New '05 4.4 owner
 

I just picked up an '05 CPO X5 4.4 with 37,000 miles from a dealer in Chicago. I drove the car back to Maryland, and really loved the car and the ride (what's not to love?). I then drove to NY the following weekend. Although rated at 16-22 mpg, highway only miles for the two trips averaged 19.6 mpg, with a light foot and careful acceleration, with my speed averaging about 75 mph. Has anyone ever actually experienced 22 mpg on the highway?

Also, the X5 has new Michelin Diamaris tires, which I understand may not do well in the snow. I spend time in snow country in the winter. Does anyone have any suggestions for managing this for occasional snow driving? The car, by the way, is Khalahari Beige with a sport package and 19 inch wheels.

Thanks for any replies to the above.

Congratz on an awesome ride!!

Hey - nice ride! I looked at a kalahari before I bought my '05.

I have a 4.4 and last weekend, we did about 500mi and I got about the same as you, 19.7-ish. I get about 19.5 in mixed driving. I have gotten close to 22 over short distances, but I have to drive like 65mph. Going faster hurts mileage, I think because the aero dynamics are not good.

Welcome and congratulations....

we get 24 mpg on the highway. you gotta slow down, it is the only way (55). going faster exponentially decreases mpg.

get winter tires you will be amazed. we get 3 days of snow here every year and keep them on for 5 months. few people realize that they make a huge difference above freezing b/c of their softer compound...

be wary of anyone who tells you different. they most likely haven't used them or haven't taken the necessary driving courses to understand the dynamics of driving

even BMW recommends them for temperatures below 45F...

Do not ride on those tires in the snow.They are great handling for summer and grip the road like no other but are sleds in the snow. Get a set of 17 or 18 inch rims with snow tires and change them out each season.

Welcome. :wavey:

irmember that car, mirror motor, some wheel rash and door handel peeling?

agree with the above posts - get some 17/18" wheels and put either some winter tires or a very aggressive all season tire on it. ultimately, the snows would be the best, but if price and longer mileage are an issue and you won't be driving in really deep snow, you can get away with a A/S truck tire.

:xoutpost2: :wavey:

Where in Maryland are you?

if price and longer milage are issues don't buy crappy winter tires!

buy good winter tires (consumer reports rates them) and save yourself an accident.
no season tires (all seasons) are not good enough for the cold (below 45F) or any snow. Don't believe the BS out there based on ignorance...

:dunno: :dunno:

Congrats.

Thanks to all those that replied - your comments are helpful.
Zach

Hi. I am located in Bethesda. And you?

Congrats. Yes you should invest in winter tires. Do a thread search for a lot of great info on this topic.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/images/...palmsmiley.gif

good winter tires are expensive. your first statement makes no sense. some people can't afford 200 a tire. there's no point buying crappy winter tires, as "no seasons" can perform close.

Maybe up in Canadia would someone require snow tires, but don't give me the BS that All Season's lose all grip in temperatures under 45F. There have been huge improvements in tire technology which brings all seasons to the snow level of snow tires from 6 years back. Europe is also reviewing All Seasons and seeing if the Winter Tire Law is still required. There are some all seasons with mountain/snoflake ratings.

It's BS to tell others that if you don't spend $800+ tires on your SUV, you'll be screwed in the winter. It's a NO BRAINER that good snow tires are the best, especially for heavy snow. True ignorance is saying if the X5 owner doesn't get good snows, they might as well stay at home all winter, while their neighbors with their jeeps and explorers with old stock tires go to work when it's 40F outside. My X5 did just fine in the Michigan Winters with factory Energy MXV4's. A bit more slip, but was never screwed, including drives to work after HR called it optional to come due to heavy snow. Of course I didn't aim for snow banks and mounds.

Quote from Consumer Reports on Winter Tires: All-season tires aren’t the best in the wake of a severe winter storm, especially if you must be on road before the highway crews. Winter tires have treads with more biting edges for better grip on snow and ice, while their softer compound remains flexible even in extremely low temperatures. On cleared roads, however, they might not grip as well as all-season tires, and they often wear more quickly. They do not have tread-wear warranties or grades and should be removed in the spring.

I assume the author meant all seasons may grip better than winter tires in cleared road during the winter season. I think he also meant as long as you aren't planning on driving in unplowed roads and if wear is an issue, you can get away with good rated all seasons.

I'm in northern Harford County.

Are there Maryland events that may be of interest to an X5 owner? For example, I used to own a Land Rover, and we'd do local off-roading.

None that I know of.

CongratS! Mine is new too.

What cmyX5go said. I took her and some others advise a few months back and now own a dedicated set for winter as well as the Diamaris for all other seasons.

My wife's '06 X5 (sport package 4.4 with 19's) was absolutely useless this last winter, even with brand new Michelin's. I haven't tried my new 17's and the winter Dunlops as yet, but I'm expecting a much different experience come next winter. From all reports, cmyX5go's included, I'm excited about the possibilities.

'Course, that little "I Dream of Jeannie" hip action figure should be convincing enough all on it's own.......;)

Congrat's on your new X5......we love ours. I'm convinced that it would be prudent if you would consider the smaller wheel/dedicated winter tire recommendations being offered.

Good luck...................

Ken, Thanks for that advice. Winter seems a long way off, but I'll certainly consider the dedicated winter tires.

the winter tire thing is easy. get your hands on the BMW winter tire flyer, they even state that around 45F and below grip is drastically reduced with no season tires.

or of course, you could believe those that say they hardly make a difference, yet advise you away from spending money to buy the good ones. two thoughts on this, you get what you pay for, and I am not rich enough to buy the cheap stuff....

oh and the point about being in Canada, we get 3 days of snow a year where i live. I would never subject my family to anything less than good winter tires during the cooler months. want to save money? buy used tires cheap on craigslist for the rest of the year... oh, and buy purchasing a second set of tires you can run both other sets longer and save money too...

ignorance is bliss!

i'm sure you also get the $200 fuel treatments from the dealer too, as they advertise it. there's a reason BMW push winter tires - THEY MAKE MONEY off them. ignorance at its best. they also state only use OE approved tires. wonder if your vehicle will crash and burn with non-OE tires....Working in the auto industry, one would know the difference between legitmate statements and consumer fluff.

why recommend the winter tire review from consumer reports, and then dismiss their summary about winter vs. all season?

never said winter tires hardly make a difference, and if you can afford them, go ahead. Your comments still do not make sense. "i am not rich enough to buy the cheap stuff...."

Buying used tires from random people on craigslst/ebay can have bigger issues. I've been burned with them being out of round, dry-rotting, being old, plugged hazards, etc....

The original discussion has always been to buy a second set of wheels, and buy winters if you can. Great. This has never changed. Offering an economic alternative of all seasons is a OPTION. Get it? Not the best solution...an OPTION. Calling one ignorant for giving an option to the OP's question merely shows your crudeness for the issue.

Recent review of an All Season Truck Tire in snow:
General Grabber HTS Tire Test - Four Wheeler Magazine
I guess myself, as well as all the publications out there, are ignorant. Better stick to the BMW's pamphlet.

Ignorance isn't bliss. it's a disease spread by those with opinions.

Keep buying those fuel treatments. I'm sure BMW loves you for it.

OK, u win, this was not meant to be personal. buy the cheap stuff, do not think critically about the recommendations of the manufacturers and reviewers, and you are not ignorant, but I am....

that makes for a great new saying. I am proud to be ignorant, it can be cured....

this is turning out to be very interesting. the four wheeler magazine link raves about the General Grabber HTS and its ability to perform in ice and snow. even gives some explanations about how the design is made to work like that as it traps snow and plugs up the spaces in the tire tread(why would you ever want your tread plugged up?)

then, wanting to ensure that my ignorance is as educated as possible, i go to General's website to see what they claim about their winter ability for this tire. Nothing, not ONE word about ice or snow or cold. that is weird.

so I think, hey, let's visit a trusted source for more information. one that does not accept ad revenues to influence their opinions. the difference is staggering. snow traction - not excellent, not very good. ice braking - not excellent, not very good, not even good. oh and thread life - second lowest rating (I wonder why with their 'softer compound')

now can consumer reports improve their testing. Yes, they make no mention of the TEMPERATURE at which the dry and wet braking is done at. do this near freezing on clear roads and watch no season tires fall on their faces. funny enough the General Grabber HTS may be an exception with its softer compound.

to the OP, to avoid poor quality used tires there are many resources that teach how to read a tire including the date of manufacture. note how and where they are stored and u can even take them to a tire shop to have them check for roundness. oh and if you check the tire and see plugs, patches, nick, cuts, drying cracks, curb damage or bullet holes, um, maybe don't buy that one.

Congrats on your new ride:thumbup:. Don't feel bad about the mileage. After I "Dinan-ed" out my ride, I'm getting substantially worse than stock mileage (probably around 16 mpg or so). But I am perfectly fine with the mileage "hit" because the X breathes and responds superbly. Plus I can never see myself cruising at a tame 60 mph to save on mileage.

sprocket, we can agree to disagree at this point. I see that you are a no-compromise person when it comes to winter driving, you had bad experiences with all seasons, or both. There's no problems with wanting the best traction for winter driving. I prefer snows myself.

regarding snow and tires, you WANT snow in the tread. The best surface for traction in snow is....snow. Have you tried shearing a snowball (take the halves of a snowball and shear it apart)? That is the whole principle behind snow tires. They have evolved from the past where they don't have large blocks with huge spaces in the middle to fling snow (like a mud tire). They often use all season like patterns, and they add siping and change the compounds to allow flexability of the sipes/blocks in colder weather. These sipes 1. create many edges for braking in ice, as the best traction in ice is by concentrated pressure on edges, and 2. capture snow to increase snow/snow traction. The softer compounds allow grip in cold non-snow conditions and flexibility in the sipes.

All the tire rack consumers have also rated the HTS tire surprisingly good in snow. you know what? it's also #1 in consumer ratings. I think that says a lot, considering these are actual owners of the tires, not a magazine with who knows what kind of test abilities. It's pretty obvious when a tire sucks in snow, I would have expected to see this in the reviews. With all the #1 reviews from a 4 wheeler magazine, a "trusted" source like CR, and great subjective reviews from people on Tire Rack, it does show that all-season tires are improving in all categories, including snow.

you can go on and on about on all seasons vs. snow and which publications say what. tire manufacturers, car companies, tire sellers, etc... all make more money selling winter tires. definitely more than selling consumers one tire for all seasons. it would be safe to say any company in the market to sell tires would try to push winter tires. I would expect more bashing of all seasons to sell dedicated summer and winter tires.

your ignorance does not come from the benefit of a dedicated winter tire. that's a no-brainer. it's from your no-season mentality, unable to understand that all-seasons are always improving, including in the snow category. alas, keep bashing "no-seasons" as good for nothing. not all ailments are curable.

Slow down to get better mileage. I average about 19mpg at 80mph. at 65, it's closer to 21, and at 55, it's probably even better...
they become boxes, and I can feel the air push hard against the X once I get over 70mph or so...

Let me amend my earlier post. This weekend we drove ~500 highway/mountain driving. I got the rated 22mpg! for the 4.4! Drove between 65-75 mostly. I'm impressed.

MPG for the 2500mi I've owned the car is now at 20mpg based on the computer.
(I know it may be inaccurate, but I'm too lazy keep track of actual usage.)

Thanks, cobra94563. That is heartening. I did buy the car partially because of the rated gas mileage. Zach

I am not saying that all seasons are not improving as I am confident that they are, but they can only be as good as a winter tire by giving up part of their all season ability. as CR states the treadlife is horrible which is most likely attributed to a softer compound which is good for cold weather traction, funny how that works...

I would be very pleased if everyone bought grabber HTS. they will be better than your old all season tires b/c yes they are an improvement over the old a/s technology you are currently using, so you will rate them better. without testing many tires you won't know the different of what is available, but it will be better than what you had.

when you crash into me in cold or winter conditions, i will be pointing out that they are NOT winter tires and that there was only 500,000 miles reported on the tirerack ratings (vs say 66 Million for Michelins) and you thought that would rate them #1. (at 25,000 miles per report that is only 20 people...)

I will also be having this all documented for the insurance company and they already know what the facts are. they support winter tire use...

I just read through the tirerack review on the Grabber HTS. people are experiencing bizarre vibrations issues with this tire. once guy even noticed the severe increase in gas consumption. I would avoid these tires, the risk is too great.

Guy give it up. :bustingupYour first reponse was enough to laugh off and not respond, but this second one takes the cake as being way out in left field. Now it's about bashing HTS? Stick with the original topic, son.

Let me break it down so we can organize the topics here (and for other members to skip as it has no relation to the original thread).

For everyone else
*Snows are great. If you can afford them and the added storage space, Get them. I loved mine on the M3. With some compromise in ice/heavy snow, if cost is a big issue, you don't want to change out tires twice a year, or carry two sets of wheels, a new set of highly rated A/S are an alternative.

Tirerack Ratings:
Michelin - #2 with the all new Latitude tour in 2008, has compaints about handling, cupping/flatspotting, poor traction, noisy, etc... with some people scoring 5's and 6's. However majority found them good, thus the rating is high. If the HTS problem was so wide spread, the rankings would be much lower. Overall ratings do matter. Tire manufacturing has a lot of inherent variation in the process, and you will see some bad tires out there.

I guess you won't be picking up the all new Michelin Latitudes either....tires must suck with half the feedback/mileage of HTS and some crappy reviews. Being #2 under the HTS AND with half the reported miles. They must be twice as crappy :rofl: That must make it even more crappy than Michelin's older tire, the LTX M/S. Ouch.

Just stick with the Michelin LTX M/S guy. It has 67 million miles - plenty of field time. Be happy with your 10 year old technology :thumbup:

Insurance claim:
Your whole idea of making a report to insurance is just absurd and quite comical. I'm embarrased to be responding to such a comment, so I put this in italics. So you'd like to note that every vehicle that comes from the factory is a road hazard in the winter, as no vehicle comes from the factory with winters. Shame on BMW for not making winters a standard feature! Add to your insurance report every car that's older than 5 years, as the older technology surely isn't as good as the current vehicles out. Ban vehicles that have longer stopping distances, because if they could stop faster, they wouldn't have hit you. They should have upgraded to Brembos. Everyone should. You should, or else you aren't the safest. I'm contacting my insurace to let them know 1. you should have upgraded your brakes. I'd compromise with upgraded Ceramic pads and SS lines. it's not that much money since you can afford winters... Sure they aren't a legal requirement, but knowing you don't have the safest vehicle on the road has enraged me. While you are at it, strip down your interior. All that added weight is endagering myself and motorists around you......http://forum.e46fanatics.com/images/smilies/blah.gif

Conclusion:
I'm done with you. It's getting old. To calm your fears and to stop subjecting the forum to this nonsense, I give you this - although a long shot, if I ever find myself driving around your area during winter time (damn any time - I don't have upgraded brakes too), I'll be sure to PM you, so you can park the car in the garage and lock up your doors till I pass with my brand new Michelin MXV4's, which are a threat to everyone on the road when under 40F. Warn your friends and neighbors as well. Peace :thumbup:

Latitude tour....what a crappy tire. It's also 40% higher cost.:rofl:

It is now 140% worse than the HTS.

you need to do your homework. I have not bashed the hts based on personal experience. i only investigated what other users have said. maybe your experience with them has been different. please tell us what you have found about these amazing tires.

funny you mention the ltx, they are always highly rated when tested against other new technology. as for mxv4, good choice, i use them too, just not under 45F and certainly not at 40F.

you have also not mentioned any literature. if thousands of actual stats don't matter to you then just just ignore this last part. Quebec has documented that the 10% of the drivers who are using a/s (the other 90% on winters) in the winter cause 38% of the accidents. let alone the traffic jams, near misses, blocked roads, etc. they have mandated that passenger vehicles and taxis keep them on until March 15. now the CAA (AAA) has released a statement that drivers would be better off keeping them on until April 15. the vast majority european drivers have been doing this for years. Maybe I am not the only one who has experience like this.

but, hey, they are not as good a driver as you are...

here, a link with a few more people that have relevant experience...

Quebec's mandatory winter tire law starts Monday

if you find a link where people are stating that they have worse performance in winter on winter tires, I would love to read that.

I know CR rated a/s and winter, but they did not state the temperature at which the testing was done...

Had HTS on my previous vehicle (Grand Cherokee). Purchased based off the good reviews from the publications, and was pleasantly surprised. Think that's more "homework" from your "I would avoid them" comments. You've never owned nor driven with them, telling others not to buy from individual online responses, while the responses as a whole say they are great? That's bashing without a foot to stand on. You're doing homework for a class you aren't enrolled in.

I had LTX's on my 97 Expedition 10 years ago. They were great tires and I'm sure they still perform. However, if Michelin didn't develop better technology in 10 years and are charging more for their new product, the company's product portfolio group ought to be fired. No problems from my side with the LTX. It's just an older product, where the successor to this line should be better.

Lastly, government regulations regarding winter tires have been around in other countries for a while. Quebec's "newly approved" regulation isn't groundbreaking. Statistics like this can be severly generalized and manipulated to prove a point. I don't like stats without understanding the variation. Was the environment the same for all accidents? Were the vehicles the same? etc.... I find this study must less controlled then tire rack's testing. I'm sure if we were kind enough to ask, we can find out the temperature during testing. I assume any winter testing would be done under 45F, or else, what's the point? Do we have to ask if their summer tire testing was done in 10F weather? Probably not.

You don't need a passed regulation to tell you that winter tires are better than A/S in wintery conditions. Don't know why you keep arguing this. Winter tires are great. All season are capable in certain winter conditions, thus are an alternative for certain drivers in certain locations. Drivers are not screwed with A/S if they have to drive in 40F dry and sunny weather in Texas. Get over it.

Congrats :thumbup:

If you live in Bethesda MD and drive mostly in that area you don't need snow tires IMO.

The X5 will amaze you...with the snow amounts we experience here.

I live in Bluemont VA and drive on icy mountain roads with the stock tires...not a single issue during the past 3 winters.