Rear tire lean at the top
 

I just finished out updating the front suspension and rear shocks on my son's 2001 3.0. The alignment specialist pointed out to me that the rear tires were leaning in. He suggested possible weak springs in the back. He thought that the bushings looked good.

The truck has about 134K on it. Are the springs sagging or is likely that it's some other part of the suspension?

Interestingly enough, we passed another e53 on the way home and the tires on it had the same lean going on.

did the alignment specialist reference the alignment specs for the E53? they are designed to have significant rear camber.

that said, at 134k, all original bushings and balljoints are trash.

Springs will not wear and cause excess camber.

Spec on e53 is up to 2.1 or 2.2° negative camber. It looks broken but is normal.

The ball joints wear out and will cause more than normal camber but more importantly, toe-out condition that will chew up tires very quickly.

You can't tell when under spring tension but you can usually detect some motion in the joint directly behind the hub with a prybar. If it moves any amount it's shot.

Rear Left is -2.5*
Rear Right is -2.4*

Based on the comments, probably not springs. Likely ball joints, bushings and upper control arms?

It's almost always the outer ball joint of the "wishbone". Then the "Rose" joint or lower ball joint.

I did the replacement on my e53 last year was not terribly difficult job but requires a proper ball joint tool.

+1^

How to make a big heavy SAV (SUV in common terms) handle.
Lots of geometry engineering in the suspension parts front and rear
Lots of moveable end joints on the control arms
Big fat lower ball joint to control acceleration and deexcelleration in the rear with anti squat characteristics
Add in rubber bits to control NVH coming into the cabin space

All of these wear parts have a life to them. DEpending on the driver(s), road conditions and weight of the right foot, all the suspension arms, joints, and links are TOAST at 100 to 150k on the six bangers. On the V8 models a whole lot less.
Take at look at any of the BMW suppliers (FCPeuro, ECStuning, etc) see their complete suspension kits and plan on a long weekend of wrenching.
There are eccentric adjustments on the rear suspension lower arms and the control arms to pull in most issues after replacement.

If you want to get great tire life with all kinds of impact on handling have any idiot with an alignment rack to set the camber as close to zero as possible

On the rear toe, getting on the low side of the toe in is a best practice as that is where most of the rear tire wear occurs.
There are literally hundreds of posts in the DIY section at the top of the form on proper alignment techniques and suspension rebuilds.

It is just a bunch of bolts. The results will amaze you.

Tip of the week: hose down the parts with your choice of WD-40 product 2 days before you start.

For clarification. Had he aligned it or was this a visual observation?

Sounds like front was aligned and the shop pointed out the back needs a looking at.


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It was measured on an alignment rack. The truck is from Michigan and has some rust on the hardware. Guy was hesitant to mess with it and I didn't want it turning into a bigger mess. The tires aren't wearing unevenly, so I agreed to having him align the front and leave the rear alone.

About 2 years ago I replaced the front subframe with a used part. Over the last couple of weeks, I changed out the entire front suspension - new struts, strut mounts, control arms (upper and lower), stabilizer bar end links and the inner and outer tie rods. The back just got new shocks and stabilzer bar end links.

I did a rough alignment using the string method and took it in to have it checked. The parts are now on order for the bac

Good move

Mine lasted about two years with worn ball joints and appreciable neg camber until one day the rear tires wore through the steel belts within two weeks. You won't notice when that transition happens so it is smarter to fix before it destroys your tires.

Generally speaking, when the front needs rebuilding so does the back and that is often around 100,000 miles.

The rear could be within specs and still have more wear on the inside of the tires than the outside.

Good call to order the parts for the rear.

Mine made it to 180,000 before the rear or front needed parts. Clearly the PO drove mostly highway miles.

The spec + inner wear is because it moves out of spec under load. The wheels toe out during braking causing very fast inside edge wear.

(Two weeks through the steel belts for me; the "redneck wear bars")


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The alignment specs take into account normal load.

Yes but not how much it steers under load. (because of course it's not supposed to)


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I think I agree but am not sure what you mean by how much it steers.

Here's an easy read about alignment: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...e.jsp?techid=4

When the ball joint wears it's not obvious under load but the suspension shifts and effectively "steers" while you brake.

In the case of e53, I've measured over 1° of toe out steering when the wishbone ball joint wears.

The ball that wears it's behind the hub and its job is to hold the wheel pointing forward and not let the wheel steer left: right.

Since the centerline of the tire/wheel is outbound of the centerline of the hub, the torque applied is toe out during braking, toe in during acceleration, but the effect from braking is clearly more significant since the inner edge of the tires always get shredded

In the case of worn suspension, I agree. In the case of a good suspension a proper alignment accommodates for normal braking and turning. The range of the specs will also provide for fairly aggressive driving styles.

:iagree:

It seems most alignment guys, unless they are familiar with BMWs, don't understand what is normal BMW rear camber. Ball joints are the first thing I would replace.

Replace it all and be happy as one part replacement will always magnify the slop that exists in the upper arms.

Normal wear out of service for the rear suspensions for V8's is 60K. The lack of torque on the I-6 bangers allows much longer in service specs.

As Andrew mentioned, the rear ball joint wear out is tough to determine. If you pull them (actually it is push them) out you will see they are toast long before the replacement occurred.

My own 4.8is rear arms were toast at 62K. Front torque arms at 42K. Too many hard stomps followed up with heavy braking. Yes, the V8 tires wear out real fast as well... I think X5 V8's actually eat tires. :)

I believe Andrew is on to something regarding the rear suspension part wear. On hard acceleration they toe in VS heavy braking the push is to toe out. This action pounds the upper arms in the rear while eating alive the front ones. Wonder what the engineers found leveraging strain gauges during development? The results gave us the same parts for V8 and I-6 in the rear....

Using my iPhone without a case, the angle is 2 degrees on my rear wheels. If specs are 2.1-2.2, it's close to being toast. Not so sure on accuracy, but a phone angle gauge can work for a quick check.

The camber angle isn't a huge problem. It's why. If the camber angle is an extra 1/2° due to the ball joint wear, it means the wheels are steering toe out during braking and that will shred tires.

I've got a generic press kits wheel bearings and another for ball joint replacement. Are these likely to work or will I need special BMW presses. The youtube videos all seem to use BMW specific tools.

(I have tried searching here, but it's pretty buggy)

Special press needed. Sometimes even the one designed for the job needs a little more filling down to fit. Also the bearings often aren't up to task and will self destruct.

BMW specific tool needed for rear lower ball joint... :rolleyes:

Best way to search Xoutpost is to use Google along with the site code, i.e. use a search term like: -

site:xoutpost.com e53 replace rear ball joint BMW tool

Works a treat....

It turns out it's more than worn bushings and ball joints. I had previously had an "opportunity" to replace the front subframe, it looks like now I get to do the same for the rear subframe.

It looks good on the surface, but you can easily push it with a finger and see the upper bushing brackets flex where corroded.

I'm waiting on a replacement from LKQ. I do have a quick question on the rear subframe bushings. Can I use a generic tool since it's going to be out of the car? Or should I 'invest' in another tool?

You should be able to use a generic tool off the car. Heat up the subframe enough to melt the outer layer of rubber on the bushing, and they'll come out.

That said, the special tool will make this easier, faster, and cleaner.

Bummer on the subframe. Hmmm I never had a chance to replace my bushings before I replaced my car with e70.

If the bushing/tool aren't compatible I have an unused e53 bushing tool.

And I have a "used once" tool - which is about what most buyers will end up with! :rofl:

So sorry to read the bad news....

I was pleased to see my new rear ball joint tool would work on both my son's e53 and my e70. I haven't looked into the subframe tool yet.

I rented a generic tool from an auto parts store, no go. I bought a kit. Still was a pain to get done but it worked. Thus far I have a used once tool.