X5 or X3?
 

Before I start, a quick note to forum moderators: I have posted the same thread on the E70 forum but I suspect both forums get a different readership and I NEED to have some opinions soon as I am in a hurry. Please do not delete as 'double posting'. Actually, I am thinking of buying a 2005 X5, but I saw the E70 forum before I saw this one


I once again ask for your help, good people of xoutpost. I have decided to change my mini cooper s (which I only bought two and a half months ago) as my wife and I are having our first child and need something more accommodating for a young family.

So I need a car that will be

a. safe for a pregnant mother and her baby (when, God willing it comes)

b. offer plenty of space

c. Be reasonable off roading.


Now, I am not going to be challenging the car too much off roading, after all, I only will be taking the car off road 5-10 times a year maximum. The car will be therefore used 70% on the road (this is why I want a slightly more 'sensible' car) and 30% (if that) off roading. By off roading I mean getting to and back from farms and the marsh (will not be taking the car in the marsh itself, just close to it).

I have heard and read mixed reports for the X3, people seem to believe that X5 is much better car than an X3, plus I need something that offers 'real' 4x4 potential, so X5 sounds the better choice. I am talking about an approved used, of course.

Anyone has any advice and/or knowledge of these two cars? My budget is up to £20k in total.

Any ideas?

Thanks in anticipation

hi, i drive a 2002 X5 4.4i sport auto permanent 4wd , the 2004 onwards have xdrive , this means they usually only drive the rear wheels so that you feel as though driving a rear wheel drive . the transfer case has a clutch pack to engage also the front wheel drive or send power in variable ratios to front or rear .
my wife drives a 2004 X3 3.0i auto SE with factory tow bar and uprated rear suspension .
i do not recommend the sport suspension for transporting small children ,nor the uprated suspension .
either car in SE form may be acceptable , especially the X5 as it is more spacious , has flat floor access in the rear seating and a split tailgate for easier access although the X5 boot floor is considerably higher and may or not be suitable for loading a baby buggy.
only issue with the seating area flat floor is things could roll out when you open a door .
the X5 is around 20cm (8 inches ) wider than the X3 overall .

I had a 2005 X3 before (my son was from 0 to 18 months), and now a 2002 X5 (my son is 2.5 years old). I changed car due to moving to another country, nothing to do with disliking the X3, I loved it a lot.

- Handling - X3 was significantly better, much more fun (xDrive), and felt a lot more like driving a sedan / coupe instead of SUV, than the X5 (weight); My X5 has sport suspension and lowered, my wife and son have no issues with them :-p

- Cargo space - reports / specs claim X3 actually has bigger cargo space than the X5, but they felt pretty much the same to me. I seat my 3 x Golden Retrievers in both cars without putting down the rear seat without any worry.
- Passenger space X3 - is definitely smaller, but both my wife and I are short so not much of a problem for us in terms of head and log rooms. I had no problem putting the infant seat (back-facing) in the rear center seat, but the remaining left and right seat was a little small, especially for a larger size adult on a long trip (it was never a problem for us because it's usually just me, wife and baby).

- Passenger space X5 - Significantly better, difference is exactly like a 3 series vs 5 series. My son is now 2.5 and has a much bigger front-facing baby seat which is put in the rear center seat as well, and the left and right seats are still comfortable. I can't imagine if it was the X3, unless it is put on the left / right rear seat instead.

Hope this helps

Not correct. Both xDrive and non xDrive models have a nominal 40%/60% front/rear drive bias (non xDrive is actually 38%/62%) on a high-traction surface. The difference is that the non xDrive has an open planetary style centre diff whereas xDrive has an electronic multi-plate clutch pack that can proportion the drive front to back according to the available traction and driving conditions. In a low traction environment, non xDrive only has its electronic traction control to help get the drive to where it can be best used whereas xDrive has both the centre clutch pack and ETC. With xDrive, it's only under extreme conditions that all the drive is directed towards the rear wheels.

We have a 2002 X5 and a 2007 X3, both with sport package. My wife drives the X3 as her daily driver, and my X5 is my winter vehicle (but driven a bit in spring/summer/fall). Please don't tell my wife, but I hate driving the X3. It's fun to drive, but cramped in the passenger space and cargo area. I have no idea how BMW claims X3 has more cargo space than X5, there's no way. Example - our Son plays ice hockey - a goalie with a huge equipment bag and leg pads. When we go to overnight travel tournaments, we can fit his large goalie bag, leg pads, large suitcase, small bag, laptop bag and other items in the X5 cargo area - filled to the rafters of course. With the X3, we can fit the large goalie bag and leg pads, but get this, we can do this only by flipping down 1/2 of the rear seat. We can never take it on longer trips since we can't fit all of our luggage, therefore, we can only use the X3 to take him to his practices during the week. Lesson learned, we bought the X3 based on the claim of the large cargo space; however, BMW duped us on this one for sure. We don't do off-roading, but have harsh winters here in New England every so often, and both X's do great in heavy snow conditions.

So, bottom-line, she loves her X3, I love my X5, but there's much more room in the X5 for passenger and cargo. Both are capable vehicles, it just comes down to whether you want a larger, heavier vehicle, or a smaller, lighter, lower to the road sedan-feeling vehicle. So, I hope this helps! :thumbup:

WOW! many thanks guys. Really useful input. I appreciate the help. I shall test drive a couple today and report back my impressions!

I owned an '07 X3 w/o sport package and now own an '06 X5 with sport package. These are both great vehicles but with extremely different characters. First, I second everything that has been written in this thread. The X5 is much bigger while the X3 drives more like a sports sedan, etc. So, I'll touch on some subjective impressions. Bear in mind that I've only had my 5 for 3 weeks. The X3 is a well done vehicle. It offers versatility, good handling, quality and a degree of comfort. It is fairly solid and a decent highway cruiser.

The X5 is a different beast altogether. It feels as though it was put together with far fewer compromises. It is like the proverbial 'bank vault on wheels'. Its solidity is beyond reproach. It is heavy but in a good way. That weight seems to assist it in achieving a 'riding on a cloud' feeling, even with the sport package. It is smooth, quiet secure and profoundly comfortable. The extra space inside goes a long way towards making this the best highway cruiser I personally have ever driven. I've owned scores of vehicles. The interior fit and finish is luxury par excellence. My vehicle has the comfort seats and they are fantastic. All electronic systems (nav, audio, computer) are integrated with each other and work quite well. The panaramic sunroof is beautiful (as it is in the X3). The leather and wood are extremely well done. Handling is remarkable for such a heavy vehicle but, the weight takes its toll. It is not quite spry and sports-sedan like but excellent nonetheless. Power, even with the 3.0, is good and the exhaust note is nice.

All in all, the X5 is a tremendously gratifying and luxurious driving and ownership experience. It feels, again, uncompromised; as though the engineers threw everything they had into it -without concern for weight. The X3 feels quite compromised -it is quite good at everything but does not excel.

Finally, I love fold down tailgates. I do a lot of mountain biking, skiing, etc. and love a place to sit and gear up.

Check out both vehicles but, pay attention to subtle subjective differences.

what is not correct , what are you trying to say ,seems like you just added more words to what i already said , none if my info is incorrect ,it says in the X3 handbook that it utilises rear wheel drive predominantly .
the xdrive vehicles feel more like a rear drive car .no big deal because the 38% 62% car is fine . the xdrive does potentially offer better traction options if you get really stuck .
i almost got stuck on a very narrow cobbled steep hill in Edinburgh whist turning car around i had to reverse uphill but one rear wheel spun on dry surface , you need to press the dsc button to make traction control work whereas the xdrive would shift more drive to front wheels in that event thus saving embarassment .
as for sport suspension , it`s not comfortable on anything less than a smooth road , not good to be pounding a baby , i know what i`m talking about . x3 sport has the worst suspension i have ever experienced , x5 sport nowhere near as bad .

I think that you need to go back to your original statement, ie: "hi, i drive a 2002 X5 4.4i sport auto permanent 4wd , the 2004 onwards have xdrive , this means they usually only drive the rear wheels so that you feel as though driving a rear wheel drive." This is incorrect. Both xDrive and non-xDrive X5s are essentially permanent 4WD vehicles. xDrive X5s don't "usually only drive the rear wheels", they usually drive all four wheels.

Here's a quote from BMW's technical info on (X5) xDrive: "In normal driving situations, the drive torque is distributed in the ratio of 40:60 between the front and the rear wheels. xDrive can also vary torque between front and rear axles depending on the driving conditions and can distributed drive torque briefly to one axle in extreme conditions."

What you X3 handbook says is irrelevant as we were discussing xDrive and non-xDrive X5s.

Hallo again. I think I decided I will be buying an X5 after all. Just a quick question, the car i am interested is registered on May 2005 and is advertised as coming with 'Self-Levelling Rear Axle'. Is this part of the xdrive? How do I find out if the car actually has xdrive? I asked the salesman at the dealership and he told me that the car does have it. On the car specifications on the bmw website I cannot find it anywhere though. Is there a 'cut off point' where X5s came with Xdrive? If so, would May 2005 be a post xdrive vehicle?

Thanks again!

Sorry, I only just read this again. that applies to UK cars too, right?

Thanks!

XDrive is from 2004 on. The self-levelling suspension is an unrelated option. Also, if you are buying a 3.0d diesel, the 2004 update bought a much improved engine. In Australian spec the 3.0d engine went from 135kW and 390Nm to 150kW and 480Nm and I believe the UK models enjoyed a similar update.

Yes, it is a 2005 car which is an X5 3.0d Sport. They want £19,897 for it, the car has

67K on the clock. It is a Diesel with Black Dakota leather interior. Is this a realistic price or am I paying too much you think?

If you wish to do some mild off-roading as you mentioned originally, I wouldn't go for a Sport. What you want is the standard wheel/tyre and suspension package.

Thanks for that. Why would you advise against the sports version? Is it because it is harder on the suspension or something else?

When I mean off roading, I mean nothing like your profile picture. I am referring to driving on dirt roads very sensibly, in order to get into farms and salt marsh.

Sports suspension gives a firmer ride. The Sport models also come with bigger wheels and lower profile tyres than the standard 235/65R17s which is also an off-road negative in terms of ride and puncture resistance. But if you are only taking about "driving on dirt roads very sensibly", the Sport package won't be a major compromise but it will still be a compromise. It all depends on how often you'll be driving away from sealed roads and the distances you plan to cover on these "dirt" roads.

Well, Maybe do a couple of miles each way on a dirt road, 4-5 times a year. This is all.

Really, a very, very light use. As a matter of fact, I have taken my 330 ci SE (E46) down these roads (doing 10mph by the way ;) ). I just want to be able to do more with my X5, that is all. So maybe not having to worry about potholes and a rock hitting my undercarriage, this is my worry at the moment. I cannot take my E46 there, but I want to be able to take the X5...

Congrats on your decision on the X5 - it will get you down the dirt road for sure. Just curious, what was/were your deciding factors or observations in ruling in favor of the X5 vs. the X3 based on the test drives? Just curious! ;)

Yes, the X5 just felt better driving. I do not know, just a feeling really!

:popcorn:ok , here is info from the bently x5 manual ,you can see how i reached the conclusion , i don`t have access to the x3 manual right now but read this and see what conclusion you can draw from it .

I find the explanation in top two photographs ambiguous, if not contradictory. However, the bottom page where it says at the top, "In normal driving .... torque split of approx 40% front to 60% rear" is essentially the same as the BMW tech info I quoted.

Congrats on X5 purchase. :thumbup:

I test drove X3 a couple of years after it came out, and I was not impressed. The overall interior didn't have the 'rich' look that I expected from that kind of a price tag, the doors closed with a clunky noise, etc. I was not impressed at all and neither was my wife (and she was the one that wanted an x3.)

Recently test drove X3 again, and had the same feeling. Looked at X5 and bought a used one.

At one of our repairs, the dealer gave us an X3 loaner with M package and navigation... very nice ride for sure... was a lot sportier and faster than our X5, but size wise it was no where near what X5 offers, regardless of the specified volume numbers. (usable volume is different than just volume.) Front seats/rear seat space seemed very much the same as my wife's 2007 328i. It basically felt like a lifted hatchback 3 series. With a car seat in the back, I could not wait to get my own X5 back, even though it didn't have the same speed/sportiness of the X3 loaner.

:popcorn: ok whatever . the explanation of how the system works is there in print for you , if you can`t get your head around it then believe what you want , it`s no big deal , but you are still trying to bullshit what i said so that is why i took pics for people to understand what i said . you are correct in what you say about the 40% to 60% split when it is utilising 4 wheel drive but as i am trying to explain there is much more to the X drive system than just that alone . it is still predominantly rear wheel drive . you can look up the word predominantly in the dictionary if it doesn`t make sense to you .:thumbup:

Yes, it may be predominately rear wheel drive (ie. 40F/60R) but that's along way from your original statement "the 2004 onwards have xdrive , this means they usually only drive the rear wheels". The fact of the matter is they usually drive all four wheels.

Riddle Me This Batman ,
the pre 2004 uses planetary gears in transfer case to distribute torque.
the post 2004 xdrive uses a clutch to distribute torque so at 50% front and 50% rear the clutch is fully engaged to front .
at 40% front and 60% rear there must be some slip in the clutch to control torque to the front.
how long can the clutch pack sustain this slip .

For the life of the transmission if that is what it is designed to do...

Just because they call it a clutch it does not mean that it is the same design as the clutch on a manual transmission, which would wear out if habitually run only partially engaged. The clutch on a manual transmission is designed to run fully engaged most of the time and to not slip, the xDrive transfer clutch clearly is designed to slip most of the time.... Think of it more like the torque converter on a auto box.