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-   -   4.8iS Doesn't See a DME! (https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/x5-e53-forum/114299-4-8is-doesnt-see-dme.html)

MBellRacing 03-30-2022 12:22 PM

4.8iS Doesn't See a DME!
 
Okay, some of the original issues are chronicled in another post, but long story short, I was having intermittent P1515 codes (some CAN error) and P2272/P0159 (O2 sensor issues). I then started getting a ton of misfires on the opposite bank and while the car should be open loop. I decided to send out my DME to ECU Pro. They said they didn't see the CAN error or the O2 sensor issues, but did get the misfires when plugged into their test X5. They also said the board, itself, looks fine but some of the pins were corroded. They asked if I wanted to clone to a new DME and I said yes.



A couple weeks go by (I'm a busy dude this time of year), I install the new DME and the original immobilizer that was shipped out with it. I turn the key... and the 2 month old battery is dead. Cool. Charge it up overnight, get it to 14V, try to start it... and nothing. I plug in my Foxwell scanner and do a quick scan of the modules. The DME pops up for about 1 second then literally disappears from the list. There is NO DME module being seen.



I unplugged the new DME and reinstalled the old one (that should be a clone) and the SAME issue is present. Upon swapping DMEs, I noticed there was some green corrosion on only one of the connectors. I sprayed some plastic-safe contact cleaner into all the connectors (not the DME) and let them sit overnight. Once again, nothing once plugged in. Today, I finally took my battery back to the [the absolute nightmare of a company known as NTB] where I purchased it, just to make sure my issues don't start there. They said the 850 cranking amp battery shows 800 which is within their spec of a "good battery". So more juice isn't the answer! I checked all the fuses in the glove box area and they are all good. This car does not seem to have the fuses and relays by the DME/VVT box, under the hood. Everything else in the car functions, it seems, EXCEPT the DME.


Any ideas? Why would the car run-- if poorly-- but when the DMEs are reinstalled, they don't work? I can always send back my DME to ECU Pro, but that's annoying, and they said my modules worked on their test car. Could it be a wiring thing? Please help!





P.S.
Anybody want a VERY well sorted (except for one VERY minor issue) E53 X5 4.8iS??? It's great when it runs! :rofl: But seriously, just my stupid luck. This was the best car ever in the big snow storm we had in the south, and now it won't start. It did better than my dad's big GMC Denali 2500HD. You know what the Denali does better? Runs. All the time. Starting to regret ever buying another BMW. At least my Audi never left me stranded...

80stech 03-30-2022 12:47 PM

If the pins on the DME are corroded then so is the DME connector. It sounds like you are in over your head on this and it would probably be best to take it to reputable shop. Yes, they are for sure awesome vehicles on winter roads.

aureliusmax 03-30-2022 09:01 PM

Quote:


Any ideas? Why would the car run-- if poorly-- but when the DMEs are reinstalled, they don't work? I can always send back my DME to ECU Pro, but that's annoying, and they said my modules worked on their test car. Could it be a wiring thing? Please help!
Canbus issues need to be sorted out with an oscilloscope and using process of elimination, disconnecting or determining other modules on the network or wiring issues that are causing faults. Could even be an issue where the connector sockets have been pushed with a technician's test leads, and when re installed the socket's don't provide enough clamping force to make an electrical connection to the pins in the DME.
The Me 9.2.2 control to these engine's also can develop issues over time, and when changing parts/servicing and there's some special tools and procedures required to get the vanos system recalibrated like deleting the ram_backup - which will just cause random misfires and the engine will never run right.
Third there's also common wear points involved with the intake valve lift system which when worn out will cause uneven cylinder filling / leakages leading to random misfires.

Quote:

Anybody want a VERY well sorted (except for one VERY minor issue) E53 X5 4.8iS??? It's great when it runs! :rofl: But seriously, just my stupid luck. This was the best car ever in the big snow storm we had in the south, and now it won't start. It did better than
I would love to take that off your hands and then sell it back to you once it's been sorted - or if you're feeling up to it, drive it up to Canada, park it in my storage lot and I can do some repairs. The 4.8iS is an extremely quirky engine with a lot of potential compounding issues and requires some skill and special tools to sort it out. I actually see you have listed your location in North Carolina, I'm a big fan of your current state representative :thumbup:

Quote:

my dad's big GMC Denali 2500HD. You know what the Denali does better? Runs. All the time. Starting to regret ever buying another BMW. At least my Audi never left me stranded...
Your dad's denali is probably a gas engine, but just wait long enough for all the high-trim quirks and features to go out. If it's a diesel engine, those isuzu built V8's are extremely unreliable and have a number of design flaws not to mention to many wear points and difficult to service due to being shoe-horned inside the chassis. Compare the labor hours to replace a turbo on that vs a Ram 2500 with a inline 6 ;) My daily is a Ram 3500 - the newer models with the 4/5 gen chassis have a lot more plastic parts that can wear/tear as well as a lot of quirks and features that can go wrong also but that's all been fixed since I'm a technician. Your audi didn't leave you stranded because it's probably not old enough for all these quirks and features to break down. You should have known what you were getting into when you bought a 15 year old top of the range BMW. :dunno:

MBellRacing 03-31-2022 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80stech (Post 1219158)
If the pins on the DME are corroded then so is the DME connector. It sounds like you are in over your head on this and it would probably be best to take it to reputable shop. Yes, they are for sure awesome vehicles on winter roads.


Yeah, this is probably the next step. I'd take it to the dealer, but even they couldn't sort out my original code. They said "it doesn't make sense". Yeah, thanks.


Quote:

Canbus issues need to be sorted out with an oscilloscope and using process of elimination, disconnecting or determining other modules on the network or wiring issues that are causing faults. Could even be an issue where the connector sockets have been pushed with a technician's test leads, and when re installed the socket's don't provide enough clamping force to make an electrical connection to the pins in the DME.
The Me 9.2.2 control to these engine's also can develop issues over time, and when changing parts/servicing and there's some special tools and procedures required to get the vanos system recalibrated like deleting the ram_backup - which will just cause random misfires and the engine will never run right.
Third there's also common wear points involved with the intake valve lift system which when worn out will cause uneven cylinder filling / leakages leading to random misfires.
At this point, I'm not even sure it's a CAN issue. The DME is just not there. I did, however, see one pin that seemed to have zero or little tension on it when I was feeding a wire in to knock out some corrosion. I'm going to try and unpin that socket and see if it looks like it could be messed up in some way.


Quote:

I would love to take that off your hands and then sell it back to you once it's been sorted - or if you're feeling up to it, drive it up to Canada, park it in my storage lot and I can do some repairs. The 4.8iS is an extremely quirky engine with a lot of potential compounding issues and requires some skill and special tools to sort it out. I actually see you have listed your location in North Carolina, I'm a big fan of your current state representative
Dude, take it. Please. I'll ship it to you for free. I don't want it back if I'm selling it. I'm seriously missing my old 70s and 80s cars that, even when they broke, could be fixed easily. Engine rebuild? Fine. Give me a dirt parking lot and a few sockets.



Quote:

Your dad's denali is probably a gas engine, but just wait long enough for all the high-trim quirks and features to go out. If it's a diesel engine, those isuzu built V8's are extremely unreliable and have a number of design flaws not to mention to many wear points and difficult to service due to being shoe-horned inside the chassis. Compare the labor hours to replace a turbo on that vs a Ram 2500 with a inline 6 ;) My daily is a Ram 3500 - the newer models with the 4/5 gen chassis have a lot more plastic parts that can wear/tear as well as a lot of quirks and features that can go wrong also but that's all been fixed since I'm a technician. Your audi didn't leave you stranded because it's probably not old enough for all these quirks and features to break down. You should have known what you were getting into when you bought a 15 year old top of the range BMW.
The Denali is the 6.6L diesel. I don't care about the "quirks" of the thing. It just seems to work-- always *knocks on wood since it's now my only functioning vehicle*. It has scary electronics, maybe a questionable architecture (just had to replace the headlight bulbs...) but probably 1/3 of the BMW. And in the end, it has 70,000 miles and not a single thing has ever failed on it. Find me a post 2001 BMW that can say that. The Audi I owned was a 2004 Allroad 4.2. I never had the timing chain issue because I rebuilt it with the uprated guides. The air bags never deflated while I was using it and I replaced the compressor with an Arnott part. It never failed. It had TONS of random issues, but in the end, I never got stuck somewhere and it was surprisingly good in the snow/mud. Regardless, I do know about mid-2000's Audi reliability, as well. Maybe I just got lucky.



I knew what I was getting into with this car. As mentioned, it's not my first mid-2000s German car. I just hate when something ridiculous such as the car literally NOT SEEING A MODULE PLUGGED IN is somehow my fault for buying it. Maybe, just maybe, this was just one of many engineering oversights or an over-complication. This is an issue that I tried to fix as a dealer would have, by replacing the module. It just sucks that I purchased this turd knowing all the usual issues the N62 cars have, having gone through most of those, then finding some illogical unicorn of a problem that I can't fix on my daily driver.



Back on point: anybody know where I'd even be able to purchase a new plug for the DME if it has broken? The wiring looks very different between the N62 car and the rest of the E53 lineup.



By the way, here is a video of my Foxwell scanning the modules. It's long, but you can skip through and watch the DME show up, then go missing:

https://vimeo.com/694438503


This is the plug that seems to have a funky socket:


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...6bed9b0f_z.jpgSupid BMW Plug by Matt Bell, on Flickr

nick325xit 5spd 03-31-2022 01:42 PM

I've noticed that with the engine off, even with a charger connected, that my E90 will frequently fail to communicate with a lot of modules.

Is it practical to hook up another running car with a set of really good (2 gauge or better) jumper cables and re-run the tests? The kinds of power supplies that, say, a dealer would have are unlikely to exist in a residential context. No guarantees, but this is a cheap and easy thing to try.

MBellRacing 03-31-2022 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick325xit 5spd (Post 1219184)
I've noticed that with the engine off, even with a charger connected, that my E90 will frequently fail to communicate with a lot of modules.

Is it practical to hook up another running car with a set of really good (2 gauge or better) jumper cables and re-run the tests? The kinds of power supplies that, say, a dealer would have are unlikely to exist in a residential context. No guarantees, but this is a cheap and easy thing to try.


I am unaware of other 4.8iS's that I'd be able to try this on. The ECU Pro guys plugged it in to their test vehicle and it worked fine. My battery was plugged in when I tested this.

aureliusmax 03-31-2022 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBellRacing (Post 1219183)
Yeah, this is probably the next step. I'd take it to the dealer, but even they couldn't sort out my original code. They said "it doesn't make sense". Yeah, thanks.


At this point, I'm not even sure it's a CAN issue. The DME is just not there. I did, however, see one pin that seemed to have zero or little tension on it when I was feeding a wire in to knock out some corrosion. I'm going to try and unpin that socket and see if it looks like it could be messed up in some way.

I used a small diameter needle pin from a test probe to test the compression from each pin as it was removed. if there's a few sockets with not enough drag you should take out the sockets and push the retainer down with a knife blade. The last post in my egs signal disturbed thread I had some photos explaining the process.

There's also some electrical cleaner called deoxit and it reacts with the corrosion to evaporate it into a gas.

nick325xit 5spd 03-31-2022 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBellRacing (Post 1219185)
I am unaware of other 4.8iS's that I'd be able to try this on. The ECU Pro guys plugged it in to their test vehicle and it worked fine. My battery was plugged in when I tested this.

What I'm saying is that the charger you have may not output enough power to run all the car's systems correctly.

Run jumper cables to another car as if you were jump starting it and try to run the diagnostics.

MBellRacing 03-31-2022 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick325xit 5spd (Post 1219190)
What I'm saying is that the charger you have may not output enough power to run all the car's systems correctly.

Run jumper cables to another car as if you were jump starting it and try to run the diagnostics.


Ah, makes more sense. That would be surprising, right? Maybe I'm misunderstanding. It can fire up and crank off its own power but can't diagnose whether or not the DME is there unless plugged in?


Also, maybe I'm just an idiot, or the search feature is terrible on this forum, but can you link to the post you're talking about with images on how to increase the drag on the sockets?



P.S.
Seriously though, I can search for things but it goes to a forum thread but does NOT jump to the page that references what I searched? Is there a way to search individual posts?


P.P.S.
Edit: Figured out how to search for posts. Didn't find anything with "egs signal" in it. Might still be an idiot.

nick325xit 5spd 03-31-2022 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBellRacing (Post 1219191)
Ah, makes more sense. That would be surprising, right? Maybe I'm misunderstanding. It can fire up and crank off its own power but can't diagnose whether or not the DME is there unless plugged in?

I've had issues with diagnostics at lower power. So, it's a cheap and easy check to see if voltage drop is causing your DME not to post.

I wouldn't put high odds on this, but it's worth checking.


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