01 X5 4.4I 6spd Manual
 

I was sitting in my car after school waiting for it to warm-up and i was thinking is it possible to make a 01 X5 4.4 Auto in to a 01 X5 4.4 6spd Manual ?

I figured since my X5's tranny is already done with no first gear and reverse, and i'm an good stick shift driver. You take the everything out from a E39 540i 6spd Manual and put it into my X5 4.4. They are both same engines, same set-up. Why not?? :dunno:

Although it would be a first

What do you guys think ??:popcorn:

Not sure if its possible but, didnt X5's have manuals? (rare) or was it limited to 3.0's.

m5 tranny?

It was limited to 3.0

or from 540 might work

I`m in . I mean I want to keep an eye on this to see who gets there first .

Only on 3.0's

M5 tranny!! I wish but the M5 tranny is a 4.9L and the 540i is a 4.4L same as my truck

I'm not 100% i'm going to do this but it would be nice though

The manual trannys only came on the 3.0's. But, the Lemans X5 had a manual. Not sure where it came from. I would love a manual on my X5 4.8is. I asked this same question a number of months ago, but, to date I dont think anybody has done one. As our cars age, and the auto boxes wear out, I am sure somebody will give it a go. I am not sure how much fabrication would be involved though.

How do you drive a car in NY without first or reverse gears? :dunno: Must be pretty scarry. I think, unless you are doing the work yourself, you should check with your indy to see if they are comfortable with doing this. Interesting thought, but I'd stick with the automatic...or trade for a stick. I would also be a little concerned about resale value as well.

1) yes it is possible. A e39 540i 6 speed manual transmission would bolt on to your engine, you just have to change the rear output shaft to have it mate properly to the transfer case, new flywheel and possibly the bell housing.

2) your current bmw computer that controls everything is useless, wiring harness useless, any misc control units, useless. New wiring harness = very expensive, dsc, tracation programs, etc etc etc would all not function correctly, there are aftermarket alternatives that will bypass these obstacles but very costly. If this were an off-road vehicle only, go for it.

As far as cost, it would be far cheaper to grab a reman auto transmission as even though it is physically possible to change out the auto box for a manual, it will be far more costly than servicing you now retired autobox, not to mention doing a swap will be far more time consuming.

Say a pressure plate and clutch disc alone is roughly $1000, this doesn't include clutch pedals, or anything else, these parts will add up quite quickly.

:bustingup :bustingup :bustingup ok see this is why i said i'm 100% hahaha. I think you made my mind say NO!!!! Thanks a lot Really made me think about everything and it was worth it

The 535 (Europe only), E34 540 (5spd) , E39 540/M5 (6spd), 740i (Europe only) and the 840csi all share the same/similar manual transmission. I'm currently converting my 740iL to a 6spd, but its not as easy as simply bolting the trans and driving. I have to order parts only available in Europe...new brake and clutch pedal set, master and slave cylinders for the clutch, transmission itself and a custom made driveline. The way around the computer for 7 owners is to flash the ECU w/ 540 software so it doesn't freak out and give 'Trans Failsafe Error' codes everyday while driving it. The problem w/ the X5 as Swiss mentioned is the transfer case and the X being AWD, then you've got a while different issue w/ the ECU since the only X in a 5spd is the 3.0. If you converted it to a RWD only and bypassed the AWD (god only knows how the computer would react, let alone if it'd even run correctly w/o seeing the transmission) system all together. Unless you're willing to spend at least 2-3k in parts (lowball estimate), you'd be able to bolt a 6spd to your X. Your honestly better off getting onto Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market or Bavarian Engine Exchange & Rebuilt BMW Parts 's junkyard division and buying a used trans if you're not willing to fix the one you have now. Shops like Koala Motorsports quote at least $10k to do this job, but I'm doing the work myself, so i'll be into it about 1/4 to 1/2 that after its all said and done.

E53 diesels also had the option of manual boxes, a five-speed pre- 2004 update and a six-speed post update. The post update diesel had more torque than the 4.4 V8 so it should handle the V8. This may be an option but it still doesn't make for a simple conversion.

true, except for the bell housing on the transmission, not compatible.

Can't change the bell housing?

Yeah, I was gonna say...isnt the diesel an I6? To be honest, I have no clue :-/ I'm still learning a few things here and there about the US X5's vs other countries.

Yep, 3.0-litre I6.

This I cannot confirm... It is possible, but seems like it wouldn't be cost effective now that you also have to source a v8 manual transmission bell housing.

I think the other problem is that it would be pretty tough to just take a bell housing and not the entire transmission... Just my two cents

I'll have to get under the X5 sometime and see how much different the transmission bellhousing is, but from what I'd imagine in my head, I still think the easiest mechanically and hardest electronically is to make the X a strictly RWD vehicle. I've only seen YouTube videos of the LemMans X5, so maybe I or someone else can lookup information to see what it took to make it a 6spd.
EDIT - While I'm limited to using my phone to search for info at the moment, I found this on Google 2000 BMW X5 Le Mans Concept Pictures, Specifications, and Information I have no idea how accurate the information is about if its still AWD. I keep visualing a transmission w/ the transfer case right there w/ it, but as I said, I haven't been under there yet...just guessing. I'm fine having a RWD only X5. I've even seen posts where poeple discussed removing the front CV joints, but I haven't heard of anyone having the guts to do it. I get pretty healthy winters here in Boise, so the AWD would be nice...but then again I've driven my 7 and M5 (no traction control at all) in the snow w/o any major issues.

I wouldn't see any issue with you leaving the x5 AWD as long as the manual tranmission splines match and that the tranmission is the same length.

I've still got this weird picture in my head of the X's setup under there. The transmissions are definetaly a different length, which is why I've had to find someone to make me a custom lengthed driveline. I've wanted an X5 in a stick ever since I almost got the 3.0, so being in a 4.4 would be better. Once spring come back around or I hit the 100k mark on the X, i'll have to drag the tranny over the X and start taking a closer look.

I agree to disagree, every 5hp24 uses the exact same transmission casing. Where they differ in length is the output shaft, where there is often an extension (as on my landrover) however in the case of the X5, a transfer case bolted directly to it. Once that is remove the length is considerably reduced.

This should help get my thoughts across.
http://members.shaw.ca/allbusiness/5hp24/sec.jpghttp://members.shaw.ca/allbusiness/5hp24/sec.JPG

On the x5, this is where the xfer case would bolt onto
http://members.shaw.ca/allbusiness/Lr/CIMG4057.JPG

on my land rover, among other vehicles, uses this extension housing.
http://members.shaw.ca/allbusiness/5hp24/ext.JPG

It will become clear whenever you take a closer look at it yourself, but your move James. lol

I meant the difference in length between the auto and the 6spd. I'll have to look at these pics when I get home...thanks for posting them up.

Hi James, were you able to carry on with this idea? I am in a similar position where the tranny is on its last leg. Making the 4.4i into a dedicated RWD manual car sounds like a great idea.

Would you provide some info of your 740iL tranny swap as well?

if you were to do something like that you might as well go big or go home and just swap a better motor in at the same time, like the e39 m5 motor since the most involved part of the swap will be the transmission the motor you would just need to get mounts that work and get the proper wiring done.

also, a manual transmission will only be 2wd, the guy i bought my x from talked pretty extensively about the swap, but the only thing i would want to swap in would be an M v10:thumbup:

Thanks for your comment. If I want to go big or go home, I won't even bother messing with the x5 altogether. I would get 997TT , lambo, ferrari, etc etc instead, but that is not what I am asking, nor I was asking for your input.

sounds like a good idea! just need the directions on how it can be done. might as well just put a new engine and tranny combo in the x. M5 v10!!!!!!!!!

If I was to the point where I wanted to do the major surgery, I'd use the 03 M5 transmission mounted to 03 540i bell housing if it is different on the M5, and graft on the 03 land rover transfer case. That was one of the years of rover that used the BMW engine and transmission etc. and the driveshaft is similar, just kinda reversed from ours in placement of u-joints and guibo joints. But the transfer case in the rover is fully selectable ie: 2wd, 4wd and low range.

That setup would make the perfect X5 to me! 4.6is engine, M5 manual transmission AND fully selectable transfer case where I could use 2wd and low range. :drool:

I am fully confident I could make this work mechanically/physically, but the hardest thing that I'm not fully sure I could get done would be the wiring. I know first hand the integration and communication between the DME, EGS and DSC... and it would likely take some custom wiring and programming by BMW engineers to get right. And it would only work with 03 and earlier X5s as the N62 engine is too different.

Honestly, I haven't even been under it lately as I'm on an extended trip to Seattle before I goto Abu Dhabi for a year. Mechanically, since it's the same engine for the 540, 740 and X5, there is no reason why bolting a 6spd and getting a custom driveline made wouldn't get you a RWD only X5. Since the 740iL doesn't come in 6spd (740i's in Europe only, still no iL's), I had to get a driveline made...cost around $400 shipped to my door.

Do you know how many people say the same thing and never do it? It's the biggest dream and the biggest budget as well. Sure, it's a similar block with a larger bore, but everything above and beyond that is entirely different and it's not realistic. I've seen maybe 1 S62 conversion that was done into a 740iL, and god only know how it truely drives on the road and in real world conditions because it was made into a show car, so the most road time that vehicle probably gets is on and off a trailer. You make it sound like the proper wiring is just something some guys can do in their garage over a weekend...it's not that simple. If someone it serious about doing this, save the $5-8k you'd blow on the engine alone, throw a custom turbo kit or a premade S/C kit from VF on there for around $6k and save yourself the wiring headache of an engine conversion.

Realistically, no shade tree mechanics will be swapping S62 into an M62 chassied car anytime soon because the dreamers realized how cost prohibitive it truely is. I looked into it as well since I had to replace my 7's engine within 4k of ownership. Swapping an LSx engine would be 10x easier (because it's been done plenty of times) and they have an obscene aftermarket following...do that, then we'll talk.

No difference there, that's engine displacement. You definitely could pull it off, but most likely you would lose your AWD, due to computer problems.\

To be honest, I'd love to do an S62 swap in my truck and make it into a true, one-of-none E53 X5M, but after seeing the amount of time it's taken to get one working in my friend's Z4, I don't think I could bring myself to do it, unless I got a motor stupid-cheap and could figure out a way to wire it right. I think the best approach would be to wire up the ITBs as a single unit and use 1 MAF, so that the factory computer could just think it's an M62. As far as VANOS, I would think an RPM window switch would work on that too.

Engine displacement has no relation to the transmission as they're two completely different things that are only tied together via a bellhousing and some bolts. I've seen a handful of 3 series (one being a touring) that had a LSx motor dropped in but still using the stock BMW transmission because they had a bellhousing made so the two could mate up. The V8 engine in your X5 is a block that has been around for YEARS before the X5 was even being produced, ranging in displacement from 3.0 to 4.9 and has been used in 5, 7 and 8 series vehicles that could fit a V8 between the frame rails. The M5 6spd that I dropped into my 740iL is actually the same trans used in the 540, 840, etc...but it sounds cooler in my sig to say M5 6spd :)

It's been done, but I'm not sure if it's AWD anymore. While having AWD is nice in Boise winters, I'd rather have a 6spd manual for the increased gas mileage (gained 4mpg in the 740iL) and cool factor for the other 9 months when it's not snowing...AWD is for people without track experience and/or vehicle control skills ;) I would just as easily drive my no traction control having M5 to work just as I would taking the X...and I've done it before.

Yeah, but S62 + blower + AWD = AWD burnouts = Gnarly.

I forgot to reply to this when you first posted these pics, but the bellhousing, transfer case, etc pics that you posted are irrelevant since whoever does this is going to be swapping in the 540/M5 transmission in anyways, so unless they're attempting to somehow keep the AWD system, all that would be required after the trans swap would be a driveline as I did in the 7.

What did you do to trick the ECM and/or TCM so they think the auto tranny is still there and working normal? How different do you think the electrial aspect would be different with an 01 x5?

Taking out the front diff, diff casing, cv joints would save a bunch of weight too. That 6spd 740iL swap sounds super sweet.

It's just programming on the computer. Before people we're coding the cars to make them think they were 540's instead of 740's, but people have found ways around that in case they had custom software that they didn't want erased and are able to just get the 540 transmission software parts of the code transferred over instead of the whole ball of wax. The X5 would be an interesting attempt since it's similar yet different to the 540/740, but still it's own beast with the AWD system. My 740iL is non VANOS as well, so it's not like I could copy the code from my 740iL onto a VANOS X5 for the sake of saving time. It'd take some work, but I don't doubt it can be figured out one way or another. At worst, if not coded, the vehicle will still drive, you'll just have constantly nagging transfail safe codes on the OBC.

I agree that the weight savings would be pretty substantial. I take out the spare tire everytime I'm back home in Boise and then throw it back in for roadtrips just for the sake of saving weight while doing my normal driving around town...that damn spare is heavy! There is like 10% more loss between the auto compared to the 6spd, so gas mileage went up as well. Compared to some other's, my 7 is still pretty stock even with the 6spd since I still haven't gone FI...the biggest difference still being my engine rebuild. There are a few 740's floating around with 6spd and superchargers, or Rob from UUC owns 750iL with an 850csi 6spd transmission swap. It's still a pretty unique upgrade, so I'm happy to be part of a select few. Next major mod...STS style turbo :)

James, if one put in a 540 transmission and wanted to keep the AWD odds are most likely the tail shaft can be unbolted and the transfer case fitted on as long as the splines are the same.

Now as I say this my only real life experience with this is on old fords... we made a 2wd bronco the same weekend a making an E150 van 4wd. Bronco got lowered sport suspension and hopped up 351w w/5 speed manual and the van got 4" lift w/38" TSL boggers and a built 351c paired to a beefed up C6 auto. (that was a fun mudder!)

Thanks for the info. I don't know about leaving the car as is since we have smog inspection here every two years, CEL would be a problem for that. Do you have a timeline on when you will have this setup on your car, if at all?

Wasn't the original Transporter a 6spd iL? Did you document your swap somewhere? I couldn't believe when I google 740i manual swap, this thread is already on the first page. Goes to show the scarcity of this swap on the web.

Funny, guys always call me The Transporter when I drive the 7, while girls (most of them have never seen Transporter) call me Bruce Willlis...must be the haircut ;)

Anyways, the 7 used in the Transporter was actually a 735i, not a 740, 750 or an iL. They came is manual over there, but still not in iL's.

I miss those days of doing that stuff to mine and friends' rigs...

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...28Medium29.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...28Medium29.jpg

What ever happened to this thread.

I am going to tackle this by the end of the year. Sourcing the parts over the next few months.

absolutely want to ditch the awd system completely, and just get a custom driveshaft done, remove the front axles and all the bs. Better mileage, better performance, and less bs to break.

I am working on finding out the ecu now. Did anyone ever figure it out or do the swap?...

I have already sourced all the 3.0L manual interior pieces, as well as the trans.

We have done a ton of LSx swaps, and manual conversions to other cars, so I am not to worried about the mechanical end of it... I just want the car to work when I am done lol.

nice! good luck! :thumbup:

There are a handful of member on this forum who have the capability of coding so that you won't constantly get Trans Failsafe messages on your OBC. I'd suggest hoping onto Diagnostic Software - Bimmerforums - The Ultimate BMW Forum, create your own thread and see if some of the VERY knowledgeable people there can assist you or even help you purchase a premade laptop so you can do the coding yourself in your garage.

Hardware isn't the issue as everything bolts in....your firewall already has the precut areas for the pedals, obviously the trans will line up w/ the same hole for the shifter, remove all the ATF cooling lines (maybe even get a different radiator, I can't remember if the X5 3.0 has cooling lines running through it), then it comes down to tricking the computer, wiring the reverse lights, etc. Other than the trans and the clutch, all other parts, bits and pieces, etc came from www.getbmwparts.com. A custom drive shaft can be made for around $450 (that's what it cost me) or you can attempt to find on online via junkyard sites like www.carpart.com, but I bet finding a wrecked 3.0 5spd will be few and far between. I'm out of town now, but once I get home, I can give you the driveshaft supplier information for the guy myself and others have used for the 6spd conversion we've done in our 7's, but you'll still need to find the exact specs/measurements needed before you can order it.

If you get this done and working I might just pay you to do one for me :) Hec you might have just found a new line of work converting old E53's

I'm already a BMW mechanic and I've got the laptop needed...will fly/drive as long as you have a decent set of tools and have already purchased all the needed parts.

So I have my list of parts needed. I have come up with what I think is a solution for everything including the shift linkages and clutch/flywheel/pressure plate combo. Drive shaft will be done here locally by someone we use on the regular.

Just searching a few more tid bits of info, like a solution for the cps and a few other ecu tweaks.

I will be doing a 5 speed swap from the 530i M60b30 motor tho to keep the costs down. That transmission uses the same ZF box as the e36 M3's, Plenty of strength there, My race car makes 550ft/lbs at the wheels through the same box, so it should hold up to the 275lbs this one makes as well as the added x5 weight. Also I have a few spares.

The 3.0L trans will not bolt up to the m62, There is not a bell housing that will make it the correct length for all of the shifting or iinput shaft/clutch to line up either. Plus the s5d 280z trans is not very strong.

The clutch pedal assm is part of the brake pedal on the manual 3.0 so there is no mounting at all. The hole for the master line is also there with a cap over it.

All that is usable from the 3.0l is the interior bits and the pedal assm.

I know the 4.4 and 3.0 engines use different transmissions. Your doing this on a 3.0l engine though while you're on a 4.4 titled thread. I'm saying that I've done the conversion on my 740iL and that you could source parts from some of the same suppliers I used.

I am doing it to a 4.4L with the 530i 3.0L V8 transmission. The 3.0 would just be a factory swap...

That clarifies things then.

Im assuming the 530i you're referring to is the E34...isn't that only a 5 spd and not a 6 like the E39 540/M5 swap like I did?

Any updates on this? Pondering a swap in my 4.8is.

I imagine I would have to use a tranny from a 545i Sport?

My biggest concern is software as well.

Hi!

I have 4.6is with manual Getrag S6S Gearbox. AWD is full functional, everything, abslolute everything works as stock. The car drives perfect and has brutal acceleration.

We'll do some videos before Christmas, after testing phase, but so far everything seems to be OK.

Regards,

Nick

P.S: please, don't ask for details now, details will follow with videos in couple of months, after I'm sure there's no mechanical issues with the car.

P.P.S: the engine will be supercharged and (maybe) stroked in march 2013, if everything will be OK.

Nick, you're a legend!

Can't wait to hear more about your truck.

Nick stop teasing us all over the board. You are killing me.

Subcribed

How brutal you say?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...tallbrutal.jpg



Nick, you are all that is man, with a 6 speed in a 4.6is

:wow: Holy AWESOME! Can't wait to hear about this beast! Nick, Keep us in the loop. I've done a manual conversion on an e36, with full factory function, and I thought I was the man..... nope. My hats off to you. Post Vids when you can! Fully Subscribed.

I would like a 7 speed (or more) twin clutch if I could have anything in my X5. no desire to have it as a true manual.

Actually, we can convert this set up in to SMG 2 quite easily - we need the catuators and ECU for the drivelogic and we can either put more durable synchromeshs into the current gearbox or just take the M3 E46 gearbox, which now can be bolted on the transfercase with no problems. Just the SMG will stress the transfercase to much, in my opinion. But it's doable with no problems at all.

Regarding 7 or more gears - the stock S6S gear ratios are very close, whereat the 7 or 8 gear automatized-shift boxes usually have only 4 gears for actual acceleration, the other are for better gas milage.

So, comapred to stock 5-speed auto we now have a very usable 4th gear to fill the gap in acceleration, comapred to auto. 5th gear is now as the 4th on auto (1:1) and the 6th is a bit shorter, than 5th gear on auto.

Here are the top speeds in each gear in comparison (in kph):

Aut. 4.6is 3.91 315/35/20
U/min 1000 2000 3000 4000 5000 6000 6500 6800 6900 7000
1. 9.5 18.9 28.4 37.8 47.3 56.7 61.4 64.3 65.2 66.2
2. 15.3 30.7 46 61.4 76.7 92.1 99.7 104.3 105.9 107.4
3. 22.4 44.9 67.3 89.7 112.2 134.6 145.8 152.5 154.8 157
4. 33.8 67.5 101.3 135 168.8 202.6 219.4 229.6 232.9 236.3
5. 42 84 126 168 209.9 251.9 272.9 285.5 289.7 293.9

Getrag 3.91 315/35/20
U/min 1000 2000 3000 4000 5000 6000 6500 6800 6900 7000
1. 8 16 24 31.9 39.9 47.9 51.9 54.3 55.1 55.9
2. 13.4 26.7 40.1 53.4 66.8 80.1 86.8 90.8 92.1 93.5
3. 20.2 40.5 60.7 80.9 101.1 121.4 131.5 137.5 139.6 141.6
4. 27.5 55.1 82.6 110.1 137.7 165.2 179 187.2 190 192.8
5. 33.8 67.5 101.3 135 168.8 202.6 219.4 229.6 232.9 236.3
6. 40.8 81.5 122.3 163.1 203.9 244.6 265 277.3 281.3 285.4


I personally prefer manual gearboxes only because I can controll the stress and so also the durability just by my driving style, which is very relevant by cars getting old.

Now, with clutch engagement, the transfer case should last much longer, without abrupt stress caused by auto especially after changing from "R" to "D" on auto.

Here's my last picture I've done so far (please mind, the fornt driveshaft is off)

hated my friend's SMG M3 compared to my DSG A3 but that's pretty cool that you could go to SMG using parts of the shelf.

I so really, really want to be able to do this. Do you think this is doable on the 4.8is?

Also, how did you get rid of all the transmission faults in the computers? The car must be missing a bunch of stuff.

I'm actually not a big specialist in electronics, there's a lot of people beyond this little project, so I'm just 1/100 part, just the car's mine and I was looking for the right people for almost a year and first of all I had a tenacious wish to accomplish it.

We were able to start the engine just by shoting down the pin 8 on EWS, which is responsible for the clutch, but than we had all the lights on and nothing worked. Still the engine surprisingly ran on full power. We called a guy, who solved everything even with stock harness by tipping some default values to ECU, I don't exactly know what he's done, I wasn't even there, as he done all the stuff, but for him it was a 30 min task.

Regarding similar conversion on 4.8is, I don't know about the logic unit of xdrive, I think you have to go to a good programmer (like I did), which can transfer the data from the x-drive ECU taken from X3 manual and adapt them for X5. I

It's doable even with x-dirve, but it's an easier task with full mechanical unit like NV125 on M62-powered X5s.

The other thing is, if you intend to do it in USA, only the CAD developement of the connecting haousing will cost you a fortune, producing of casting moulds even with given CAD data will cost you another fortune....

So I did both in Russia (I'm russian by nationality).

But it wasn't possible in Russia, to produce the connecting shaft, because the slots on the shaft must be hardened by very special process, I let do one and tested it on a special machine and it was broken, because the metal in russia is shitty and the shaft needs the degree of hardening of 60, which wasn't realizable in Russia.

I met a guy here in Germany, who helped me alot, but even his first prototype was broken under static stress of 550 Nm, which wasn't bad at all, but the current one is capable to hold more than 600 Nm.

If you'd like to do the same thing I can provide you a similar connecting shaft if you give me a blueprint, but that's the most I can do in case of x-dirve and GS6-53BZ (545i) gearbox. But it's doable, of you really want it.

Regards,

Nick

>Nick

So it looks like the problem was not getting a tranny that would bolt up to the engine, but getting the tailshaft to mate with the TC???

Is that adapter plate between the tranny and TC?

And the connecting shaft you mention is the input shaft of the TC?

The gearbox bolts simply on all M60, M62 and S62 engines, while there never was any tailshaft or rear housing offered by BMW to connect the Getrag S6S gearbox with the transfercase.

The thing between tranny and TC is rather a housing, than plate. Unfortunately I had to discover, it's not possible to mill this part from a aluminium bulge, but only cast it, due to the very complex geometry and close space between transmission and bodywork. Furthermore, the adapter housing had to fit very tight to the gearboxes housing, to achiive the needed rigidity of connection.

Connecting shaft is the input shaft, welded on adapter to be bolted on the stock exit flange of Getrag.

Regards,

Nick

Well you see, that is one less problem. I am Russian too. Privet.

Yes, if this is doable, I am seriously going to research doing this here. My main problem is the transfer case, and the millions of sensors. I am pretty sure I can remove the transmission by coding. I am also pretty sure everything can be coded up. Just can't even imagine the task.

So the transmission bolted up to the car and engine no problem, correct?

Then I figure, well based on the pic, that you needed an adapter plate for the Transfer Case.

Which connecting shaft are you talking about?

Edit:Sorry for the delayed posting. Some of my questions were answered above.

Nick,
Impressive Buddy!

Is the rear 1/3 of the transmission outer case, a custom cast or from another gear box? I'm sure you looked at adapting everything you could from a manual 3.0/3.0d, including stuff like that. I think the engine management systems are different on the v8's, however the main wire harness is probably the same.

Agree with Skyline, looks like an adapter-plate to mate the the transfer-case with the tranny case.

With my e36 manual conversion, jumping and/or bypassing pins is what I did manipulate the computers. I left the automatic transmission computer intact. Most of the manipulation took place at wiring harness connecting to the old auto shifter. Sounds like it was a similar approach. I was able to trick the system and retain cruise control, and induce the clutch safety start.

However, this is more involved/complicated to manipulate than what I did. Full credit to you and your tenacity, to your mechanics/electrical engineers. Genius. Keep throwing us info!

Electronics and sensors are nothing compared to custom fabrication, you need an adapter housing which will cost you more than 2 used 4,8is to produce if you're gonna do it in outside Russia.

First of all you have to buy an 545i gearbox, take the rear part of housing off and bring it to 3D scanner. Now you have to import the data into CAD programm, you'll see a huge band of points, than you have to join the points to surfaces and join them together, you will do it for inner and outer surfaces twice. So you get the shape of your adapter housing. Than you will let produce a plastic modell to try it out on your rear gearbox housing and transfercase. If necessary, you have to do some corrections in CAD after that you have to cast your master form made of silicone. After that you can finally produce your adapter housing of aluminium alloy. It will look cheap and dirty, after that you have to correct all the casting mistakes and make all needed holes, brackets and so on. Now you have your adapter housing.

Just the producing of master form costs 35 000 Euro in Germany, without developing of CAD modell. The casting itself isn't expensive.

Now, if you look at your manual tranny - threre's an exit flange, where usually the propshaft is bolted on - so, how you're gonna connect it with your transfercase?

The connecting shaft is needed, which is also the input shaft into the transfer case. The hardening grade of this input shaft is 60 (just for comparison - the highest hardening grade, the russian high-tech industry can acchieve is 42) and the slots of the stock input shaft have even some special hardening. There was 3 prototypes made and these could'n last the stress, I was aiming to expect from the drivetrain.

The last input schaft was made with technology I even don't know about and I also won't tell you any details about (I was asked for)

So now after 11 months, you have your custom made housing and connecting shaft. Thats the right time to think about electronics, which was done in 30 min.

Assuming one could work out the electronics, I just wonder if it would not be easier to fit some sort of American transmission. Use an adapter plate between tranny and engine, (done all the time). Getting the tranny shaft splines to mate with the motor would be the only challenge. (I'd bet Advanced Adapters could make this! Probably means a custom or machined shaft for the tranny.) From there, it would all be easy mechanically. There are plenty of tailshaft adaptations available currently for HD manual transmissions that will allow bolting up to a TC. Bolt on a 249 TC from a FT 4WD Jeep or something similar,(bonus would be a low range). Mating it to the BMW driveshafts would be easy; ~$350 for each shaft or less. Just send both BMW shafts to Tom Woods, give him the measurements, and tell him what TC you are using. Done. Custom tranny/TC support, (again pretty easy).

No complicated castings. Stonger tranny. Stronger TC...with Low Range. Are not some of the BMW automatics sourced from GM? Maybe the spline mate up would not even require a custom tranny shaft to use a Corvette or other GM tranny???? Just an adapter plate. I'm pretty sure a Corvette 6 speed could be converted to 4WD with off the shelf parts.

If you are serious about doing this in the US...why not give Advance Adapters a call? They make all sorts of crazy drivetrain swaps possible.

Yes, and I forgot to mention, the whole shifting mechanism was custom made too. So I have a short-shifter.

I was thinking about installing the MB G500 TC and also other options, but my goal was to change as few parts as possible. And so, only 4 custom parts were made for this conversion.

The bodywork wasn't touched at all, nothing was moved from stock mountings.

The car drives and feels just as it came from factory and feels great at high speeds, drivetrain doesn't make any sounds and so on....

Using a different TC would mean I had to cut and weld the bodywork, without any idea, how it will work at the end - so that would only produce more sources for possible imperfections.

But still, it's an option - some one can try this way out.

Here's the screenshot of the offer I received from one german foundry.

As far as the TC's I was talking about, the AWD cases I was referring to are basically about the same size and shape as the BMW case, (logcal, since they all come from the same factory!) The tailshaft of the tranny with determine the "clocking" but that's not difficult to change. I don't think that would be an issue at all.

That price quote above is exactly why I suggested this...that's crazy expensive if I'm reading this right.

TC swaps are VERY common in the 4WD world here in the US. As a matter of fact I did one in my Jeep; ditching an AWD case for a 4WD case more robust that never came in that vehicle. I used a custom front shaft that replaced the CV joint with a robust U-Joint, (a real WEAK spot), and shortened the rear shaft. Not too expensive or difficult at all. Counting both shafts, a used TC from eBay, full rebuild parts for the TC, all told I spent about $800.

Wow, those prices are insane. I am going to say that is some expensive casting.

You know what we need to do. Is get RRPhil to take a look at his Transmissions, and let us know which BMW manual trans can accept the TC, and which trans can be rebuilt using the transmission output shaft from the auto.

I think you'd be better off carrying a BMW V8 crankshaft into a transmission shop, and seeing what fit in that.

True.

Check out this web page:

If anyone can make the right parts, I'd bet this place could:

Engine to Transmission Adapters | Advance Adapters

Once you have a T-5 or whatever bolted up to the engine, all the other mechanicals will be easy; everything would be off the shelf except driveshafts, which can be ordered inexpensively. These are trannies that can be built to take huge power, (worked LS1,3,9, etc), so that will not be an issue.

Then it's just the electronics, and that would seem quite difficult to me.

How can you find a different TC for some other tranny, keepeing the mountings in the same position? That will need some bodywork changes for sure!

The NV125 is very compact and light, thats one of the smallest TCs on the market, you hardly can find anything, which will fit into the tranny tunnel - it was even not an easy task to fit the adapter housing I used....

And as I allready said - you'll add some heavy offroad TC to a car which is supposed to go 160+ mph (which I'll do on autobahn). X5 isn't a jeep ot land cruiser, so if looking for different TC, so than one from Cayenne or at least from a never vehicle.

In that case I would rather buy a different chassis and put the X5 body on it...

The offer I'm stated was from german company, while I did it in Russia for much much less money. I was totally involved and that saved me a lot of money.

You can fit any transmission to the engine, just by milling the adapter for the bellhousing, or you can weld a suitable bell housing on T56 tranny or any other - one the only thing is to make a bulge for the starter and use the right flywheel.

The adapter kits, offered by the company you mentioned are ready kits, which were produced in some significant numbers, while mine is only one for now. Assuming, there will be like at least 10 orders for the adapter kit like mine the preice will shrink drastically.

So the request would be "how much would a development for the X5 tranny swap kit cost?"

Still I'm very interested in that - so who will contact them first?

? What do you mean? 540i flywheel will fit on that, but it has nothing to do with the bellhousing....

The easiest way is actually to get the manual tranny from the 3.0 X5 and blot on the housing from the 6-speed tranny from 545i on that. In case of 5 speed tranny from 3.0 pre-facelift and M5/540i tranny the bellhousings are even interchangeable, the thing is the bearings of the main shaft on 5-speed tranny are weak. You also have to use the flywheel and clutch from 545/550i or 6-series.

First of all, you have to find a guy, who can promise you, he will adapt the x-drive logic to the manual tranny and V8 - that's what I'd do first.

To clarify the statement I made, it was relating to using a non-BMW transmission,(for the purpose of avoiding custom tranny-to-TC connection.

So you'd need to find a tranny where the main shaft could be adapted to fit the pilot bearing, (and many times this is changed in swaps), and get a flywheel that can bolt up to the crank. Then either a custom bell housing or an adapter plate, and everything else is off the shelf. Since there are firms here in the US that make these kind of swap parts all the time, this may be a better route than trying to cast a mega-buck TC adapter and cut a custom shaft like you did. The "downside" is that you'd end up with a different feeling gearbox. The upside is that it would be a hugely strong gearbox and TC capable of handling any sort of power adders you wanted. For example there are TCs that come in the SRT and Hemi Jeeps / Durangos designed for a lot of HP and torque. Some use double width chains.

You don't get me - it would be a "mega-buck" TC adapter, if would do it in Germany, which I didin't.

My goal wasn't just to make it happen, but to do it the way, like I think it would be right.

In any case, you'll need an custom made shaft, which wasn't that exepensive either.

For 35 000 I could even order a heavy duty Drenth or Drexler rallye drivetrain for 1000 hp, or I could use an 6mm aluminium tube for 20$ and bore holes on ot just to connect the tranny and TC, so I'd do the same conversion for 1000$ total, using used parts like flywheel, clutch, clutch cylinders, cheap gearbox etc. I don't know how you will make a clutch egagement combinig BMW parts and some parts from different manufacturer, so your clutch would work properly, not to mention the clutch sensor, which is still engaged in my car...but it's doable and the car will move - if that's all that counts.

But as I said - it's doable on different ways and I'd love to see other V8 powered X5 with manual tranny.

By the way, considering some US-tranny swap, I'd swap the engine too - a LS1 powered X5 with AWD would be great!

Nick, so how much did the 4 custom parts cost you?

Also, what did you use for the flywheel, clutch, pilot bearing? Thanks.

There's a firm in Britain that has a business based on putting LS1s in the previous generations of Range Rovers, (the generation prior to the BMW motor, with the crappy 1962 Buick alloy V8). Apparantly the wiring was a major issue, but they got everything working. The problem is not getting the car to run; there's huge support for free standing ECUs and everthing. You can even buy a crate motor from GM Performance, California emissions legal, complete with fuel injection, ECU, all sensors, and Cats. The problem is getting everything else in the car to work like your dash.

May I answer this question better like this - the whole conversion cost me about the same as Brembo BBK for E53.

I had to use the regular 540i LUK dual mass flywheel and stock M5/540i clutch, pilot bearing was included in the clutch kit.

The very weird thing about the flywheel was that the M5 flywheel doesn't work on M62, even these parts look absolutely the same, the top dead point mark on M5s flywheel is different by 90 degree and you can set it up right even by determinig it manually, so if someone want's to do the same, please use only the 540i flywheel.

The pedals and clutch hydraulics were taken from X5 3.0.

The shifting mechanism was combined from X5 3.0 and 540i.

You're talking about the P38 Range and Overfinch, I presume. I love P38, someday I'm gonna buy one of these!

Actually, it's not necessary to get all electronics work - you can use an aftermarket ECU to make the engine run and keep the stock wiring, to get the main things working.

If everything will be OK with this conversion, I'll also instal LSD mulitclutch units into the diffs - I know a guy in Germany, who can make a great price for this, so with 2 locked axles there's no need in any DSC. So if I would go the LS1-way on X5, a couple of lights on the dash wouldn't bother me at all!

>Nick;

At that price level, I think you'd have other customers for the conversion bits. Overall, great job in getting this done.

Any kind of swap you can imagine is certainly possible if you throw enough money or engineers at the problem, (thinking about the LeMans X5!) But the fact that you've kept as many original or 540i/M5 BMW components as possible and done it without spending ridiculous money is what makes it exciting.

Wait so the entire thing cost you under $5k. That is a really good price considering everything works. Are there plans to mass produce your parts?

I meant all over 380mm rotors kit then - so it was a bit more:) But that includes everything also the workshop labor.

I think, if I had enough interested people (al least 5-6) I could provide such a kit for about $3-3,5k but without all the OEM BMW parts needed fot the conversion.

Going bigger Numbers, like 20 kits, such a kit would cost rather $1-1,5k.

But I have to mention this only works on M62 powered X5 AND only Getrag S6S with the latest TBAF code.

Right I keep forgetting this is the M62, not N62. Damnit. I wish you did this on a 4.8, then we would be in business. If only I had the time to research this. You did give me serious hope though.

I have no idea about x-drive adaptation, maybe it's easy, maybe it's impossible...

I would suggest to get an used NV125 TC and I can do an adapter (for like 150-200$, maybe less) to bolt the Getrag on N62.

SlickGT1,
I don't think it would be too hard to figure out for an N62 4.8is. I'm thinking out loud here. Honestly, x-drive may not be that hard to work around. It all stays intact. Remember that they made several manuals with x-drive, the X5 and X3, as well as some e60 5 series. Maybe others. Reverse engineer the difference on the electrical computer side. Sounds intimidating, but you'd have an "oh sh*t really?"moment when you see how easy it really it might be.

The e60 550i, GS6-53BZ 6-speed manual tranny would be a good candidate. It should bolt right up. Use all the available bits you can to connect the dots. You'd have to cross the bridge with connecting the T/C, but you have a working template to work from for ideas/solutions.Just throwing some ideas to you. Time and (for me, money too) are the biggest obstacles, but its a project you could be working on for the next year or so for you or anyone wanting to take it on. Imagine tearing the roads up with a manual 4.8is. That would be simply awesome.

That is true. The e60 trans might work. Can it handle the powa and weight / load of the X5?

The computer stuff does not scare me too much. You can pretty much remove every single option from the Vehicle Order with NCS Expert. I also think one can add options, from the X3 for example. So the coding part will most likely have to be the solution. If it comes down to it, and expert will have to be located.

Time and money is the issue for all of us. I would essentially need to buy another car if I am to start this project. That is something I can't imagine doing right now.

It would be cool as hell though. Definitely get rid of the current weak link in our cars, the trans.

My bet is yes. I'll try to find the specs. Its mated to a heafty car with the same motor/power. I'd put more faith in a good gearbox over a slushy any day. You "generally" can tell when a manual transmission is about to take a dump on you. An automatic, however good, can one day up and go to hell on you with out much warning. I know a little to well, especially with BMW automatics. There good, but complicated. Its a reliability vs durability issue.

Seems like they don't build stuff like they used to. As a teenager, I beat the hell out of an old e30 318i. Wasn't much life left in the ol' machine when I bought her, but good hell! I wouldn't die. It saved my life. I avoided a head on collision in a blind curve (not my fault) and went off into the shoulder, hit a culvert sideways, went airborne, and did a series of barrel rolls. It was all messed up. I was in the back-roads of North Carolina. No one around. (Late 1990's-no cell phone.)I managed to Roll it back onto all 4, put the battery back in. The front control arm was bent, so the tire was toeing in. No leaking gas, just broken motor mount. Started it up, looked through the driver side-window and drove it a gas station about a mile. Would not die! Cop gave me hell for moving the car. Most important thing, I didn't have not a single scratch or bruise. Needless to say, I bought another e30 to replace it. Wayyy off topic sorry.

Lol. Good story non-the-less. I keep researching the coding part. I have a theory on coding the crap out of my car, we might be able to add the manual options into the brains.

I asked the guy, who had decoded my car about x-drive and he couldn't dive me the answer quickly, but I'll have the info soon.

Mechanically, it is possible to couple the Getrag S6S on to N62 and also ATC 500 with the parts, I used in my conversion, by using adapter plates, which can be fabricated easily.

Anyways, as I've driven a couple of thousands miles with my conversion, I'm gonna do an internet page and I suppose in march 2013 I will also come up with the manual tranny conversion kit for N62 powered X5 E53. But, I suppose there will be much more stuff on the homepage, regarding also other BMW models.

So, I found out, adapting of x-drive on N62-powered X5 to manual isn't a problem at all, so it's doable and yes there will be a kit, which will also include the x-drive adaptation for manual tranny swap.

I just have to test the current 4.6is properly and hope nothing will break down.

In march 2013 I'll do a similar conversion of N62 powered X5 4.4.

Regards,

Nick

Wow, I love you long time. Please if you can do the legwork, I promise I will be in. If you will do this for sure for the 4.8 N62, I will start buying the necessary parts to get this done.

I read so much coding stuff yesterday night that my head still hurts. I still can't figure our how to remove FA SA codes with NCS. I know how to add them, but can't seem to remove them.

Thanks again for your effort. I really can't wait.

The only thing is I have to know, how many people will be in, because just one set wouldn't be interesting for me, I'd need at least 6 sets to offer them for adequate price.

In march I'm moving to new garage, where the 4.6is will be revised and supercharged, so the engine will be taken off the car. In that time I will do the adapter plates to fit the Getrag S6S on to N62 and also to the ATC 500 transfer case.

Regarding the electronics I will include the decoded ECU for the conversion, so it will be (almost) plug-and-play installation, but I will expect to get the stock ECU from the car, supposed to be converted.

You'll have to use the 545/645 or 550/650 flywheel and clutch set on your N62, other parts will be the same as in mine conversion.

The GS6-53BZ manual gearbox is rather rare, compared to Getrag S6S and the tailshaft isn't suitable for the adapter plate (housing) because the GS6 rear housing part is much bigger, than on Getrag S6S, which on the other hand consists of 3 parts.

BMW E39 M5 Getriebe Gearbox 4,9 V8 S62 Motor 6Gang M 5 Engine 150tkm | eBay

Getriebe BMW 545 i E60 /61 Getriebecode HGC | eBay

The GS6 gearbox is also bigger, than S6S, so even if there would be some suitable adapter palte, I really doubt, it would be possible to squese it in to the tight tranny tunnel.

I am sure that once you do this for the N62, others with the 4.8 and the 4.4 will do the conversion. If people are spending $3k on a rebuilt transmission when the auto dies, as long as your swap is better priced, people will switch to the manual. I guarantee you this.

Now factor in the fact that there are millions of these cars on the roads. They are getting cheaper, and the fact that the n62 is the V8 of choice in a lot of models.

I disagree. The reason that auto manufacturers are discontinuing manual transmission versions of their vehicles is simply because nobody is buying them. There will always be a core of enthusiasts who want a manual transmission, but relative to all the vehicles sold, the numbers are tiny. When I special ordered a manual transmission X3, my dealer hadn't seen one.

When something like 99% of automatics fail, switching to a manual transmission will not be a consideration. It is still a neat concept for those that do want it.

I disagree, with proper market, for example the X5 forums all over the world, there is a market. Those of us that are enthusiastic enough about this manual swap, are plenty. Think about how many people are buying these 4.8is now, those that will have the trans failure. Imagine having the option of getting a manual in there. I think the market is big enough to develop this swap.

I also don't think there will be that much interest for such a conversion, still 5-6 kits might be realistic.

I agree with JCL - nobody wants an manual gearbox nowadays, but still, there's a big difference between a new car with factory waranty and the car the owner realy likes and wants to keep it for longer - in that case a manual tranny seem to be a logical investment.

Think enthusiast, that could not justify spending $80k when new to buy a 4.8is. Now add on top of it an enthusiast that couldn't decide between a manual 3.Slow, and an auto 4.8. Now, with your expertise, both of these things can happen.

I think 6 kits is going to be easy for you. Especially since I promise to promote the hell out of it.

First I have to get confident this conversion works properly, I will do some top speed tests and also acceleration tests on autobahn with and without supercharger, which is ready to be installed.

I would very appreciate your promotion, thanks for that!

Privet Nick. Just wanted to let you know I keep dreaming of this. And willing to help with anything you might need from the US to get this project to happen. Thanks.

More pics. Videos follow. So far everything's OK.

Stop with the porn dude. You are killing me. lol. Can't wait to see a 4.8 on that lift.

#drool#

my 4.8is with a 6spd -----> i would die of excitement

Would the manual conversion be complete? More photos? Comments? Test drive yet?

Congratulations!

Could you please summarize what

• what year is your X5 (E53), iDrive or pre-iDrive
• components you used
• what was needed to make the transmission & transfer case mate
• changes / modifications to drive shafts
• same for shifter (if so)
• reprogramming of ECU (at minimum so it knows not to talk to the former automatic)
• flywheel & clutch you used
• other key points

Did you need to certify the car in the CIS (as you would need to do in most Western European country) something like TUV?

I described everything very carefully in my posts - just do read it.

Wegen dem TÜV - es steht ja nicht in den Fahrzeugpapieren (weder im Biref noch im KFZ-Schein), ob man einen Schalter oder Automatik hat, deswegen gibt's da auch nichts einzutragen (was und wo denn?). Selbst wenn es irgendwo stünde, eine Einzelabnahme wäre kein Problem!

Aber wie gesagt, ließ bloß meine älteren Posts genauer durch - da steht alles genau beschrieben, was und wie gemacht wurde.

Grüße,

Nick

Thanks Nick,

I did the same on an E34 525i touring, it was more plug & play as all the elements exist (from a donor 525i sedan in this case). The only ECU reprogram was to tell the ECU not to look for the automatic and you need to disable the neutral safety.

I agree that TUV would look at your car, you'd give them a list of donor parts and they would look, drive, test and do some calculations and then update your registration. Swiss would be similar.

I read your posts, the parts & process makes sense (based on my past conversion project). 540i box, flywheel and clutch. Pedal cluster from a manual X5. Shifter is a logical hybrid of X5 3.0 and 540i (you see it in the photos). As you state in many posts, the hard part are the housings so that the transmission mates to your NV125 as well as the output shaft.

Your BMW programmer likely updated the engine softward to "forget" the transmission, hopefully to tell the ECU that the cruise control should be disengaged when you push on the clutch pedal, not to look for park, neutral, etc. before starting the engine and a few other things.

I drive a 2002 3.0 d (5 speed), so I recognize some of the parts - but no all.

Nice work, persistence pays off. Contact Koala Motorsport in Ohio if you want to market the key parts for the conversion to a wide audience (US & Canada). For Germany I could give you a good contact as well.

Rise from your grave!

It has been three years...mileage and depreciation have been doing their work. I think an m62 with a manual should not be quite as expensive to do these days. I have a 3.0 with a 5 speed. I just dumped my firebird and have been obsessong about 4.4 with a 6 speed manual. I guess the trans Nick used is best, bit I wonder if you could use a 420 out of an e39?

I want to go back to Weasel's idea of selectable rover transfer case. Nv125 might as well be a cut rate np203...awd but you don't even have gear reduction.

Anyway, old 4.4s look pretty cheap, some transmissions as well. I want to know what the state of the art is on this kind of project now. A lot happens in 3 years.

Hey guys, while having a more power than V6, 3.0 is understandable ( i just sold my beautiful 2006 3.0 6MT few month ago, if you want more power with manual gear box, do you know that there are choice of supercharchers exsist for m54 engine? I mean rather go in to unknown, solving fitting and computer issues, adding pedals and clutch hydrawlic lines, etc to V8, Why not get 3.0 6MT and throw supercharger in it? The 3.0 engine is one hell of easier and less expensive thing to maintain. Once VCG (and there is only 1 of it) and OFHG replaced, there is pretty much nowhere else for oil to leak, pain in the butt Crank Ventilation Valve will be deleted and solution is part of the supercharger kit...

Ding ding ding ding!

Imo this is the way. Could seriously be a Saturday diy project for 1/2 the price and 1/100 of the labor for almost the same result.

I have a pair of turbos and all the paraphernalia in a box somewhere. That's not the point of this thread. Torque is, sort of.