you'll see a little better mileage. Without the rear o2's, the x is running pig rich as the ecm is constantly testing catalytic efficiency.

Did you do it yourself? I've been holding off as this is my daily while my project car is apart, don't want to accidentally brick the dme.

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e39_touring 10-05-2021 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aheckenast (Post 1210728)
Did you do it yourself? I've been holding off as this is my daily while my project car is apart, don't want to accidentally brick the dme.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Yes, it's very easy if you're somewhat familiar with inpa/winkfp, etc. It's been a while, but if you have questions, post them up here, and I can walk you through it. There are lots of videos online as the process is the same for the e46, and a lot of those guys run the eu2 tune. The only difference is you have to select the calibration suitable to the euro version of your x.

aheckenast 10-05-2021 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e39_touring (Post 1210737)
Yes, it's very easy if you're somewhat familiar with inpa/winkfp, etc. It's been a while, but if you have questions, post them up here, and I can walk you through it. There are lots of videos online as the process is the same for the e46, and a lot of those guys run the eu2 tune. The only difference is you have to select the calibration suitable to the euro version of your x.

I have those two programs loaded on an old windows xp laptop but am not at all familiar with them at all. I did awhile back test connect to my e53 no issues.

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e39_touring 10-05-2021 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aheckenast (Post 1210739)
I have those two programs loaded on an old windows xp laptop but am not at all familiar with them at all. I did awhile back test connect to my e53 no issues.

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That's the hard part - getting the communications to work right. Since you've tackled that, you're ahead of the game. Flashing takes like 10 minutes.

crystalworks 10-05-2021 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy (Post 1210724)
Well.. Well.. Well… Lookie hea.. Lookie hea..!

What a surprise today when the door bell rang! :wow: :D

Attachment 81027

That's going to be awesome. You keep this up and you ARE going to end up with the LeMans X5 sound/feel. :thumbup:

Is it going to require additional tuning? I think you said you are using a DME that is a one-off type thing.

Happy 10-05-2021 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalworks (Post 1210742)
That's going to be awesome.


It was a dream Crystal.. LoL… It was supposed to stay a dream. :rant: Do you know how much concrete I would have in my back yard right now!! :explode:

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalworks (Post 1210742)
You keep this up and you ARE going to end up with the LeMans X5 sound/feel. :thumbup:

:bustingup Yeah riiight! ZHP Cams, and Big Brakes, and it’s pretty much there. Sheesh! :shakehead:

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalworks (Post 1210742)
Is it going to require additional tuning? I think you said you are using a DME that is a one-off type thing.

So I have 3 types of electronics in my E53. DME, E85 ECM, and a secondary injection ECM. The BMW Doctor states that, the collectors as he calls them, provide more power based on the rearrangement of the exhaust gas discharge dynamics.

It makes sense, make more power by making things more efficient. My 2 Stroke with a carb, made waaay more power with a chamber that was extremely tuned!

So, where I luck out is, my E85 ECM is constantly tuning in real-time. It’s a byproduct of the system, because it’s an actual Flex-Fuel system. So if there is E10, E50, E85, E100, etc. it has to tune accordingly. So far the DME has been consistent at throwing timing at the system.

So, if the head is running cooler with the ethanol, and the exhaust discharge is creating a cooler environment as well with less heat and pressure, then one can assume the DME will throw more timing. Where the end is at, is anyones guess.

One thing I can say is, my boost should be greatly affected in a positive way. My blower will no longer be blowing directly into the cats. This should allow it to produce boost more quickly and efficiently, and may even allow the pressure to rise a minuscule amount. I’ve seen it hit 11lbs before. If it were to get closer to 12lbs, that would be in my opinion the most boost acceptable on stock internals. It’s right there!

We will see soon! :bmw:

PalmSpringsE534.6 10-06-2021 10:42 AM

Lord I wish I could do this but alas in CA I wouldn't pass emissions anymore. Now any ECU tuning will make it impossible to pass a smog...much less a cat delete. I will have to live vicariously through you! :)

Happy 01-26-2022 01:53 AM

OH BOY! :wow:

Happy 01-27-2022 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aheckenast (Post 1210526)
I highly recommend it [emoji106]


Thank you for helping me gain access to these headers! They are fantastic! I was so close to giving up on trying to order them! :2thumbs:

https://vimeo.com/670448812

crystalworks 01-27-2022 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy (Post 1216826)
Thank you for helping me gain access to these headers! They are fantastic! I was so close to giving up on trying to order them! :2thumbs:

:thumbup:

You had that monster dyno'd yet? :D

Happy 01-27-2022 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalworks (Post 1216851)
:thumbup:



You had that monster dyno'd yet? :D


No, but I am a bit curious now myself.

I thought that maybe they would just make it sound a bit more aggressive, but that was not the case. They totally changed the power output. More low end, which totally caught me by surprise, and the top end is kind of intimidating, being 2 ton and all.

Happy 01-27-2022 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalworks (Post 1210742)
You keep this up and you ARE going to end up with the LeMans X5 sound/feel. :thumbup:


The revs in that quick vid, were only to 3800 rpm.

I don’t know about feeling anything thing like the P75 as far as power output (only half the engine, LoL).

But the sound is bonkers!

nick325xit 5spd 01-27-2022 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy (Post 1216853)
No, but I am a bit curious now myself.

I thought that maybe they would just make it sound a bit more aggressive, but that was not the case. They totally changed the power output. More low end, which totally caught me by surprise, and the top end is kind of intimidating, being 2 ton and all.

Putting the cats in the manifolds is brutal for power output. The M54 left a lot on the table from the factory.

I'd imagine that a blower would feel that even more.

Happy 01-27-2022 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick325xit 5spd (Post 1216860)
Putting the cats in the manifolds is brutal for power output. The M54 left a lot on the table from the factory.



I'd imagine that a blower would feel that even more.


Yeah they completely changed the power curve. It was a bit of a surprise. The blower is most definitely running more efficiently now, than before.

I was worried, because I have used headers on other applications before, and although top end was better, I had a distaste for the rest of the band. I get caught up in the exhaust note, and forget there is risk to the power output when making changes to an established setup. Not the case here, substantial upgrade to this setup.

Hats off to Dr. Lavr! The product definitely delivered. I got them just in time too! It seems with the conflict in Europe, that they may not be available in the U.S. for at least the moment.

I wish I had got some for the N62 as well. :dunno:

crystalworks 01-27-2022 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy (Post 1216853)
No, but I am a bit curious now myself.

I thought that maybe they would just make it sound a bit more aggressive, but that was not the case. They totally changed the power output. More low end, which totally caught me by surprise, and the top end is kind of intimidating, being 2 ton and all.

I know we're talking a straight 6 here, but it is FI. When I did long tubes on my 2v 4.6 in my Mustang GT it definitely gained low end torque. Not sure about HP in that area, but torque for sure. I cut ~.4 sec (can't remember exact, was a long time ago) in the 1/4 mile after install with an accompanying Diablo tune.

Happy 01-27-2022 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalworks (Post 1216871)
I know we're talking a straight 6 here, but it is FI. When I did long tubes on my 2v 4.6 in my Mustang GT it definitely gained low end torque. Not sure about HP in that area, but torque for sure. I cut ~.4 sec (can't remember exact, was a long time ago) in the 1/4 mile after install with an accompanying Diablo tune.


Yep, I feel it!

I had to learn to drive the thing again when the 8lb flywheel was installed. Looks like the same thing again with the headers. The torque changes were very noticeable. I bet the ethanol has a role in it as well.

It’s been cold, so I haven’t used the meth kit yet. That’s probably going to change the characteristics at the top end as well.

bcredliner 01-28-2022 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy (Post 1216874)
Yep, I feel it!

I had to learn to drive the thing again when the 8lb flywheel was installed. Looks like the same thing again with the headers. The torque changes were very noticeable. I bet the ethanol has a role in it as well.

It’s been cold, so I haven’t used the meth kit yet. That’s probably going to change the characteristics at the top end as well.

A lighter flywheel reduces torque which is very important when trying to get an X5 moving. The engine will rev faster but that doesn't help performance except maybe at close to redline. Even going quicker are high RPMs won't offset loss at low end.

Bdc101 01-28-2022 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcredliner (Post 1216921)
A lighter flywheel reduces torque which is very important when trying to get an X5 moving. The engine will rev faster but that doesn't help performance except maybe at close to redline. Even going quicker are high RPMs won't offset loss at low end.


A lighter flywheel reduces torque? Pray tell how that works.

Fifty150hs 01-28-2022 06:34 PM

It doesn't.

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/im...aily%20driving).

bcredliner 01-29-2022 07:36 PM

Right, it doesn't. Always a good idea to review before posting. Oopsie.

What a lighter flywheel does do is decrease inertia so more torque is necessary to correct the loss of inertia to achieve better times over a a short distance. A lighter flywheel, especially on a heavy vehicle like an X5 will likely increase the amount of time to get from 0-60 feet. However, somewhere less than a quarter mile the vehicle should be faster but not always. The key to improving times over shorter distances using a light flywheel is also adding back torque to offset the lost inertia.

Bdc101 01-30-2022 01:21 AM

What you said is only true in the moment that you are dumping a clutch. Otherwise a lighter flywheel, having less mass and therefore less linear and rotational inertia, will always contribute to faster acceleration.

bcredliner 01-30-2022 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bdc101 (Post 1216985)
What you said is only true in the moment that you are dumping a clutch. Otherwise a lighter flywheel, having less mass and therefore less linear and rotational inertia, will always contribute to faster acceleration.

Yes, that is what I said. It will be faster but the vehicle will travel some measure of distance before it is faster than it was with the stock flywheel.

There are so many variables that go into realizing the benefits of a lighter flywheel it is just not a slam dunk they will be beneficial for all applications. There are also downsides that can contribute to other failures, especially if used on a daily driver. Considering all the options to go faster, and how much contribution a perfect application of a lighter flywheel can make, a lighter flywheel is way way down my list of a cost/benefit value ranking.

Happy 01-30-2022 07:29 PM

Ok let’s put the small talk aside for a bit.

Today is an amazing weather day in Houston! 72 degree ambient temperature, I had the E53 completely warmed up, but not heat soaked.

I activated the meth injection.

I was at a cruising speed of about 46 mph, when I rev matched a downshift into 3rd gear, from 4th. From about 4400, to 6100 rpm, which put me at speed of about 88 mph, it only took 4 1/2 car lengths in total.

2 lengths past the 2 Stangs that were riling me a bit (I was about a 1/2 a car length behind), while they were cruising at about 48-49 mph.

It took 3 1/2 to 4 seconds to top out at nearly 90 mph. That will be the last time I try that.

2 ton takes a noble responsibility to handle. I don’t want to be the idiot, that crashes the 2nd fastest manual E53 (the only one with power to all 4 wheels) in the world.

Take it with a gain of salt. My take will be, “take it easy”.

Just my two cents..

bcredliner 01-31-2022 11:30 AM

What do you mean by only one with power to all four wheels?

Happy 01-31-2022 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcredliner (Post 1217036)
What do you mean by only one with power to all four wheels?


I haven’t found a build other than the X5LM, and mine, with a manual, that has AWD.

Have you found any? I am very curious to know if there are any other builds.

bcredliner 01-31-2022 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy (Post 1217046)
I haven’t found a build other than the X5LM, and mine, with a manual, that has AWD.

Have you found any? I am very curious to know if there are any other builds.

I see. Nope, don't know of one.

Happy 01-31-2022 05:05 PM

I think though, I have reached the limit with the gearbox.

After that 3rd gear pull, I attempted to lazily shift into 4th since there was no need for further acceleration. And the synchros were an issue. I was gently putting into 4th, so no damage. But there was a very light grind, so I just went neutral.

I think that pull spun the box up a bit to hard. I’ve never had grind on any gears on my E53.

So I think it will now require conservative shifting, and being very careful with the redline pulls. I don’t see mildly aggressive shifting below 5000 rpm being an issue, but caution should be used above that.

Those headers really brought the power out. I am still kind of shocked. But at least I learned some limitations, and I know for me personally, there is no reason to be ripping that hard.

nick325xit 5spd 01-31-2022 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy (Post 1217055)
I think though, I have reached the limit with the gearbox.

After that 3rd gear pull, I attempted to lazily shift into 4th since there was no need for further acceleration. And the synchros were an issue. I was gently putting into 4th, so no damage. But there was a very light grind, so I just went neutral.

I think that pull spun the box up a bit to hard. I’ve never had grind on any gears on my E53.

So I think it will now require conservative shifting, and being very careful with the redline pulls. I don’t see mildly aggressive shifting below 5000 rpm being an issue, but caution should be used above that.

Those headers really brought the power out. I am still kind of shocked. But at least I learned some limitations, and I know for me personally, there is no reason to be ripping that hard.

I doubt that you're putting out too much power for a ZF320. BMW shipped them behind some pretty torquey diesels with no issue.

Happy 01-31-2022 05:47 PM

The RMS kit puts 400 hp to the flywheel. That was on 91 pump gas.

Add the headers, E85, with meth injection, I wouldn’t be surprised if it over 450. There is a LOT of torque.

Also, remember the differences between diesel, and non diesel engines. The redline on the diesel is substantially lower, resulting in lower input shaft speeds vs non diesel.

It doesn’t take much to blow a gearbox that is out of synchronization, in a high rpm shifting situation. It’s not so much the applied torque that is the concern, unless it is just stupid high on a gearbox that weak to extreme torque.

I am pretty sure I spun the crap out of the synchros. I will NOT be doing that again!

nick325xit 5spd 01-31-2022 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy (Post 1217057)
The RMS kit puts 400 hp to the flywheel. That was on 91 pump gas.

Add the headers, E85, with meth injection, I wouldn’t be surprised if it over 450. There is a LOT of torque.

Also, remember the differences between diesel, and non diesel engines. The redline on the diesel is substantially lower, resulting in lower input shaft speeds vs non diesel.

It doesn’t take much to blow a gearbox that is out of synchronization, in a high rpm shifting situation. It’s not so much the applied torque that is the concern, unless it is just stupid high on a gearbox that weak to extreme torque.

I am pretty sure I spun the crap out of the synchros. I will NOT be doing that again!

People are running a hell of a lot more than 400 at the crank through the ZF320. Remember that the ZF 5 spd is the go to box for forced induction E36 and E46 M3s because it'll take a lot more abuse that the Getrag 420g.

Happy 01-31-2022 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick325xit 5spd (Post 1217058)
People are running a hell of a lot more than 400 at the crank through the ZF320. Remember that the ZF 5 spd is the go to box for forced induction E36 and E46 M3s because it'll take a lot more abuse that the Getrag 420g.


True, but those applications aren’t over 2 ton, and are not AWD. It takes a bit more to move these tanks. And when you’re pushing them as hard as I did yesterday, I think a bit of caution would be prudent.

Thank you for the heads up on the durability info for the ZF. I’ve always wondered if they were reliable. It just the weight of these vehicles, it makes things work a bit harder, and hotter.

Bdc101 01-31-2022 06:34 PM

With a manual transmission, it doesn't care of the weight of the vehicle. Only the torque produced by the engine matters. The transmission encounters the same stresses when transmitting X lbft of torque, whether the car is 1,000lbs or 8,000lbs. (Except when it comes to overheating, but that is generally not how manual transmissions break.)

Happy 01-31-2022 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bdc101 (Post 1217061)
With a manual transmission, it doesn't care of the weight of the vehicle. Only the torque produced by the engine matters. The transmission encounters the same stresses when transmitting X lbft of torque, whether the car is 1,000lbs or 8,000lbs. (Except when it comes to overheating, but that is generally not how manual transmissions break.)


So if I am understanding you correctly, you are saying the applied stress on a drivetrain to move a vehicle, is the same at 8000lbs, as it is for 1000lbs?

nick325xit 5spd 01-31-2022 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy (Post 1217060)
True, but those applications aren’t over 2 ton, and are not AWD. It takes a bit more to move these tanks. And when you’re pushing them as hard as I did yesterday, I think a bit of caution would be prudent.

Thank you for the heads up on the durability info for the ZF. I’ve always wondered if they were reliable. It just the weight of these vehicles, it makes things work a bit harder, and hotter.

The X5 may be heavier, but I suspect that 600-1,000 at the wheels more than offsets the weight.

As I understand it, the weak point is that you start breaking third gear.

Happy 01-31-2022 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick325xit 5spd (Post 1217064)
The X5 may be heavier, but I suspect that 600-1,000 at the wheels more than offsets the weight.



As I understand it, the weak point is that you start breaking third gear.


Dang.! Their pushing 1000 hp on a stock ZF? Yeah, I would say that would be an offset. You’re definitely generating some heat at the point! LoL..

Yeah that 3rd gear is mean. It pulls! I think my case was the AWD, 2+ ton, and a pretty decent pull that got it a bit flustered.

Bdc101 01-31-2022 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy (Post 1217063)
So if I am understanding you correctly, you are saying the applied stress on a drivetrain to move a vehicle, is the same at 8000lbs, as it is for 1000lbs?


Yep - the stress (force) is provided by the motor. Whether the vehicle accelerates quickly or slowly doesn't matter. The force applied to the drivetrain is the same.


Takeaway: if you took your motor/tranny and swapped it into, say, an E46 chassis, the transmission would be under the same amount of stress, but the vehicle would accelerate a lot faster.

Happy 01-31-2022 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bdc101 (Post 1217066)
Yep - the stress (force) is provided by the motor. Whether the vehicle accelerates quickly or slowly doesn't matter. The force applied to the drivetrain is the same.


Takeaway: if you took your motor/tranny and swapped it into, say, an E46 chassis, the transmission would be under the same amount of stress, but the vehicle would accelerate a lot faster.


But that defies physics. We’re talking about acceleration, let use the same math and apply it to de-acceleration.

At a speed of 100 mph, it will take longer to stop, put more stress, and create more heat to stop a E53 vs a E46 if the exact same braking system was in both vehicles.

So how can the reverse math be any different? If from a stop to 100 mph, how can it NOT induce more stress, and creat more heat than an E46 with the exact same gearbox?

You said yourself, that the E46 would accelerate faster. That means less stress (heat), and fuel (heat) to propel the E46 vs the E53 to 100 mph.

The weight is definitely a factor. Right?

Bdc101 01-31-2022 07:50 PM

You are confusing stress (force per unit area) and work (energy).

You are right that the E53 has more kinetic energy at a given speed than an E46, and requires more work (fuel) to get it up to that speed. But if the motor is the same, then the force on the transmission and drivetrain is the same. It has to be applied longer, but the force is the same.

You are right that there will be more heat added to the transmission, differential, u-joints, etc. But heat is not stress, and those things typically don't get so hot that they break. They absorb a very small portion of the work transmitter through them.

Stress is a force divided by an area (it has the same units as pressure, such as pounds per square inch). Heat is not stress, heat is heat.

Think of it this way: let's say you tie a rope to your X5, which weighs 4,600 lbs, and try to pull it. Let's say you can pull with a force of 100 lbs. You pull until your car is traveling at 10 mph. You are completely exhausted, but the rope has experienced no more than 100 lbs of force.

Now tie the rope to your neighbor's sweet Lotus Elise, which weighs 1,980lbs. You pull on it with a force of 100 lbs. The Lotus accelerates to 10 mph a lot faster, and you are not very worn out. But the rope never experiences more than 100 lbs of force. The transmission is the rope. It is exactly the same.

nick325xit 5spd 01-31-2022 07:56 PM

More to the point, a totally different synchro from the one that the pull was done in is not going to experience wear.

I'd bet that this was an adrenaline missed shift. I've been there. Also, once the fun is over, you're out of rhythm a little bit.

Edit: And by "missed," I don't mean wrong gear. I just mean clutch pedal / shifter interplay not entirely in sync. With the longish travel of both the shifter and the clutch pedal, it's easy to do.

Happy 01-31-2022 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick325xit 5spd (Post 1217070)
More to the point, a totally different synchro from the one that the pull was done in is not going to experience wear.

I'd bet that this was an adrenaline missed shift. I've been there. Also, once the fun is over, you're out of rhythm a little bit.

Edit: And by "missed," I don't mean wrong gear. I just mean clutch pedal / shifter interplay not entirely in sync. With the longish travel of both the shifter and the clutch pedal, it's easy to do.


No I don’t believe there is damage, I very lightly attempted to put it into 4th, and come down in speed. There was a very light audible. It shifted fine thereafter.

I wasn’t trying to hit 4th. I put the clutch in held it for a few, went to neutral, and then made the attempt at 4th. I was a bit surprised with that particular pull though.

I have a DSSR, a short shifter, and 8lb flywheel with a Kevlar clutch, the shifting is light, tight and effortless. It just seemed like she wasn’t thrilled with being pushed quite that hard.

Happy 01-31-2022 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bdc101 (Post 1217069)
You are confusing stress (force per unit area) and work (energy).

You are right that the E53 has more kinetic energy at a given speed than an E46, and requires more work (fuel) to get it up to that speed. But if the motor is the same, then the force on the transmission and drivetrain is the same. It has to be applied longer, but the force is the same.

You are right that there will be more heat added to the transmission, differential, u-joints, etc. But heat is not stress, and those things typically don't get so hot that they break. They absorb a very small portion of the work transmitter through them.

Stress is a force divided by an area (it has the same units as pressure, such as pounds per square inch). Heat is not stress, heat is heat.

Think of it this way: let's say you tie a rope to your X5, which weighs 4,600 lbs, and try to pull it. Let's say you can pull with a force of 100 lbs. You pull until your car is traveling at 10 mph. You are completely exhausted, but the rope has experienced no more than 100 lbs of force.

Now tie the rope to your neighbor's sweet Lotus Elise, which weighs 1,980lbs. You pull on it with a force of 100 lbs. The Lotus accelerates to 10 mph a lot faster, and you are not very worn out. But the rope never experiences more than 100 lbs of force. The transmission is the rope. It is exactly the same.


But if I (human drivetrain LoL..)am completely exhausted that means, I am experiencing more stress. The power still has to flow from the muscles to the limbs, etc.

The rope is static, the gearbox is not. So you have torque + weight affecting all of the rotational mass.

Bdc101 01-31-2022 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy (Post 1217072)
But if I (human drivetrain LoL..)am completely exhausted that means, I am experiencing more stress. The power still has to flow from the muscles to the limbs, etc.

The rope is static, the gearbox is not. So you have torque + weight affecting all of the rotational mass.


Like I said, you are the engine in this scenario, and the rope is the transmission. The engine does more work (i.e. uses more fuel) but the transmission does not see any more stress.

The last statement you made is not true. Think of it this way, let's say Happy's engine makes 300 lbft of peak torque. If you took your tranny off the car, shifted it to third gear, then took a pipe wrench and twisted the input shaft with a torque of 300 lbft and held the output shaft so that it could not move, the transmission would be experiencing the same stress as it is in your third gear pull. (There is a very minor amount of heat transferred into the transmission that I am ignoring, because your transmission doesn't care about it in the slightest.)

bcredliner 01-31-2022 09:30 PM

The greater the mass the more inertia it takes to get it to move. If a 2500 lb. vehicle will move with 100 lbs of force then a 5000lb vehicle will take 200 lbs of force to move it. Also, a transmission has gears it is not like a rope.

Synchros most often fail because clutch is out of adjustment. If you are still hearing the grinding I would adjust the clutch sooner than later. If it is only in one gear it is time to change that one out before you have much more expensive damage. I would think that at 46mph I would think you would want to gear down to second.

Happy 01-31-2022 09:53 PM

E53 M54 Exhaust Headers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bdc101 (Post 1217073)
The last statement you made is not true.


I am going to respectfully disagree.

Me = 4586(1+0.04+0.0025*10^2) E53

Me = 3241(1+0.04+0.0025*10^2) E46

Me =5916 E53

Me = 4180 E46

Happy 01-31-2022 10:33 PM

E53 M54 Exhaust Headers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bcredliner (Post 1217074)
Synchros most often fail because clutch is out of adjustment. If you are still hearing the grinding I would adjust the clutch sooner than later. If it is only in one gear it is time to change that one out before you have much more expensive damage. I would think that at 46mph I would think you would want to gear down to second.


I think the synchros just spun up a bit. A double clutch may have been the remedy. This is my daily driver, so it just lets me know not to push too hard. I seldom run her up over 6000 rpm anyway, so it shouldn’t be an issue. I just don’t want to deal with a blown gearbox this far in.

The manual E53 has a short ratio box, 3rd is the gear for a downshift at that speed. It was a good one too! It caught me by surprise, the thing just hooked, and ripped, I was at 90 quick! It’s unnecessary for me to operate the X5 in this manner anyhow.

1st tops out at about 25
2nd at about 50
3rd about 90
4th about 115
5th 135

And you know it has 4.10’s

Bdc101 02-01-2022 01:28 AM

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nick325xit 5spd 02-01-2022 10:49 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by bcredliner (Post 1217074)
The greater the mass the more inertia it takes to get it to move. If a 2500 lb. vehicle will move with 100 lbs of force then a 5000lb vehicle will take 200 lbs of force to move it. Also, a transmission has gears it is not like a rope.

Synchros most often fail because clutch is out of adjustment. If you are still hearing the grinding I would adjust the clutch sooner than later. If it is only in one gear it is time to change that one out before you have much more expensive damage. I would think that at 46mph I would think you would want to gear down to second.

X5 gearing is a little different than you would expect.

Compared to a more typical manual gear spacing, it's kind of like:
0.75
1.5
2
3
4
5

People complain about it, and it requires a little bit of shift cadence adjustment, but once you get used to it, you end up with a vehicle that moves in a way that you have no right to expect out of such a dinky motor. And that's setting aside what Happy has done.

Edit: Amusingly, 1/2/3 in the X5 are very similar to what I'm running in the E30 M3 if I had the rev limiter set at 6,500. With the rev limiter set to 8,900, though, it's a slightly different experience.

bcredliner 02-01-2022 01:40 PM

Synchronizers don't fix themselves. If the clutch is working properly once the trans grinds going from one gear to another it will continue to do so.
It doesn't go away. If the grinding is gone the clutch wasn't depressed enough when the shift took place. If it grinds in every gear it is likely the problem is the clutch.

Happy 02-01-2022 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick325xit 5spd (Post 1217099)
X5 gearing is a little different than you would expect.



People complain about it, and it requires a little bit of shift cadence adjustment, but once you get used to it, you end up with a vehicle that moves in a way that you have no right to expect out of such a dinky motor. And that's setting aside what Happy has done.



Edit: Amusingly, 1/2/3 in the X5 are very similar to what I'm running in the E30 M3 if I had the rev limiter set at 6,500. With the rev limiter set to 8,900, though, it's a slightly different experience.


Yeah some do complain about it. I think the gearing is awesome! You are completely correct, it allows the beast to move!

So in other words Nick, that E30 pulls hard AF! LoL..!

Happy 02-01-2022 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcredliner (Post 1217103)
Synchronizers don't fix themselves. If the clutch is working properly once the trans grinds going from one gear to another it will continue to do so.
It doesn't go away. If the grinding is gone the clutch wasn't depressed enough when the shift took place. If it grinds in every gear it is likely the problem is the clutch.


Yeah could’ve been that I didn’t have the pedal all the way.

Its funny because I have never experienced a grind before, and I purposely shifted extremely conservative. Like Nick said, maybe it was because I was a bit shook at the time.

s14realm3 04-02-2022 03:25 PM

Can someone post a link for that Doctor LAVR 3.0L catless headers? I don't think Ebay sells them anymore. thanks

Happy 04-02-2022 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s14realm3 (Post 1219255)
Can someone post a link for that Doctor LAVR 3.0L catless headers? I don't think Ebay sells them anymore. thanks


I don’t think commerce is allowed between U.S. and Russia currently. Which sucks because, The BMW Doctor and his crew seemed pretty cool, plus they offer high quality products.

aheckenast 04-04-2022 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy (Post 1216826)
Thank you for helping me gain access to these headers! They are fantastic! I was so close to giving up on trying to order them! :2thumbs:

https://vimeo.com/670448812

Glad to help. I really enjoy opening up mine, really woke it up. Was worth the exhaust stink!

Sent from my SM-G991W using Tapatalk

Happy 04-04-2022 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aheckenast (Post 1219294)
Glad to help. I really enjoy opening up mine, really woke it up. Was worth the exhaust stink!


Yeah! They really make some pretty decent gains! I’m burning E85, so mine has a unique stink. LoL..

e39_touring 04-05-2022 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aheckenast (Post 1219294)
Glad to help. I really enjoy opening up mine, really woke it up. Was worth the exhaust stink!

Sent from my SM-G991W using Tapatalk

Make sure you run the EU2 tune or an equivalent that remaps the car for catless operation, and it will really cut down on that stink. If you just remove the cats without tuning, the car will run pig rich (constant catalytic efficiency testing) all the time and your MPG's will suffer, too.

aheckenast 04-13-2022 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e39_touring (Post 1219369)
Make sure you run the EU2 tune or an equivalent that remaps the car for catless operation, and it will really cut down on that stink. If you just remove the cats without tuning, the car will run pig rich (constant catalytic efficiency testing) all the time and your MPG's will suffer, too.

Would love to. Haven't gotten around to it yet!

Sent from my SM-G991W using Tapatalk


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