CRANKCASE VENTILATION SYSTEM / OIL SEPARATOR NOW COVERED UNDER CPO !!!
 

Evidently the masses have spoken and BMW has revised the SIB's for the "Crankcase ventilation system / Oil Separator - Cold climate conditions" for the N62/N62TU and M54 engines in just the past couple of days. Nothing has changed by way of parts used or the fixes employed, BUT the repairs are now "Covered under the terms of the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty or the BMW Certified Pre-Owned Program."

Good news to everyone with CPO's! No news on M62 engines yet.

NOTES:
SIB 110107 - For N62/N62TU
SIB 110803 - For M54
SIB 110104 - For M62 (attached as 5 separate pages due to forum size constraints)
M54 Note - Just an additional note about the fix for this engine. (see immediately below)

Hi
We found this thread searching for other people in the world with the same problem with BMW m54 engines. As you can se, english is not my usual language, and I hope you could explain the thread for me. What is SIB and CPO? Is BMW taking a bigger responsibility for older cars in your country?
(My is a 525 year 2002).
Thank you for your help
CWM, (Sweden)

CCV/Oil separator
 

Does this mean that the replacement of the CCV/Oil Separator will be done under CPO as part of preventive maintenance?
I have not had any oil separator problems on my 06 E53 with 3.0 but I am concerned something may happen after I reach 50K. I now have 43K and purchased the optional maintenance package from my dealer when I bought the X last summer with 35K miles.

- No it isn't officially considered preventive maintenance so it will not be just for just that reason.
- Should something fail, or shows signs of trouble, then it WILL be done under the Certified Pre-Owned program warranty.

How much did you pay for your extended maintenance plan?

SIB means Service Information Bulletin
CPO is the Certified Pre-Owned program - BMW North America

Yes they are. The repair used to be covered only under the standard 4 year/50,000 mile warranty. Now it's is covered until 6 years / 100,000 miles for vehicles with the extended warranty from BMW (either Certified Pre-Owned or Original Owner Protection program).

Good Golly.....

Just gathering part #'s as to do list of valley pan, gasket and CCV.

The heated wrap for the M62 engine (just a heated wrap) is $500.......

I'll pass on the wrap

It retails for $437.10 and you should be able to get it for less than $330.

Not sure who's computer is up to date.....but I spoke to 3 parts source - crevier, circle and morristown...all quote $5 - and I've ordered from all 3 in the past (to know they are not doing markup).

It seems like parts pricing overall has been going up quite a bit...
I suspect to make up for lost car sales..

Yeah I think prices are going up too. My source shows it for less than yours as stated in post # 7.

My husband and I have a 2003 X5 3.0 and we've had this problem twice now, the first time it was covered as we were still under CPO warranty. This time we're out of warranty and likely out of luck. We've called BMW NA, but haven't heard back yet. The dealership said they'd be surprised if BMW does anything about it. We've been concerned since the first "fix" that the problem was still there as we've always had yellow gunk/moisture in the oil. We were repeatedly told this was "normal" by the dealership.

I'm also an attorney in northern Illinois and actually spent most of my career thus far defending American automakers in product defect actions. I'm no longer doing that but it gave me some experience with these sort of issues and I actually was thinking of filing a class action suit on this issue. If you're interested in discussing this further send me a private message and I can give you contact information.

so if you had a nissan, and the PCV went out, you would want to sue them too right? also if the repairs were made less than 2 years ago, then it would be a parts warranty issue.

treat44, The gunk under the oil cap is not normal..Sure it is more common during the winter but if you see that gunk under your oil cap in fair to warm temps, something is definitely wrong. That gunk is condensation build up from the CCV/Oil seperator because the engine has not been warm enough to burn off that condensate..In the summer time I never had that gunk under my oil cap..rightfully so as temps were what i like to call "normal" outside so I had no condensate build up because it wouldn't get cold enough outside.. In the winter time I try to drive the X for longer durations getting the engine good and hot for longer then 30 minutes to help minimize condensate problems... GL with your lawsuit, I certainly understand...

Or better yet, just buy a different car if BMW's cause you to sue at will. Or even better, build your own perfect car and then should something go wrong sue yourself.

Dunno, about the Class Action angle, but I think treat44 has a point, and anyone experiencing the OS prob has a legit beef; while only a small % of
Xs/BMWs may suffer the OSV problem, it sure is a flaw or Achilles Heel in a car line that is touted as world class tested driving machine...

Think of all the cars one has had over the decades and try and come up with all those that suffered this kind of cold weather/short trip malady breakdown;
I can't think of any, of the 30+ cars I've had. Not banging on Xs or BMW, but it is a poor design, an untested design, a cheapazz fix, a weakness, a problem or, some combo.
My 50Cts.
GL,mD

Sorry, WSYWG doesn't work well on this wide screen lap top...:confused:

I just don't see the problem being that widespread. BMW made hundred's of thousands of X5's and plenty experience cold weather climates and I don't hear about this problem even in the hundred's, that's for sure.

Has anyone here tried to install the heated wrap on a V8?

How about the updated oil dipstick tube?

I'm considering doing this myself. When I had asked my dealer about the heated wrap, they said there was no such thing for my E53. Looking at these documents, it looks like the V8 instructions were published in March 2004!

Bump!

Just curious if anyone here have tried installing the heated wrap as well. Thanks in advance!

I installed the wrap a couple of years ago when this problem first occurred with my X5. Worked well after that and last year; now just today I must have had the CCV system freeze up as I had a large amount of oil that leaked out of the oil fill. Luckily it was that and not the valve cover gasket this time. So it seems to work, but I wish that there was a better fix.

I just had this problem occur with my 2005 X3 3.0 ... lots of smoke and a hydrolocked engine all cause by a valve that is obvioiusly defective. The dealership knew the issue just from a phone call and even the tow truck driver knew what it was. The dealership Service Adviser told me that, even if I had preventively replaced the valve, it would not matter -- it is a weather related issue. He had just finished up with another car with the same issue! So, why would I spend $1900 for them to clean out the oil and then put the same defective part back in? It is absurd to have to garage the car for the winter! BMW USA was no help and will not acknowledge that this is a safety issue due to a defective valve.. I was lucky because I was not on the highway but there was so much smoke I couldn't see where I was going.

The CCV doesn't freeze up, it is plastic, the condensate freezes up. It collects in the CCV. Remove the condensate, you remove the chance of it freezing up.

If you can't change your driving habits to reduce the condensate, then it only makes sense to me to clean it out before it causes damage. It doesn't cost $1900 to clean it out.

It is a little late for the advice about cleaning out the condensate -- $1900 too late. If the dealership had mentioned that this might be an issue I would have gladly done it.

btw, I have no clue where this valve is at nor do I know how to clean out the condensate. Is this posted somewhere?

The SA at the dealership also mentioned that driving habits don't seem to have an impact - the SA felt that variable weather temps in cold climates was the contributing factor to what seems to be a defective valve system. They suggested Sea Foam.

I liked the vehicle until now but I can't trust driving it in Minnesota. For me, this is a safety issue. I am almost resigned to fixing it and then selling it ... and go back to the quirky but honest Saabs I have driven for many years.

Why the CCV gets blocked
 

It is possible for the crankcase ventilation valve (CCV) to fail by itself, but the usual failure mode is that it gets blocked.

Inside the engine there is condensation, from the heating/cooling cycles of running it and then shutting it off. Entirely normal. That condensation can build up, combine with the oil, and form a milky coloured paste (condensate). If the engine gets fully up to temperature, ie hot enough (as it is designed to), for long enough (which doesn't happen with a lot of short trips) then the condensation burns off and there is no issue. That is how most engines are. However, if there are lots of short trips, without warming the engine completely, then the condensate builds up over time, and the milky coloured paste, which is often visible under the oil filler cap, collects in the crankcase breather system. If there is a lot of it, and it gets very cold out, then it can freeze and block the crankcase vent. If the vent freezes shut, you get a pressurized crankcase, and usually a valve cover gasket leak. If it freezes open, manifold vacuum can draw in oil from the sump, causing a hydraulic lock. That isn't common, it is more common to have an oil leak and the oil to basically be dumped all over the engine.

The new modified CCV was first insulated (to help prevent it freezing) and in some models, heated. Those modifications were to address the symptoms, not the cause. The real solution is to drive the car in such a way that it gets a good run every now and then. If that isn't possible, and the condensate is visible under the oil filler cap, then the CCV can be cleaned out. Eventually, the hoses to the CCV go soft from the oil and they need replacing. If the CCV is damaged, it needs replacing. However, simply cleaning it out isn't as expensive as replacing it all, and if I had to do a lot of short trips, and lived in a place where it got cold enough to freeze the condensate, I would clean it out annually.

I would not use Sea Foam.

Variable weather conditions contribute because they can result in more condensation. All that is moot if the car is driven hard enough, however.

I share your enthusiasm for SAABs, I drove a 99 and used a family member's 900 many years ago.

Well finally had some issues even after a few clean out's of the CCV. Had the engine misfire on me twice and cause a flashing check engine light. Took it in to the shop and sure enough my engine vaccum was what they say '35 millibar' approx 10 millibar higher than what it should be. And they offered the update and I agreed, $1400 later...sadly. Really wish this would have shown up when my CPO warrenty was present. Sadly it was up Oct 31 of 2010. Tried for my safety one warrenty but they stated it is part of the emissions and exhaust system so it is not covered. Also tried the 8 year emissions warrenty for BMW but that covers ECM, cat's and a few other things NOT ccv or pcv. Also the pcv or ccv is covered for two years under new car warrenty not 4. Just thought I would share my update. 2005 4.4i with 56,000km

JCL, Thanks for the great description of the issue
 

But, the car is driven 12 miles each way on the highway to work and back 3 to 5 days per week. That should be sufficient to burn off the condensate. The exception was that over the holidays it was not driven as much because I took time off from work.

Is there a reason you would not use Sea Foam? It was the only suggestion made by the Service Advisor that might be preventative.

Is there a post about how to locate and clean out the valve?

The only positive item the SA brought up was that, if there were issues with the exhaust/emissions, that it would be covered under the 8 years/80K mile warranty. After all, there was oil dripping out of the tailpipe --that can't be good for those systems... He said that to get rid of the oil smell, they would idle the car for 3 or 4 hours.

Rather than pay the dealership $1900 ($1500 in labor) I may look for an indie mechanic. Does anyone know of someone in the Minneapoilis, MN area? Thanks again.

12 miles isn't enough to burn off the condensate IMO. The engine has to get fully up to temperature, and stay there for awhile. I suspect you are getting it warm, but not giving it time at that temperature to get rid of the condensation.

It doesn't happen on one trip or over a week, it happens over an extended period.

SeaFoam engine treatment is 70 or 80 years old. It is a very low tech product, and it can be harsh on the internals of your engine. Both the oil additive, and the fuel additive, are specifically recommended against by BMW.

Is it possible to replicate engine "load" to heat a -25C Canadian winter cold engine faster to full operating temperature by just revving the engine to around 1300-1500RPM while stationary until out of blue zone before driving?

Would it help after short drives to rev the engine to say 2500-3000RPM for a few minutes to burn off any moisture?

Most of our common suburb drives are "short" local trips and after reading various posts am trying to avoid another winter breakdown.

A few years ago had my M54 engine hydrolock CCV freeze up about three months after buying a two year lease return. Edmonton BMW Dealer Tech guy told me that it is less common in cars driven hard and he replaced the frozen CCV/hoses with the non insulated versions=$700.00. Dealer Tech did mention they had a special BMW machine to clean out the cylinders only used to speed up this common hydrolock repair even though it was not a warranty covered repair. He also used Mobil 1 oil in his BMW. Was at a dealer last month and one of the used sales guy's and his X5 hydrolocked so he added the actual "heated" hose version for $400 employee cost. No one at that dealer will say much about prevention(cleaning out or replacing CCV) and they do not publicly advise avoiding short trips.

Revving the engine without load is not a good idea. It is the load that helps it warm up, not the rpm. The engine has to be working against a load. Revving a cold engine will just cause more wear IMO.

If your problem was a couple of years ago, and you want to avoid a future problem, I would ask them to inspect the CCV. If it is clean, then you know that your typical driving is not much of a problem. Realize that it could have taken two years of the previous owner's typical use to build up enough condensate to allow it to freeze up. On the other hand, if it is truly plugged up after two years, then cleaning it out would be advisable.

If they won't tell you not to drive on short trips, it would be because a lot of people do so, and consider that to be normal usage. They don't want the customer push-back IMO.

If you want to try and get some heat into the engine faster, and you are parking it outside at -25C, then you could always put those stick-on silicone heating pads on the oil pan and plug it in overnight. That won't prevent the condensation, but it will help the engine to warm up more quickly, and may thus help reduce condensation build-up over time by giving the engine more time to boil off the condensation.

125 watt oil pan heater V8's oil(8L?) from -4F(-20C) to +54F(+12C) overnight
 

FYI those (Canadian Polar Pad, Wolverine) silicone oil pan heaters work as per the truck post results below. 125 watt heated his V8's oil(8L?) from -4F(-20C) to +54F(+12C) overnight was proof enough for me to install the same 125 watt model(M54 V6). Went out today -25C and starts up quiet with no cold engine noises. EDIT: starting from frozen in about 2 hours the engine immediately starts on the first crank and on low idle but with cold belt squealing compared to no noises when plugged in overnight.

Called the Canadian Polar Pad(@Canadian Tire) helpdesk before my install and he said to keep the engine warm for a few hours for the outside high heat silicone sealant to set up properly. I stored it in my neighbors heated attached garage overnight to be safe. The Wolverine site has more info(available at Gregg Distrubuters here in Canada) Wolverine Engine Heaters and states "...REDUCES water and acid accumulation in the oil supply." Did a practice fit install first including re-attaching the bottom airflow cover so there were no surprises.

Oil pan heater results (winter is coming) - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
Oil pan heater results (winter is coming)
So I installed a 125watt oil pan heater last week. I got to test it yesterday since it was -4 (F) outside. It kept the oil temperature at 54 (F) overnight ! I was really impressed. Well worth the 10 minute install. The brand I used comes with good install instructions and it comes with the sticky pad already on it. Here are the details of the unit i used:
Model CP154
Size: 2.25 in x 4 in x .075 in
125 watts nominal, 120V

Application Range:
Engine w / 1.5 - 4.5 litres - Oil
Tank w / 4 - 25 litres - Hydraulics
Even though my truck has 3 gallons of oil it kept the engine oil at a decent temperature. The thing I really like about it is that it is very small and easy install.

Any tips on install. Oil pan doesn't look to easy for something to place on it. Any help would be appreciated. Even after ccv update I'm having big issues with my x. Oil cap has sludge as well. Again.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

How did you attach it to the oil pan?
I was told the surface got to be flush or that thing will pop off once it warms up... :dunno:
4.4i got 8 liters of oil
would it make sence to put two of the 125w or one 250?

good blip on CCV
 

Nice blip on the CCV. I also have issues with my 2003 3.0i in Northern IL. Replaced twice in last 5 years; first (50k mi) blew a VC gasket under CPO, then replaced last year (100k) as preventative maitenance (moisture under cap, misfire, clogged DISA), recently (140k) froze stuck and caught the excess pressure and got towed home to heated garage and sucked out hoses and changed oil M1 0w40. All of the above occured with -10 deg F. The most recent was a short trip followed by parking over night at those temps (WTF was I thinking?) I have NOT had issues with my E36 or E39. I have some theories on this....

My wife and I have similar commutes, by we do not have similar driving habits.
My E36 was and E39 is a manual.
The X5 has an additional quart of oil
The X5's engine has more "breathing room" under the hood.
I recall reading an article that mentions a vacuum connection not used on E53 M54 CCV but is used on my E39 M52TU and prior E36.
Perhaps the E53's cooling system has too much capacity for cold climates.

Sorry about the rambling, I need sleep. I just got my Cub Cadet snowthrower stuck in this blizzard!

can someone tell me the part number of this CCV, i cant find it anywhere

Look at this link, specific to an '03 4.4:

RealOEM.com * BMW E53 X5 4.4i Crankcase-Ventilation/oil separator

thank you!

Update:
After worrying for last couple of weeks about condensation build up, pulling out dip stick and seeing oil almost white aand i changed oil 3 weeks ago. I finaly took it to my friend (bmw technician) he checked hoses - brand new, someone changed them before me, oil was clear too
He told me to avoid problems i have to drive it! More than my wife does(10 minutes, twice a day), atleast once a week, put something like 100 kms and all condensation will be gone!
So for 15$ a week - i think it is reasonable to avoid all the issues with CCV :thumbup:
I am surpriced that i didnt have this issue last winter, it was cold one too, as low as -40C
He also mentioned that there is a permanent sollution but - 40 labour hours! 5000$ and your X5 will never have issues with condensation :rofl:
It won't be me getting this fix for sure. It requires something added to engine, which reqiures engine to be taken appart :ghetto:

I have a 2005 Range Rover HSE that has the BMW 4.4 liter motor and believe is the same as in some of the X5's. A few months ago, after it was warmed up, I would start getting a blue cloud out the exhaust. I immediately knew it had something to do with the crankcase ventilation and took it to have it worked on at the Range Rover dealer. It didn't show a problem for them and so they did nothing. It would only happen when it was warmed up and so it didn't show for them.

A few days later, the blue cloud was so bad you couldn't see anything behind you and it was thick. I knew I had a problem, and was going to replace the oil separator kit. On the way home, I stopped at a hardware store, I started it when coming out and it idled fine for a short time and then blue smoke and it stopped in an instant with hydraulic lock. I removed the plugs and they were soiled with oil, lots of oil.

Trying to crank the engine it won't move. Even manually with a crowbar it won't move and so I am very confident a rod is bent wedged up against the bottom of a cylinder. I believe it is the furthest back cylinder on the passenger side of the car since it is closest to the top of the cylinder head when measuring through the spark plug hole.

I am in the process of trying to repair it, with the belief since it was at idle, the only problem will be a bent rod. So I am hopeful I can just replace it and the oil separator kit, and be back in business.

My question is this. Is there any possible way I can replace the rod from the bottom. I would like to do so without even having to drop the crank shaft hoping that disconnecting the rod on the piston, and having the crankshaft rotated maximizing the distance between it and the base of the piston will give me enough room to remove the piston pin for the rod and then remove it. Replace the rod with a new piston pin, connect it to the crankshaft and be on my way.

Is that possible with these engines?

I am being told I will have to remove the intake manifold, head, and timing chain to do this work. that the rod will have to come out through the cylinder. Is that true?

Last question. I believe it would be less hassle to drop the crankshaft and do it from the bottom. But I am interested in what others know about these engines. It has been 35 years since I overhauled an engine, and it wasn't a BMW engine.