Question about Secondary Air Pump
 

I have a 2002 BMW X5 3.0 with 65K miles on it. A few days ago, SEG light came on, I checked it with OBD II and it gave me codes P0491 and P0492.

After doing some research on this site, I found that these are due to the failure of the Secondary air pump and the valve. In the threads that I have read, it was mentioned that the valve should be changed first and if the problem is not resloved then the pump should be changed beause it is more expensive.

My question is will the pump work at all if it needs changing?

I noticed that when I start the car on a warm day that the pump will be turned on for around 30 seconds with a very loud noise. Is this supposed to be normal? Would it make any noise or work it is not working and needs changing?

Thank you very much, your help is greatly appreciated.

The pump is suppose to be quiet (somewhat). That is what happened to my pump last year. You could definitely hear that is was on. Swapped a new pump (and valve) and problem solved.

Daniel

A good pump sounds like a small vacuum cleaner running, when the pump starts going out, it sounds like a 10 year old worn out shop vac screamint at you... Also check the vacuum hose to the valve, as it tend to dry and crack from the heat right at the valve.

Another question regarding the air pump
 

Hi,

I have some other questions regarding the secundary air pump. :(

1. Location.
I have a 4.6is (53.000 km's) . Is the pump located just right off the oil fill reservoir for the power steering at the drivers front side under the hood? I See a black cap with a large "bolt"on it (with "max 25nm" on it) and i hear the sound from the air pump just under it. Is that correct? And what is that black circel cap from? Is that the pump or is it located under it?

2. Sound.
I can hear the pump working very good. I can hear it inside of the car like a loud hummmmmm. Definetely too loud, but it's working well. I have no fault codes. When i set the ECC to the minimum the sounds stops! Is that also normal? What can the loud humming mean....is the pump dirty or broken? :dunno:

3. Working
The pump starts working short after the engine is started. About a minute or so. I keeps running for quite a long time. On short trips, when the engine isn't heating up it doesn't go off. Is that normal? It is operating then for about 10 minutes maybey longer.

4. Weather
What's te impact from cold temperatures? Is the working related to the heating of the cat's?

5. Cleaning
Is it a easy to do DIY cleaning the pump (rotor?)? or should i replace it completely

Thanks in advance....i see manny people with questions about the air pump...

Greetz from the Netherlands!
Niels

I am trying to avoid buying the pump because it is pretty expensive (around $500). I was hoping to have the problem fixed by changing only the valve.

I will also check the hose to see if it okay.

Thanks for replying.

I have one more question please:

The valve is connected to engine and the hose runs from it to the pump that is also connected to some other part. All of the parts are on the passenger side of the vehicle. Is this correct? I just want to make sure that I am looing at the right parts.

Thanks again.

a crack in the vacuum hose will get that error, the age of your x seems to point at that. remove the top cover and look for a hose that i think is black with a blue stripe. i was able to trim mine an inch or so cause it was cracked at one end. been error free since early 08. if my secondary air system failed i would just remove it. with an intake on, it doesnt help any anyhow, unless you have the intake in an enclose box like the factory one. (correct me if i'm wrong)

can anyone post a pic
 

Hi,

Can anyone post a pic of the hood.....? Where is that %*&%@&*% pump located?

Greetz,
Niels

I have this issues as well in my '02 3.0i X5. Very timely thread !!

I'm looking to DIY the repair too. The pump is stupid expensive. I remember on the Audi A6 I had, Ipulled the pump and overhauled it myself. Wonder if the same can be done here............. then just purchase the valve.

On second thought, I think I'll check the hose first.


Pictures of all this would be awesome !!

never underestimate real oem.com
 

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...11&fg=50&hl=14

:stickpoke

Based on the diagram from realoem.com:

The valve (#8) is the one that is connected to the passenger side of the engine and the pump (#1) is located on its left and it is connected to the valve through a hose, also another hose is coming out of the top of the pump and it is connected to this other part that is attached to the inside of the front passenger side fender. Please let me know if this is correct so that I would know if I am looking at the right parts.

Thanks again.

for the most part yea. but the hose on the top is connected to the air box (not some other part) which is mounted to the pass side fender and wheel well.

check the vacuum hose under the engine cover.

Thanks for the clarification, I wasn't sure what this other part is called. Now I know it is the "air box".

The vaccum hose that you're referring to under the engine cover is the one that was giving you the problem. How do I check it? should I remove the engine cover?

I am sorry if my questions are dumb but I don't know much and I am trying to learn with the help of people like you. Thanks again.

yea theres a handful of screws holding the cover on. check all the hoses under there, also check the hoses coming in and out of the pump. look for leaks or big cracks. the one i bet youll find broken is under the cover and is black with a blue stripe. thats what i found to be the problem. it may be a different color, but dive in and start checking hoses. (the black one i speak of is the diamater of a straw, not as big as these others in the before mentioned link)

i bet your air filter can use a change too.

actually here's your set up.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...11&fg=50&hl=12

i found a few different setups for the 3.0, anyhow that top hose will feed from your intake.

Thanks I will check it out and post results.

Thanks again.

I had the same problem. I changed the cheap part first...the valve.
I cleared the code and it hasnt come back. Not to say it wont but so far so good.

Ok guys here's what happened today, I was checking the hoses and the one that comes off the top of the valve (the small hose that is connected to somewhere at the back of the engine and not the big one that is connected to the pump) just broke, it tried fixing it and it just fell apart. Can I drive this car until I get a new hose? Will it damage anything in the car if I don't change it for a few days?

Do you guys what this hose is called?

Thanks.

if you don't mind your engine light coming on. :rofl: i drove mine around for a couple days while i diagnosed that hose and it seemed to be fine.

just go to a hardware store and get some rubber hose like the piece you took off.

Does this hose has any special ends or is it just the regular ends of a hose. I couldn't see where the other end is attched to, it looked like it is attached to somewhere at the back of the engine. Is this hose that was giving a problem in your X5??

Can I change it next week or should I get it done in the next couple of days?

Thanks again for the help.

I just called the dealer and they want $22 for this hose. They said that it connectes to an electric valve. I was wondering if I could get it cheaper somewhere else. It all depends on how much time I have to fix this.

No, just go to any auto store and get vacuum hose. As long as the size (inside diameter) is correct then it should be fine. Take the old hose with you to the store to verify. I can't remember the size off the top of my head.

The hose connects to a hard plastic section that runs along the top of the engine. Check that piece to make sure it's still Ok as well.

I searched by part number on bimmerspecialist.ca and I was able to find it, it costs only $6.86 and for dimensions, it is mentioned 3.5 X 7.5 mm. Does this mean that the diameter is 3.5 mm?

see post 21

I took the old hose to a parts place and got a new one. It turned out that they sell them by the feet ($0.32 per foot). I put the new one in and it was very simple. I was easier than I thought.

Hopefully, this will fix the P0491 and P0492 errors.

I am really new to this and don't know much about it and I appreciate everyone's help.

I will post back if the SES comes on in the next couple of days.

Did the check engine light go off ??

I reset the light with my OBDII reader. So now it is off and up until now the light didn't come on. I will wait a couple more days then I will post back.

I SES light came on this morning. I am going to change the valve in the next few days and see if this fixes the problem. If not, then I have to change the pump. I am trying to avoid changing it because it is very expensive, but I guess I will have no choice if changing the valve doesn't fix the problem.

I will post back in a few days after I change the valve.

same error codes?

this could be because of a stuck valve, that hose, a bad oxygen sensor or two, or the other hoses, or the pump. i bet the pump is fine, you can check the pump by connecting it to 12V and see if it kicks on.

FYI:
good pump + bad valve / hoses + time = bad pump

Before you buy any parts, check to see if there is vacuum on your new line. You need to do this from a cold start. Disconnect it from the valve, start the engine then use your finger on the end to test for a vacuum.

If you don't get a vacuum then it could be a break in the line upstream of your hose or it could be the relay to the solenoid valve or it could be the solenoid valve itself.

Don't spend any money on a check valve or air pump until you've eliminated these other possibilities.

I will check the hoses again and hopefully the problem will be there and not in the pump/valve.

By the way, it is the same error codes that came back: P0491 and P0492.


Thanks again for the help guys.

I'll let you know if i don't need my pump, i bought a used one at a great price, but i am not sure if that is the problem or not.

Great. Thank you.

How did it go? The CEL light stay off?

I didn't change the valve because I got the wrong one on ebay. I just ordered another one and I should receive it in the next few days. I will let you when I change it if the light comes back on.

Tony77ca,

I am going through the same issues right now with my 03 3.0i. I brought it to the dealer this morning, they quoted me $1400 for it. What a freaking rip!! I am going to start testing out all the options myself. Please keep posting, this information is super valuable to people in the same situation.

PS, this is what the deal put on my invoice
"NEEDS AUX AIR PUMP $1365"

I still can't get over it!!!

Wow! I paid less than $200 for mine used, and i can put it in myself. The valve is around $100 new.

R&R on secondary air pump is easier than doing an oil change. Charging $1365 to change it is hard to believe when parts (pump and valve) are around $400 (new).

The stealer in Canada wanted $495 for pump and $158 for the valve plus taxes, so it is around $740 with taxes. So the stupid stealer wants to charge you for installation around $650, What a ripoff.

The valve that I got on ebay cost me around $120. The part number is: 11721707619. I am not sure which valve the 2003 takes. If it is the same one, I am willing to sell it to you for $100 and take a loss of $20.

I will post results when I install the new valve that I ordered, I should be receiving it by next week.

How come you can't use that valve?

Honestly, I am not even sure what valve I need at this point. If I look at places like bavauto the part number is different than the one listed on realoem and if I look at the valve itself in the car, that part number is different.

I am going to try and do more research, but if i find you have the right valve, then I will buy it off you.

Anyone know which valve is the correct one for a 2003 3.0i (prod date of 9/03)?

I couldn't use the valve that I got because it is not curved at the end that goes into the manifold. The one I have in my X5 is bent. I ordered it by getting the part number on realoem. I ended up calling the stealer and I got the correct part number from them. All they asked for was my serial number to make sure that they get the proper part number.

Don't waste your time searching different websites, just call the dealer and get the part number from them.

Tony.
I replaced only the valve and to date the code has not come back.
Get the fancy gasket with it...it seals it against the block.
The engine side of the old valve was all carboned up but the pump side was clean.

Thanks for the advise. I am going to change the valve and hopefully the problem won't come back. I already bought the casket at the stealership, they charged me $10 for this small piece. What a ripoff!!!! I couldn't get it anywhere else and I had to buy it at the stealer.

Tony,

I checked, your valve isn't that same as mine... I just ordered the valve and gasket from these guys.. free shipping and it was under 100. Not bad

http://www.aboveallmotorwerks.com/

NOW lets just hope I don't need to replace the pump. Anyone know how I can tell if the pump is bad once I get in there and replace the valve?

Thanks for link. I wish I had known about these guys, I could've bought the parts from them.

I guess if the (SES) comes back after you change the valve and reset the code, then the problem would be from the pump and it needs changing.

I am going to change my valve when I receive it, and see what happens. I will post results.

According to RealOEM this is the part # for our 3.0i

#11727540471

P.S: #11721437015 has been superceeded with the part number above.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...03&hg=11&fg=45

yup, just ordered it last night. I don't think my pump is doing anything though. Last night when I did a cold-start, I went under the hood... I didn't hear or feel anything. I would think I would feel the pump working if it were doing anything. Is there anything electrical (like a relay) i should check before ordering a pump?

Well gents....its off to the dealer for an air pump for me ! The light came back on last night. Cold night and cold start so I guess that triggered off the mechanism i.e. valve and pump.
$437.00 plus pst and gst. Oh fun. I thought the valve replacement did it .

Thom, why don't you order online? I have seen them for ~$300 in a few places

That seems odd that it came back on for you weeks later. I thought the pump worked everytime the car "cold-started"

Thanks Asousa. Thats $300. green dollars. So by the time we add the exchange and shipping...it comes out to about the same price as the stealer.
Your prices in the US are lower for these sort of things. Love cross boarder shopping though.

damn, it wasn't my valve... need to order a pump now. Light came back on after the valve change.

I am still waiting for the valve, I ordered it from getBMWparts.com last Sunday and it is still not shipped yet. This is the last time I order from these guys. I should've bought it at the stealer and paid more money instead of waiting. Hopefully, I will get it by next week.

THOM: The stealer in Ottawa wants $495 plus tax. If I will end up changing, then I am going to get one of my friends who live in Toronto to buy it for me, but hopefully I won't have to.

Tony, i live in ottawa too and still have that extra pump if you need to try one. let me know.

I am going to order a valve too i think.

Do you want to sell your pump or you're going to wait until you receive the valve? Thanks.

Tony77, if you go the stealer route, just ask them for the shop discount....you should get 15%. I paid $437. plus taxes. BUT I would try Brits first...better deal I would think.
I was up in Parry Sound on the weekend (very cold) the light didnt come back on. Shouldnt since I replaced the pump and valve !

Well i think the problem on mine is the valve since i hear my pump running on cold startup for 1min.

I wish there was a 100% way to tell :(

How do I get the shop discount? Should I just mention my mechanic's shop?

No...Just ask them for a discount...they are usually ok with a small discount...worth asking in this economy.

Tony, ill take my chances, ill sell you the pump for $175cdn. If it fixes your problem, keep it and pay me the money, if not, I'll take it back. Sound good?

I just ordered a pump.. while I wait for that to come in can someone tell me how to check the relay for it? I actually don't even know where it is or how to check it if I can...

Thanks

Brit6: Thank you for the offer. I appreciate it. I am going to change the valve first and then I will buy the pump from you if the problem is not fixed. I am still waiting for the valve, I bought 3 weeks ago and still hasn't arrived. I am expecting it this week.

UPDATE: I replaced the valve about 2 weeks ago, I could tell that the pump wasn't doing anything, so I ordered a pump on ebay. Pump came in last Thursday. Swapped it out on Sunday, yesterday morning the light shut itself off. This whole project cost me $205 and 45 mins of my time. The dealer wanted over $1500. WOW!

Wow, $205 for both valve and pump? That's really cheap.

yeah, 105 on the value from these guys (BMW Parts, VW Parts & European Auto Parts| Racing Pro Shop - Above All Motorwerks) and I got a used pump on ebay for $100 shipped.

Good luck with your swap when you get your parts

Brit6: Do you still have the pump? I would like to buy it from you if you still have it. Thanks.

By the way, I changed the valve yesterday and the light came back on today. So I guess the problem is from my pump. I swear I could hear it going on cold starts but I don't know what else could be wrong.

500 bucks for an air pump. no way.2004 BMW X5 Air Pump - Air Intake - Hella - PartsGeek iv'e dealt with these guys and been hoppy. az auto house is also good

By the way, I noticed on a cold start today that the "air box" is making a loud noise. Could the problem be from the air box and not the air pump?

Tony: I still have it yes. Do you still have your old valve?

I have noticed one thing though, it seems that when people have this problem they always have to replace the pump and the valve. Has anyone only ever changed just one or the other?

I havn't bothered to order the valve yet

I still have the old valve and you can use it to see if it fixes your problem.

Ok, let me know when you want to meet up.

Which part of Ottawa do you live in? I live at Hunt Club and Conroy.

Bringing this thread back from the dead................

I have actually rebuilt my secondary air pump with one from an 330ci that was working and changed the valve to a new one from the stealership .........AND still gettting the codes. I have an '02 3.0i. I've checked the vacuum line and couldn't find cracking.......... mind you, I also could get to the end of it as it goes around the back of the head........... anyone been able to do that yet on a 3.0i ????? If so, how did you do it ?

Also, need to change the filter on the pump intake side. Not sure if that has EVER been done actually. Anyone done this ??? I would think a blocked intake could throw codes as no air is getting in........... maybe also even burn out an air pump ?!?!??!? Thoughts.............:dunno:


Also noticed there's a lot of Canadians in this thread............... hmmmmm. I'm from the Toronto area.

I would try to aquire a used Secondary Air Pump from either a junk yard or ebay. Make sure it is the same part number as yours. If the valve is changed already (with a new one) then this should fix your problem.

I can't comment on rebuilding the pump as i have never attemped to do this before. Good luck, this is what fixed my problem, my CEL has not come on since changing it.

I just had these codes, replaced the valve even though it tested OK. Figured it had some carbon build-up and was sticking intermittently. The pump was working fine. Don't replace the pump if it works!

Codes came back on after the new valve was put in and all the rubber hoses still looked good. It turns out that the narrow metal tubes that carry the pumped air into the exhaust had a bunch of carbon build-up in them and this was causing the low-flow situation triggering the codes. Ran a bunch of water through them and a bunch of sludge came out, then plenty of air. Codes are off and haven't come back on for several days so I think this was the problem.

Those of you with these troublesome codes may want to check this out as part of your troubleshooting. FYI, my X5 is a 2001 3.0 with 122k.

"

..." mind you, I also could get to the end of it as it goes around the back of the head........... anyone been able to do that yet on a 3.0i ????? If so, how did you do it ?"

HAS anyone been able to get behind the head to fix these hoses, and is the electric valve back there as well?

Thanks

My Secondary air valve is bad and the air pump is over working (as someone described it, it sounds like a bad shopvac), I have ordered a new valve but in the mean time I want to disconnect the air pump so that i'm not killing it... does anyone know what effect that will have on the engine in general? Is it going to run rough, rich etc.. The valve will be here next week so in the mean time I want to shut the pump off assuming it won't affect the way the car runs.... is there a relay that I can remove or do I just unplug the pump?

Thanks