An introduction...and a question on transmission/overall reliability.
 

Hi all,

I've lurked here for a little bit and thought I'd introduce myself. I'm a regular guy looking into my 2nd possible BMW purchase. My first car was an ancient 316 (1979 or 1981 I think). For background, in the past I owned a 2002 Acura MDX Touring. If anyone here has had one, you know that the 01-03s had an issue with the transmission (same with the 01-03 Pilots/Odyssey Vans). Having had that happen to me (and thankfully having Honda/Acura North America take care of it gratis) has made me a little gun-shy towards vehicles with transmission issues.

Having said that, I'm looking to buy a used X5 (2001-2006). From reading this and other forums, I gather that some of the model years have a tendency for transmission failures. Is there a year/package that I should avoid as a general rule or is it just a game of roulette? For example, are the auto six speeds (04 and newer models I believe) more apt to fail then the five speeds? 3 Liter v. 4 Liter? 2001 - 2003s better than 2004-2006?

I was dead set on a 2004 or newer to get the six speed transmission, but I drove an 01 4.4i the other day that I really liked handling-wise. I had read a review somewhere (perhaps here) that someone felt the 01s were relatively "over built" compared to other years.

Anyway, I'd love to hear the forum's thoughts. Thanks in advance!

From what I understand the 01 through 03 are E53 and are the same car.

I have an 02 , 3.0 100,000 miles trans works like new. good luck in your search.

I think it is a crape shoot.

A lot of people feel the 3.0 motors exert less stress on the trans, causing it to last longer. However, one would think that the the trans is different between the two models.

Mrbmwx5 said that the 01s have better transmissions than the later years -- not sure why he said that.

If you do a search on the subject you will find lots of info.

My advice would be to try and find a car that has been gently driven.

Mark,
I've done quite a bit of research on this and other forums. I believe this thread had quite a bit of info. Specifically post #59 perked my interest:

Quote:

I guess to clarify my question, is this correct? Were they able to correct the issue with 04-06s but not the earlier models?

Pack66,

I've purchased a 2003 4.6IS back in Feb 2009 and the X runs great. Until recently, I've had the "rough downshift" problem with the trans and "fail transsafe" msg from the in dash computer. Currently, my vehicle is being serviced at a BMW dealership (earlier diagnosed that I will need to replace my transmission). Fortunately, when I purchased this pre-owned at a reputable used car dealership, I picked up their 3rd party extended warranty. So far, it seems like they will be fronting most of the cost and I will have to pay a portion of BMW's insane hourly rate.

I would ask more questions from the seller if there's any pre-existing tranny issues. As BMW claimed, the V8 engines 4.4, 4.6 and 4.8 do have "rough downshift" problems and can be either fixed via software upgrade or worse off... new/replacement tranny. I share my costs once I hear from my SA.

Hope this helps.

Roger

I don't think there is any difference between an '01 and an '03. No difference in spec, or in reliability. The'04 onwards got the new Xdrive, and the new transmissions. A six speed is a bonus.

The transmissions in the 3.0 models are made by GM. Good transmissions. The transmissions in the 8 cylinder models are made by ZF, also good transmission. BMW took the basic transmission, and added in their own electronics package. That means sensors, controls, wiring harness, and programming. Those areas are where the problems are, and they are common across all models. If you doubt this, ask about window regulators, or bulb sockets, etc ad nauseum. Same reliability issues as the transmissions.

If you get a lower mileage vehicle, you have better odds. If you have a CPO warranty, even better. Apart from extreme cases of abuse, the transmissions don't seem to fail based on lack of maintenance, or power increases, or what have you. They do fail after high mileage fluid changes, but that is clearly due to the process of changing the fluid. Most often they are random failures, associated with electrical components in many cases. There are a few cases of mechanical failures, but even those can be caused by control system failures.

Just buy the vehicle you like, test drive it to see if it shifts OK, and stop worrying. Realize that at some point you may have to repair the transmissions. Worrying about it isn't going to make it go away, and will ruin your ride in the mean time. They are great vehicles, and random maintenance issues are part of the price of admission.

I'm with JCL -- random transmission failures are something to get accustomed to in any automatic BMW, you can't pinpoint which one it's going to affect, or when it's going to happen, so there's no point. It's been a hallmark BMW caveat since the late 90s. V8 or 6-cylinder, ZF or GM, 5 or 6-speed.

Hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Get it certified pre-owned and get an extended warranty. I wouldn't buy it if it was already slipping though, or there were any other symptoms of imminent failure. A good BMW mechanic will be able to take it for a spin and evaluate the tranny.

My tranny is starting to show some signs of doom, but I'm not worrying about it. If it goes out, it goes out -- I'll drive the Merc long enough to build up the $3k - $4k to put a new transmission in it. I wouldn't consider getting rid of it.

The X has personality, you get to know its strengths, weaknesses, and eccentricities (like the window regulator that "pops," but only when specific people the X doesn't care for try to roll down the window), but at the end of the day I end up loving it even more because of those imperfections.

Thanks for the information Roger, JCL, ECM,

I was afraid thats what everyone would say. I have heard issues about the ZF transmissions (from this forum, in fact). So maybe I'll look towards a 3.0. Roger, I would really be interested in your experience once you know the outcome. Especially what aftermarket warranty company you went what they did/did not pay.

All of the X5's I've look at have around 60k on them, so maybe I'll look for something newer...or a manual if I can find one.

Thanks again for the information!

Don't let the transmission be the deciding factor in what you get. If you love it, you love it. The newer it is though, and God forbid the transmission were to go out, BMW has been pretty good about offering goodwill replacements. There's been a couple of people on the board who have walked away with new transmissions courtesy of BMW NA. Just look for one with an intact service history, because the more money the dealer has made off of the car (not necessarily the owner), the more apt he will be to work with you. I wasted my one goodwill repair on the instrument cluster, kicking myself now.

Also search for water pump issues on the x5. Make sure you're comfortable with that before you buy

I purchased my extended warranty based upon my concern about something going wrong with the transmission after research and searching these forums.

Well that worry did come to light. About 2 years ago I had the transmission reprogrammed for the shifting issues discussed earlier which never really helped. Then it started to hiccup every 5 seconds at a specific speed which came and went for the last year.

I finally got it diagnosed as the mechatronic module and had it replaced (this month), under my 3rd party warranty. Cost of repair was $4,200 and I paid $100 deductible. I paid $3,600 for the warranty; I win!!! (from Security National). Now that the part is replaced I don't have the shift issues and the hiccup is gone as well.

I think the X5 drives better than it did 2 years ago. :)

I believe a '04 or newer X5 is the way to go. Get it inspected, know the history and consider strongly a warranty for the big items. My .02 cents.

if you can find one with the Zf 6spd ,something may go wrong with it as with any part on any car but you will have a lot of fun driving the beast .
really the only way around the worry is keep some cash in the bank for unforseen drama's if you don't you will never really enjoy driving .
when I first bought ours 4 mnths ago I didnt have a car fund and was always stressing about something going wrong , so I stopped wasting cash and put a few thou in the bank just for car and now I can't wait to drive the X every time I can

I have a 3.0 with 261,000 miles on the same transmission. So it has been very reliable. Not to mention I spend most of my driving in the sport mode. But I wished I would have gotten a 4.4, 4.6 or 4.8. I need that extra power:wow: and the exhaust note is awesome.

Buy the one you like, as you already all cars have their issues.

I love mine. bought in Jan, put about 31k miles on so far...she's doing great. One bulb failure...set of tires, brakes. Other than that routine maintenance. She's going in tomorrow for a tranny check, some slight new feelings when cold, and a very occassional rough downshift. I still have about 8 months or 30k miles on warranty left...so...just want to get it documented. It's been a damned good car, and has been through hell on road and off, with quite a few thousand miles put on it with a 6000# trailer behind her. I simply love this vehicle. Even the fuel mileage with the 4.4i is what I consider good. I'm getting 15.5 in town, and about 19 on the highway (80mph), and about 13mpg while towing 6000#. My neighbors Jeep Grand Cherokee with the Hemi gets 12mpg in town...though his highway mileage (with cylinder deactivation) is 20mpg. And the X is light years ahead in vehicle dynamics.

The best BMW I've owned thus far, and I look forward to many more years with her in the stable.

Prgsxr, you sound like a Dave Ramsey disciple. I was thinking if I find an X5, I may have to do the same thing.

I'll check on the water pump, that's a new wrinkle I've not read about.

WallyX5, that's good information. Did you buy yours new or used?

Thanks again for all the comments.

-J

haha just had to google dave ramsey had never heard of him before ,
But yes I am not on a big income also paying off house and have 2 kids ,so it can be a stress waiting for something to happen that might never come about , so just put the cash aside and if you don't use it your in front , if you do it's not a stress

mines an AUS version 2006 4.4 6spd auto sport ,if someone out there has built a better all round vehicle that just does everything you want it too I would love to drive it because I find it hard to believe it could be any better than an X

I bought it used with 80,000 miles on it back in 05.

Have done a little more research...any 3.0 owners out there had transmission work? Seems like the GM transmission has fared a little better than the ZF.

When I was looking at buying an X5 last year, I called around a few independent mechanics in my area. They all suggested that 3.0 would be more reliable and less problematic than 4.4 ("definitely get a 4.4 with extended warranty" they ALL said.)

I have been on this forum for the last year perhaps, and every new thread that comes up with regards to transmission issues during my time here, has been from a 4.4 owner. (I eagerly look at these threads since, without an extended warranty, I would like to know what kind of signs/etc. I need to look for ... and I realize the thread is about a 4.4 and not a 3.0... this has happened in many threads... I may have missed one or two here and there... but I would say a good majority of them while I have been on this board have been about a 4.4.)

The 4.4 obviously has better performance and is a much better 'driver's' car than 3.0 will ever be. It may have more problems/maintenance to go with that better performance... if you are after that kind of performance, pay to play and enjoy the performance.

Now that I have said the above, obviously my 3.0's transmission is going to disintegrate and explode on my way home tonight. It will serve me right. :)

here is a good site for finding out which box is in which model car ,gives you a better idea of whats what.
FixEuro.com - Freddie's Transmission Service - ZF 6HP26

I took it one step further and went with a 4.6is myself. I love it and would never be happy with a 3.0 personally. A 4.4i might be alright, but there isn't much difference between a 4.4i and 4.6is in terms of maint or reliability, IMHO. And you only live once, right?

I think there are a couple ways of looking at it. Certainly a trans can die in any car - even an MDX as in your case. You just never know. There are no guarantees in life unless you buy or lease cars every 2-4 years and keep them within factory warrantee period. But think about that for just a minute. Most all cars depreciate 40% in 3-4 years. So if you are buying a $40K vehicle every 3-4 years you are losing $16K (plus $4K in taxes in states like Kalifornia). Comes out to at least $5K per year. And that is if you stay in the $40K range - goes up if you spend more.

Compare that to buying a nice used premium car like an X5 for say $25K.
In 3-4 years it may also depreciate 40% (could also well be lower) but since you are working from a lower up front purchase cost, the depreciation is more like $10K and taxes are only $2K, so $12K vs. $20K for the new one. I can't imagine that you would ever spend $8K over 3 years in maint / repairs. So tell me what you would rather drive? A fully loaded couple year old X5 that originally sold for $60K, or a new MDX? Considering you would pay more for the MDX even factoring in some major repairs on the BMW. That is an easy choice for me. YMMV of course. ;)

Actually, the choice for me is between a used MDX and a used X5. I don't buy new vehicles. I'd rather someone else pay the depreciation tax. I've had incredible luck with a 97 Accord w/over 150k miles. I'd like to get the same out of an X5 if possible. Looks like the 3.0 might be the one to check out for me. I've driven two 4.4s, so I'll have to go test drive a 3.0 now.

MDX might be a better choice for you. X5 is not going to have reliability in the vein of an Accord or MDX. It is a far better vehicle, but you will pay more to own it no matter how you slice it.