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Air conditioning failure
Here is my situation:
My A/C had a sudden failure. One day it is working, the next day it stopped working. There was NO gradual warming of the air over time at all. All the setting were the same, but the air is hot! The air is blowing at the same speed but just hot. I searched through the forums and others mentioned the FSR, Low refrigerent/leak. So i went to an indy shop and they hooked it up to their machine and it showed that all the pressure levels were within spec. The shop mentioned that they believe it is an electrical problem and that its best i take it to the stealership to have it checked out. I went ahead and changed the FSR since i was having that problem as well, but my A/C issues did not resolve? Anyone have an idea what the failure could be? Aux fan? blower? Thanks guys, Musali |
AC
My 01 was blowing hot air at a stop if I was moving the ac was working good I replaced the aux fan and now its working good. My aux fan was not starting when I would trun on the ac.
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my A/C blows hot air when im travelling on the highway, i was thinking it was the fan too.
I opened the hood, and turned on the a/c button on the console and hte fan did not start. However, two or three days later, i parked the car, shut the car off and walked infront of the car on my way to work and i hear a fan moise blowing. Not sure if its the radiator fan or the aux fan. IT seemed to be the aux fan. so im pretty lost as to what i should do next besides take it to the dealer. |
My X5 A/C also died. Took it to the dealer and it turned out to be a relay. They fixed it and it hs been ok since (about two months now).
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This problem is usually the aux fan.
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If your auxillary fan is not functioning you will still get cold air when the car is moving. If you have no cold air at all most likely you compressor is not running. with the AC on, open the hood and see if the compressor clutch is engaging and the auxillary fan is spinning. The most common reason for no AC is low freon or electrical like fuse or relay.
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the aux fan when i took a look was not moving, so it should be the culprit, however at highspeeds i still get NO cold air at all. so im not sure what that means.
the fuses are intact. i checked those already. where ar eth relays? and how do i check for that? |
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I had the same problem and replaced the FSR. However, after further investigastion the culprit was the aux fan. Had to replace the whole aux fan assembly..... Everything is working fine.......:thumbup:
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I would check the auxiliary fan and keep your eye on the temp gauge.
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thanks guys, Ill try to replace the aux fan and see if that helps.
take care, musali |
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Any progress ? I had the same problem :confused: |
i had the same problem, it blowed hot air all the time, even after i pulled the key out. It turned out to be the A/C controll failed. I had the a/c controll replaced and coded, it works fine now.
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I'm of course having problems with my airconditioner. If you read my other posts you will see that I have had a problem with just about everything there is to have an issue with and I haven't even listed all the ones that I just got fixed without question.. that was before I found this forum. Anyway, I was told I needed the blower replaced, which I did for around six hundred, however, it is still blowing hot air. I took it to jiffy lube because someone told me they would recharge the freeon(don't know how to spell it) and the guy tested it first and told me that he wouldn't do it because I had a hole in one of the lines so it would just leak out. My question is was there ever a problem with the blower? and after they replaced it why didn't they see this whole in the line? I guess I know the answer to that question.. Stealership! my real question is how difficult is it to replace this line with a whole in it and after that is fixed do the just fill it with freeon and it should work? I do have a new blower.. also is the blower the same thing as the aux fan?
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sarnomel
No the blower is different from the aux fan. the blower fan makes it blow at you, the aux fan is the big electric fan in front of the radiator and condenser behind the grilles. musali If the aux fan wasn't working, the high side pressure would get really high when the ac is operating, the aux fan cools the condenser which lowers the head pressure. If the operating pressures were "within specs" then the low side should have been about 30-35psi, and the high side anywhere from 180ish to 250ish... depending on outside temperature and other environmental conditions. Anytime you set the ac to max, the aux fan should be running pretty fast, if it isn't running at all, I'd check power and signal to it, then replace it. However if its coming on, replacing it will do no good. If it gets cold when you first start the car in the morning, then gets hot as the engine warms, the heater control valves could be sticking open... which heats the air the ac just cooled. But if it does stay hot all the time, you should find out what the running pressures actually are and how they change/react to higher engine speeds, like holding it at 2000 rpms. Whoever looks at the system to diagnose it for you needs to fully understand how an ac system works and how to "read" the pressures... has to know what causes what. The guys at jiffylube are NOT the best people for this, as that is the proverbial bottom of the barrel when it comes to competent mechanics. I wouldn't even let them change the oil in a BMW. (although watching them search for the oil filter is quite funny) And one more thing, don't let an experience with one bad tech ruin your perception of a "stealership" I know the labor price and parts prices are higher, but in general, you get what you pay for. I have been a tech at a BMW dealership for about 5 years now, and was at a few different independents including pep boys before. I can tell you MOST of the techs at the dealership are a HELL of alot better than even the better techs at an independent for diagnosing and fixing your BMW. Its just that they do hire some younger, less experienced kids from a generic tech school... and they are the ones who make the occasional simple mistakes and miss-diagnosis. If you go to the dealer for the correct parts instead of cheap aftermarket ones, and for specialized, factory trained techs that work on the same kind of car all day... and subsequently know them inside and out. Simply request from your service adviser to give your car to a "senior tech" or master tech for diagnosis. |
Geez, when this happened to me my stealer told me it was the center console condenser. $4,000!!! About 2 weeks later it happened again. He told me that the machines were "quirky". They put it on a 2nd machine and it was low on freon. Hmmmm, did I spend 4 grand to prove he had quirky machines? It hasn't happened again since then (2 years now) however, when the temp is over 90 degrees or so I have to keep the MAX setting to achieve any comfort level. I like it to feel like a meat locker when I'm driving. Aux fan?
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Hi everybody.
I too need help with this problem so rather than making a new thread, I hope it's OK to tag along in this one. The fan inside my wife's X5 (hence the username) is not working at wall. After some research I decided to change the FSR, but that didnt fix it. The blower seems to have no power no matter what I pressed. When I switch on & off the AC I do hear some clicking from the front of the car, but the fan doesnt do anything. BTW all the fuses that have to do with blower and AC are good. If anyone has any suggestion, please tell me. Also, where is the relay located? Thanks. Dan PS: this is an awesome site. I was able to fix the window regulator using the instructions from this website. My next job would be the rear brakes. |
I just got my car back from the dealer...AC was only blowing hot...they ended up replacing my auxilary fan, FSR, and my compressor was not kicking over so got a new one.....thank god for CPO!
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http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...erresistor.jpg If you see that burnt line protruding from the back, (right above the plug in this picture) then thats definitely the problem. The resistor is simply clipped in on the side and is easily removed. Once replaced with the new and improved blower resistor, viola! reassemble and you're done! and if you use the search at the bottom of the home page, just type in blower resistor and it will pull up numerous previous posts about this same problem. |
Thanks Weasel56. Yes that's correct, no fan at all whether I put it on auto or all the way up. I did change that resistor, but it didn't fix the problem. So I'm thinking it's either the relay or the blower motor. I hope I don't have to change the motor because I heard that it's very difficult. If you know which relays to check and where they're located, please let me know. Also, what is the aux fan?
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Is there an easy way to change the aux' fan in front of the condensor. If not, how is it done. I have a TIS manual on disc, but can't seem to find the procedure. Thanks Colin. |
You may have to remove the bumper cover on the front... don't remember off hand because my brain is fried from a long weekend of heavy drinking and long nights on top of lots of work on the house during daylight hours.
The replacement info should be on your TIS disc , but they like to hide things in odd places. The fan may either be under engine electronics or under ac/heat climate control... but it is there somewhere. |
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Colin. |
I was just able to get into TIS, look under repair instructions, group 17, cooling system; subgroup 40, auxillery electrical fan. Hopefully you can find that on your TIS cd... I'm getting it from the BMW tech website, but that is a protected site with login. But the TIS cd should have it.
And no need to remove condenser, just bumper cover and some supports. |
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Thanks, found it. I was getting into TIS by entering the last seven numbers/letters of my VIN. This would then bring up a r/h drive, 2005 diesel specific to my exact car. For some reason, the auxiliary cooling fan and condensor are not mentioned here. I found it by entering TIS without using a VIN, but by entering a generic specification and looking from there. The fan is quite an involved job. As you said, and I suspected, the whole front of the car has to be removed to get at the mounting screws. My car is in at the dealers, as I type, for it's scheduled service. I have asked them to check it out, as I believe they can check/manually run the fan through the diagnostic computer. Haven't heard back from them, so am wondering what they have found. Will let you know. Thanks again, Colin. |
my aux fan is not working
Does anyone know how to do it? Pls. post any info on how to detach the fan. Thanks in advance...
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AC is not working on my 2003 X5. I changed the AUX fan; but it only turns on if i disconect the, What I think is the FSR. The compressor is not engaging; but the Freon level checks out to be at the right level. I think it's the relay.
Can anyone tell me where it is located? |
Sometimes if the AUX fan is not working, the IHKA will not release the compressor to turn on.... worked on one today like that. Unfortunately you have to remove the whole front bumper to change the AUX fan.
And for a proper diagnosis bring it to the dealer or any other shop with the GT1 as you can look at ac request status and go through component activation to see if the ac compressor and aux fan work, etc. The proper test equipment makes a world of difference in the diagnosis process. |
I also had an issue with my ac, soon after replacing the battery. I ended up disconnecting the battery for a few hours to reset the cpu , and then hooked it up again. The ac starting working again, with no issues since then.
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I run GT1 and it shows that clutch "ON" shortly after AC button "ON". So, brains is clicking but there is no juice to fan/clutch. How do I do "component activation" in GT1 manually? |
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The clutch status you were seeing in status request was the compressor clutch, not fan clutch. In the control module functions you could click test modules or component activation (whatever it is called in the GT1 version you are using) and select auxillery fan or electric fan, whatever they call it in that version, and activate it. It usually gives you choises of 30%, 60% or 90% activation. I'd test all 3 output stages. |
Weasel, thanks as always for replying !
I'm not that bad! But I wasn't clear enough. I meant AC Compressor clutch. GT1 shows it's ON shortly after button on panel pressed but clutch is not engaging. I have pretty good knowledge of AC systems. It's not cycling, nothing! AUX fan in front of radiator doesn't come on either. I only hear DME adjusting RPM's for expected load from compressor, thats it. Bentley says aux fan should come in when car started for short time, that doesn't happen. Are they interconnected? Auyx Fan and AC compressor clutch? |
Does your system have the proper refridgerant charge? Did you check the fuses? It looks like the system is trying to activate the clutch but something is stopping it whether it be the power not getting to it or something else. There is only one wire to the compressor, and it is right on top of it... So that would make the signal to the clutch easy to read with a meter.
And the AUX fan is activated by the DME and affected by different inputs to the DME, the AC clutch is the same. The IHKA (ac control) makes the ac request and the DME has to release it depending on what it sees with the different sensors etc. |
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Thanks for the reply...I have actually fix the problem.
1st thing I had to do was to replace the AUX fan. 2nd Took it to a shop which checked for freon level Still no ac; but they did check power to the compressor and found there was power but the clutch was still not turning on.. I actually removed the clutch without disconnecting the compressor lines and found there is a fuse (1A 250V) that had gone bad. This seem odd I had never seen a fuse on a AC clutch before. Tried to find the fuse; but did ot. So, I bypassed the fuse with a thin wire. All is good now! the compressor is working and the AC is ice cold. Would have cost at Min. $500-$600 to replace compressor or as much as $1000-$1500. |
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It's very nice have a tech on board to handle the difficult questions. Great job, Weasel!
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What year is your X? (the user interface is different on some than others)
Try the control module functions button on the right bottom of the page after the short test is done. In there select DME from the list, then see if there is a link in the middle window for component activation. If so then it is in there. Otherwise you gotta go through function selection, complete vehicle, DME, test plan. Then go in through there to expert mode then component activation. |
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I will try that tonight. My DIS v55 if that makes difference, I beleive there is no programming in there, but activations should be. Right? |
Correct. You should be able to do it no problem, the trick is learning how to navigate the tester.
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For bad news ... Compressor clutch wire shows 4.1V at all time. Crappy multimiter? I don't know. Activation form DIS didn't do much to voltage. However, with car started I see good 12.4V when AC on and 4.1V when off. Clutch does not activate. I guess I know what is the problem now. Looks like that little fuse described above. Now I need to figure out how to take it off (clutch) |
Hi x52003x5,
Great post! Can you tell me where this fuse for the ac clutch is located. You have its part no.? How much is it? Thanks. |
Quick update on my side.
Clutch was dead. Direct 12V didn't help either and it allowed me to pinpoint problem. I was able to take clutch off without opening system. I got coil out and of couse it's fried. There is no fuse or anything like that. Dead coil. Of course, BMW wants you to buy whole unit, no clutch available separately. This means openning system, replacing,etc. You get picture, probably $1400+ at dealer when all said and done. I found clutch coil only on eBay, however dimensions listed were little different. I contacted seller and he was very knowledgeble. After spending 1/2 hour on a phone with caliper and coil in my hand he was able to find a match in his stock. It was shipped today. Guy was very happy because now he can list one on eBay as BMW X5 coil :) He was very surprised that BMW used Calsoinic brand compressor. Will post update later on if I succeed. Hopefully, it will be under $50 fix for me... |
Katit, very intersesting post indeed! I'm monitoring your progress as I have the same problem with my compressor. I'm a bit confused, though. Is there such a thing as an ac clutch fuse as mentioned by X52003X5? Can you name the ebay seller who sold you the clutch coil? Many thanks in advance.
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I also have ac blower problem but its wifes e39. couldn't find good info from other sites. does anyone know where to find fuse #75/76 ? under dsah card listed it,, figure e39 and x5 is very similar. i have checked compressor clutch engagement and its ok.
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The E39 uses the same final stage resistor as the E46 and E53 that are prone to failure. That may be your problem... and the instal instructions found in the "tips and tricks" link from the home page will be about the same too. :thumbup:
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See attached brake down of parts for clutch. Also, comparison of old and new coils. Connector will need to be transferred and locating pin on new coil need to be grinded down as it's in wrong location. I'm not sure yet if I will put new locating pin, probably will do somethig like tiny bolt. Also, I'm not sure if that diode critical to operation and I need to transfer it to new coil. Parts from right to left: 1. Coil goes in first 2. Ring holds coil 3. Pulley goes in next, used autozone tool to get it out. To get in I used fine sandpaper on compressor housing. Now it goes on by hand. 4. Ring holds pulley 5-6. Tiny adjustment washers go inside of top plate. Then plate goes on to the shaft . 7. T30 torx bolt goes in with locktite. Autozone tool used to hold it (kind of because there is no holes) All in all should be easy. I didn't put it back yet but I don't see problem. I will update when I complete. |
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Contact info for person who sells coils:
Adam (267) 250 0013 Mooon101 at aol com |
Very informative thread, wish I'd read it a month ago before I changed my compressor. Would probably have been much cheaper. Kudos to the experts for sharing their knowledge.
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Ok, closing my story.. eBay coil works good, AC blows cold, everything put together and works just fine.
Hopefully it will help somebody avoid compressor replacement |
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I forgot to mention that I did install diode. I used one of those I had for car security installs. They pretty generic diodes. The reason I decided on using diode is because coil itself is somewhat capacitor. When power goes off - coil releases current back into circuit and could damage electronics.
Spent 5 minutes with soldering iron. Installed diode and transferred connector. I didn't take picture of finished product but if you will have coil out you will understand what to do. Make sure install diode in proper direction :) |
I think my A/C Compressor clutch is nearing the end of its life. Occasionally I'll notice a very slight vibration. I can't actually feel it, but I can see it in the reflection in my rear-view mirror when at a stop light. I've noticed that if I turn on the A/C, vibration goes away. Turn A/C off, and vibration comes back most of the time.
Anybody have any thoughts? |
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Looks like you have engine vibration on lower rpm's. Could be many things. |
The air conditioner will not activate unless the aux fan is functioning. First try the 50A fuse relative to the aux fan to see if it's blown. 100,000 miles seems to be the design life of the fan.
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If the fuse isn't the issue, then try bypassing the relay and power the aux fan directly from the + terminal of the battery located in the hood. If the fan doesn't run then obvious that is the problem.
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I mean, people, ... If you not sure how aux fan works in X5, don't give advices. There is no way to power up fan "from battery"
Connector that goes to fan has 3 wires. One CONSTANT power, another constant ground (both thick wires) 3rd is a signal wire. Depending on width of signal control built into fan will apply power. If you have oscilloscope you can watch that signal wire to make sure computer sends proper signal. Fuse protects only (+) wire but most likely it is fine. On start-up DME will start fan for short period of time and then watch if there is current coming back (motor spinning working as alternator). Thats how DME knows if fan motor is good. I beleive AC will work even with aux bad. There is evidences here that "AC works only while moving". I make this conclusions from reading forums but I'm not sure how DME control things internally... |
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Thanks to members of this board, i have fixed a prblem. |
Read entire thread, great stuff.
I'm trying to figure out why my Aux fan won't engage when parked but my A/C blows cold air. I have codes for AUX Fan showing, could someone please adivse. thanks |
I was just diagnosed with this problem and the dealer wants 1k to replace my aux fan. It was determined bad after they installed a new aux fan from outside the car? I read all the attached threads on this subject and saw that to replace the aux fan the front bumpber needs to be removed to de/re-install? Does anyone have a write up that I could follow and do myself? It seems it'd be four screws and plug, not to over simplify our complicated vehicles.
Thanks for the input. David |
I've always wondered why car manufacturers/suppliers seemingly cannot design a blower motor resistor (Final Stage Resistor in BMW-speak) that is more reliable. Blower motor resistor failure seems to be a rather common failure mode on many vehicles, e.g., I replaced one on my 1982 Toyota, someone else' s Ford Focus, a friend's Ford Taurus, etc.
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Hey, well i just replaced my aux fan....it all started when i noticed that i was driving with my max button for the most part of the trip so i though well i have 130K maybe i need to charge the system. Since its cheaper to charge the system then replace fan i did that and i noticed it blew cold so a month later i noticed that driver side is coldest and when comming to a stop the ac blows hot air. so went to an indy and he check and fan didnt turn on even when the truck was fully warmed up and it was 95F outside. So bought new oem fan from ebay for 335 shipped. its quite simple to replace. I followed the direction on here to remove the plastic bumper and the metal bumper i didnt fully remove i just loosened all the bolts and that gave enough room to slide the whole fan assembly down and out and the new one was replace same way. this all took me about 2hrs at most. now my problem is that it now blows cold but i noticed that the driver side is still the coldest. so the compressor has to be working for it to blow cold, and its not the FSR since im getting air. Im down to either low charge (even tho it was charged at most 1.5months ago by dumping creating vacuum not the cheap way of just adding) or the water valves are stuck? any suggestions. Should i charge once more? it cost me 80 bucks from the looks of the price for the valves i think its still cheaper what do you guys think?
this thread is on the valve issue http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...ht-thread.html and this one has some tricks which i will try tomorrow http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...nger-side.html also is there a way to merge these threads since their really great tool for diagnostic purposes for a very common issue? |
If you go get the AC charge checked again go somewhere with an AC machine that automatically fills to the right amount as the X5 only takes 0.98 lbs of refrigerant.
And it is possible that the aux fan being out caused you to lose a small bit of charge as the high side pressure can spike upwards of 400psi with the fan out causing it to purge a bit from the blow out valve on the compressor... |
hmm.....makes sense...today i checked the temps from left to right (driver to pass) it was 60, 62ish, 68ish, 72ish. so its not just me the there is a real difference i guess..ill get the freon checked out again and see how things are..
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i suspect the aux fan is not so crucial for ac since the engine fan is more powerful and it does suck a good amount of air thru the radiator fins. i have seen someone who removed their aux fan on his e53. the ac is a lot more sensitive to the feon level.
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Rockmelon....i think you forgot to read my post....it BLOWS HOT WITHOUT the fan..!!!!! with fan blows cold without blows hot. its simple ...also the engine fan is not that powerful! it doesn't suck that much air the aux fan is a pusher fan it pushes air into the radiator! Im not sure who would in the right mind remove the fan but none the less i don't see how it works without the fan when mine didn't and a dozen other users here had similar problems.
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i would be concerned with the functioning of the compressor if the differences are drastic.
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Down here in the dealer shop I have seen the effects of just the AUX fan not working... Head pressure shooting up to 400+ psi and all cooling capacity lost. Throw a new fan in there and pressures go normal and cooling perfectly.
And just about every time I get a vehicle in that blows cool on the left and warm on the right it is a low refrigerant charge. Getting it to the proper charge level does get it blowing cold as it should be, but is only step one of the diagnosis... Step two is figuring out where you lost the refrigerant. Looking for leaks isn't as easy as it seems, and not all techs are good at it. |
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The AC system is designed with this fan in mind to cool the condensor. When that fan is no longer in the equasion the condensor cooling becomes extremely inefficient and the condensor temperature rises substantially causing higher pressures, which casue higher temps, which cause higher pressures etc. It climbs up pretty damn high and pretty effectively kills the cooling potential of the evaporator by raising the pressure and temperature of the evaporator as well.
Keep in mind that AUX fan is mounted directly to the condensor while the main engine fan is not only smaller, but has a viscous coupling so doesn't move as much air, and the air it moves has many cooling fins to pass through and many air spaces to pull air from besides the condensor. |
thanks. the thermal runaway is understandable if there is insufficient cooling for the condenser. however, the engine fan seems much more powerful to me in sucking air thru the condenser than what the pusher fan could do. nevertheless, the engine fan alone may not be sufficient to cool the condenser for the ac to cool well esp if the car is stationary plus ambient temp is hot. i wonder why some other makes does not need a pusher fan (more efficient design for heat exchange?) and how one e53 owner could live with his pusher fan removed.
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The system was designed with this pucher fan in mind, and the whole system takes less than one lb of refrigerant anyways so it is more suceptible to these changes in temperature and pressure than bigger systems with 2-3 times the refrigerant capacity.
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this seems to be the case, ie the ac cooling capacity of the e53 is not exactly superb. i noticed that my e53 ac works ok up to an ambient temp of 113 but really struggles when ambient temp hits 122 which happened just 2 days back. at 122, the ac was completely unable to cool when the X is stationary.
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Well, that is a higher temp than most of the world reaches... and who really expects the engineers in Germany to think of the rest of the world?
Just be glad you don't live in an excessively cold climate where the crankcase venting system freezes and blows out the gaskets pushing all your oil on the streets... |
Wow, such an informative thread :thumbup: I too have fallen victim to a dodgy A/C, with cool temps on the drivers side and warmer temps towards the passenger- from what i have read, would i be correct to say that the things to be checked would be: - aux fan - freon levels - refrigerant charge should checking these 3 things yield positive results? (its starting to get REAL HOT in the NY area haha) |
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According to Wikipedia, R-134a will no longer be used in new cars in Europe starting in 2011: 1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia |
anyone tried bypassing the pusher fan sensor trigger to keep the pusher fan running all the time when the engine is on?
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Just posting in case it helps someone else with this simple thing I overlooked.
In Spring I noticed that my Air Conditioning was not working (blowing warm air). It was the auxiliary fan as I learned that it would be from this board. In my case the auxiliary fan was just unplugged due to some work that happened over the winter (I forgot to plug it back in after doing the Oil Filter Housing gasket replacement). Plugged it back in and now AC works great! There are two plugs for the auxiliary fan on the passenger side of the vehicle by the radiator fan. |
I suspect that there is actually only one plug for the A/C Aux fan??
Also I like Rockmelons question, has anyone tried "bypassing" the Aux fan.... or even instally a "universal" fan? |
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My A/C went out a few weeks ago driving in my 2003 3.0 after there was a slightly burnt sweet smell coming from vents. Air was still coming out, but it was no longer cold. I assumed it was r134 that needed to be added but when I looked in the engine compartment, the a/c belt was sitting on the splash cover. After finding that, I assumed that the belt was the only issue. Well I replaced it today and upon first starting the car, there was a strange sound and then a shower of bits of rubber which I believe came from the compressor pulley. Also, the a/c still only blows warm air after relaxing the belt. The aux fan kicks in when the car is running but there is a noticeable click sound when you activate the A/C (snowflake) button. I'm going to take it to an A/C shop this weekend to get the levels checked but I don't think that's the problem. Any thoughts? |
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That's what I suspected.....is this something I can do myself?
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