Help, x5 running strange
 

Ok, so first off I have an 01 X5 with the 3.0 and Auto. 107K miles.

Last week I accidently put in regular unleaded (was tired and not thinking), only about 1/4 of a tank when I realized it and stopped.

2 days after that I was in line at a drive thru, when all of a sudden my X5 started shaking. When I would accelerate, it was bogged down and it had no horsepower. RPMs were reving high until it hit about 4th gear it then felt smoother. At every stop light it was shaking though.

I went straight to the gas station, put 93 octane fuel, and it went away. I didn't siphon out the old gas. It did again yesterday, so today I put in an octane booster with more 93 octane fuel, and it still does it. It will only start to do it when its stopped, and usually goes away after driving a bit, but then will come back after a while of being stopped (like at a traffic light). When it happens, it accelerates like if there is no air going in or a clogged injector...not sure...just bogged down is the only way to describe it. The shaking is only when I'm stopped.

What could be the problem??? It was running great prior to that, but now I don't know what to do? Any ideas what it could be????

:dunno: :wow:

Well, it is very unlikely that it has anything to do with your quarter tank of regular fuel.

Get the codes read, at a dealer or independent shop. That is what the self-diagnostics are for. They will at least point you in the right direction.

give it an little tune-up, ( new spark plugs, air filter, fuel filter)
and get a code reader, check for misfire

100K is tuneup time (new spark plugs,etc) - has this been done? - maybe that quarter tank had water in it? - high ethanol gas sometimes results in what you describe - tried that stuff once and it took 3 tankfuls to clean it out and get back to better mileage and performance

looks like a misfire is exactly what I've got. I got the following codes from a basic OBDII reader.

P0300
P1353
P1351
P1083
P0171
P0300P

2 of those are lean fuel, the others have to do with misfires. Any ideas what this could be? Could it be simple, or is it for sure a really bad situation?

:wow:

P0300 and P0300P Random Multiple Misfires
P1353 Misfire Cylinder 6 With Fuel Cut-off
P1351 Misfire Cylinder 5 With Fuel Cut-off
P1083 Fuel Control Mixture Lean (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
P0171 System Too Lean Bank 1

you might also have a vacuum leak. Vacuum leaks can give all these codes. Check vacuum hoses in engine.

I had a the same problem a while back on my 01. I found it was the air ilde control unit. It's a little black box located in the drivers side on the engine. About 2.5 inches by 6 inches long. It has a sensor hooked up to it. It is very easy to replace..about 10 minutes. The part is a bmw only part and if I remember correctly its about 135. If you pull the part out and look at it there is a round flapper valve looking thing with a arm to make it move. Just by looking at it you will know if it is broken or not. Hope that helps. I was getting the same codes you were.

I have an '05 X5 with 130,000 miles (yes, I am the original owner). I would advise changing your fuel filter and looking at the plugs. In the future you may want to look at a regular schedule of TECHRON every 3,000 miles with your regular maintence.

As while the idle control valve can act like a vacuum leak, the part you just described is the "DISA flap" and controls the variable intake runner legnth system. The idle control motor is the same one used in other BMW models, the lil silver can just above the throttle body.

culthero, also check the smaller branch of the intake boot to the throttle body/idle control, it has a habit of cracking in the turn giving unmetered air to the system. And check the "cyclone valve" crankcase vent valve. It is under the intake. With the engine running rough at idle, use a can of throttle body cleaner with the red tube and spray down areas you suspect for vacuum leaks, the engine will smooth out and idle higher when the leak is sprayed.

thanks
 

Thanks for all the great advice! I'll try a couple of those things, if I can't figure it out, I've got an appointment with a BMW tech next friday. I'll update when I get it figured out.


:thumbup:

So is it #7 or #8 that I might need?

#8 is the idle control motor... come to think of it, I'd might even have an extra one laying around in my toolbox. (probably was sticking from carbon and cleaned up back to full working order)

#7 is the DISA flap, which controls the variable intake runner length.

I would check the smaller hose on the throttle boot that goes to #8 as it tends to crack between the ridges on the outer radius of the turn... just stick your fingers back there and feel for splits in the hose. (one of many common likely causes)

Misfire code
 

I have a misfire code before. I took it to the BMW service center.
They changed the MAF, doesn't help, they further change all spark plugs, no use.
Eventally, they replaced the coil and the breather valve, it fixed the problem.
Totally, it cost me US$2500 for something that could be fix with US$300

Can the DISA cause misfiring and the rough idle I am experiencing? X5 stalled when i let off the brakes and let it coast. Won't stall if completly stopped or driving, but still idles very rough at a stop.

The disa flap should not cause the rough running/missfiring. It sounds like you have a big vacuum leak, most likely at the oil separater/crankcase vent valve. That is the one undder the intake manifold, towards the front... near the oil filter housing. Thats what the big plastic hose coming off of the front corner of your valve cover goes to under the intake.

When that part fails, it gives a big vacuum leak and burns more oil. With the engine running at idle, open the oil cap on the valve cover. It is supposed to have a slight vacuum, but if it feels like a vacuum cleaner is sucking on it... that narrows it down to just that oil separator cyclone valve.

First of, thanks so much for you help. It's really helping me narrow this down.
:thumbup:

So I removed and cleaned DISA, it was ok, a lil bit of normal deposits on it, but it still had the rough idle once the engine got warmed up. Sprayed hoses around where you told me to do so and nothing.

At this point I"m assuming it can't be spark plugs or wires since when I turn the engine off, it starts up ok. It's after a little while of ideling that the rough shaking begins. Hope I'm right?

I also did what you said by removing the oil filler cap while it at a rough idle. Well, it had more of a vacuum suck to it once the idle was rough than it did when it was not rough. Not sure how much is normal?

What I did find out is that after a while, I left it in drive, removed the oil filler cap, and all of sudden my RPMs dropped, it started shaking even more to point where it wanted to stall. As soon as I put the cap back on, it was still a rough idle, but not as bad and my rpms went back up. Also, it idles even rougher in the following order from most to least: reverse - drive - park/neutral.

Any more ideas?? I would greatly appreciate them! Thanks again for your help!

:thanks::beerchug:

Sorry for the bump....any ideas weasel56 or anyone else?

check and cleaned idle ctrl vavle, still getting a rough idle. sprayed and inspected hoses, nothing I can see.

Should spark plugs be my next thing? Is it possible that with bad plugs, it would start up fine, then once it gets warmed up they would start to cause the misfire?

:dunno:

Anything is possible... Especially if you haven't changed them yet at 107k.

Also, since you apparently have a code reader... you can take the misfiring cylinders, switch the coil with a known good one (cyl. without misfire code stored) and the spark plug to another.... clear faults, drive it till they come back. See which one the misfire follows. If it stays put, swap the injector with another and try again. That's just one way to figure out what component is giving you the trouble.

But just changing the spark plugs is a safe place to start, simply because you're due for them at 100k anyways... and the whole spraying the hoses trick to find vacuum leaks works great with substantial vacuum leaks, but not with the smaller ones. The computer compensates for it really quick. If your code reader has "data flow" you can read the upstream O2 sensor voltages. At idle at operating temperature they should switch in the range between 0.2 and 0.8 volts about every second. spray it all down with the cleaner while reading this, when you hit the tiny little leak, the voltages will stick at 0.8 volts for a few seconds. That's how I gotta track them down sometimes...

I thought I had a bad IAC valve on my Nissan. After removing it, dissasembling, cleaning the solenoid, and then reinstalling with a new gasket which was a total knuckle buster i realized that it did not solve my erratic idle issues. It ended up being a faulty injector that was working intermittenly for me, though this symptom can be caused by many things.

yep this is how i found my faulty injector before I ended up replacing the entire fuel rail assembly and injector set completely. Not sure if you can do easily on X5 without removing valve cover gaskets but on my Z i could unplug each coil pack one by one, then once you isolate the problem IF you do you can try swapping spark plugs (check to see if its fouled) and then lastly switch injectors (required removing upper plenum on my Z). However, unfortunately when I was installing my new 740cc injectors i didn't realize that one of them ended up being faulty since I had no way of flow testing them so I ended up taking the car to a mechanic. Had I switched the injectors around I would have found the problem moved too.

The fuel rail isn't that hard to get off on the 3.0i, easier than the Z for sure! Just the microfilter bulkhead (4 torx screws) and the plastic engine covers. (2 10mm bolts/nuts each). Then just unclip the extra harness shit from the top of it, and the front sensor wire... then the 4 10mm bolts that hold down the rail itself.

But hopefully all it is will be the overdue sparkplugs...:whew:

Ya I saw a write up on the valleypan replacement and I was surprised at the ease in which the fuel rails comes out. I have to say this engine looks like a dream to work on compared to the VG30DETT on my Z (even after i did all the stupid throttlle body water line deletes that intricately lined the underside of the upper plenum. I still have nightmares about this :(

I will try plugs next and post results

So, I put in new plugs, and the problem was still there. So I then swapped the coils off of cyl 5 & 6 with 1 & 2. Still have the same rough idle issues on the same cylinders. Got my codes reread:

P0313
P0300
P1353
P1351
P0171
P0313P
P0300P

Before the new plugs and swapping of coils....I had the following:

P0300
P1353
P1351
P1083
P0171
P0300P

Any more ideas or am I at the mercy of a BMW Tech now? :dunno::wow:

The weird thing is that if I turn it on and drive off and not ever stop for longer than a short stop sign....it will run and idle fine. As soon as I stop a a traffic light for instance...it will start to idle rough. Sometimes it even goes away after driving for a bit, stop a a short light its fine...then after stopping at a longer traffic light...it will come back.

If you get tired of trying to figure it out yourself, then hopefully you would only have to pay the BMW techs once... Just make sure they drive it enough to make sure its gone and doesn't come back! Even if it does, bring it back to them saying its doing the exact same thing and they should stand by their work and go at it again. If they try to make ou buy more parts, tell them you already paid to have this problem fixed once, and they missed... not you!

Otherwise, keep plugging along! But these problems can be a bitch to find sometimes...

I think I might have a faulty injector(s) after all.

Last night I cleared my codes, drove home, it started shaking and the codes came back.

This morning I start up my X, the codes are cleared, and I decide to drive to work, but instead of being idle at traffic lights, I put my X in Neutral, and revved up to about 1K RPMs. I never let it idle on its own. I was able to drive about 20 miles to work without it hesitating and without any codes coming back on.

Can I swap injectors without swapping the entire rail? If so..how hard is it?

I'm really not ready to give up yet.

Once you pull your fuel rail off, the metal clips that hold the injectors to the rail will be easy to pop off. After that, just wiggle and pull the injectors out. They just push in with o-rings and are held in place with the clips. Just BE SURE the clips are fully/properly seated when you put it back together. And the o-rings should be the same size as most multiport fuel injection systems. (bosch style injectors)... so if you want to replace them you can go to the local parts store and get them.

Some people even use 5.0 mustang injectors in old 318ti's as an upgrade...

Awesome! Thanks!

Is there any precautions I need to take before pulling off fuel rail other than d/c the battery? Any lines I need to remove and clip shut or anything?


Thanks again for all the help!

The fuel supply line to the rail has a quick disconnect, sometimes they're tricky, most of the time it comes right off as designed. Should be easy.

Sorry but I will not be able to reply for a while after this... will likely lose power for about a week with gustav. damn weather!

I hope you are doing well with gustav hitting your area. I again appreciate all your help on this issue

Ok, so here is what is new. Before swapping fuel injectors, I put a bottle of Lucas Fuel Injector cleaner. It runs great with a half bottle of the stuff. As soon as its done with the cleaner in the tank, the misfire comes back. But I can put half a bottle into the gas tank (about half full tank of gas ) and it will run and idle great with no rough idle at all, even at a traffic light! So what gives? A mechanic I know told me he thinks its a bad O2 sensor based off what I told him, he hasn't actually seen or test driven the vehicle. Any ideas on why the fuel injector cleaner clears up the misfire?

hi wessel
 

I do have the c ode p1353 and its not the coil or the spark or the injector ......any others ideas? I could take the car to the dealer but last time they replaced the throttle control fixing this code ,they were wrong and I paid for it.

If you've already ruled out coil, plug and injector by cross swapping then the next step is to check signals to those components with a oscilloscope and compression test/leakdown test. If you have an 04 and up V8 it could be valvetronic related as well... if all else fails pay for professional diagnosis.

Thank you ,Weasel
it's a 2002 4.6 and I will take it to the dealer cause I have no other way to check the issue.I hope they will get it ,beside I made it easier for them by crossing the spurk,coil and the. Injector.Thank again