Glow plugs - Which ones
 

I searched and tried a few different ideas. Some proved helpful but do not directly answer my question. That is how can I truly tell if I have an M57N engine in my car.
I found a 15yr old topic about what oil to use, but it did not really identify the answer except that it gave me a link to "RealOEM", which I have used before, but this time I plunged in and entered my last set of letters and numbers. The result as per attached image.
However, because of the build date of the car which is stamped 11/2006 on the plate on the vehicle, I have major problems when using the VIN to purchase parts. Sometimes I get E70 parts that wont fit and other times I get E53 parts that wont fit.

I queried this which was investigated by the local Stealership and their answer was...my vehicle is not only a facelift E53, but also fitted with some E70 parts that will only be found when and if they need replacing. GREAT!
Rumour has it a true M57N has an alloy block, timing chain at the rear (assumed), because the M57 has a cast block and timing chain at the front.
Are these sufficient to identify the engine as one or the other? I cannot trust my VIN anymore, I have been caught out three times on parts by using it, leaving me high and dry while I wait for exchange to the correct part.
The example I will use today, I want to buy six glow plugs, the company asks for the VIN and says these are only 5v he can supply me six @$30 each. I almost bought them, but then remembered something about my car and M57N. They require 12v, so today I search and end up on RealOEM and it says exactly that "Engine...M57N.
Both used the VIN to identify the car and two different results. WTF :wow:


Any help visually identifying this engine will be most greatly and deeply appreciated. I feel the walls closing in on this car. It seems that glow plugs can also cause the exact same symptoms as the water I removed from the transfer case. At $180 to fit a set, it would be worthwhile to do it.

Jeff



https://xoutpost.com/<a href=https:/...Os066RvU_t.jpg

Pretty sure you have the M57N.

The M57 is the early 3.0l I6 diesel, with a cast iron block and exhaust manifold and uses a smaller GT2556V turbo. 135kW (in the E53).

https://shop.peninsulabm.com/cdn/sho...g?v=1619143263

The M57N has a cast iron block with a stainless exhaust manifold and a GT2260V turbocharger. 160kW (in the E53).

https://shop.peninsulabm.com/cdn/sho...g?v=1590107449

The M57N2 has a cast alloy block (but still has the cam-chain at the front). 173kW (in the E70).

https://cdn.izap24.ru/images/prodact...hine-m57n2.jpg

The name M57N and M57N2 aren't the correct names - just commonly used alias' - the actual designation is M57D30TÜ and M57D30TÜ2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M57

Assuming you DO actually have the M57D30TÜ (M57N) then you need the 5v glow plugs and not the 12v ones used in the earlier M57 engines.

The OE glow plugs are Beru but I've used Bosch replacments without any issue.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/392253325028

I changed the glow controller at the same since most often it is the controller at fault and not the actual glow plugs.

https://cdn.pkwteile.de/thumb?id=701...n&ccf=94077849

https://xoutpost.com/1142332-post39.html

Beru GE102 glow plugs and Beru GSE102 module.

The actual manufacturing date of the vehicle as E53 can't be later than 9/2006. That was the last month they were produced and I have one example of that patch.

My thanks to your in depth explanation Wayne, most informative :popcorn: and worth taking note of. Don't mind the emoticon, I was eating brekky at the time LoL.
I am sure you are aware of the plethora of BMW repairers on YT in the UK. It was interesting that you mentioned the control module...they say the opposite for the 5v and advise the the people with 12 volt to change as it has more intricate and delicate circuitry's.
My reading shows glow one and two are working, 3-6 are failed. As you say it could be both and it is worth it to change the lot while it is off.
Something else that does have me baffled, a little off the track...Swirl flaps. I have always been informed that the E53 has never had them fitted, now I read on other forums that they are fitted dependent on which motor variant is installed in the car (Diesel)! Have you heard anything like this?




@Clavurion, I do not know what to tell you, I have a compliance plate fitted and it is stamped 11/2006. I cannot disagree with you, but I can only tell you what is under the bonnet.:dunno:
Maybe it was a parts leftover build LoL

Most likely BMW Australia has their own plates fitted after the factory. Hence the date of import after the actual manufacturing.

On M57N engines there are Euro 3 and Euro 4 variants all the way thru E53 manufacturing. I don't know if Australia was limited to either version. If it's Euro 4, it has swirl flaps, EGR cooler, DPF and throttle valve. Many of those visible by just looking under the hood. Euro 3 version has none of those.

The earlier 12v glow plugs don't use a controller like the 5v glow plugs - they use a simple relay (on-off). If you can see the glow module on the left side of the block under the intake manifold, you have the 5v glow plugs.

https://i.ibb.co/kGqZmD4/glow-controller.jpg

It seems that swirl flaps were only fitted to the M57D30TÜ fitted to the E53 in markets requiring Euro 4 emission specs at the time (I think that is right - Clavurion will know more! ;) ) - i.e. Switzerland and some other Euro markets. Pretty sure that the UK, Australia and NZ markets got the Euro 3 spec cars, with no DPF or swirl flaps - but it's easy to check for them. Use a small inspection mirror to check for the swirl flap actuator rod on the underside of the intake manifold.

https://i.imgur.com/GO3HyWU.jpeg

I doubt you will find them to be fitted but from what you have said about your particular car, I guess it's possible. :rolleyes:

What he said! ;)

Yes, that might be correct re the Plates fitted, I'll look closer to see if anything is a gimme on them :thumbup:


I have had the manifold off just recently, there definitely wasn't any rod for swirl flaps :D and I definitely do not have a DPF or EGR cooler, so I can guess I have Euro 3 then.


Thank you for the interesting and helpful information.


@wpoll, Wayne, I will have a look this week asap to see if the controller box is situated there. I honestly cannot remember seeing it last time. There again, that doesn't mean it is not there, I just wasn't looking for that. I was looking for vacuum hoses and holes. :rofl:

@wpoll The M57N has a cast iron block with a stainless exhaust manifold and a GT2260V turbocharger. 160kW (in the E53).

https://shop.peninsulabm.com/cdn/sho...g?v=1590107449


Well Wayne, this is the motor in my Car. Some very distinct differences in the appearances and layouts that's for sure.


The earlier 12v glow plugs don't use a controller like the 5v glow plugs - they use a simple relay (on-off). If you can see the glow module on the left side of the block under the intake manifold, you have the 5v glow plugs.

https://i.ibb.co/kGqZmD4/glow-controller.jpg


Yes, this is exactly where I found it :thumbup: Boy, you know the duck guts of these diesels down under mate.


So, if these are the same motors and I am guessing this is your cars motor also. Do you know what the part number for the Module is? I have been given two, one matches the OEM parts number when I use my VIN for ID ... 12217801201, the other one they asked me about was this number 12217788327. I can get the part new for around $100 AUD + or - $10 depending on supplier. eBay Plus discount is paying big dividends this time around. :rofl:
The glow plugs are costing $30.21 ea and a new seal kit is about $40. Just the ceramic grease to go, and that is coming from a pushbike shop.


A quick edit, my vacuum tank is mounted at an angle, almost on the inner guard, that wouldn't cause any problems...could it? I see this one is perfectly horizontal :confused:

Hey Spartan - glad you're getting to the bottom of this. ;)

I see lots of sites list both the BMW numbers you quote as being the same thing but I cannot confirm this.

What I can do is check at home tonight - I have the box the new Beru controller came in plus I still have the old Beru controller - so I can check the numbers on both the old and the new.

I can clearly see 5v written on the old Beru glow plugs and I know the new Bosch glow plugs were also 5v - which fits with this engine using a 5v glow system rather than 12v.

Re. the vacuum reservoir for the turbo boost controller - I'm sure the angle won't make any difference to it's operation (unless it has water in it!) but yeah, they are normally level. Check the mount on the wheel arch - I'm betting someone has removed it at some point and re-fitted it incorrectly.

And while you are there, check the vacuum line connections - you would know if it was disconnected but a visual check can't hurt.

https://xoutpost.com/attachments/x5-...sport-hose.jpg

Here's the old parts and the new box...

https://i.ibb.co/fHjzwJC/20231205-183101.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/2yY0DsD/20231205-183248.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/7bCVJYc/20231205-183126.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/Jn2wDH0/20231205-183141.jpg

As you can see, the old controller is BMW # 12217788327 and as Clavurion already mentioned, the new Beru controller is a GSE102. I assume the old one is also a GSE102 but it is not labelled as such.

If you have a probe camera you may be able to read the numbers on your one in-situ. Or if you have younger eyes than mine! :rofl:

W.

Mate, your images are all showing service unavailable. Even some of the earlier pictures are now doing this to, but only the controller related ones.


In words I used on the desert sands..."WTF, I don't see Nothing". :rofl:


The part number from the Real OEM says the other number but then emphasizes the fact it is a 20 pin plug. The ones I look at have two connections, a single and a 12 pin block. :dunno:

The picture problem must be at your end. I'm seeing them normally and I'm exactly at the opposite side of the globe from New Zealand.

Not really following which part number you are referring to?

Try a different internet connection perhaps...? :dunno:

As for the glow controller pin count, the BMW #12217788327 (Beru GSE102) has 12 pins on the larger connector.

BMW #12217788327 was "ended" in 08/2005 and BMW #12217801201 seems to be new part number that supercedes it but as such, it should be a direct replacement.

Internet searchs indicate that the newer BMW #12217801201 also has 12 pins.

https://protuning.com/media/cache/pr...-ac-sl1000.jpg

Where did you see the reference to 20 pins?

They are exactly same parts with just updated part number.

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/par...&q=12217801201

Well Wayne, I don't know about younger eyes, but phone cameras are damn useful. Especially when they are four lenses to do all sort of jiggery pokery :wow:


I finally got a day where I could actually look in without being cooked or drowned. Climate change My Arse! Just ask NASA where the North Pole is now.


Anyways, it is a genuine Beru, vacuum lines covered that number but the top number is 7 801 201 2 the rest on the RHS are the same till the BMW8G4, underneath is 178/06 and lastly 0002151019.


For all intentional purposes it appears the same as yours, apart from the numbers.


Now the 20pin I got from RealOEM, but I may not have selected the correct year, although I always enter the last 7 of my VIN. It showed the glow module and at the end was a triangle with 20 pin marked on it.


So, I am somewhat perplexed by this because I cannot see any reference to pin outs otherwise.



Clavaurion, mate your help is invaluable too :iagree:, it seems the diesel engine owners are in a strange enigma world in here, but thank god the rest of the car is the same :rofl:. You were right about that compliance plate, it was an Australian one that must have been fitted when it arrived here.


If the weather holds this weekend and we do not get hailstones, thunder storms and lightning strikes, (100,000 in the last 36hrs) I will start taking things off.


This ceramic grease, it seems to be a bit of a pain in ass to get hold of. What did you use?


My list of parts are a) seal kit, b) 6 x glow plugs, c) 1 x glow module, and ceramic grease. Anything else I need to add to this?


Much appreciated, Jeff

Makes sense that your '06 has the newer part number - my car was built 02/2005, prior to the 08/2005 part number change.

Re. the ceramic grease, not sure where this is for but if it's the glow plugs, I used a very small amount of nickel anti-seize on the threads only.

Don't forget the gasket for the EGR inlet (from the intercooler outlet pipe) since you need to pull that out when removing the intake manifold. Should be BMW #1617790547 (but check that since your intake might differ from mine!).

https://armandoparts.lv/53320-large_...1617790547.jpg

And maybe a roll of wide painter's masking tape - to cover the intake ports when the manifold is off - you don't want to drop anything in an intake port!!

Oh, and you'll need a deep socket, to remove and install the glow plugs. Standard sockets don't fit.

https://images.thdstatic.com/product...0mm-64_600.jpg

I have deep sockets, are these deeper than the normal over the counter deep type?



Yes, the recommended grease is Ceramic as most other stuff seems to seal and harden. I have read up on the shear tensions etc, so fingers crossed these are still original and have the correct grease LoL.


Bloody raining again, I swear summer is off on holiday, if its not raining it is 38c and humidity is murder.


Think I might get another fuel filter on the off chance it has picked up a load of crap too. It seems to regular that it starts to fail after three kilometers. Back to that starving for fuel, but idles fine thing.


I did read an article on the modern diesel engine and it is not unusual for the glow plugs to cause this as well, my understanding of them is they are on all the time to ensure there is no unburnt fuel like he old days. I have to admit, it does smell quite stinky lately. Maybe there is some truth in this, seeing I have four failed glow plugs.


Onwards, ever onwards. I hate diesel all over me. LoL

Normal deep sockets should work fine. :thumbup:

My factory glow plugs appeared to have zero grease of any sort on them at installation (se image above of factory glow plug), as per the original Beru recommendations. Bosch sometime say the same, other times they say to use anti-seize. :dunno:

Beru has its own grease for glow plugs. I've always used Molykote HSC plus which also enhances the electrical contact as the glow plugs are grounded via body.

When intake manifold is off, besides vacuum hoses I would also recommend to renew the coolant connector (Nr.9) which is prone to leak when it ages.

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_3465

Sound idea my good friend. I am getting tired of taking this sucker apart :yikes:. I have done all the vacuum hoses and the intake seals less than 200km ago, I'll get new seals again, be my luck to tear one on removal anyway. :rofl:
At the moment it is working fine again, but I'll not leave it to chance, it is not like this is a hard job.
It is just our weather is neither one or the other here right now. 20c and showers or 32c and showers...then the humidity comes when the showers stop and it has been rated at 94%...that knocks the stuffing out of me.
65 next month and I said I would stop doing this crap...LoL The only person I trust is me and that's pretty iffy at times.


I will say working on the BMW is far easier than I expected, especially when I compare it to my previous cars. Australian designed and built Ford SUV of the same year, in petrol and a Mitsubishi Verada GTV 3.5 ltr. Even the Wife's Merc W203 C Class is a doddle to work on.


I may take a week of three hour sessions instead of one day, but it is thorough work and everything is spotlessly clean in there. Wish my back was the same but thirty years of infantry and recon work in the Army will do that to you as well.


Thanks again for the heads up, better go and find a part now,
Jeff

I have not started yet, still waiting on parts to arrive..I guess the Xmas parcel rush this year is big and Aus Post decided to cut down deliveries to every other day. We are not sure which every other day, but that was their Xmas present to the public.


So, having said all that I had to venture out in the BMW as much as I did not want to, so I chose less traffic roads and drove like a 90 year old. I expected to arrive as the problems started, but no...Nothing!
I had my Dr Appt, then expecting the worse I drove back home, again carefully choosing the most advantageous route to minimise the risk to traffic when the problems manifested themselves...Still nothing!
To clarify, the oil change in the transfer case was done and the fault cleared, wheels are all equal now and yet three drives after having this configuration it just managed 3-4 km before the dreaded surging started and engine cut out effect.
Each diagnostic only showed the glow plugs 3 to 6 as being faulty. Investigating diesel issues outside of BMW as well as on other car models of BMW, it was found that faulty glow plugs can indeed cause this effect as well.

So the E53 has been parked up for two weeks, just the mandatory start and run for a few minutes. I have a battery saver charger on the rest of the time.
Yesterday, curiosity got the better of me and I thought I would see how far I could get and so I told a friend who had a car trailer and a landcruiser that I was coming to visit. I also told him the problems, just in case I was late.
Needless to say I arrived without drama with the maximum road speed reached being 100km/h. I had coffee, a BBQ lunch and decided to head for home using the same quiet back roads. He offered his assistance if I had problems and said to just call him.
Again the Beemer drove flawlessly, so now I am stunned beyond reasonable belief. I feel like saying "Oh the oil just needed to soak in", which is dumb and I know it.

I considered the possibility of the fuel filter and crap settling and not causing flow problems...WTF knows.
I am still going ahead with the glow plug change when I have all the parts, but honestly, I have to say this is like chasing a ghost. I will try another drive today, Sunday and just travel the old roads and not the Express way, see what happens.
No news all went well, if it turns to cow manure...I'll post it!


Jeff

Well, after a month of flawless smooth driving, the day I really needed the POS, I went all of 400 mtr onto the expressway. Then it turned to the same shit once more. I drove towards the first exit to return home and it cleared, stupid me thinking "Aaw it might have been cold"...FFS.. what was I thinking? drove on past that exit and no sooner had I passed under the overhead road and away it goes again with this hiccuping propulsion down the road.


Next exit I was off, but it stalled off completely as I was slowing down and man, that steering is heavy as with out some power into the steering. Stopping at the lights, I restarted and it went first go, and I returned home with hardly any issue at all.


The more I think about this the more I am really starting to think of a blocked fuel filter as it was last time.

You might need to monitor some of the engine parameters while driving - assuming you can set up the Foxwell to do this. See if anything stands out.

I know INPA has a really useful screen I have watched while driving - it shows a bunch of engine parameters.

It does have that capability, but being able to drive and see without having an accident, is like juggling with your ol fella and five balls. :wow:


There was one thing that I did do and whether it has any bearing will have to wait till we get back in March from China.
I drove all that time with the plastic cover off the engine without an issue, the day I was needing to use the car I decided to put it back on earlier in the morning. It does not use the factory hex bolts to hold it on, but they are the correct thread. I was thinking it may be possible that the length could be too much and at some point it could be pressing down on an injector wire.
Yeh, I know it sounds crazy, but you start to look at every single thing you have done when it is misbehaving. Clutching at straws after sitting on the Titanic :bustingup


I have renamed this car, it is now known as "The Punisher", all BMW wheel caps are gone in place of Punisher chrome and black centers and the front bonnet badge which had no colour in it is also a Punisher Skull.