More sunroof drain problems!
 

I've recently purchased a 2000 4.4i and am delighted with the car. However over the last few weeks I've discovered that (and it was mainly during a recent torrential downpour) that my car is suffering from a problem with the sunroof drain - this manifested itself by water pouring from both A-pillars onto the vents and controls on the dash and into the footwell which by the end of downpour was completed soaked (and I am slowly drying out).

I've followed the excellent advice on this website but I still have the problem. To give you an idea of where I've got to....

I've removed the A-pillar cover and checked the tubing which didnt appear to be crimped and I have tried cleaning the tubes. However there are couple things that lead me to think that it's not simply a crimped or blocked hose.

1. After cleaning the tube when I tested the drain by pouring water into the hole in the sunroof the water appeared to pour straight out through drain in to the car (where the A-pillar would have joined the headliner) none came out of the drain tube.

2. When i fed the wire through to clean the tube it did not appear out of the end of the tube that runs down the A-pillar (although I fed plenty of wire down). So the wire must have been going somewhere else??

This leads me to conclude that the tube must fit on to the drain somewhere in the roof of the car (which I dont think i can see without removing the headlining) and that possibly this has come loose. If so how do i refit it? Do I need to take the headlining off?

And I was wondering whether there is possibly a drain tube that runs to the back of the vehicle and somehow the front and the rear tubes have become disconnected (although there's no evidence of any leaks in the back).

I would appreciate anyones help with this since it doesnt seem as straightforward to fix as simply cleaning the tube - or maybe I am doing something wrong. :(

I dont want to risk any water coming into the car again and screwing the electrics. And we're planning on using the car for a two week family holiday so I am tempted to tape shut the sunroof while we're away to avoid a repeat of the situation last time.

Any help or guidance is much appreciated.

Thanks

The sunroof channel is connected to 4 drain hoses- 2 front and 2 rear. The fronts drain down through the a-pillar and out the bottom of the car just inboard of the seam between the front fender and door. If you pour water into the sunroof channel, it should almost immediately drain out onto the ground. Sounds like your hose is disconnected from the sunnroof. The entire sunroof cassette comes out in one piece and that's the only way to get at the hoses to reconnect.

Oh one other thought to try. What if you take a smaller piece of hose, say a fuel line size about 2 feet long, and feed it down into the opening in the sunroof channel. Feed it about a foot down, then pour some water into this hose. Wonder where it will come out. Maybe if your hose is disconnected, but still directly adjacent to the channel tube, this will straddle the disconnected area enough to test the theory.

Two caveats:
Be very careful when feeding piece of wire down the drain tubes. Sometimes if the hose is loose but still connected to the sunroof cassette, the end of the wire being forced in there will dislodge the hose.

Second and far more important- there are airbags all over these cars! My X5 has airbags in both a-pillars. forcing a wire in there and not knowing where it's going is a very risky thing to do. You may be poking holes in your airbags. If you can't see the wire, stop immediately.

Thanks for the advice TowX. I will have a look again. I like the idea of feeding a second narrower tube through a seeing whether that helps.

I think the hose was already dislodged before I started fiddling around with it, the amount of water I had coming through during the rain storm was horrendous. It was if there were two running taps either side of the car!!!

Good advice on the airbags. I can see the A-pillar one clearly with the cover removed. I was pretty careful when I put the wire down and in any case it seemed to go somewhere other than down the A-pillar which is rather odd.

Taking the sunroof cassette looks like a non-trivial task though. What would be involved in doing this?

I haven't taken my own sunroof out since I'm under warranty, but mine had to be pulled to install the new a-pillar drain tubes that were kinked from the factory. Not sure how involved it is, but the shop foreman at my dealer said that's the only way to replace or reattach the hoses.

In the meantime you can do what I did while waiting for the hoses to get to the dealer. I used painters tape and taped the sunroof channel over. X5 could then sit out in the rain and not drip a bit. But be careful to not leave the tape on too long or the adhesive will be difficult to get off the paint (don't ask how I know.) Or park the car with the nose pointing uphill so all the water will drain to the rear tubes. Fortunately my driveway is sloped so I could do that.

FWIW- the sunroof drain hoses have been an ongoing problem for the X5. My shop foreman said it is extremely common which is amazing on such an expensive vehicle.

Thanks again. I've had another look. I've not got another piece of tube to test your theory. But I've opened up the headlining a bit more and pulled out the light above the sunshade and when I fed the wire through the drain again it came out through the hole where the light fitted. So it's pretty clear where the problem lies.

Hopefully it's not a case of a new sunroof cassette. I think it's just refitting the drain tubes. I am going to have a scan on the net to see if anyone's removed the headlining.

My cars well out of warranty territory but I may visit the dealer and see what they say. If it is such a common problem then maybe there's something they will do...

It does sound like the drain hose is loose from whichever corner is leaking. On the front corners, with the a-pillar cover removed, also remove the grab handle (2 t20 screws under flip covers), remove the visor and catch (3 screws on visor base and 2 under flaps on catch) and the felt flocked gasket around the inside opening of the sunroof (easily pulls off/slips on) or metal trim ring if fitted (lots of T10 torx from the top, need to pull the glass for some). There is also 1 more screw under the center cluster with the map lights etc. You should now be able to easily pull down the front corner of the headliner (lips over the inner door seal slightly). The white plastic corner piece has a drain coming off of it, and you should be able to see with a flashlight into the hole where the tube slipped back into. I can usually gently pull it back onto the drain with slim needle nose pliers (it actually has pull tabs, you'll see it on the bottom of the hose). And that should do it!

This can be done at all 4 corners if needed, but I would test each corner individually with pouring water directly into the sunroof drain channel as you already did.

And with the carpet, it has molded foam molded to it, and pretty thick. It acts like a sponge. You'll think you have it dry, but its saturated underneath. A word of advise with the wet carpet would be to remove the door sill and unbolt and move back the whole seat (leave it plugged in to avoid airbag light) and lift up the carpet from the split foreward to see just how wet it is and you can continue drying from there. Take note of the rear floor ac vent coming through the rear of the front section of carpet when lifting. Feel free to message me with any further questions.

Great. Thanks for the advice. I'll give that a go on the headliner. Sounds like that will do the trick and shouldnt be too complicated.

As for the carpet I've just checked it and you're right. It feels dry to the touch but push down and you can feel the damp underneath. Sounds like a job for the weekend!

Thanks again!

Update...

....following weasel56's advice I managed to release enough of the headliner to get at the hoses and the drains. As suspected they had both come off. So I fed them back on which was easy enough to do. Then I tested them by pouring water through the drains.

Both hoses worked fine and water drained through them and out of the bottom of the car behind the front wheel arches as expected.

However there was still a stream of water coming from the passenger side on the left (I'm in the UK). This wasnt coming from the the hose or from around the connector.

After further exploration I found that the water was now coming from a different area altogether.

The water now comes from a appears to be a sleave that partially covers the underside of a flat metal collar (about an inch and half wide) that looks like it runs around the underside of the sunroof cassette. This collar runs along the front of the sunroof (parallel with the windscreen) but where it bends to run parallel with the side of the sunroof it sort of twists down and back in to a sleeve in the rest of the sunroof mechanism.

The water appears to be leaking from between the metal frame and this sleeve. I've attached a photo (apologies for the poor focus) which I hope explains this better than my description.

So one step forwards two back. Looks like I've fixed the simpler problem but this one looks a bit trickier.

Any thoughts on a fix or am I looking at a cassette replacement...???

Thanks
PTE

At the dealer we would replace the sunroof cassette, but that costs a heck of a lot... What I would do myself in this case would be to thoroughly clean and dry the area of the leak, and apply a good sealer to the area of the leak, taking care not to get excess sealer anywhere else. The spot in question might be accessible from the top with the glass back, but you may have to remove the whole sunroof to get to it...

To do that, you would need to fully remove the headliner. (tight fit, but slides out of the back once taken down) Then remove the whole sunroof cassette. To remove it you would first remove the glass by carefully removing the rubber flaps on each side of the glass on the interior to access the 3 T25 screws on each side ,then the glass lifts right out. (when reinstalling, you have to hold the glass at the correct height when tightening these for adjustment purposes, or else wind noise) The outer edge of the sunroof assembly has some 10mm bolts holding it up, 13 of them if I remember right. Unplug the motor at the front center and unhook the drain hoses you ironically just put on, and the whole thing comes right out. (note that this job is easier with a second set of hands around) Then it can be put on the ground, saw horses, etc. and you have full access to everything.

I would definitely try the easier way through the top first, saves a few hours of labor. Just use a fine tip on your adhesive/sealer of choice. I personally use windshield urethane, but that can be hard to come by for an individual, and is quite hard to squeeze out with a standard caulk gun. I would recommend a good automotive sealer like RTV to squeeze down into the crevice.

Thanks again for the advice. I bought some flexible silicon sealant. I cleaned the area on top of the sunroof and as much as I could reach below. Then I fed as much sealant as I could in to the area where the leak was coming from on each side of the sunroof. I also cleaned the drainage channels on the top and sprayed some ptfe lubricant in which I hope will help the water run away more effectively.

Once the sealant had dried I tested it again with water. And partial success. The drivers side is 'so far' dry and no leaks :thumbup:. The passenger side though will need more work since the water still poured out from around the area I thought I had sealed.

I also bound the drainage hose with wire so it would not slide off again.

Judging by the effect on the drivers side it does appear that this approach will fix the problem. I'll persevere and have another go at the passenger side - I am hopeful I will sort it out.

Another quick question on lifting the carpet in the footwells. There is a plastic cover that sits over the door sill and the carpet. There doesnt seem to be an obvious way of removing it and I dont want to stress it and break it. How do I take this off?

Thanks
PTE

it is snapped into place with plastic clip pieces that stick straight down into holes in the body. If you have a split end fork style body trim remover, you can pry it up from getting under the outer edge. Otherwise get your fingers under the front inside corner of the sill plate where it meets the kick trim, pull slightly in towards the center console at the front corner to release a small catch at the kick trim, then firmly lift straight up to release the other clips. They are tight, but usually come out with no problems.

Update II.

Finally managed to plug the leak on the passenger side with plenty of silicon around the bracket where the water was running through. Have used the car for the last couple of days in some very heavy rain and havent seen a drop. :whew: So I've decided it's safe enough now to refit the headliner. Lets hope the fix is good enough.

As for the carpet. As advised, unbolted the seat (surprisingly easy - thought it would be a much more complicated process) and raised as much of the carpet as I could. The foam underneath was saturated and there was sitting water in the floorpan of the car.

I squeezed out and mopped up as much of the water as I could then put newspaper underneath and replaced the carpet to soak up additional. After that raised the carpet again so that air would circulate, turned the heater on full blast and left the car run for a while. That has helped dry the foam out even further.

But it will need a few days in dry high heat (not something we get very often during a British Summer - it's raining and about 18 degrees celsius today) to really dry out. However it's lot better than it was and doesnt feel sodden to the touch.

At least I can now go on holiday later this week with some hope that we're not going have water pouring down the A-pillars into the footwell as I did a few weeks back. Not much fun 500+ miles from home with the family in tow....

Thanks to all the advice folks. As someone said it's pretty poor form on a car that was circa £50K new to have such a design flaw. :shakehead:

Also (didnt mention first time round since this problem was occupying me far more) replaced the FSR too. The aircon had become erratic and I was worried about a big bill for this until I read on this forum about this common problem. £63(GBP) from the local Stealers and 15 mins to fit myself.

Hopefully that's the end of my problems for the moment. Aside from these issues the car's great. Big 4x4, especially X5's and especially V8 petrols are really out of favour in the UK and as a second hand buy they're great value. Of course it may be more interesting when it's time to sell on but I plan to keep this for a while.

Looking forward to heading off on holiday next weekend. Driving the family to the South of France for a couple of weeks and persuaded SWMBO that we should go through Italy - via the Stelvio Pass and a few of the other interesting driving routes. Cant wait. :driver:

Just fixed mine, I had to use almost a quarter tube of flexible clear caulk, the kind that comes out like play dough. I had to take balls of it and shove it up onto the rail and plug up every hole. This was a serious design flaw. I dont see how everyones sun roof wont leak at some point. I'll shoot some pics after its all dry so people in the future can see what needs to be plugged up. May even do a write up.

Anywhere on the track that has holes is somewhere water isn't supposed to go really... If the sunroof surround seal is old/worn enough to have excessive space between it and the glass it can let too much water in and overflow the water drainage system in a hard rain, and/or if the bottom of the sunroof drains are clogged or even partially blocked hindering the water flow it will do the same thing. Usually it is just a matter of throwing a new seal on it and clearing the drains, and you have many leak free years.

i recently noticed that the footwell on the front passenger side of the car gets soaked after it rains?i would think that its the pillar along the windshield but get this, only the flat part of the flow gets wet.the ramp stays perfectly dry and i can't see signs of water dripping anywhere

Put a hose spraying the door glass and check at the bottom edge of the door panel for water on the inside. The vapor barrier can come loose over time (or not properly reinstalled after work in door) and water leaks into the floor right over the door sill.

sounds like a good reason considering i did have to take off the door panel due to windows problems a few times.i also noticed water in select places.i also took a pic of the sunroof, is it draining properly?is the drain suppose to be somewhere in the circled area?

The first couple pics in the door jamb don't show any problems, that is the harness to the door. If water is pooling in the front of the sunroof cassette that is indicative of the drains being clogged. You need to get those drains unclogged.

found the water leak.passenger side.now the question is the solution?would it leak this way because its clogged or does the drain need to be repaired?

Yes, that is the leak that would be caused by the drain being clogged. I'll say it again... take the fender liner loose and clear the bottom of the drain!

Weasel

Your a life saver.

I followed your instructions re dismantleing the headliner and there it was! The hose had came off the sunroof cartridge and water was going straight down the A pillar.

A quick clean of the hose which was partially blocked and refitted.

Sorted and Dry!

After all the problems I had last year re dual axel air suspension I was fearing the worst (new sunroof cartridge)

I can't praise you enough.

Thanks

how did you go about dismanteling it?I began by prying out the side of the pillar closest to the door.i can see the airbag and the drain but can't get the cover off it's self. It seems that its being held down either some where by the HPF logo or the part where it meets the dash at windshield is holding it in. Any suggestions?