Oil separator/Valve cover gasket
 

WTF is going on I changed my oil separator last month and valve cover gaskets 2 days ago and today there was oil squirted all over under my hood, looks like it came from oil filler cap. This happened after I started it in -15C today. Checked oil an it is low and some milky stuff on dipstick. There's also oil dripping on the ground from driver side. Did the separator fail again??? I'm so ready to sell this f-ing thing!

Did you clean out all the hoses when you replaced the separator? Sounds like redo.

At about 5 degrees fahrenheit it may have just frozen again... did you replace the lines as well with the separator?

Sorry to hear about your problems. :(

Keep venting here, it'll help, then when you're ready to get back on the horse ...

Listen to these guys and they'll be able to help with your situation.

Good Luck getting the X fixed! :thumbup:

The hose update is much more important for folks like you in super cold climates.

You have to think of separator problems like the cold virus. Disinfecting your fork and your knife is great, but if you put it back on your infected plate, or whichever combination you do if you do not do all three, you are just going to have to do it all over again.

Additionally, from reading the posts of people in cold places, if you do not let the car warm up on short trips, this seems to overcome the system and hasten failure, even of new parts.

You will get it worked out.

Thanx for all the responses...

Yes, I changed the hoses too. And my trip to work is about 20 km each way, so even in -15 C that day, it warmed up a fair bit.

I'm starting to think I put the hoses back wrong. Does the top one on the separator connect to the valve cover? Other then that, maybe there's just a lot of moisture still in there from before?

I lost about 2 litres of oil that day and the whole underbody, including the rear mufflers, was COVERED in oil! Seems to have no leaks now when starting in the garage though.

I think I might just top it off again and keep driving it.

Pipes .. check out this thread:

http://www.xoutpost.com/x5-e53-forum/...=oil+separator

It has pics on post #13 from lo_jack. Hope that helps.

Sorry to hear about your problems... I know all about it since i'm a past victim too. In your cold climate, you may wish to switch to 0w - 40 oil in the colder months.. That might help..

cool. Mine is actually a 4.4i, but I did find the diagram for the separator for the 4.4i on realoem.com. It seems like the top one goes to valve cover, but off a DIY I found on here it looks like the bottom one goes there! I'm not too sure now, or if it even makes a difference. Can anyone confirm?

i had my oil seperator replaced also. the main advise i got from this forum which proved to be most valuable is "don't drive the thing till its fixed."
It saved my engine and i hope it will save yours.

Crap looks like I misread the diagram. Looks more like the bottom hose on the separator goes to valve cover. Sh%t! I hope this makes a difference!

UPDATE: Reversed the hoses to the proper side and topped off oil. Everything runs good untill it was -25C today. So I drive to work and it's all good. Then after work, I start it up and no leaks for about a minute so I drive home (20 minutes) and when I pull into the garage, oil is dripping BAD on the floor!! I pop the hood and there's smoke and oil all around the oil cap!

So I think whats going on is that pressure is still building up in the crank case and has no where to go. So it comes out the path of least resistance which is the oil cap appearently.

I changed the oil separator but there still seems to be a blockage of some sort. Any ideas? Bad separator again? Is there another PCV valve somewhere?

Jeez..what a nightmare.... I'm not sure what's going on. If you hooked everything up right, it shouldn't be doing that. I say take it to a good shop and have them take a hard look at it...At this point it seems like a good move.

Sure makes me glad to live in the mild wintered south... wore shorts today.

Alright Pipes. Out of all of the post on here yours sounds exactly like mine is right now. I started it on a cold day got the dreaded "burp", valve cover started leeking. Ordered the parts and while waiting for them to come in was driving and same thing happened to me with the oil everywhere one morning. Lost about four quarts, my oil seems to be all down the sides of the intake, on the top of the motor. This puzzles me because as far as I know the are no oil lines in that area to speak of. When I took the separator off the hoses they were not busted, making me wonder even more where did this HUGE leak all of a sudden come from. Now, after finally getting the valve covers off and the separator off I kept looking and found that the hose that connects to the bottom of the rear intake cover and goes to the return tube was mush and had come disconnected from the cover. This hose connection could not be in a worse place I am certain. Check that hose. And if it is the same in your case maybe someone can tell us, or atleast me if I can take the rear cover off to get to it and be able to put it back on with out having trouble with the vent pipe that goes through the intake from front to back, or if we/I have to stand on my head on the motor to try to get to the connection! Also, when I took the hose off of the back of the intake cover that goes back to the separator, there was oil/water mix that I can see down in the intake cover connection tube. Is that supposed to be there? Should it be draining down to the return tube? Or does the mixture flow back the other way back to the separator from there and will clear once everything is back together and started?

Hopefully someone knows the answer to these questions and has come across this before. I believe there is at least one BMW tech on here that my be able to shed some light!

The moisture (water) in the tubes is what freezes and causes the crankcase vent valve (oil separator) to freeze/stick in one place. Sometimes it gets froze open, sometimes closed. But that is why you had the oil problem.

There are updated hoses and valve for extreme cold climates that are insulated/heated that you should look into.

I know the water is not supposed to be there, but should there be any liquid setting in that down tube or should that have drained back down through the hose to the return tube? If it should have been draining back down, or as it is now without the hose on it, out of the intake cover. And if so I am assuming that I have a blockage in the cover at the oil return tube connection. What do you think? I thought maybe it could have a check valve if you will that would not open to let it flow out unless the system is pressurized. I don't know, I am thinking I am going to have to remove the rear intake cover to get a better look. Do you know if that would pull out the vent tube that runs through the intake to the front cover? I guess at worst if it did I would have to remove the front also.

I'm tempted to just disconnect the hose that goes to the valve cover so the pressure can escape! The X5 worked fine this way last winter when there where tears in the hoses! I never lost any oil all winter either!

I'm having way more problems now that I replaced the hoses and separator...

The separator system is obviously sh&t in cold climates. Even better I say just put a breather filter on the valve cover so pressure and water vapour can escape from there (this is done on other vehicles too). That should probably fix it, what do you guys think?

UPDATE 2
 

Ok I calmed down now and went to the stealer to talk to them about it and appearently they had an X5 there they were repairing with the same problem ($3000 later).

So their repair information states to also change another part. It's called a "cover", it's the part the other hose of the oil separator connects to and is the back (opposite of throttle body) cover on the intake manifold.

They called the repair a "cyclone valve" repair. I had a look at the cover yesterday and I found it was full of water. I don't think this is normal. It's probably freezing and not allowing the gases to return to the intake, and back to cumbustion chamber where they are burned. Instead they're just building up in the crank case. I'm changing the part this week so we'll see what happens!

Still following this thread. It just pains me to hear about your probs. Specially after you've done all the proper stuff only to find there's something else!

Hoping this last one will do it for ya Pipes! :thumbup:

Hey Pipes what year is your 4.4i, what engine, and how many miles?

hey guys this is my first post ...

just bought a 2000 X5 4.4i loaded, every option ... even a vhs player in the back for the kids. 71,856 miles ... for $10,500 ... pretty good deal

BUT yep there is always a but with german cars

Ive had the car exactly a month and i have already been a victam of propbably the two most common winter X5 issues

1. door handles/lock/latches freezing ... easy fix
A. park it in the sun
B. spray the the inside of the door with anti freeze once every other week
c. carry a can of lock de icer in the car

2. the oil seperator ... a night mare ... so there i was driving along on the merritt parkway, and i start to smell something burning, open the hood oil everywhere

take the x5 to the new bmw of west springfield mass

right away they new what it was, left it there for a week, the replaced the seperator and the something to do with the valves ... now that im reading i guess i should have had them replace the hoses as well, with some that are more winterized ...

cost me $1,100 (with all my discounts, damn germans) and forced me to drive the 911 turbo a few times in the snow

besides changing the hoses ... do you guys know anyway i can prevent this from happening again?

anyone have a link to which hoses i should be using?

BTW i was told never ever ever ever to drive if this happens agein, "driving like this is a quick way to kill the car"

most likely the hoses were replaced when they replaced oil separator. check your paperworks. it should say something like oil separator/crankcase vent hoses. it's #4, 5 here

not sure if they did an oil change for you as well. but check your engine oil cap and dipstick to see if you have the yellowish cheese like stuff. if you see it, get an oil change too.

I would imagine all the related hoses would have been replaced. Your car has the M62 engine which involves installing the heated wrap, etc. it's a pretty involved job. In any case could you post all the info from your invoice such as the part descriptions and numbers. BTW, can you post some pictures of the VHS player setup? (Launch a new thread for it)

yeah i want to see this vhs player too.

Damn, I got the same thing, oil separator and/or hoses froze and I need to replace the separator and hoses that are designed for winter conditions, also the valve cover gaskets needs to be replaced.
But, the Service Advisor said that the cylinder heads needs to be taken out and flushed/washed just in case the oil gel/foam has gone inside the channels and if not done it may cause serious trouble when the channels get stuck.
I quess this may happen if the oil gel/foam ends up to oil pan when oil separator is not working properly when it is frozen.
Haven't seen that anyone else have made this kind of repair.

FIXED!! (knock on wood)
 

So It's been a couple weeks now no problems, including a -20C day. So I took the intake manifold off to replace the culprit rear cover, which is pretty much a super-sophisticated PCV valve. Also found the oil return hose rotted off.

I broke apart the old rear cover to check it out, and the diaphram inside looked cracked in some areas, hence why it wasn't working.

Well so far so good!

Total parts needed:

1. Rear intake manifold "cover" (PCV valve/diaphram) & gasket
2. Oil separator and hoses
3. Oil return hose
4. Valve cover gaskets
5. Oil & Filter!

Now not only is it fixed, but you have a full understanding of how it works! :thumbup:

Interesting that the diaphragm inside was cracked. Must be something BMW has realized since they appear to sell a part called "Repair Kit, Pressure Regulating Valve" It's #13 on the link.

RealOEM.com BMW E53 X5 4.4i Cylinder head cover

UPDATE: Answered my own question. There was a recall on defective crankcase ventilation valves covering N62 engines and called for their replacement due to the cracking diaphragms. The repair kit noted above represents the upgraded parts. See attached SIB 110306 (broken into two attachments due to forum size restrictions) on the recall. "Voluntary Emissions Recall 06E-A02: N62 - Crankcase Ventilation Valves Replacement"

Yeah, those are extra easy though... but only on the valvetronic motor. What Pipes has is this setup, #2.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...81&hg=11&fg=40

Yes exactly. Thanks weasel56. My X5 is a 2001 4.4i (M62) with 156,000 km.

Gotcha. Which one is the diaphragm?

The diaphram is located inside part #2 mentioned above.

Unfortunately I thought I might add that this problem occured again at -22C last week. I think it might be in part to the fact that the system just can't handle extreme temperatures.

What happened is that I pulled over after 5 min to check and found oil dripping. I checked the oil dip stick and oil came blasting out like a fountain, so I quickly replaced the dip stick. Then I slowly releived the crankcase pressure through the oil cap. Took about 2 minutes! I let the pressure come out untill the system eventually thawed out again and was working properly (no more pressure build up coming out from oil cap).

The X5 was then safe again to drive now that the system was functioning properly.

I went home and put a breather filter on the valve cover. I am completely bypassing the oil separator system now and I beleive this is the only solution unless you:

1. Go with the redesigned system from BMW ($5000??)
2. Maybe get the insulated/heated parts from BMW (my dealer didn't have them for the 4.4 just the 3.0)

Another solution would probably be venting the crankcase vapors from the valve cover back to the intake were they can burn (found on most cars).

Damn! So, you're saying after all that you still have this problem. Ayayai! Sorry, to hear and no offense or anything but I'm so glad we don't have that kind of weather here.

I don't know how you're keeping your cool. I'd be lookin to bash something in! Good luck!

Something is definitely screwy here. Pressure obviously shouldn't be that high and given that it is so high it seems to indicate that your system is stuck closed, that the water in the separator has frozen, and pressure building rapidly. My concern about venting the crankcase will an additional mechanism is that each engine has a specific crankcase venting pressure that is designed into it and if you were to deviate significantly from it I really don't know what else might happen. ?

What redesigned system from BMW exists for $5000 ?
The heated wrap was developed for the M62 engine and that's what I'd do ASAP. Let me know if you need the SIB on it. The dealer might have the kit for the 3.0, but the kit is totally different and involves replacing parts, not integrated a heated wrap per se.

Man I feel bad for you.

Good article (short). Also SIB 110308 attached.

BMW Oil Seperator Issue - BMW Service CT

Yeah I heard there was a new system by the dealer to bypass the original separator system. A new design. Maybe it was only $2000 (oops). Nonetheless it was pricey.

Yes the valve is definiteley getting stuck. I don't even drive it for short trips.

The heated parts/insulated parts just seem like a band-aid to the system. After replacing all the original parts, I still had lots of condensation in the new pipes after only about 2-3 weeks. Besides, the insulated parts can only keep the pipes from freezing for a longer period of time.

The heated system may work, but won't this just drain the battery?

Also, the wrap may keep the pipes from freezing, but the water stuck in the diaphram will still freeze and keep it closed/open.

Removing oil cap you can feel with the hand air pushing out no stop , at cold and hot engine ?

Oil separator
 

Does the 02 X5 have this...and where,how and when...to do....I have owned this X5 for a bit over a year now...and have noticed in some of the threads..that some have noticed..sluggishness @ stops...could this be a cause...like @ a traffic signal stop, with air on>

pipes i really feel bad for you and the problem you are having..there is nothing worse than having a car you cant count on but do yourself a favor and get rid of it as fast as you can..trust me brother it is not worth the heartache...from what i see these cars are not designed for the cold weather..i guess in germany it dosent get cold.ha ha.. and german engineers dont know shit about cold weather testing and engineering...

Yes it does have this. As far as sluggish at idle, potentially. How is your mileage? Have you checked your spark plugs for oil/carbon? How about your adjuster unit? Pull that out and look for oily sludge.

There are a lot of factors involved in what you are describing, so you have to rule them out or specifically look into the parts of the system in question.

All X5s are manufactured in North Carolina.

South Carolina

:D My mistake. Not Rykyavik, Oslo, or Siberia though.

We must acknowledge our friends in Greer, South Carolina... my brother.:thumbup:

Ghigo: Well I don't remove the cap completely because oil spits out, but when I unscrew it slightly, yes there is pressure when the valve gets stuck.

Calli: I think the issue exists only on 01-03 X5's. I didn't notice any performance issues, because it works good untill the valve freezes open/closed, then the pressure starts to build up in the crankcase.

cavx5: I totally agree with you. Today was +5C so I quickly re-connected the oil separator (10 secs to reconnect the valve cover pipe back) and it's working perfect again. I'll probably leave it like this if it stays warm, and sell the thing before next winter!!
They definitely were NOT thinking/testing for really cold climates. Hence why I'm shocked BMW does not recall this issue.

Guys,
I was recently a victim of this. While getting on the interstate, I started to accelerate. Then the X5 started to misfire and huge white smoke coming from the tailpipe and the oil pressure dropped to nothing. It was -2 degrees that day. No smoke under the hood but oil was dripping down from under the engine onto the ground. I had to tow to the dealership (after sitting in the car freezing for an hour while waiting for the tow truck). Damn! Stealership verdict: Frozen crankcase ventilation system and blown valve cover gasket. Oil all over the engine, spark plugs has to be replaced, new oil separator crankcase ventilation system, new oil separator hoses, new O-rings, new intake gasket, new oil change and filter. Total cost over 3K!! Yikes!!

SIB 110308 was updated September 2009 to include the N51 and S63 engines and to make a change to the specifications of a number of engines.

For the M42, M44, M52, M52TU, S52 ,M54, M60, M62, M62TU, M73 the specification increased from 10.0 mBar to 13.0 mBar.

For the N52K the specification was decreased from 30.0 mBar to 28.5 mBar.

X5 Meister - You are the bomb!! thank you very much for sharing. I will make sure that the mechanic working on my car is aware of this. I get the car back this coming Tuesday (Dec. 15th). I noticed the whistling sound coming from under the hood when accelerating but had though it was nothing to worry about. It was whistling louder than normal, my buddy even mentioned it to me when I had given him a ride last week. Wish I could have researched it out under this forum and I might have prevented the expensive repair. Lesson learned..unfortunately the hard way.

Damn all these repairs make me nervous. Should I just replace my seperator with the updated one as preventive maintenance? Its an 02 4.4i w/90k. I've never really had anything break before (actually just an axle seal which still leaks) and would like to keep it this way! Knock on wood...

paullymano - make sure you do a thorough search on the the oil separator. There is a ton of info on the board including the SIB's to cover all the X5's. For example see here:

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...under-cpo.html

shooter - you should at least open it up and have a look at it (clean it out, etc) just to be safe. See this thread:

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...-pictures.html

Shooter, it couldn't hurt. There is a great set of BMW Mechanics in South Windsor (NEO Auto) (BMW Oil Seperator - NEO Autos Articles) that can do the work for a more reasonable price.

I've found my local BMW dealer (New Country) to be OK but they are in such a rush to move cars in and out that they are forgetful at times (last time I had the cap of a coolant bottle sitting in my engine compartment)

Chris

OK, so I had the engine blow out last winter, in January. Dealer replaced oil separator, dipstick tube, several gaskets and all worked just fine after.

Fast forward to this morning, my wife calls me and says her car is driving strange. When she started it up, the temp gauge went all the way to hot and then back down to normal. She wanted to know if she should keep driving, I told her to watch the gauge and pull over immediately if it went near the red. I meet up with her and switch cars and bring hers home to investigate.

No unusual temp readings while I am driving, when I get home the oil light comes on. I check the oil level and there is the milky / mayonaise on the dipstick and under the oil cap. There is no oil leaking anywhere on the engine, but I have to add 2 qts to get it back to full.

Here's are my questions...

Is my separator valve freezing up on me again? Is there any other cuase for the milky oil besides the oil separator issues? Could this also be the cause of the unusual temp readings she saw when she first started driving this morning? Do I take the X5 to the dealer for some repairs? There doesn't seem to be anything wrong at the moment, but I'm concerned it is just a matter of time before the engine blows again... temps have been cold this week, in the teens for several days, but today and this morning the temps were not unusually low. Last winter when it blew it was after several days of single digit temps, we're nowhere near that yet...

Thanks Meister. The dealership is repairing the car and I will make sure that they are aware of the all the SIB writen regarding his issue.

Shooter - Listen to the Meister..He's the Man!! If you drive short distances in the extreme cold, I would have it replaced with the new updated parts. Don't go through what I'm going through brother...over 3K of repairs regarding this issue.

Hey guys, dealer quote ~1300 with similar issues. White smoke through vents and out of the front of the hood. Is the repair a permanent fix for this issue? Or should I consider trading it in? At 85k, would be nice to be in something newer and under warranty.

I replaced my Oil Seperator Valve at 55,000 miles and I have not had a problem since. I would highly recommend that if you do end up replacing it to do so with the insulated valve and hoses.

What would happen if you poured SeaFoam into separator hose?
 

I had the dreaded oil separator failure one year ago with my 2003 X5 3.0. Fortunately, it only blew the valve cover gasket and soiled some parts instead of hydrolock. The problem is the water/oil mix which gets recycled back down to the intake manifold or into the crankcase via the oil dipstick tube. If the oil separator (or cyclone unit) is getting clogged, or if the oil dipstick area is clogged with this sludgy stuff, would it help to regularly pour a few ounces of SeaFoam in the breather hose leading down to the oil separator, in the hopes the SeaFoam would dissolve the sludge and keep the hoses and separator more clean? I change my oil every 8K miles, and I still get the sludge. Now 5K oil changes are in order and I hope to get rid of this issue.

FWIW, I received all new parts, including the updated wrapped hoses and new separator. It seems to be bigger than the previous separator, but I still get the sludge and every few days I notice a big puff of white smoke at startup or shortly afterwards.

I did read somewhere that BMW was working on a part that would keep the separator heated. It was on this forum somewhere. A guy that actually got BMW to pay for the repairs. Worth a try...

Thanks for the replies guys, seems like I am in talks with trading this in, which with an injury like this is killing my trade-in value. I always hear never to roll the difference into the new loan either. BMWNA is slow in returning my phone calls too