X5 TRANS OIL CHANGE
 

I also changed the oil on my 2000 X5 trans , it had 98K on the truck when i got it. In fact I changed all the fluid in the whole car even brakes. All went very well and 1000 miles later trans is working perfectly. Took my 3500# boat for a 100 mile trip 2 weeks ago and no issues what so ever. whew...:beerchug:

Wow Phil, that is quite a difference!

I called bavauto and they were totally cool about it. They are going to send me some more ZF Lifetime liters with no skipping charge. I got 5 so that I will have enough both for topping off now, and the next partial drain (without dropping the pan). Figure I'll do that in another 3-5k or so.

Hello all,

Flush oil transmission done today by transmission specialist.
My X is at 75k miles and i've decided following shop reco, to let them perform the changed.

Special equipement is required to complete full flush including torque convertor (car was running during the entire procedure)

Oil transmission was really dark and no question ask that this oil needed fresh blood. Shop specialist used 16 litters of wynn's oil syntec OEM recommended or approved by BMW http://www.wynnsusa.com/pdf/12711_SynMultiATFSpecs.pdf ...adding also the wynn's cleaner detergent.

As for the transfer case and differential oil changed claimed as life time by BMW ...well ...the shop transmission specialist did confirmed that oil was same as new and there was no reason to change.

As of now, transmission shifting is really smooth ...but it is difficult to feel the difference....i'll keep you posted

Cheers !

This is a great thread. But what is the Transmission Fluid used in a 2004 3.0 X5? The one the OP uses is incorrect for my year and model.

Although the 3.0 diesel models in Europe got the ZF 6-speed transmission from 2003, the 3.0 petrol models had to put up with the GM 5L40-E transmission (A5S390R) until the E70 came along - so your fluid is Dexron VI/Texaco ETL 8072B.

Phil

Interesing on the Wynns...

I would assume/presume a tranny shop would have used a direct 71141 equivalent and roll the dice with a *compatiable listed* fluid.

Hello, my fisrt asked to the transmission shop owner 30 years experience (he has a chemister University degree...) was to go with the OEM exact fluid type based on my ZF transmission Model. He explained that the wynn's was an absolutly no problem and approved by BMW replacement. Company give 7 years (i think) warranty on their product ( see my hyperlink)

I understand that this is an Equivalence and link with some limited inventory space at the shop.
I'm not expert but this transmission shop is known by other good garage as best in my area.

It was approved by your shop, it wasn't approved by BMW. That fluid is a Dexron fluid.

Agree, i should'nt used the word approve but equivalence
Thanks JCL ;-)

Thanks for that Phil! So BMW would use that Texaco ETL 8072B? Or is there a different brand? Being a GM Tranny anyways. Maybe there is a recommended other brand?

Thanks for this. I read the link to better understand the terms of their warranty.

At your vehicle mileage (75,000 max, any more than that and there is no warranty applicable...) they limit the warranty coverage to $500. They don't cover any faults that show up in the first 500 miles after the flush, they call that the grace period. And you have to keep flushing it with them every 30,000 miles to keep the warranty active. That is quite a restrictive service warranty.

Good luck, hope it works out for you.

Since the consensus on the Castrol was it is a gamble, I returned it.

How about Bilstein Febi Automatic Transmission Fluid (Equivalent to Esso LT71141 & ATF1)?
10 Liter'S Automatic Transmission Fluid Equivalent TO Esso LT71141 ATF1 | eBay

Not looking it up BUT if memory recalls, the Bil-Febi is a direct 71141 fluid..
You can always use the VW, JAG, fluid - just need to find the part #

hmmm,i do see that name on the chart.

This VW fluid?

Volkswagen Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF1) (1 Liter) G052162A2 - RM European Auto Parts

i ordered 3 gallons of castrol import, and was able to do two drain and fills with oem filter and it shifts so smooth and got rid of my 2-1 hard downshift have driven about 2,000 miles on it with my 02 4.6is. changed with 105k with OE fluid which was black. i tried castrol import because of this success story. TravX, http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...st-time-3.html

I've seen good results from the Castrol Multicar Import......

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...ures-poll.html

Glad to see castrol import performing so well in your X. I might do a third drain and fill before winter, although everything is working just fine on a two drain and fill right now.

6hp26 and I used RL D4 with good results also!

changed the filter and did 2 drain-n-fill's... shifts quick and smooth :)

Changed mine at 100k miles, at 170k now. Will be doing another double drain/fill and filter soon.

you should consider doing a DIY video with drain/fill with filter using castrol import on your 5hp24 zf.

I used the Bentley Manual and this DIY.......

http://www.xoutpost.com/x5-e53-forum...hange-diy.html

You need to use a lift or 4 ramps, and you need a pyrometer to top off at correct temp.

Anyone who is DIYing should have the Bentley so correct torque specs are followed, the manual is cheaper then 1 damaged part due to overtorquing.

Hey Guys - I haven't checked the transmission fluid since I've owned the car so today I was doing an oil change and thought I'd check the transmission as well.

I leveled the car, loosened the fill plug on the side and thinking it should just dribble out a bit I wasn't too concerned about having a drain pan underneath. So as the plug came loose, fluid poured out like it was draining from the bottom of the pan. How could anyone get so much fluid into the transmission? I finally got the plug back in but may have lost 1/2 quart on the floor and more was coming out. Any ideas?

The only thing I can think of is the PO said he had the transmission repaired (reverse went out) and the shop filled it on the bench before re-installing.

Was the engine running when you removed the filler/level plug?

Phil

Perhaps someone can explain to me why if the ATF is life time that a drain is included in the pan and yet with my old Torqueflite trans the fluid is suppose to be changed every 30,000 miles but they didn't install a drain plug?

Bingo

Engine was probably also hot or warm for the engine oil change so that made the ATF expand.

The car sat overnight so I ran it for about 2 minutes to warm it up just a bit. Didn't shift gears at all. I didn't think it should be too warm when I checked the fluid.

The engine must be ticking over during the whole process - while you remove the plug and while you set the level. Otherwise the contents of the torque converter and valve block will drain back into the sump, raising the fluid level.

Also, the fluid temperature should be 40 deg. C when the level is set.

Phil

Thanks RR - not sure what I was thinking - obviously I wasn't thinking that may be the problem. I'll recheck now that I'm probably down at least half a quart.

Thanks again for the help - Gotta love the Xoutpost community!!

Pan is off. Fluid was dirty.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ps0ce7104b.jpg
Magnets full of gunk.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...psd61778ad.jpg

Filter says Walger. Does that mean it has been replaced before?
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...psad54f22b.jpg

New ZF filter.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ps1706357f.jpg

Does the O ring just sit at the indent or do I need to roll it down?
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ps450f6221.jpg

Finally since it is 103/39c do I not need to be concerned with warming it up?
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ps2eaed866.jpg

Letting it drip over night, I have 10 quarts of Lifeguard 5 so the more I can get in teh better right?

Thanks

Done, took 6.5 quarts after several fill, drip close, start put in gear fill etc.

Car feels pretty much the same, it shifted fine before.

Good posts e30cabrio. I too was wondering about the fill plug. I may just check this as our 3.0 2004 X5 slips when morning cold. My wife has to pre-warm the car every morning for about 5 minutes. My Porsche 928 does this when it's low in fluid. I am wondering if this may be the case. I was going to try and top it off if no fluid comes out of the fill plug when tranny "cold."

Thanks.

I have a cheap tube pump I hate so I figured I'd get one that attaches to the bottle.

Damn thing broke on the second pump.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ps3e58645d.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...pse0ca7ba8.jpg

That looks like the same pump I bought today at Autozone. Mine worked great - pumped about 1/2 quart into the tranny after my brain fart yesterday...

Ha ha. yeah, those cheap pumps are the same ones I see in your drain pan I use to fill my 928 Transaxle with. Yeah, they don't last long. Mine usually last for a few uses, then stops working. But they are so cheap, I just buy another.

I did buy myself a small 12v pump that I want to make one using some wood, etc. Just no time to accomplish that.

I bought the one in the bottle because the one in the drain pan sucks.

The bottle one broke immediately, the other finished the job.

Transmission fluid need to be at the correct level. Too much or too little hurt.
When the tranny is "cold" (overnight) fluid will NOT come out when you remove fill-plug. The correct level must be check at correct temp range. I see no reason for the tranny to loose some fluid unless you have a leak somewhere.
So if you want to check the tranny fluid level, you have to warm it up with a short drive around the block or so, and check its temp.

I have an IR Temp reader. Where do you check the temp? Point the reader at the case itself?

First real drive this morning feels better less noise.

Anyone know about that filter brand? I'd love to know if it was replaced before.

The filter you removed, and the one that you replaced it with, are both genuine Filtran units (Made In Germany) as fitted by ZF. The manufacturing date is applied to the bottom of the filter in white paint so you should be able to tell if the old filter was the original one fitted at the factory.

Phil

Thanks, I'll post a closeup of the numbers tonight when I get home.

Here are closeups of all the numbers. I can't make a date aou of them.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ps60c5524b.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...psbff23eb0.jpg

Yes, that is the manufacturing date (German for October is Oktober, abbreviated to Okt) but the year looks too smudged to read unfortunately.

Phil

I looked closely and am pretty sure it says 2002.

Thanks

How many miles before I can stop worrying changing the fluid did harm?

I have about 130 on it and so far so good.

I did my 1st fluid change 200 miles ago @ 133k, and now the transmission is stuck in 3rd or 4th all the time when driving. :(

It lurches when putting it in R backing out of the garage in the morning and again when putting it in D to drive off, but other than is is smooth, except for the slow acceleration with is probably putting a strain on the torque converter.

I'm guessing one or more of the valve body passages got blocked?

Oh Gawd, now this is discouraging news.

Yeah, I finally realized it for the first time this morning driving to work when trying to pass someone. It never down shifted. When I move the shifter to the sport/manual mode, I'm unable to change gears as well.

I had noticed the jerkiness when backing out for a few days, but not that I had been in 3/4 the entire time.

I think it was a false alarm and caused by the battery being low.

In another thread it was suggested that the battery could have been low (which is likely since I have been tuning my new amps without the engine running over the last few days).

Sure enough, when I went out to lunch today, the symptoms where completely gone!

I am at about 400 miles after changing the filter/6.5 bottles of Lifeguard 5. Running nice.

Yea when i did my first fluid and filter change, i started experiencing weird shifts and a reverse issue. Turned out my shift solenoids got some shit disslodged into them. When I swapped them out, all issues went away.

I'm at 500 miles after changing ...16 liters !!! of wynn's oil ...no problem at all so far

There are many posts stating that if you change the transmission fluid there is the risk that the detergent in the new fluid can dislodge particles that can cause damage. In addition, if I recall correctly, I read only one post in this tread that said the fluid looked and smelled new when they changed it.

There are also many posts stating the transmission is problematic. If that is the case, something needs to be changed. Since there are many current transmissions out there with a preventative maintenance schedule for change of fluid and filter that is a easy change we can make.

I think a logical conclusion from this thread is that the fluid and filter should be changed at a frequency that prevents contaminant buildup. Also,the fluid should be changed before the fluid has lost much of it's original color and smell. If that was ones procedure there wouldn't be contaminants lying in wait to potentially destroy the transmission when the fluid is changed.

Another is if you have not changed the fluid for 100,000 or your opinion is no matter the frequency there will always be contaminants there are at least two options. One is to don't change anything.

Another is to drop the pan, save the fluid and just change the filter. The filter is there to remove contaminates. If over time there are particles lying in wait, the filter should be changed before that happens.

Having said all that, The troubleshooting the BMW transmission in the Bentley BMW service manual is the following: "Minor automatic transmission problems may be corrected by changing the automatic fluid (ATF) and the filter. Begin by checking ATF level and condition. Check to see if the fluid is dirty or has a burned odor indicating overheated fluid. The burned odor may be the results of burned discs in the clutch pack. The friction material from the burned discs may clog valve body passages."

Some more questions for those that know-there must be a vent from the trans as those who profess to know say the fluid expands when heated-if that is the case there should be a vent to relieve the pressure-yes? Similarly- if the fluid were suddenly cooled-as in fjording a cold 20" stream-the fluid would contract and there would be a vacuum in the tranny-so again a vent would be of benefit as long as it was above the fjording depth.
Second question-there was a mass change of fluid in Allison transmissions in motorhome RV and other vehicles using the Allison. When GM dropped the certification of Dexron 111 - Allison developed a synthetic fluid as replacement. Eventually there was a fluid change proceedure to change out the majority of the fluid- by exchange. The return line from the trans cooler would be directed through an attached clear hose to a bucket, an assistant would be adding more new fluid while the old was being drained- a second assistant was in the vehicle starting the vehicle and running it through forward/reverse/park to move the new fluid through as many passages as possible. With the clear tubing it was reasonably easy to see when the older darker fluid was draining and eventually the cleaner new fluid coming out- that was the indicator that the exchange was done. The final level was adjusted and all was good.
Last question-does anyone have a clever way of measuring the trans fluid level in our X5 so that when we service our tranny we can be sure we have the correct level- rather than chancing repeating a too high or low level from just relying on what was found in the trans??

I'm about to have my trans fluid changed and was reading this post. I think it's import to use the right fluid as to not harm the clutch plates over a long term.

I believe each of us with different years and different engines have different transmissions while all basically the same they are very different. I know the different colors on the trans means special fluid for each. Like I said above it's more about the materials in the trans than dirt particles.

As far as people changing there own fluids and having problems afterwards where there has been none. I believe the people having problems.. the fluid is to low and that's why they jerk in gear. There is a whole procedure to fill with my 4.4i. You fill the side of the trans like the differencail until the fluid runs out. You then put the plug in and put the car in gear on the lift and run it through the gears. You take the drain plug out again and fill until it runs out.

Now OEM filters.....I know they ARE A MUST...I've changed many 7 series trans and the use of and aftermarket filter of any kind causes them to collapse during shifts causing slippage....ONLY USE OEM Filters.

id also ask the shop youre going to what kind of fluid theyre using
called a reputable shop in my area and got quoted 300$ less than the dealer only to find out they were going to use Wolf's head fluid which costs about 3$/qt..they also offered a 90 day warranty
I asked if they could use my fluid and filter which is ZF lifetime 6 fluid and superior in every way to the wolfs head and they said yeah but no warranty..im like what you gotta be kidding me!
So they drop whatever oil that "works" in every tranny in this world but with more expensive oil that is the correct one for my type of tranny they wont cover in case of damage..i decided to take my business elsewhere,...

* $300 and $3.

I've heard of shops that'll do a flush in reverse (loosens the sediment apparently) but you've gotta have them drain their system and then bring enough to refill it. Valvoline MaxLife I believe is compatible...I haven't done a drain & fill for like 5yrs.

I used redline D4 close to a year ago when I changed my filter / mechtronic sleeve. no ill effects and it shifts better then ever!

no reason to spend $100's of dollars on "special" fluid.

With all the threads there have been about the question to change or not to change the transmission fluid, largely stemming from transmission problems the OP is already having and as expensive as transmission repairs are---I have no idea what the logic would be to use anything other than the BMW or transmission mfg. recommended fluid if one decides they are on the 'side' that believes changing the fluid is a good thing.

I just had this convo with my Indy BMW certified mechanic. He was very adamant that if your trans is over 60k don't flush it don't mess with it, he's seen to many transmissions destroyed after a full flush and the debris that is in there is circulating and doing no harm, flushing and refilling it dislodges the debris winding up else where and basically cost you your tranny.. Was just browsing forum to confirm this.. I'll ask about maybe just a filter change soon.. Anyway that was his 2 cents

It helped ensure that you examined the filter as well.

2002 X5 3.0 259,400 miles
2004 325i 115,000 miles

I'm about to do an ATF change on my (new to me) 169k mile 2001 x5 3.0i. I've spent hours reading things on the site, trying to make this as successful as I can, but I have a few questions still:
Based on what I'm learning about the car and the maintenance, the PO was more into repairing things when they break than in preventing anything. He gave me all the receipts since 2004/46k miles, including $12k+ of repairs in the last two years. So I'm assuming the ATF is original.
I will be using Castrol Dexron VI, certified ... I have the Bentley manual and will be using that as my main instructions, with info from the site here to fill in some blanks.

Does it make sense, as a precaution, to try to check the ATF level under the same conditions (idling in Park, car level, at 30C) BEFORE doing the change? Anyone ever done that? That way, measuring what came out vs. what goes in would be more meaningful.

Wanting to get as much old ATF out, but without doing anything with the engine running, I'm considering also disconnecting the ATF cooler lines at the radiator (only with the engine off) - even if it only gets another quart out, it seems easy to do. Comments?

For the step that includes shifting through all the gears after the initial cold fill, I figured I'd test how that works, and did so earlier today. Car idling, foot on the brake, I shift into Steptronic mode and shift into 1, then 2 (no problems so far), then 3, and the display shows it go to 3 but then back to 2 a second or so later. I don't know if any shift actually occurred. Same thing with 4 and 5. I can shift the manual lever so it shows 3 then 4 then 5 on the display, but it takes itself back to 2 within a second or so and I can't tell if any shifting actually occurred. Is this normal? Did shifting to the higher gears actually occur? Will this phantom (if I'm right in thinking that nothing actually shifted) shifting be sufficient for the ATF change procedure? Am I right that this cycling through the gears happens with the parking brake on, and my foot on the brake?

It would not be hard for me to do all of the above, take a spin around the block, where I actually do shift into all gears, and then check the level again.

And in case it helps anyone else, while changing the diff oil over the weekend, I determined that the ATF drain bolt is a Torx T40. I cracked that and the fill bolt loose and then tight again to make sure I won't have any problems there.

Thanks.

I've heard flushing the transmission oil is not recommended.Is it true?I was about to do it but many people say I better don't.

Most of us that are on the side of changing ATF fluid in the never ending debate just drain the fluid, remove the pan to replace the filter and be done with it. Some wait a few hundred miles and drain and refill the transmission again to further remove some of the old stuff. The majority of the AFT fluid that is not drained is in the Torque convertor. So disconnecting anything is not going to be of much benefit. If you want to remove all the fluid you could have a transmission flush done but I don't think that is necessary nor a good thing to do.

Even in manual mode the transmission will downshift to the programmed appropriate gear. So, yes, the transmission is changing gears. This is normal. Cycling the gears as you have done is fine though allow time for the fluid to heat up some. It is important to then check the fluid level and top it off as needed after that process. The fluid fill and check should be done with the vehicle level.

Each of us have a history of costs for repairs and or PM. There is a wide variation of the contents of that list. I think those on the low side are far more likely to be on the side of PM. Many here bought there X5 after it already had significant miles on the clock. Even with a good history there are a so many factors that can compromise the worth of that history and thus what can happen in their ownership. I bought my X5 new and have always been a PM freak. My list of repairs is on the short end even though I drive very hard and have many performance mods. One thing that I have noticed from decades of taking the path of PM is that there have been many times that I found something that was near failure. An example is a cooling hose. If that cooling hose had burst it is quite possible that I would have lost the water pump, blown a head gasket, warped a head or even the block. Those are the kinds of simple PM procedures that result in a short side list. In the case of the hoses, I consider PM as checking the hoses rather than replacing them at some set interval. This is another reason why my list is on the short side. Using the transmission as an example, I never even considered the ATF fluid as lifetime. I have changed the fluid and filter every 50,000 miles as the appropriate PM I choose.

I did the change on my 2001 x5 3.0 a week or so and 100 miles ago. Nothing has blown up yet! Some comments:

The ATF looked to be 169k miles and 13 years old. Shockingly dirty. Virtually no actual debris (shavings, etc.) found anywhere (and I did look carefully in the filter [cut it open], the pan, and the drain pan), but tons of very uniform and extremely fine particles were everywhere. Like a powder throughout everything. Clutch material, I assume.

Driving feels amazingly smoother than before. I really did not expect this. I did not think there was anything wrong with how it drove before, but as an example, I now feel comfortable driving in steptronic mode vs. before I guess there was enough delay in the shifting that I never did it.

This is the GM transmission, so I refilled it with Castrol (real, certified) Dexron VI for about $6/quart. Meistersatz filter with the metal/rubber gasket, just like OE. So for me doing it myself, the actual cost to change is negligible (not counting the cost of the risk).

I did NOT touch the ATF cooler lines. Playing it as safe as I can. I figured there is a chance that opening an air bubble in the line or cracking open a seal may be riskier than not touching it. I still got 7 quarts out. The Bentley says capacity is 9.5 qts with the torque converter, 8.5 without.

I did check ATF level before draining, using the same careful procedure as for making the final level check. I'm very glad I did this, so I'm confident that there were no leaks beforehand, the amount that came out matched what went in, and that my level checking method is accurate.

Regarding going through all the gears using the steptronic with my foot on the brake, I'm now pretty certain that it never shifts above 2. Total lack of shifting sound, and the fact that downshifting from the indicated 3-4-or-5 goes straight to 1 suggests that it was really in 2. This suggests that getting the wheels rolling is needed to get it in the higher gears, as called for in the procedure.

After a week or so of driving around, with what I thought was a good ATF level, I checked again: Car cold, jacked up and level, idling in Park, remove fill plug, nothing comes out, reach in and feel the ATF right there, after a few minutes of idling to warm up, ATF starts to dribble out. So I figure this is perfect, and I torqued the fill plug back on. BTW, even with 7 out of 9.5 quarts changed, the stuff that dribbled out was so dirty that I'll be repeating this procedure again soon.

I did the AT reset procedure (hold down the gas for 25+ seconds in ignition switch position 2, before driving away), and it did seem to make it drive differently. But I've since read a very definitive explanation (that I believe) that this resets the driver adaptation part of AT control, but that is reset each time the car is started anyway.

But, is there a different part of the AT control that involves a slower adaptation to AT changes which could be reset too?

I'm wondering how long it will take until I'm "out of the woods" on this. Is 100 miles enough?

I'm well aware of the danger in changing ATF this old, but decided to do it very carefully and hope for the best. I'm still kind of driving it like a granny for now most of the time. As of now, I'm very glad I did it.

Some specs for other A5S 390R transmission ATF changers (5-speed AT made by GM, in the 3.0 E53's):
Fill bolt - 17mm hex head, no washer, 18 Nm, left side towards rear
Drain bolt - Torx T40, no washer (has what looks to be a non-replaceable o-ring in it), 18 Nm. The threads here are on a nut that is welded to the bottom of the pan, so if you remove the drain plug and don't remove the pan, there will be ~5/8" of fluid left in the pan.
Gasket - metal/rubber is OE. 20 screws are 10mm hex head, 10 Nm. Does anyone know why the gaskets all have 22 holes for 20 screws?
Filter - no screws on this one. 2 seals on the tube are aluminum with orange seal around it. Make sure both seals pull out of the hole (top one on mine stayed behind when I pulled the filter out).
ATF - despite the scary warning on the sticker on the pan, etc. the updated specification from BMW for this AT is Dexron VI. As advised by others on this site, I was careful to get stuff that is actually "certified" for that specification, rather than other less definitive wording. My drop the pan and drain overnight removed 7 quarts from a previously correctly filled system.

Very complete and thorough post. I don't think that 100 miles is enough to guarantee no further potential issues, but I wouldn't spend any effort worrying about it. You did it very carefully, used the right fluid, and so on. Just drive it and enjoy it.

:iagree:

Serviced the tranny a month ago in our 2003 X5 using this information and all went well. Thanks OP for starting this thread.

The tranny pan was so dirty I couldn't see the manufacturing sticker on the pan and ordered ATF from fleabay. Thankfully I cleaned the pan before draining and found the sticker and determined the ATF used was a Dexron 4 and not what the Bentley manual and other information indicated...including the compatibility tool the vendor had on fleabay. Now I have $91 worth of the wrong ATF sitting in my garage. Better there than in the X5.

Used Amsoil ATF1G red label to be compatible with BMW PN 83 220 024 359