At the crossroad with the X plus no start issue
 

We are at that point where we are not sure if the X is worth the cost or the inconvenience of keeping it. Just put $4k into it with new valve covers and tune up. It's always had the A/C issue with having to bump the revs to get it to kick in and I just finished with a trifecta of window regulators. It was fairly bulletproof for about 2 weeks. :rolleyes:

Shortly after the valve covers were done, my wife called and said it would not start. No click, no nothing. Went out to it later and it started. A few weeks later, I went out to start it and same thing. Nothing. 15 minutes later it starts? Yesterday the wife calls and said that it did the same thing. Nothing. She gets it started and then it goes into limp mode. Trifecta lights on dash. You know which ones. She gets it home and I pull codes with the Foxell 520 Pro:
277F DME: Crankshaft sensor-engine speed signal
27BC DME Function. Camshaft control, exhaust, bank 2
2820 DME: Variable intake system- plausibility
2821 DME: Variable intake system- temperature warning threshold
27A0 DME: Fan, electronics box

Basically read all last night though the forum for an explanation to no avail. I had recently pulled the DME to replace the fan that had failed, and apparently it has failed again? It was used, but spun freely. Those are ridiculously priced for a new one!:wow: I did take the DME apart to look for any signs of water damage. No apparent signs, but the car does live outside, sadly, so I cannot rule that out.

I love the X, and more importantly, so does my wife. We don't necessarily want to get rid of it, but at the same time, I don't want to leave her in a car that is not 100% reliable. She works at 3 different facilities every day at different times and has up to 50 people waiting for her to start class. Not a position I would want to be in.

Fortunately, we have another vehicle (a Honda, so you know THAT is reliable!) she can drive in the interim, but the indy I use doesn't have us scheduled until 08/02. And they want me to either limp it there or have it towed so they can read the codes.

With all of that, what would YOU do? I appreciate and trust all of you here on the forum. Thanks for your time.:beerchug:

I'm wondering if the vanos were messed up during the valve cover work.

There is an option to "park" (for the lack of a better description) the vanos before doing work on them in the maintenance menu, but who knows if not doing that only causes a 1-in-50 chance of a problem for someone

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Check the battery/charging system connections, especially at the starter itself, jumper point and the grounds. I would concentrate on the no-start and not worry about the codes at this point. There is some kind of power box that the V-8s have so maybe someone can chime in about that.

Just keep it. The new cars of today are crap and will be lucky to see 100k miles. That X5 is from the best era of cars BMW has ever made.

+1 on keeping it and I've heard lots of horror stories about the new cars as well, but for BMW I think the E30 era while the cars were still being made in Germany (and they were still over-compensating for the mistakes made in the 2002/Bavaria era) was the best ;)

I appreciate all of your thoughts on the X.

I too, was wondering if the Vanos may have gotten out of whack. I also read about the intermediate lever controls not syncing correctly? It's a possibility, I suppose. I really trust the indy I use and they only use parts from BMW, so I know I am getting good service and parts. That said, no one is infallible.

Brother, I hear ya about the lack of quality of today's cars. This almost 20 year X looks better inside than most cars that are 10 years old. Especially the leather. And I love the feedback from the car. My daughter drives an F34 XDrive. Does not feel like a bimmer to me. She too, prefers her e46 coupe. That's fun to drive!

The battery is fairly new, but I will still check all of the contact points. I didn't even really think about that. I forget the mantra, "start with the easy stuff".

Thanks again, all. And I will certainly keep you all posted on what we are doing with the X, and what the fix was.

timmyc - I think you should find something else.

I have a wife and kids and they need cars that start and run every time and they can't worry about window regulators breaking, AC not working, leaks into the cabin, brake lines rupturing, broken pano sunroofs, etc. etc.

I think waiting on an Indy is only getting worse. It feels like there are fewer good Indy repair shops and the wait for parts has become tougher..Parts quality has also deteriorated.

I have 4 BMW's all with the 6 cyl M54 B30 engine ( 2 E39, E46 vert, and E53). Mine are pretty reliable for my use, but would not cut it for wife use. My kids drove two of my BMW's as Instacart drivers during COVID and while they handled the extra workload, I always worried about them.

I do think the E53 (an early US-made car) has more build quality and electrical problems than the either the E39 or the E46.

I suggest you sell your V8 E53 and let the wife drive the Honda...

If YOU really want an E53, I would suggest you buy the best 6 cyl E53 you can find from a rust-free state and maintain it as well as you can...I think you might have fewer issues with that car than your V8.

Regardless, if you enjoy driving 20yr old + BMW's, it's a good idea to have a few of them around.

My wife drives a E83 and that is totally different maintenance wise, it has never let her down and way less problems with suspension, way easier on tires, no window reg or door handle issues. almost as good as the Toyota Sienna! ;)

Are your faults active or historical ?
Intermittent faults after a service is done means bring it back to the workshop that performed the work and ask them to determine if their work left terminals not completely connected together and such, as you are going to do, so would have to tow it there and give it back.

Looking at the string of faults likely they are related by being on the same harness or a similarly powered circuit, which is why looking at the electrical diagram to search for commonalities may lead to a clue.

$4k seems too much just to change valve cover seals and a quote 'tune-up' whatever that means, not sure what happened there.
As far as if you wanna keep the car, you likely just totalled the value based on the costs of your service. Don't fall into the sunken cost fallacy trap. Either you become a mechanic like myself and fix everything yourself, because these cars as they age require a lot of skill to maintain and repair CORRECTLY.

Last night just returned from a 1200mile round trip in my 05 X3 m54b30 215k on the clock.
Preformed like a champ [emoji471]!
And in 90 plus degree heat also experienced a 30min deluge!
Burned maybe less than a third quart of oil... I'll check what the reading is for oil this morning end of the trip... impressed with that 5w40 euro Quacker State!
Gunned the X3 a couple of times (open road up to 100mph) smooth....got to check that CSB or guibo tho. Check engine soon light appeared but after a couple of rest stops the light disappeared...never experienced that before...ill connect the scanner before day's end. Even experienced TN mountainous incline and decline [emoji108] .
After a run like that, the brakes will need to be replaced soon.
Finally, took on a small rock from a simi and now have a shatter dime size spot on the windshield. And with no warning while traveling at speed 70+ I ran over a portion of Simi truck tire, no damage to the front but somehow it took out the rear bumper center snap-on cover...I'll take it!
I suspect it will take lots of neglect before I get to the crossroads.

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Effduration: I hear ya. BMW ownership is not for the faint at heart. Especially if you can't work on them yourself. Fortunately for me, I do work on them and have access to my brother in laws lift and professional tools.

The X was our first V8 bimmer. I wasn't looking for one, it found me.;) We too, have always driven the 6 cylinder cars and never had any serious issues. WAY less issues than the 8. Fortunately, the X we bought had the two major failures repaired by the previous owner. VSS and crossover pipe. That was really the only reason I didn't walk away from this X. That and it had everything that I wanted plus the color combo.

We certainly do enjoy the 20+ year old bimmers and still do have a few around.

80'sTech: I showed her a '16 diesel X3 yesterday that was perfect and I got side eyed. :rofl: She loves the X5. :dunno:

Aurelliusmax: Those faults were active after we had gotten in back from the mechanic. I have a feeling that I will get the runaround when I tell them it started after they did the work. Hopefully not, as I really like them and they do the best work in town. And they warranty their work!

Electrical work is where I call in the pro's. I just don't have the knowledge or equipment to solve those issues. As I stated above, I do work on our cars and have since we've been driving. I like doing the work and knowing that it was done right and with the right, quality parts.

The shop replaced the valve covers. Not just the seals. That's why it was so expensive. And they will only use original BMW parts. Cha-ching!

Getty150: I'm not scared to drive the X, I just need it to be reliable for my wife. I suspect a newer X with an N55 is in our future. She is not into the X3. Not sure why? I'd drive one!

And this car has certainly not been neglected. It gets the royal treatment. After all, it is my wife's daily driver!

Thanks again, all! Keep 'em coming!

Not much of an update, but here it is:

My wife is now the proud owner of a '20 i3 REX! :wow:

We talked a bit about her driving habits and needs and she realized that she doesn't ever really need to take her vehicle out of town. After a back and forth of needs versus wants, she found a '16 X5 40e at a place called Certified Benz and Beemer. She has always wanted a hybrid at the very least. I'm totally game for that one! :thumbup: Then the search goes to EV's. i4 and iX. Nice, but not in our price range. i3? Hmmmm.....RWD. Not great for in the snow and we do get it, but our roads are typically cleared quickly and will melt off the next day. Only 4 passengers. Well, it's typically just her in the car, 95% of the time (we are 5 in our immediate family). Not a deal breaker. She forgot all about the 40e and we drove down into the 117 degree heat to take a look. Got an AMAZING deal on a Tera World car. 120ah battery, to boot! Mineral Gray exterior with Dark Truffle seats. It's gorgeous. I'll post a picture later.

So, back to our X. I have been diving it on and off without the faults coming back. It did stall or something one morning after I went out and started it, but I was inside when it stalled out, so I don't know what it sounded like or acted like.:confused: No codes thrown, so I will have to keep driving it until it acts up. And because we want to keep an AWD around for when it does snow, the X stays! :beerchug: Like I said, we both love the car and would have to part with it if it was to be her daily, but now she has the i3 and she adores it.

This is not the end of this saga!

Went out to the X to get it started and it kinda didn't want to start. Like the starter did not want to engage. Instead of the quick turn of the key, I had to hold it for a sec to get it to start. Failing ignition switch? I've read that they seldom fail, but that may be a place to start? I need to check all of the connections first to make sure everything is tight. I am in Arizona, so we don't really deal with corrosion. :dunno:

And we welcomed a new addition to the family! '16 F15 40e. My daughter got back into a BMW after 8 years in a Chevy Equinox, which was a great car for her. So, it looks like we are slowly on track to have an electric fleet of bimmers! :thumbup:

I'll be back!

Battery voltage?
Loose B terminal?

These are the 1st suspects before thinking about the ignition switch.

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Alright. Got the X back from the indy and they had no clue what was going on with the starting issue. Go figure. An issue that will never arise when it is at a mechanic. Not a real surprise, there.

Now for the other issues related to drivability:

VVT. Apparently both are bad because of the bakelight having disintegrated? It does have a rough idle at cold start. Remove and replace; $1500

DISA motor. Guess it doesn't work? $800

Now to address the 4X4 lamp. Steering angle sensor. Replace and calibrate; $1100

Sigh.....

So, I just happened to be down by another mechanic turned friend who has done a ton of work for us in the past on the bimmers. Threw all of this at him and he says, "Why the hell don't you do it? That shit is easy!". I told him exactly why I had taken it to another shop and not him, and he tells me "Good call. No sense in driving the X in limp mode for over an hour for a diagnosis". Like I said, mechanic turned friend. Anyway, I quiz him a bit on the VVT and the recalibration, as well as the SAS. Sounds doable for me with just the Foxwell. Great!

He also tells me to just replace the ignition switch to deal with the intermitent starting. "Super easy", he says. Okay.:rofl:

So, here is what I am looking for. Who has done the VVT? Is it just remove and replace? No "re-learn"?

And the steering angle sensor? I have seen that in the Foxwell menu. Calibrate SAS. Anyone done it and used the Foxwell with success?

I'm fairly certain that I will be ordering parts soon and tackling this one. Especially after the pep talk with Henri.

I'll keep ya posted.

In the maintenance menu on the Foxwell nt-510 there is a (park or whatever) line for removing the vanos and replacing. I haven't done it so I can't say if it's truly necessary but I did dick-up the degrees and it led to a no start situation and then..... I found the above maintenance line in my Foxwell [emoji22] and wondered if that would have prevented the whole deal. [emoji15] [emoji848]

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Thanks for the reply EODguy. I'll poke around in the menu and see what I can find. I do vaguely remember seeing the SAS recalibrate, but haven't ever needed, until now, to look for anything dealing with the vanos. And I'm just going to do the switch. For $60, why not? I went out this morning to move it and it started then died after a minute or so, then no start? My wife went out to move it about 2 hours later and it started right up. :dunno: Really weird.

First things first: You most likely have a ground or power issue. Ignore all other errors until that is solved. Cars generally light up like a christmas tree when there are power issues, so you’ll get all kinds of errors that may or may not be real.

Step one is check all the obvious power connections, starting with the battery terminals, engine ground, starter, etc. Don’t do anything until you’ve checked those.

Thanks for the reply, Nick.

I asked the shop to do that first, then move on to the other issues. It was said that everything is tight and no corrosion, so for now, all I can do is take their word for it until I can get it on the lift and check it myself. I'm talking about the starter mostly.

Today we are working on my daughter's e46 coupe, chasing down a parasitic draw. We already did the HVAC resistor ( I forget the actual name) and are moving on from that. We deal with pack rats here, and I wonder if we have an open circuit somewhere? :dunno: Car was on the charger all night and we will do a drawdown test this morning with a multimeter. Fingers crossed!

Fortunately, the coupe just needed a battery. I threw the ohm meter on it and there was no significant draw. I had misread the receipt from the battery. It was 6 years old and not driven very often. No issues since then and now it up for sale.

The X just got back from another indy that I have used in the past and he too could not find the reason for the intermittent start. I just replaced the ignition switch and it didn't start.:banghead: I'll throw the old switch back in and see what happens. I did some reading about EWS and that does not seem to be what my symptoms are. Nothing happens when I turn the key. Nothing. Then out of the blue it will start. Maybe I'll time the occurrence to see if that helps? IDK, I am taking it back to the shop to see what he can find.

Finally had the A/C compressor changed and transmission mount. Did the guibo while he was there.

He also diagnosed the rough start to the intermediate levers, so he'll deal with that. Hopefully that will solve that. Another interesting discussion we had was about the VVT solenoids. He wasn't getting any codes from them and he tells me that just because the bakelite has a crack in it, does not mean it needs replaced. I trust this guy and am glad I didn't choke down that repair.

Onward......!

It just started! :bustingup :rofl: :wow: :dunno:

imo a 20 year old X5 like mine would only make a good daily driver for a gearhead, but not for my family. My 'truck' is not great on gas, so I can't justify using it to commute. I don't want to put any more unnecessary wear miles on it either. The ride is a little rough (debatable) and the wiring, plastics, electronics, etc are getting old. I cherish my X5 to a degree and really only like to take it out on weekend or late night drives through the twisties. I loath taking it on boring long drives in a straight line or driving it in traffic. I remember seeing an episode of Scotty Kilmer where I think he said he would never buy an older Dodge Viper because the 'wiring is old'. Maybe he said 'old electronics' but I'm almost sure I remember him saying 'old wiring'. Not sure which of his videos it was. Sometimes he makes compilation videos where he talks about a variety of cars. Old wiring never occurred to me. I was an electrician's apprentice for a couple of years and have seen what older wiring looks like in homes and businesses, but never thought much about how wiring in cars might age. When I think of 'old car wiring' I tend to imagine a 1970's British roadster or something.

I too have experienced some 'no start' scenarios. In my case it was always the alternator (needed to replace it twice in my 10 years of ownership) or the battery. A no start happened about 10 months after installing a new alternator and battery. Turns out the battery was too small/weak. Threw the old battery back in and the problem went away. No more problems in the 2 years since. Hope things work out for you.

Thanks for the reply, Squiggy.

Not sure if you read the whole thread, but do you happen to remember if you had any of the same issues? I'll be driving the X this weekend, so I will see if the no start is still popping up. And honestly, that has been the most frustrating thing about it. It is SO random. It can go for weeks and then, boom, nothing. :dunno:

I'll keep the thread alive until I get it figured out.

Quick update here. Went out to start the X and it started then died right away. Let it sit for about 20 minutes and still no start. Started reading some threads here on Xoutpost and decided to try my spare key. Bingo! Okay. Was it a fluke?I'm going to start using this key for a while and see if I have issues.

I'll report back!

Re "today's new cars suck", I picked up a 2021 X1 rental at Toronto Pearson a few weeks ago with 88,000km on it, a bad tire that went "WOBWOBWOBWOBWOBWOB" and it pulled to to the left. Also the Carplay refused to stay connected. Aside from that, it just felt cheap and tinny. I know, it's not a "real BMW" being FWD-biased, but I have had these before and they just don't feel right.

Exchanged it for a new Chrysler 300.

I hear ya! I feel like the trade off for tech versus a solid build and quality interior finishes in todays cars is a bad deal for the consumer.

I had a friend shut the door of our X5 the other day and he commented on how solid the car was. Then he text me later and asked me to keep an eye out for an e53 for himself!

Nice choice on the 300. I really like the look and muscle of many of the Mopar lineup! :thumbup:

Glad to see your key might have been the issue. Sorry for the later reply. I keep notes about any issues I have with my X5 and my notes say every time I have had a no start problem it has been the alternator or the battery. Sometimes the red battery light on the dash will warn me in advance. It will start blinking then eventually stay on, solid red. But there have been no-start instances when that idiot light did not warn me in advance. One time my battery was fully charged but did not have enough cold cranking amps, so I replaced it.