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FSETH 10-19-2009 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c4racer (Post 671254)
I checked with my local auto parts store and they sell the same PN BKR6EQUP for $9.95 and it is listed as the "OEM plug". Whatever that means.

Ask them if the full part number is BKR6EQUP 12129071003? That is the full NGK OEM plug #. If the number that follows BKR6EQUP is different, it is not OEM spec. Not saying it won't work, but it is not OEM.

m5james 10-20-2009 12:04 AM

Call NGK directly and see if someone can explain the differences. Even if they last 100k, I'd rather only spend $40 instead of $200 if no one can explain any discernible difference besides a part # variation. If NGK can give you concrete evidence otherwise, I'd be buying from Amazon or whoever has the best price all day long. Of course Amazon isn't going to list some 16 digit blah blah blah number BMW uses. Last time I did spark plugs on my 740iL, I ordered them from Auto Parts at AutohausAZ - OEM Auto Parts - Discount Replacement Parts, Resources and Car Care Tips and they've worked perfectly fine.

After watching an episode of 'How It's Made', I'd NEVER pay $20 for a spark plug. I've higher powered, turbo charged cars that demand more from their plugs than the M62 and I've never paid that much, ever. At some point you have to draw the line at manufacturer propaganda and just plain common sense.

My 7 came w/ completely different OEM tires that what I'm using now. Just because it came OEM, that doesn't mean its the best of the best. I really don't see this as any different.

FSETH 10-20-2009 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m5james (Post 671373)
Of course Amazon isn't going to list some 16 digit blah blah blah number BMW uses.

I don't think Amazon would ever stock OEM BMW plugs, but that is just me. Many people have had issues with the lesser similar badged Bosch platinum Plus 4 plugs, I would bet the same can be said for the cheaper, non-recommended NGK's.

I view plugs and rubber differently, but that is also just me. We will sit here and post numerous threads about which oil and filters to use, what air filters, what brand of gas, but yet we wont use a part that BMW recommends for the engine? :dunno:

c4racer 10-20-2009 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FSETH (Post 671356)
Refer back to post #5 by CharlieHustle. Bosch (who is an OEM supplier) does it, so I would say it is not out of the question for NGK to do the same. The actual part numbers from the cheaper NGK plugs on Amazon.com are different from the BMW recommended plugs on Realoem.com, so it appears so.

Really, the plugs only need to be changed every 100k or so. Why not just buy the part number BMW recommends?

Because I don't like throwing away money. If the part was really different, I have no issue. But from the research I have done - it is the same thing just re-labeled with a BMW PN and marked up double to create profit for the dealers since very few BMW owners would dare think to change a spark plug themselves...

According to the NGK site, the PN for the 4.6is plug is BKR6EQUP, and
3199 is what they refer to as a "Stock number".

These sites all suggests the NGK BKR6EQUP is the same thing as the BMW OEM PN - 12129071003. In other words - the 1212... is the BMW PN and the BKR6EQUP is the NGK PN. Doesn't seem to me there is anything different about them other than when BMW sells them they charge double the price.

BMW Spark Plug "High Power" NGK BKR6EQUP (3199) 12129071003 - RM European Auto Parts

NGK SPK PLUG BKR6EQUP (12129071003)

3199 NGK Multi-ground Plug. Part# BKR6EQUP Case of 120 (3199, BKR6EQUP, N123199, NG3199) | Audi Reports

NGK 12129071003-220 for only $10.36 from KO Performance

BMW Spark Plug E46 All except M3 12-12-9-071-003 / 12129071003 - Bimmer Parts Web

I guess I could call NGK North America just to be sure. But I really don't want to throw away over $100 for no reason if the BMW PN is exactly the same as the NGK PN. That is pure profit for somebody the way I am reading it. I'd rather not support the economy in that fashion. I'll spend it somewhere else and spread the love around instead!!

c4racer 10-20-2009 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FSETH (Post 671361)
Ask them if the full part number is BKR6EQUP 12129071003? That is the full NGK OEM plug #. If the number that follows BKR6EQUP is different, it is not OEM spec. Not saying it won't work, but it is not OEM.

not exactly.

12129071003 is a BMW PN, not a NGK PN.

BKR6EQUP is the NGK PN.

besides,
I have had many race/street engines including one 540hp 11:1 CR 383 SBC V8 that ran great with $3 autolite spark plugs. There is really nothing magic about a spark plug as long as the heat range is correct and the tip design is compatible with the head / piston configuration.

I also know a little about mfg, and it seems very unlikely to me that NGK would make a special variant of a plug for an OEM and still sell it under the same NGK PN as the regular plug. If Bav Auto listed it under only the BMW 1212... PN, then I could buy the argument there is something different about it. But since they list both the NGK PN and the BMW PN that is further evidence that there is only one plug, and there is a BMW PN for it and a NGK PN for it.

Interestingly enough, I looked up the NGK plug for my S4 and turns out it is the same PN. haha!! That is funny. Although for whatever reason you need to replace them every 60K miles. I think I went with the Bosch the last time I changed them.

Note there is also an Audi PN listed, but the same NGK PN:
Audi S4 Spark Plug at Auto Parts Warehouse

JCL 10-20-2009 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c4racer (Post 671398)
I also know a little about mfg, and it seems very unlikely to me that NGK would make a special variant of a plug for an OEM and still sell it under the same NGK PN as the regular plug. If Bav Auto listed it under only the BMW 1212... PN, then I could buy the argument there is something different about it. But since they list both the NGK PN and the BMW PN that is further evidence that there is only one plug, and there is a BMW PN for it and a NGK PN for it.

I wouldn't put too much trust in what a web programmer wrote on some page, it isn't exactly proof.

I don't specifically know about this example of BMW and NGK part numbers, but as you know about manufacturing, you will have experience with manufacturing lot numbers. The part in your hand is described by a part number, but it is also part of a specific manufacturing lot. In my industry, we have the same situation as these spark plugs, often with bearings and other similar parts that are outsourced. We use engine manufacturer numbers for replacement bearings, and you can often get the same bearing from a bearing manufacturer, using the reference number stamped on the bearing.

The difference can be that a part fails a QA test, and that entire lot is discarded or simply not accepted by the engine manufacturer. Even if it isn't accepted by the engine manufacturer, it may pass the internal inspection, and thus can be sold under the original part number by the outsourcer. It can then end up on Amazon.com, and it very well may be fine in use.

I don't know that this is the situation with NGK plugs; I like NGK plugs, and I use them, but them having the same part number as a BMW-sold item really just means they have the same thread, reach, and heat range. They may not be produced in the same factory, with the same QA process, or with the same inspection results.

Given the damage I have seen inside performance engines from spark plug failures, I would just use the BMW part number. It isn't a guarantee, but it does offer some form of risk mitigation IMO.

Just my $0.02

FSETH 10-20-2009 09:48 AM

OK...I just called NGK's technical support. The rep. basically told me that the OEM NGK plugs, which are more expensive, will typically last 80k-100k miles and are laser platunim with 4 nickel grounds. The cheaper NON-OEM iridium plugs typical life is 40k-50k miles and have 1 ground.

He said that the iridiums will actually give a very slight performance advantage, but at the expense of a much shorter life.

So c4racer, you can buy those plugs from Amazon and save money now, but you will have to replace them twice as often. If you don't change them yourself, I would bet the cost to have them replaced negates any initial savings.

Hope this helps.

dkl 10-20-2009 11:28 AM

FSETH,
The question isn't really the difference between the OEM NGK plug and iridium, it's whether the BMW branded NGK laser platinum BKR6EQUP (BMW stock #12129071003) = NGK branded laser platinum BKR6EQUP (NGK stock #3199).

salia 10-20-2009 11:46 AM

Spark Plugs
 
Hi All,

Unfortunatley I dont have much input on the subject. I am actually getting to get an oil change for my 2002 X5 3.0 with 45K miles. Just wanted to confirm based on the INSPECTION II that I should be changing my spark plugs at this time. If so I will probably go with the NGK spark plugs based on everyone's threads.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks

Steve

FSETH 10-20-2009 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salia (Post 671490)
Hi All,

Unfortunatley I dont have much input on the subject. I am actually getting to get an oil change for my 2002 X5 3.0 with 45K miles. Just wanted to confirm based on the INSPECTION II that I should be changing my spark plugs at this time. If so I will probably go with the NGK spark plugs based on everyone's threads.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks

Steve

OEM plugs are not due to be changed until 100,000 miles.


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