coolant leak
 

Hi - been a while since I posted here but it looks like my 200 X5 4.4i has developed a coolant leak somewhere. It has almost 74,000 miles now. I first noticed a small amount of condensation under the front of the vehicle (from the middle of the skid plate/center jack point area) when I drove the vehicle back from Lake Tahoe to San Francisco about a month ago. I think the car probably sat for about two weeks before the next time I drove it and I didn't see anything on the ground but I started smelling some coolant. Then I drove the car a week later and the "Check Coolant Level" check control light came on. I checked the reservoir and it was empty/low so I filled it up with distilled water. This worked fine but then the same thing happened today. I filled it up again and then I noticed after the trip to Oakland and letting the car sit in the parking garage for about 4 hours a small greenish puddle had accumulated under the car. It looks like its coming from above the passenger side of the skid plate but could have just been the angle the car was sitting on the on the parking garage floor. I checked the reservoir and I don't notice any fluid around there (I believe this was previously released because it had the pinhole problem). I guess I will trace the coolant water hoses from the reservoir and radiator and see where the problem is. Hopefully it's not the water pump or worse... valleypan.

Any suggestions, tips on what to look for beyond the obvious :-) Anyone know a good BMW indy mechanic in SF?

how do I get to the upper/lower rad hose? Do I need to remove the plastic fan shroud housing? I felt it briefly before and I think I might be the original one and could be the source of my leak.

I just noticed a slow coolant leak on my 05 4.4. I think it is leaking from the reservoir tank possibly. All of the hoses have been replaced. I noticed a small amount of coolant on the lower driver side splash pan. The under pan in front of the front left tire. So im in the process of tracking this leak down as well.

I haven't looked to closely yet but are there any hoses on the bottom side of the reservoir or is it just the smaller ones up top?

Mine did the same thing just right before my alternator went south FWIW.

There are so many places that can leak that you will need to narrow it down some more... Usually wherever the leak is has that slimy/crusty residue left behind which helps find it.

Get a good flashlight and start to looking! ;)

I'lll jack the car up and take the belly pan off. If there is anything dripping, it'll hit the floor so it's easier to see (instead of get collected on the belly pan)

belly pan = skid plate ? The big bare metal looking cover thing? Is this easy to remove? I would imagine it would make tracking down this leak a little easier. Hopefully I have the right bits (i think i have just about every torx size after doing the hitch installation.

No not the metal thing, it's the black plastic further forward. You don;t need torx to remove the plastic belly pan.
If you have V8 and your valleypan gasket leaking it may get collected on that metal cover thing, but I'll start with the easier thing to take off (my rule in fixing car problem :D).

OK got it. Hoping it's a hose, when I squeezed the upper one yesterday it definitely felt a little bit brittle.

Should I be able to get a visual on the water pump after removing this belly pan in addition to the radiator and hoses?

I guess if it's none of those or the reservoir then it might be the valleypan gasket leaking?

My upper radiator hose developed small crack, I saw the low coolant message on the way home from work two-weeks ago. Pulled into the garage, turned the engine off and heard the hissing sound and small steam coming out of that crack. Temp was normal throughout, added about half gallon distilled water to check how the situation was. I ordered WP, all hoses, thermostat the next day. So if you still onthe original hoses, you may want to replace them. For reference, mine has been garaged all the time and Seattle is probably not as hot as Arizona climatewise.

For WP, you don;t need to remove radiator, just the fan clutch and belt to spin it to see if the ball-bearing still smooth and see any leak around it. But at this time it's probably not a bad idea to replace WP and thermostat. FYI, mine @58000 miles (8 year old) the WP and thermostat look like new.

Hard to say if you have valleypan leak or not, I heard from E38 740i people that parking on incline will make the leak from valleypan worse, so something you can check if you think it is.

Good luck.

Check the Bell housing at the bottom for any build up from the coolant. There is a plate on the back of the block that can leek, this will mean Trans out for repair.

Well I removed the belly pan plastic protective splash guard cover thing from underside front of the vehicle and I can see the condensation right away even after the vehicle has been sitting for over a day:

http://we350z.com/cpg/albums/userpic...l_IMG_0437.JPG

I'm not 100% positive but from what I can see I think it might be the water pump that has sprung a leak. Is the WP directly above the underdrive (large) pulley? I filled the empty reservoir once again and started the engine. Once the water temp started rising a little bit I could see the spray on the ground from the coolant on to the fan.

http://we350z.com/cpg/albums/userpic...l_IMG_0436.JPG

It looks like there is some fluid pooling on the ground around the center right (towards driver side). It is brown, i think either from rust or dirt or something but definitely is coolant/water.

http://we350z.com/cpg/albums/userpic...l_IMG_0443.JPG

It looks like its dripping off the bottom housing piece for the small pulley (tensioner?)

http://we350z.com/cpg/albums/userpic...l_IMG_0444.JPG

A little bit closer inspection with the flashlight I can see some spray up above the underdrive (larger) pulley. Is this where the water pump is located?

http://we350z.com/cpg/albums/userpic...l_IMG_0438.JPG

You have to look closely but you can see the moisture:

http://we350z.com/cpg/albums/userpic...l_IMG_0440.JPG

Even closer:

http://we350z.com/cpg/albums/userpic...l_IMG_0439.JPG

Yeah, looks like your waterpump is leaking and you are due for a coolant flush. The V8 waterpump is a bigger job than the I6. And make sure you get the o-rings that go in the top/back of the waterpump for the coolant pipes that run front to back, and the small rubber coated water pipe that goes to the alternator housing.

Just make sure whoever does the job knows what they are doing and has done this job before because even the crank pulley needs to be removed to gett he pump off.

Just FYI, an Indie shop quotes me ~$950 after $35 BMW CCA discount before tax for this job. Dealer hint me north of $1200.
Weasel may have better idea on number of hours but I think around 4-6 hours.

Not sure if Indie uses OEM pump or Graf. For hoses, WP, thermostats you are looking around $500 in parts alone if you want to do it yourself.
BTW, ask the indie shop to use BMW coolant or Zerex G05.

Good thing you find this before the WP completely ceased.

good luck. if you havent replaced andy hoses yet than get ready for this upcoming debacle. best thing is to remove the black plastic skid plate and look at all that is above it. if you smell coolant while your driving than that could be the result of coolant cooking on the block where the valleypan leaks.

Yeah - it's overdue for a coolant flush. I'm just glad it doesn't appear to be the valley pan leaking. So anyway, it looks like my cooling system needs some TLC. I am debating whether or not I want to take on this DIY. Maybe I can find another X5 gearhead locally to help me that has done this job. It doesn't look too difficult but I would have to do it in my apartment garage parking space. I have done a coolant flushes on my Z before and I sat in recently on it's 60K maintenance so I am somewhat familiar with what needs to be done with regards to belt and pulley removal. I also remember reading to be very careful when actually pulling the pump off so the coolant pipes don't fall off (though supposedly they can just be placed back on). Any tips regarding this part?

So what all should I replace? Just slap a new water pump on after removing the old one and sanitizing the area? Is it recommended to use the OEM gasket? The guy who did my 60K on my Nissan uses silicon and tosses the gasket he says they are shit. Pretty sure the belts are new as of 60K (though one squeaks like something fierce - so I could take this opportunity to adjust it).

- Water Pump
- Water Pump Gasket or Silicon Gasket Maker
- Coolant Pipe O-rings

Part #'s?

I don't want to mess with the radiator and hoses if I don't need to - but will a new water pump cause these parts to wear at an accelerated rate? I have read a lot around here about ppl saying you should change out entire cooling system at once... that sounds expensive and perhaps unnecessary.

Which water pump should I get? Are the Cardone ones available at regular auto parts stores necessarily bad or should I just get OEM? Please advise.

That's a little steep. Did they use all new OEM stuff? So your indy charges about $100/hr labor?

Not sure what the big deal on using specific coolant is but I guess I will do it :-)

Thanks - I just went through the service records and It looks like the only thing that has been replaced with regards to the cooling system was the reservoir which had a pin hole leak (I think this was fairly common issue among early X5's).

I might just take my chances and replace the WP only and deal with the hoses later if need be. I don't drive the car a whole lot and it sounds like it would be kind of a bitch to pull the rad. I think the coolant I smelled was definitely coming from the water pump.

I was looking at prices - $200 for an upper rad hose? WTF? Surely there must be some viable alternatives, probably something of even higher quality for less...

I hear the radiator is not the best in the world but it's hard for me to not adopt the if it's not broke don't fuck with it attitude.

Does this come with everything I need?

Yes it does, the pipe to the alternator I was thinking about is on the newer V8s fron the 745i..... my bad! But that does have the o-rings I talked about. Just be careful as the metal tubes/pipes that slip into the back of the waterpump have the same slip in o-ring seal at the back end. So you really need to make sure the front comes loose vs the rear as if the rear pulls out you will be forced to remove the intake manifold and replace a second pair of o-rings.

As for the radiator hoses, the tell tale signs of aging plastic in a cooling stsyem is the black plastic turning brownish. If it looks brownish it needs to be changed. Look at the inside when they are off as well, you will see if the inside is turning soft/coming apart.

hmm thats not too bad then. Do I/should I replace the thermostat too? Figure I might as well since its a maintenance item and it's buried. I looked on eBay it looks like the OEM unit is manufactured by BEHR as far as I can tell. I wouldn't want to have to do this job again - but do tstats go bad or do they get destroyed when you move the WP? I thought you really only need to replace them if you overheat? Do I need any special tools for this job? What about removing the pulleys? I think my hoses might be fine then b/c they are still all black including the black connector parts.

It looks like there is a nice writeup in the FAQ section unfortunately the pics are gone :-(

I bought everything from pelican parts (w/ free shipping) but unfortunetely you may have to pay CA tax if you buy from them.
BMW X5 4.4i M62 - Water Pumps & Hoses - Page 1
In any rate get the OEM gasket for WP, see page 2 for it. ($2.75)

If I were you replace the thermostat, you don't want to do this again later for thermostat replacement, not to mention if it goes bad (remain close) on long trip. I know it feels like a ripp off for $98 but it comes with housing and sensor.

I bought these as well from ZDMAK tools:
TOOL Page (¯`·.¸(¯`·.¸ ZDMAK SPECIAL TOOL STORE ¸.·´¯)¸.·´¯)

You would need the 32mm wrench to take off the fan clutch, and it's either a t45 or t50 torx to remove the crank pulley... there are 8 bolts in a ring that hold the pulley on, and one alignment pin to make extra sure you line up when putting it back on.

Yeah i think i will replace it and prob the drive belts too while i'm at it. Do I need the tstat housing too or just the tstat?? still lloks like a better deal on eBay for the parts...

Two more questions:

1) Is it best to drain the cooling system @ the radiator? Is there a drain plug on the bottom?
2) When removing the water pump - is vapor lock something to be concerned about? Also should I use the supplied gasket or just use silicon gasket maker?

Is there a trick to removing the WP so that I don't pull the coolant tubes out? I'm sort of worried about this step.

I think the bearing has been going on the WP for some time now based on the sound that was coming from it. I'm guessing if I grabbed onto the fan shook it a little it would have a little play in it.

Thermostat

What about drive belts? I guess I could take em off and inspect them and if they are cracked I'll get new ones or maybe I should just get new ones for piece of mind.

Which belts will I be taking off for this job - just the one for the water pump?

There is a drain plug on the bottom of the radiator as well as one on the passengers side of the block. You should drain from both of these since you are overdue for a coolant flush anyways.

As for the tubes, I usually spray some penetrating lube on the front of them (at the back of the waterpump) to help loosten the front o-rings and keep the rears intact. And when you refill it have the bleeder screws removed when you fill it to the top, then put the bleeder screws back. With the main fill cap still off start the X5 (with the heater on as well) and you should see a stream of coolant pissing across the opening. Have someone hold the throttle to about 2500rpm and the stream should be solid and strong. If that is the case you should be good and fully bleed. and you can go ahead and cap her off.

Cool - where exactly is that drain plug located on the block? how do i get to it? Pics? While draining should I jack the rear up to try and get more of the of the old fluid out? I'm not quite sure i get what you are saying about the pb blaster on the water pump with respect to the coolant pipes? can removing the wp itself or installing the new tstat dislodge the pipes or are you talking about re-assembly? Confused.

The block drain plug is on the passengers side of the block behind the ac compressor. And the coolant pipes actually slip into the water pump, which is the point they need to slip out of. If the rear of the pipes lets go and they come out with the pump it will mean more work.

I'm sure there are writeups all over this site, just search it and see if you can find pictures.

Ok yeah that's what I thought. Just to reiterate is sounds like the pipes just kind of lay in there. So if one or both of them stick to the WP (perhaps due to the o-ring) as you are pulling it off then you could pull it out of the rear which means pulling the heads off to stick it back in on the rear.

The DIY article for the 4.4i I found is missing pics. I found some pics here on the block drain plug here, and a writeup for the 3.0 procedure here. I will just look up the procedure for the 4.4 on TIS.

According to the service records it looks like the last coolant flush was performed 09/09/05 when the Expansion Tank/Coolant Reservoir was replaced. So according to the Fluid Maintenance Guide it is a little bit overdue. Both drive belts were replaced 10/07/05, so I would think they should be good but of course I will inspect them more closely once they are off the car.

As for parts - looks like I will need:

• Thermostat (11 53 1 436 386)
• Thermostat Gasket/Seal (11 51 1 705 408)
• Water Pump (11 51 1 713 266)
• Water Pump Gasket (11 51 1 731 462)
• Water Pipe to Water Pump O-Ring (11 53 1 710 048)
• 2 Gallons Zerex G05 Antifreeze
• 2 Gallons Distilled Water

Please confirm this.

Do I need this special tool in the attached picture to remove the fan clutch or just the 32mm wrench? I imagine the last picture is only necessary if you actually want to replace the fan blade?

32mm wrench ,and anything to hold the pulley while you break the fan clutch free. (what the bar with 2 holes is doing over the waterpump pulley bolts) *note* the fan clutch is reverse thread so you have to "tighten" it to take it off.

As for the parts, sounds good except there are 2 o-rings you need, different sizes for different pipes. (as shown in the ebay link)

Look on e38.org BMW 7-series information and links for more tips on this job. We share the same motor, and pay particular attention to the bleeding as it can be a real headache if you don't do it right. No one replied yet, but you HAVE to use BMW coolant or Zerex G05 because it is phosphate free. I'm due for my cooling system overhaul soon, all new pieces (better safe than sorry), pre-VANOS intake manifold swap, intake gaskets, etc...it'll be like a whole new engine :)

Cool - what can one use in place of the special tool to hold the pulley? Good call on the reverse thread for the fan clutch I would not have known that and the TIS doesn't say anything about it. I listed the two gaskets here though I am going to buy the pump off ebay anyway:

• Water Pump Gasket (11 51 1 731 462)
• Water Pipe to Water Pump O-Ring (11 53 1 710 048)

Is the stock Pump manufactured by Graf or Meyle? The one on eBay is Meyle.

Yeah that's true I will check it out. Why is the bleeding a bitch? The TIS says to do the following:

Draining coolant: Separate coolant expansion tank (M62): Open cap on coolant expansion tank

Release screws. Remove underbody paneling (1).

M62: Open drain plug at bottom of radiator. Drain, catch and dispose of coolant.
Installation: Replace seal. Tightening torque, 17 11 2AZ.

Open drain plug on right of engine block. Drain, catch and dispose of coolant.
Installation: Replace seal. Tightening torque, 11 11 5AZ.

Adding coolant:

Note: The tank mark indicates the fluid level at approx. 20  C. Use only recommended coolant, refer to BMW Service Operating Fluids MG17.

1. Turn on ignition.
2. Set heating controller to maximum temperature
3. Set fan to low setting. This opens the heating valves and starts the auxiliary water pump.
4. Perform filling operation slowly.
5. Pour coolant into coolant expansion tank up to max. cold fill level.
6. Close vent plug when bubble-free coolant emerges
7. Close coolant expansion tank. Vent cooling system and check for leaks.

I knew about the phosphate free antifreeze :-)

Its not necessarily a bitch, its just messy. Its important that its done right so all the air comes out. I've bled cars and still had a fluctuating needle a couple of times from it still burping...im just paranoid about the cooling systems on the V8.

I usually use a long flat blade screwdriver between the head of a pulley bolt and the fan nut... But you gotta be carefull in the positioning of the screwdriver, and there is a possibility of the screw bending and breaking the pulley if the fan is too tight.

Hmmm... Maybe I'll just fabricate one of these special tools with a piece of metal and my drill/dremel if I can't get the screwdriver trick to work. I'll have to go play with it to see what you are talking about. Where does one get these special bmw tools anyway?

If you get the part# from it you can order it through the dealership's parts department. And all BMW special tools have lifetime warranty too. They're just expensive sometimes...

Thanks - Looks like this suggestion will pay off after all with respect to some nice reference photos and instructions on how to make a pully holder tool! Kudos to the e38 crowd on bimmerboard!

Will this work? I couldn't find anything for a 2000 there. I'd like to avoid paying $27 + Arnie tax if possible not to mention lugging it back home since I obviously have no car.

03 2003 BMW X5 Coolant Antifreeze - Fluids/Manuals/Misc - OES Genuine - PartsGeek

Yep, that is the right stuff.

I should be able to get some of this locally:

http://shop.oreillyauto.com/productd...egoryCode=3219

Here is some pics of those coolant tubes:

Auctiva Image Hosting

Good, now you can see where the tubes slip into that rear crosspipe. That piece in the pics in the link goes across the back of the engine, from head to head. The coolant pipes have o-rings where they slip into that rear crosspipe as well as where they slip into the waterpump.

Yep - I've learned to do as much research as possible and try to find reference pics or at least visualize so I know what I am dealing with. It's all about preperation. I hate surprises - they can be annoying and expensive. I just need the thing fixed before XMAS when I take the journey to Tahoe.

I double checked everything tonight just to be sure and took a couple more pics. I'm starting to think the lower radiator hose that connects to the water pump might potentially be the issue though it's hard to tell. Unfortunately I could not get a clear picture of this. It's definitely pretty wet - but it could just be splashing up from coolant leaking on to the fan from the WP. I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile to remove the fan, dry and clean everything up as best I can and run it again while monitoring. I also verified that it doesn't look like the big adjustable wrench recommended in to e38 post i linked to will work since there is not enough clearance between the fan and the water pump pulley. Looks I will need to get a 32mm box wrench for this (as it looks like TIS is showing). I also don't understand how I would get the special tool hooked onto the pulley bolts (for holding the pulley) since the bolt heads seem about flush with the rim of the pulley. All this said - is it possible, or even worthwhile to attempt replacing just the lower radiator hose to see if it fixes the leak without having to remove the fan, water pulley and belt(s)? I guess it would make sense to just replace the lower radiator hose anyway if I end up having to replace the water pump since it's so buried anyway because it will probably end up failing some time soon anyway. Thoughts?

http://we350z.com/cpg/albums/userpic...l_IMG_0449.jpg

http://we350z.com/cpg/albums/userpic...l_IMG_0452.jpg

http://we350z.com/cpg/albums/userpic...l_IMG_0454.jpg

http://we350z.com/cpg/albums/userpic...l_IMG_0455.jpg

http://we350z.com/cpg/albums/userpic...l_IMG_0457.jpg

I got clear picture from those pics, looks to be coming from the front shaft of the waterpump right behind the pulley. Still need to change the waterpump. And for the hoses, yes this would be a good time to change them. For the most part the plastic ends go out first on our hoses, and the plastic part starts turning brownish when they are REALLY bad... If your hose ends are turning color at all the inside of them is coming apart.

Right on - well at least I feel confident now that the problem has been properly diagnosed. Nothing worse then heading down the wrong path and/or doing work unnecessarily (though i would think the original WP with almost 75K would be near death anyway). The only hose that is exhibiting brown plastic that see is the one going to the rear of the engine bay from the expansion tank. I can't see the connection points on the WP yet. Might as well do them all based on what I am reading on this forum.

Wow, I've missed a lot on this thread! Sounds like it's goin good for ya we350z :)

How many coolant hoses are there in total if I am to replace them all?

Lots, but the main ones to worry about are the upper and lower radiator hoses and the vent hose to the expansion tank. Pretty much any hose with a plastic junction.

I am going to replace these 3 hoses. I also think I will replace the belts since they are 4 years old after reading this article - what's another $30 anyway when you're already spending $300 or so? What's the difference between the bottom 2 belts on this page? Does it matter which one I get?

--Thanks

Not sure in the difference in the 2 main belt choices, they may be different legnths?

One extra thing to think about getting is the coolant temp sensor that goes on the lower radiator hose. The o-ring on it tends to deteriorate and cause a leak, and if it isn't leaking now it likely will after disturbed/swapped. (unfortunately the o-ring isn't available seperately through the dealer, may be able to find it online though)

This right?

This is what I am ordering:

Part Number

Brand / Description

Price

List

Core

Qty

Total

W0133-1626722 *
http://img.eautopartscatalog.com/liv...1626722OES.JPG


Coolant/Antifreeze 1 Gallon


$19.09

$19.95



Update

Remove


$38.18

11537500752
http://www.autohausaz.com/secure/Par...1537500752.jpg

CRP-Contitech/OES
Cooling/Coolant Hose; Auxillary Thermostat to Water Hose
2000 BMW X5

$15.96

$19.00



Update

Remove


$15.96

11537500750
http://www.autohausaz.com/secure/Par...1537500750.jpg

CRP-Contitech
Cooling/Coolant Hose; Lower Radiator to Thermostat Housing
2000 BMW X5

$25.95

$36.95



Update

Remove


$25.95

11537500746
http://www.autohausaz.com/secure/Par...1537500746.jpg

BMW (OE)
Cooling/Coolant Hose; Upper Radiator; 4-Way Hose
2000 BMW X5

$61.18

$70.80



Update

Remove


$61.18

11537505950
http://www.autohausaz.com/secure/Par...1537505950.jpg

BMW (OE)
Expansion Tank/Coolant Reservoir Hose; Expansion Tank to Additional Water Pump


$18.46

$20.47



Update

Remove


$18.46

11531439123
http://www.autohausaz.com/secure/Par...1531439123.jpg

CRP-Contitech/OES
Expansion Tank/Coolant Reservoir Hose; Expansion Tank to Upper Radiator Hose


$27.04

$34.20



Update

Remove


$27.04

13621433077
http://www.autohausaz.com/secure/Par...3621433077.jpg

FAE
Radiator/Auxiliary Fan Switch; In Lower Radiator Hose


$15.78

$29.90



Update

Remove


$15.78

99919220650
http://www.autohausaz.com/secure/Par...9919220650.jpg

CRP-Contitech
Serpentine Belt/Ribbed Drive Belt; AC Compressor
2000 BMW X5

$11.02

$21.67



Update

Remove


$11.02

7PK1635
http://www.autohausaz.com/secure/PartImages/7PK1635.jpg

CRP-Contitech
Serpentine Belt/Ribbed Drive Belt; Alternator/Power Steering/Water Pump
2000 BMW X5

$19.28

$36.25



Update

Remove


$19.28

11511705408
http://www.autohausaz.com/secure/Par...1511705408.jpg

DPH/CRP-Contitech
Thermostat Gasket/Seal; O-Ring Seal; 76.5x4mm
2000 BMW X5

$0.93

$4.12



Update

Remove


$0.93

11531436386
http://www.autohausaz.com/secure/Par...1531436386.jpg

Behr (OES)
Thermostat; Assembly with Electrical Plug for Characteristics Control
2000 BMW X5

$75.71

$92.85



Update

Remove


$75.71

11511731462
http://www.autohausaz.com/secure/Par...1511731462.jpg

VictorReinz/CRP-Contitech
Water Pump Gasket
2000 BMW X5

$3.13

$4.06



Update

Remove


$3.13

11531710048
http://www.autohausaz.com/secure/Par...1531710048.jpg

DPH/CRP-Contitech
Water Pump Gasket; Water Pipe to Water Pump O-Ring; 34.2x4.0mm
2000 BMW X5

$0.81

$2.20



Update

Remove


$1.62

11511713266
http://www.autohausaz.com/secure/Par...1511713266.jpg

Graf
Water Pump; With Metal Impeller
2000 BMW X5

$115.84

$192.79



Update

Remove


$115.84

Parts Total

$430.08

Refundable Core Deposits

$0.00

Total Before Shipping

$430.08

Looks like a good parts list. I'm thinking the o-rings should come with the respected parts, but those are the cheapest parts anyways so I guess it doesn't really matter.

Yeah - but it would suck to find out they are not included b/c then I don't have everything I need to do the job and I'll have to go get some...

I think I was missing the small water pipe o-ring from this order here. I only need one I beleive since the other side of the water tubes should stay put.

I might just get that WP off eBay since I know it comes with the two different size water tube gaskets plus it's cheaper - but is Meyle brand bad??

I have no experience with any brands other than what is sold at the dealer... Working there just makes it too easy for me.

Yeah - technically they are both OEM brands so you could get either from the dealer depending on what they got in stock there but I hear more folks talking about the Graf pumps vs. Meyle. I'm trying to do this economically but if one is better than the other for a few bucks no biggie.

Well I ordered $425 worth of parts and it should all be here this Thursday.

This is a really good post too with respect to making a pulley tool. I also found another link in that post that explains this wd-40 + screwdriver trick with pictures. I think I will give that a shot first since it's much cheaper to do lol.

http://www.bimmerboard.com/members/c...tchRemoval.jpg

Someone also mentioned using some 10mm sockets or wrenches to hold the pulley in place. Now all I need is a thin 32mm or 1-1/4" box wrench.

OK - got all my stuff today. If you order from AutoHausAZ - you do not need to order the o-rings and gaskets separately as they come with the WP and thermostat. I am going to send my extras back I guess.

I should be cracking into this job this weekend.

Sending them back might not be worth the trouble and expense. Maybe someone here will read this thread and just buy them from you instead :)

Bump for we350z :)

Yeah - seriously i think its maybe $5 altogether. One thing I hate about ordering parts online. I have a brake wear sensor cable that doesn't fit my vehicle also that I somehow mistakenly ordered in the past. At least at a dealer you see what you are getting there and it's easy to return stuff you don't need.

Thing that pisses me off is that their website tells you that you need these items too - but then you end up not needing them b/c they are included.

On the gasket for the wate rpump - does it just go straight on the clean surface or should one apply a thin layer of RTV silicon gasket maker to each side??

I just returned from the local "Stealer". I had the same symptoms. Diagnosis: Water pump is leaking & Expansion Tank is leaking. Mine is a 2000 w/ 4.4i & aparently I am about due for this at 106K mi. Repair cost =$650.00. Also, most coolant hoses will need to be replaced and don't be surprised if the radiator starts to go south around 120K. R&R for the water pump is rather extensive but a guy w/ a full compleemnt of metric tools can do it.
Good luck to you.
Skidmark X5

Hey we350z, if you really feel liek getting rid of the gaskets you could always throw them up on Craigslist or just be a nice guy and give them to a local indy/stealership so at least someone can get some use out of them. I always feel a little bad in the back of my head when I waist or throw away perfectly good parts when someone else might be paying for something I have just sitting around.As for the gasket install, a little sealant won't hurt to assist in holding it in place. I've seen people do little dambs in each corner, but for me its all or nothing...no sealant or just run a thin bead around one side of the whole gasket to assist it from moving around while your shoving your hands in a mildly tight area.

ok - what about for the coolant pipe o-rings? I see they are pre-loaded into the water pump. Is it a good idea to put some coolant on it for lubrication so it will slide easy and not roll the rings? Engine/oil or vaseline?

With o-rings I usually use whatever fluid it is used for, in this case coolant. But it wouldn't be horrible to use a thin smear of vasoline on the o-ring/pipe. Just don't glob on anything and you'll be ok.

I was gonna say the same thing as Weasel. I was just reading on the E46 boards how they packed their oil pumps w/ Vaseline to prime them after an oilpump swap - seems that stuff is good for just about any use :)

Totally - It's what I used to seat my fuel injectors in the fuel rail on my Z. I am anyway just going to install the standard Graf gasket that came with the pump without RTV and put a little of the unmixed BMW coolant on the coolant pipe o-rings.

Got a 1 1/4" combo wrench today from ACE today since that adjustable wrench wasn't clearing the fan clutch/pulley. Anyway gonna try and pop that sucka off tonight and get started on this job finally.

So after bending my first screwdriver on the water pulley I tried a beefier flat head and success the thing came right off. I was all out of PB Blaster so I let the fan nut soak in WD-40 for about 30 minutes prior - not sure if this was necessary or not. I cleaned up the intake panel, fan shroud and fan clutch (which was especially dirty).

I have drained the radiator and cleaned up most of the mess now that I have more access. I am having difficulty locating the coolant drain plug for the engine block - I see it clearly in the picture linked earlier in this thread (below) and the TIS drawing (attached) but I don't see it from under the car. It's supposed to be behind the ac compressor? Do I need to remove the skid plate to access this?

THANKS!

http://www.xoutpost.com/attachments/...ug-removed.jpg

It is just really hidden in there... I use a looong extension with a swivel/socket combo and go in through the spot where the tie rod goes through to the wheel. When you look back and up on the block from that area you should be able ot see the 13mm head on the block.

OK - can it be done without the swivel/socket combo? All I have is the sparkplug swivel/socket but I do have plenty of extensions and a regular 13mm socket.

Since the WP is coming off won't the coolant in the block just exit through the coolant pipes there?

No easy way to do it without a swivel, but more will come out through the front with the waterpump removed than will stay in it. It won't get it all out, but most of it. If you can't get to the drain plug on the block, just doing it without wouldn't be that bad.

OK - I'll give it a shot but If it's too much of a bitch I'll skip it. I would prefer to do this right though. I was searching around and found the following two suggestions for gaining access and removing this drain plug:

• Remove your front right wheel and also turn your wheel to all the way left.
• Remove the non-structural metal engine plate/brush guard underneath.

I could always just fill her up with distilled water and flush by emptying out of the radiator again. This is what I did on my Z (several times while alternating jacking the front and rear up to flush what I could out of the block) because I don't think it has a (easily accessible) engine block drain plug. Of course I don't have one of the pressurized rigs either that some shops use. I have seen some creative people make home brew rigs themselves using shopvac's or compressors with specially fabricated fittings, etc...

The stuff that came out of the radiator didn't look too bad at all either, though from the service records it is definitely overdue.

Is it worth it maybe just to jack the rear up to see if I can get some more to come out the rad? I don't want to create a another wet mess by running the engine with the WP leaking all over the place after spending hours last night cleaning it up :( Not to mention the fan is removed now - I'm not sure if it's a good idea to run without.

This sounds like an interesting method for flush - but again I would have to run the engine again.

OK - so I was able to get to the engine block coolant drain plug and remove it without a swivel socket. Took me a while to locate it but that pic was a huge help. I think even more coolant came gushing out from here than from the radiator. Even with a catch pan it made a huge mess since it falls on to the engine plate. I used a 12" + 6" extension right behind the back opening for the inside CV boot. Be careful not to drop the bolt upon removal, when putting the bolt back in I used a little duct tape to line the socket so the bolt would sit in it a little snugger so It wouldn't fall out (plug screws in on an angle). I jacked up the passenger front side of the car to get enough clearance to get the torque wrench in there so I could torque it back down to 25NM. This also will drain off all the coolant that is laying on top of the metal engine plate.

So this weekend I am hoping to finish it all up. Next I need to remove hoses, belts, and H20 pulley then I should be able to pull the water pump assembly off.

Wondering should I be able to do this all from the top of the engine bay or if I will need to get under the car? Seems like there should be enough room to work :-)

having tough time getting the vibration damper off. The 8 13mm bolts came out easy but feels like its stuck on there. Tried prying it off and tapping it couple times to no avail. I sprayed some WD-40 in each of the bolt holes and into the back of it as well hopefully that will work. Am I missing something? Any tips?

--Thanks

OK - after spraying the vibration damper with WD-40 and letting it sit over night two light taps with the mallet did the trick :-) It's pretty obvious with all the stuff removed and a clear view that the pump is indeed the source of the leak.

I removed the t-stat and now I am finally working the water pump off. I am a little worried about the coolant pipes so I sprayed some more WD-40 in there and letting it sit overnight again too. So basically I just need to bolt everything back up tomorrow. I think it will go much faster since I won't have to wrangle with getting old stuck hoses and shit off. I have done a fair amount of cleaning and still need to do some more (hard to stop once you start, lol). A clean engine is a happy engine!

One last question. I have a choice of either using the standard Graf gasket or the Green VictorReinz/CRP-Contitech one (has lines of sealant on it) here is a pic:

http://www.autohausaz.com/secure/Par...1511731462.jpg

Thoughts? I am leaning towards the green one...

The green one with the sealant line on it looks exactly like the OEM one, and really is they way to go if the other one doesn't have that.

Green one it is!

I finally (just now) got this fucker off. Even after dousing the coolant pipes with wd-40 (inside and out) and had to hold the pipes in place with a pair of channel locks and pry each side off. Then removing the WP proved to be another challenge. My original pump seems to have some sort of temp sensor mounted right on top which I had to remove with a 7/8" box wrench. I don't see where this goes on the new pump... anyone?

Anyway once i did this I could not for the life of me get the bastard around the EGR pipes. I finally figure out that i had to move the belt tensioner to the fully upright position and then i was able to wiggle her out.

Well now I just need to sanitize the area and peel the old broken (green) gasket off with a old credit card. Probably need to go over all the pulleys again to make sure this is no WD-40 left on them and do some general engine bay cleaning.

OK disregard there is a threaded hole for the temp sensor on the new pump too in the same spot :-) Well it's all thoroughly cleaned now time to button her up. Got the new WP fitted, gasket dropped right into place. I lubed up the o-rings and the coolant pipes with some BMW antifreeze - still wasn't that easy to slip it in so I would DEFINITELY recommend this step.

seeing that you are fresh on this topic, I need to replace my thermostat very soon. My 04 3.0 is not producing any heat and the temp gauge reaches 1/4 at best. Couple of questions regarding this...

1) Do you think I should change my water pump while I am in there? I have 71k on the X
2) Should I completely drain the coolant from the rad and the engine block?
3) Any other hints while I try to change the thermostat? I have the gasket and thermostat already.

Thanks

Yes! Change the water pump. Inspect your pulleys and your belts

1) Yes - they are inexpensive, and yours will probably fail at some point might as well do it while you are in there. And if you have higher mileage.
2) Yes - especially if >4 years since last flush. It's relatively easy to do too.
3) N/A - I have 4.4i, I know 3.0 has a less beefy t-stat & water pump and I have heard it's a easier job.

If belts are 4-5 years old or have a lot of mileage I would just change them. Otherwise definitely inspect them for cracking. For $40 you can have peace of mind.

OK - so everything is put back together now and naturally the battery is dead from opening and closing the door after not driving the car for almost a month.

Question about the filling process. What Magnum's article suggests and TIS suggest seem to differ.

Magnum:

• Mix the proper mixture of coolant and water, I used 50/50.
• Fill the expansion tank SLOWLY until the dipstick tells you it’s full.
• Put the key in the car, turn it to position 2 and turn the heater temp up to 90 degrees and put the fan speed to nothing.
• Now start the car.
• Go back to the front and SLOWLY refill coolant as needed until the dipstick says full, refill as necessary.
• Once the cars temp has hit the first white notch on the gauge, have your helper rev the RPM’s to 1000.
• You’ll start to see bubbles coming out of the expansion tanks bleeder valve.
• Wipe as necessary or let your pan catch it, your choice.
• Once the bubbles stop, and it appears to be all coolant let it keep going……….for about one minute.
• Then close off the bleeder screw, put the expansion tank cap on and you’re DONE……..!!!!!
• The following morning check the coolant level and fill to appropriate level.

TIS says to:

1. Turn on ignition.
2. Set heating controller to maximum temperature.
3. Set fan to low setting. This opens the heating valves and starts the auxiliary water pump.
4. Perform filling operation slowly.
5. Pour coolant into coolant expansion tank up to max. cold fill level.
6. Close vent plug when bubble-free coolant emerges
7. Close coolant expansion tank.

Magnum's is wrong about the fan speed settings, so maybe that was a typo on his part. As the TIS says, the fan speed needs to be set on low so the heater valves will open and aux pump (little internal waterpump in the heater valve) will be running. I don't know if the revving will be needed, but I guess it couldn't hurt either. Just be careful since this is a hot and messy job, but there doesn't really seem to be a better way w/o making a mess.

cool man thanks for the advice!

NP brotha. Just make sure to have some coolant and distalled water ready and keep some in the X for the next few days just in case any burps don't escape from bleeding...unfortunately it still happens.

Sounds like either way will work. Just topp it off with the bleeder screw open, then dothe heater thing to get the valves open and aux waterpump running, then topp off again, etc. Just take James suggestion and bring a gallon of mix with you in case it gets a hiccup and has to burp. (but if that happens let it cool off a bit before opening cap or it will spray everywhere)

yep just followed TIS worked great was a little paranoid but made it all the way to Tahoe no problem. Engine compartment bone dry no leaks.

Good to be back!

And it only took a month ;)

Haha that's my style. I probably spent more time cleaning than fixing. But hey you can eat off the front of my engine block now. No low coolant messages - going skiing tomorrow ;-)

I'm the same way, cleanin the crap out of everything. Good to see ya made it.

yep - sure fire way to turn a 6 hour job into a 16 hour job :-) I did the same thing on my Z when I installed my BBK now you can eat off the suspension lol. It's a total pain in the ass but man it's nice to have clean shit. Of course now I am romping around in the snow grime hahaha.

Hi , every body , I had couple of leaks before which I treat , they are:

1) The upper hose (Driver Side) : Obliged to change hope with the plastic parts. ~ 70USD
2) The radiator level sensor that located on the lower passenger side. ~ 25 USD

The mechanic told that these leaks are common on E53.

Upper radiator neck failures, heater diverter valves, fan clutches, valley pan gaskets and expansion tanks have always common in BMW V8 since the mid 90's all the way up to today, even in the N62 powered 745's....X5's will experience it soon enough. If you've got over 80, 000 miles, I'd simply replace...everything! Radiator, waterpump, thermostat, upper and lower hoses, OSV valve while you're doing the valley pan gasket and the expansion tank. Spending $1000 now in one big shop is easier than spending hundreds here and there when little things keep breaking because you only replaced the items broken at the time...not to mention the headache and danger of a catastrophic failure on a roadtrip or something. When people only replace one thing at a time in regards to the cooling system, the better performance of the new stuff will make the old stuff fail all that much sooner. Sometimes the movement of replacing little items also increase the stresses of the old items, then you'll be back in the shop again a week later. I know it might sound like I'm trying to use scare tactics, but I've been reading about these same cooling system problems since I purchased my 98 740iL, and seeing that we share the same motor, we inherit the same problems.

are you saying i should replace other shit now? i have 74K almost on the odo. if rad goes thats easy enough. i didnt replace the hard to get to non-typical coolant hoses. so what will my new parts be stressing exactly? i am worried about that valley pan gasket as well. i fear that oil seperator is next. please advise. hard for me to justify laying down the cash on preventative maintenance.

LOL...up to you bro. I thought you replaced just about everything anyways. What didn't you replace? Maybe I can give you my .02 about what you might wanna consider doing before summer hits.

coolant reservoir was replaced 4 years ago and looks fine, besides that i replaced:

- water pump
- water pump small hose
- thermostat
- both belts
- upper rad hose
- lower rad hose
- both reservoir hoses

what i did not replace

- radiator
- small hose that runs length of radiator
- any other coolant hoses

I'd be cautious of the radiator neck and the fan clutch blades. Not try to go for scare tactics here, but the necks are prone to cracks. I've seen a handful fan blades that got so dry and brittle that they broke under centrifugal force...taking out everything in their path and literally going through the hood in a few instances. I've deleted my fan clutch for an electric fan conversion years ago.

Greetings from London,

I'm having my annual X5 issues so could do with your help.

It’s a 2001 Euro V8 44,000 Miles

Coolant Leak
Rear Wiper gave up the ghost, sounded like the motor was being strangled, then stopped.

I've had a good read of all the information on here re losing coolant and have realised the Coolant Reservoir PN 17107514964 needs replacing.

You can see small veins of coolant coming out the join in the reservoir after time it fails big time.

Its MOT test is due so I informed the garage of the easy job and they said they'll swap it.

He called me today telling me he'd be ordering the part (why did you not pre-order). In his opinion the system heated up too quickly suggesting may be a head gasket, too much pressure.

He'd have to replace the reservoir to tell, my shit Sherlock.

I challenged his sweeping statement based on:

1) My knowledge of how long it takes to heat up from cold

2) The numerous other more frequent reasons documented on this great site (water pump, oil separator etc....etc..)

3) No discharge on the oil cap

4) No change in exhaust output

I said I'd pop down tomorrow morning to see it for myself.

Can the coolant pressure be tested?

How do you tell the head gaskets gone or going?

Thanks

B

the coolant can be tested for hydrocarbons , if present that would possibly indicate head gasket failure .
the probe used for exhaust gas analysis can test the coolant or a sample of coolant can be mixed with a chemical ( forgot what it`s called , which will change colour if hydrocarbons present .

Thanks for the info,

I flushed the system fully yesterday and replaced the tank.

All seems to be fine,no leaks, no increase in temp, no change in performance or idle

I'm getting the system pressure tested so I'd like to think that will be conculsive.

I may by a test kit to have a go anyway.

Thanks,

B

i have my fair share. got the 'check coolant level' msg the other day. open up the reservoir & it appeared empty. fortunately the leak was easily to find. see pic below. filled up about 1 litre of 50/50 mix for time being. good thing that the leak is not elsewhere. also found that the hose connecting to the ATF reservior is leaking. my goodness. :(

Well it passed it's MOT (UK test) and they did a hydrocarbon test and it came back negative (no exhaust gases in the coolant).

I drove it 80miles watching the temp like a paranoid freak.

The guys still think the pressure builds up in the coolant system too quickly but were unable to test it saying I should take it to BMW.

What’s too quickly, any ideas?

My initial thought is they have no experience with V8's and should stick to tests however until I know for sure it's not worth taking the risk. Off to the dealership to pay $198 P/HR.

Nice !

Hey Guys! Long time reader..first time poster. I recently replaced my waterpump and thermostat on my x5 2001 4.4. I've noticed now a leak under the car and have traced it back to the water pump pipe (the small one) right behind the water pump. From reading this thread and others, it apprears to be the O-ring on the pipe, but we replaced it when I did the water pump.

Do you guys think it is simply loose or not fully inserted? Does this mean I have to take it all apart again or do you think I can push it in from the back side (I would guess using something thin). If I have to take it apart again, is it easier to go via the intake manifold or back through underneath (removing the water pump).

Appreciate any advice I can get on this. Thanks all!

take off the undertray and the fan again to go take a look at how its leaking. chances are it wasn't inserted all the way in. did the retainer clip lock into the grooves on the water pump?

You are talking about 2 pipes (run the length of engine block, one is smaller than the other right?). if the leak is small try re-tighten the WP carefully, these pipes are precise length and will seal once the WP is secured to the front engine block, again I assume you didn't forget to have o-ring in the WP during installation. If the leak is from the back, coolant manifold, well time to just do the VP gasket then. Hope not the latter, good luck.

whoops.. i thought he meant the smaller hose on the bottom of the pump...

Correct. The leak seems to be from the smaller one right where it connects to the WP. I can see it drips slowly and putting my finger on the pipe (lower part), I feel the coolant. The WP is secured tightly but will triple check tonight. My friend did the install and the O-ring came with the pump so I'm guessing he did put it in (will confirm with him again). If the O-ring was not there, I would assume the leak would be alot more than some slow drips right?

I'm wondering if the O-ring slipped out while the WP was being put in. I will see if I can stick a tiny mirror in there and see if I can see the pipe and ring and leak. Do you recommend, I just put in a new O-ring and go via the bottom (removing the WP). I heard you can go from the top (intake manifold) as you will be able to see the entire pipes.

If someone put a gun to my head, I'll say you have broken o-ring on that small pipe or even missing one. The o-ring suppose to sits in the groved inside WP so not sure if you can check the oring and put one w/o removing the WP completely. You can try your idea first.

If you want to avoid the dealership, find a little mom and pop shop or goto your nearest Harbor Freight and pickup a pressure tester. They're easy to use and then you just start looking around till your find the blue stream coming from your engine.

Just developed a coolant/ water leak. I belive my filler/ resevoir tank has a hair line crack or two in it. Where can I get a cheep replacement besides the local dealer? Also, my washer fluid has been leaking big time around the rubber area of the sensor, I"m guessing I have to replace the rubber - bushing- thing?

Never mind. I Found one. Thanks anyway.

Not too long ago, I was having problems with that too.

I got the "Check coolant message" and the resevoir was empty. I bought and refilled the coolant and after driving it for 5 minutes, the coolant poured right out. It turned out that the Radiator was cracked (made of plastic) and had to be replaced.

Mark, the big question...why wasn't your engine overheating?

Holy thread jacking batman. Good to see my post resurrected multiple times. My 2 cents - hopefully your buddy lubed the outside of the pipes and/or o-rings with coolant so the o-rings weren't pinched or rolled off the grooves. Obviously the seal is not tight for some reason. Unfortunately it sounds like you'll have to remove the WP again. Get a new set of o-rings. I may have an extra set laying around if you want them.

Same thing happened to me. I was losing coolant which was coming out of the reservior tank which was cracked.

According to the tech who's my cousin, this happens a lot in these models.

After having my cracked radiator replaced, the car ran fine for a little over a month. Then, one morning my wife noticed the "check coolant level" warning again. We added additional coolant and she drove it to work. When she was about to drive home, a puddle of coolant was underneath the car (driver side)
I added some coolant this morning and started the car (cold start) and waited till the engine warms up, but no leak. Apparently, as I was about to turn the car off, the coolant leak was coming from the resovoir tank (top lid) It looks its leaking out from the pressurize cap.


Update: I checked again this evening and there's still no leak underneath. It appears that it will only leak out of the reservoir tank, when the engine is warm and running. Any ideas what may be causing this?

coolant leak
 

If you do remove the plate for inspection, do not drive without it ,some of the bolts secure the sway bar...
Your best bet is to pressure test the coolant system, this will show you where the leak is...And if you can`t see where it is coming from...This is where it gets complicated.
Under the intake manifold there are coolant tube(s) that connect to the rear coolant pipe (connected to the rear of the heads) this tube(s) have O-rings that get stiff and will leak under pressure. The bad news is it very difficult to see in this area w/o taking parts out.
Good luck