Battery dies fast.
 

Hi Guys,
My battery is dying once every 2 days or so,
I keep it charging every day,so I have a sure start at work,shopping mall parking etc.
FSR changed recently...battery is new form the dealer
if I get a weary crank,which happens often I just let the X idling for 5 min and it restarts like charm,so I assume the alternator is kind'a charging the battery.
I bought a battery/alternator tester that goes to the cig.lighter and it's showing no alternator LEDs when coming to stop or some equipment is turned on and they come on in about a second,so that shows that the voltage is dropping below 13.4 V or so.
So far I was lucky to start every time I had to go to work,but this problem is getting worse,so any advise is welcome.
Thankx.

put a meter on it and measure the current draw when the vehicle is asleep. disconnect fuses until it is under 50ma.

Yeah,that's what I am planning to do this week end,if I understand the technique described here is pretty the same they are gonna perform @ Dealer,right?

I'd check the alternator. It might be cutting out when it gets hot.

I am wondering if it could give the right Volts but low Amps?
What do you think?
In that case,I guess,battery would not get a fully charged.

That's why an alternator test loads it down and tests the output amperage.

Hi Weasel!
Thanks for an input.
I am kind of busy to go and just get a simple test,shame on me...
Well,I guess any mechanic shop could check that out,right?

Yep, but not all mechanic shops can track down a parasitic draw... in fact most aren't even equipped to do so.

About that FSR: turn off the car and let it set for half an hour. Go back in and put your head under the dash and listen to see if you can hear the fan blowing at a low level. If so, your FSR is not good.

No need to wait half an hour... the fan should not be blowing at all with the ignition off.

Hi Guys,
I just performed the Draw Test and to my surprise after car went to sleep the draw was of 0.02 Amps
If the shifter light is on it "sucks" 0.47 Amps with the lights on 3.50 Amps
As soon as it's off just 0.02 Amps
My guess is that should be a OK or it's still a high ?
Just my calculation, with a 0.02 amps draw my fully charged battery should last around 180 days.

when you attached the volt meter to the car, did you keep the car alive, by leaving the gound connection on? if you disconnected the battery, you may have reset a control unit which may have caused the draw to go away.

You know,
I accidentally disconnected it,I didn't think about this possibility,
I thought if there's a draw it will be present at any time.
Shoot,if you're right I am gonna need to redo the test tomorrow.
Thanks for you input.

Symptoms suggest a draw but 20 milliamps (0.02) is normal when all electrics shut down (shifter light off). It could be that you cured the problem as killcrap suggests. Do you have the factory cell phone installed? I have but the actual mobile is not the original one with the BMW firmware and if I leave it plugged in the cradle the electrics won't shutdown and the battery will drain in a couple of days.

Hi Brian,
No cell option...
I am considering to rerun the test tomorrow morning,run it the way X stays with uninterrupted power.
Also I've got some instruction from Weasel,so I am gonna go ahead and check them all together.
Will write down the progress.
I am gonna find these freaking Gremlins :angryfire

I am in the process of the draw check.
So far it was going ok,I could supply uninterrupted power while disconnecting the battery,
got an alarm to start 3 times though.
locked with shifter LED on gives me 0.27 Amps...
will post in 20 min

I've got 0.02 Amps as soon as shifter LED went off.
Next step is the alternator/battery/starter load test.
Starter is the major power consuming part 1.7 KW = 141.6 Amps,it may be getting bad as well.

Starters are always a high amp draw like that, that isn't indicative of a problem.

One question... Is the new battery you have OEM or something aftermarket?

Hi Weasel,
The battery is an OEM one and was put in by Dealer.
I tried to check for AC voltage on the jump points and my meter is getting freaky every time I turn it to the AC measuring scale even without touching the leads.it's weird...

It's probably in auto-range. I'd manually select a range if you can.

It's in manual range mode..:wow: so it seems like it's picking up the current from the air,magnetic field I should say,anyway I tried using the analog one and it's showing AC current present,but it's not an accurate reading though....

I have charged the battery for 2 nights in row @ 2amps,for a week and a half no problems whatsoever,obviously knocking the wood!

IF This persists try and pull the fuse in the glove compartment for the telephone even if you dont have one
this worked for me and have had no problems since it seems to reset something but what i dont know:dunno:

Pulled out fuse #74 last night,because I started to notice that my battery started to get lower and lower every day.
Well,it seems that i am due for another draw test,but properly done one,and now I am ready.
Will post the results.
Thank you guys....
I am gonna find the Gremlin if there's any.:taz:

In this case,If the fan is blowing....how long would a battery last ,whilst the car is parked before it gets discharged to the extent that it wont start the car?:thumbup:
I say this because mine is also blowing with ignition off and car awake!I havent checked whether fan goes off when car goes to sleep,since I have to stay inside that car for 20 mins or so....
Battery currently lasts about 1 1/2 week before the starter hesitates but still starts!

I actually replaced the heater resistor(hedgehog plug)and the next morning battery flat again but then noticed that the phone wasn't working so went to the glove box and pulled the fuses with the telephone marked on took the car for a 5 mile run, the next day started no problems and the telephone back in full working order with all phone numbers still in the memory that was 9 weeks ago and never had a problem since touch wood
hope remember to replace the fuse within 30 seconds as if it was the problem it will have reset itself within that time
this helps rob:thumbup:

Thanks Rob.You replaced the FSR and that didnt solve it!Did you also hear the very faint noise fan and was the noise still present when you replaced the FSR?
I shall check the phone fuse,like you said:thumbup:

What you're describing is the Climate Control's internal fan,it's a tiny one behind the left tiny grill and it stays on until X falls to sleep,exactly 16 min.
Keep in mind that you don't need to sit in the car while waiting for it to sleep,even if the door is open X is gonna sleep if there's no motion present in the cabin,if so it will take longer,but once it's asleep even if you wake it up with some motion it's gonna go to deep sleep mode within 30 seconds.

Thanks for the information!Is the fan you referring the same fan that some members here are saying that should be off with ignition off and that its a FSR issue?
I think the faint noise I am hearing is from the right side and on the same side of the FSR.
Since I dont have to sit in the car and await for it to go to sleep,I will check tomorrow if the fan does go off.Thanks again for the tip:thumbup:

Is the fan you're hearing the tiny little fan inside the vent on the ac control panel face plate? Or is it the main ac/heater blower fan that blows the air you feel out the vents. Big difference there. But pulling the FSR out and looking at it can tell you if it is good or not, the old ones have a few big conical spiked for heat sinke while the new sytle ones have numerous thin straight pins as a heat sink.

Hi.Its the fan I hear when I put my ear to the ac control plate.
So .is this normal and goes off when the car goes to sleep.
I will check the FSR anyway and will see if it has the big conical spikes or the later heat sink ones.But how will I tell if its good or not?
Thanks for the tip:thumbup:

The old style ones are the ones that fail, and there is a raised line on the epoxy part from the circuit that overheats near the plug.

Ok.Appreciate it.Thanks a lot:)

[QUOTE=powers1;690096]Hi.Its the fan I hear when I put my ear to the ac control plate.
So .is this normal and goes off when the car goes to sleep.
QUOTE]

Just want to update that I personally checked that this fan I refer to ,shuts off when car goes to sleep.:thumbup:

Today I've repeated the Draw Test,it's been a month since my first test and in that moment I couldn't accomplish it without disconnecting the battery,accidentally...
So I've got the same result as before 0.02Amps locked/armed Alarm and asleep, 0.048Amps locked/armed alarm and shifter LED on.
I had few moments of barely starting it,but always started,about 3 weeks ago I removed Fuse #74 which is the cell circuit...I don't have the telephone option anyways.
Conclusion : I have to charge the battery once in a while,because it's cold outside,because I drive mostly short trips....
It doesn't bother me at all to hook the X to the 2amps slow charger overnight,so it's the way to go for me.

My 03 4.4i's battery goes stone dead if I don't drive the car for about 3 days. If I connect a charger to the connections under the hood, it NEVER fully charges. If I disconnect the battery cables, and hook the charger directly to the battery, it fully charges in a just a few hours.

The battery is new, and I've had it tested to confirm that it's OK. So I'm sure I have a parasitic drain somewhere. However, after reading through nnumerous posts on the topic, I'm veryconfused as to the parasitic drain test procedure. The fact that the battery is inside the car, meaning that all the interior lights are on when I open the hatch to access the battery, complicates things.

Could somebody please explain, step by intricate step, EXACTLY what has to be done to test the current drain on these cars? Please provide all details, including how long to wait between the time I get in the car (with all doors and hatch closed, presumably), and when I can start the test, how large of an ammeter I need, which cables to disconnect, which to leave connected, etc., etc. Thanks!

Have you checked the final stage resistor? Sounds like a classic case of a bad FSR.

Not yet - I was planning on first troubleshooting the leak to determine which circuit it's coming from, thus my question about the procedure. But if I could go straight to the source (the final stage resistor, in this case, if you're assumption is correct), that would sure save me a lot of time and trouble.

So, a few questions: What exactly does the FSR do, and why is it such a common cause of parasitic leaks? Are there any symptoms that it has gone bad, other than the current drain, which of course could be caused by any of a million other things? Can it be tested to confirm that it's bad? Where is it located? Thanks.

There are tons of threads on the final stage resistor issues, so you should search for the details. The short version is that the FSR is a part of the HVAC system and is located in the dash. The key symptom, aside from battery drain, is that, after the car sits for awhile, it runs the hvac fan continuously at a low level. You can usually hear it from outside the car if you are in an otherwise quiet environment. It can also give you unstable control of HVAC fan speed while driving the car.

Even if you can't hear the fan running, it is easy to pull out and check to see if it has any burn marks on it. Again, there are many threads with the exact details of troubleshooting and replacing the FSR. It should take maybe 20 minutes with simple tools to get it out.

Thanks, but I find myself going around in circles here. My car isn't giving any of the symptoms typical of a failing FSR, so I'm not inclined to take out and check a specific part before doing some troubleshooting first, no matter how many other people have found it to be the culprit of their battery drain problems.

So, back to my original question - could somebody who has done it please explain, step by step, how exactly to troubleshoot the source of the current drain in these cars? Specifically, how do I deal with the fact that I have to open the hatch, thus setting off all the interior lights, to get to the battery, and what's the exact procedure for dealing with the need to let all the subsystems "go to sleep", which is connected to the interior light problem? Do I have to get in the car, shut all the doors, crawl in the back, and do the procedure (of which I've read several different versions)? Am I making this more complicated than it is (probably!)? Thanks.

Here's the procedure described by eHow.com, but it leaves me with a ton of questions, which I've added in square brackets:

Drain
By an eHow Contributor

When a vehicle battery won't maintain a charge, it's possible that you're dealing with a parasitic draw. Testing the battery is the only way to find out. To find a parasitic battery drain, use the process of elimination to narrow down the problem.

Difficulty: Challenging [Great...]
Instructions

things you'll need:
Battery tester with 10-amp DC range [I'll have to get one of these, as my VOM only goes up to 250 mA]
1
Charge your battery if necessary. Dead batteries (and even weak ones) don't give accurate results on a draw test. The dome light is a good indicator of battery strength. If the light is weak, pulsating or refuses to turn on, you'll need to charge the battery.

2
Shut off everything in the car. Pull the keys out of the ignition. Ensure all service lights are off, lighted compartments closed and doors shut. Open the hood, and disconnect the trouble light underneath if your vehicle has one. Wait for 30 minutes before moving on to Step 3. (This enables normal drain from interior components to finish cycling.) [How do I do this, given that the battery is in the luggage area?]

3
Set your battery tester to 10 amps DC. Disconnect your positive battery connection (red cable) and position it safely away from metal components. Connect the meter's positive probe to the battery's positive post while simultaneously holding the negative probe in the air; keep it away from anything metal. [Some on this forum have said not to disconnect the cable from the battery (not sure why...)]

4
Place the negative probe on the end of the removed positive cable to complete the circuit. Yes, you're putting a negative on a positive. Yes, this is ok. If you have a severe drain, you're likely to pop a fuse or two-identifying your problem.

5
Check the meter reading. A normal reading is usually under .035 amps. If you have a minor drain that causes a higher reading, you'll need to check each component.

6
Remove the first fuse in the box, and check to see if the load problem is resolved. If not, replace the fuse and check the next one. Repeat the process with all fuses. If the fuses check out fine, you have a wiring problem.

7
Remove the tester and reconnect the battery. Follow the hot wire to the next connection. Remove the positive cable and connect the positive probe of the tester in its place. Connect the negative probe to a metal object. Check the meter. If the drain isn't resolved, reconnect as normal and follow the hot wire to the next connection. Repeat this step at each connection point until you narrow down the problem. [I assume removing one fuse at a time in an alternative way to do this as I don't understand what he means by "Follow the hot wire to the next connection"]

You are making it more complicated, but only due to lack of basic troubleshooting skills. You need to have the right tools, you need to know how to use them properly, you need to know how the system being diagnosed is designed to work, and you need to deal with issues as they arise. It isn't reasonable to have a very detailed instruction list, IMO, as you need to do the troubleshooting. Troubleshooting is based on doing small tests, finding results, and taking action based on those findings, going on to the next small test. It is like a fault tree, and you have to work through it. You need to solve little problems along the way, like how to get access to the battery.

I would assume that the rear hatch is open, and you have got the interior light off, however you accomplish that. Then you need to have your probe-type ammeter ready (I assume you didn't buy the inductive clamp-on ammeter we discussed some time back). connected in parallel with the earth cable. Then you need to disconnect one end of the battery earth cable, making sure not to open the circuit. The ammeter acts as a part of the circuit. You can use a jumper wire to make this easier, but you can't just take the battery cable off and then measure the current between the cable and the post, since you will have done a reset by virtue of opening the circuit.

You are looking to get it down to 35 or 40 mA after 16 minutes.

I suspect that your challenge won't just be reading the ammeter, but isolating individual circuits to see what changes. There are a lot of combinations and permutations. There are multiple fuse locations. And this is best done by a technician who has done it before, and knows what is likely to be a cause (because of knowing how the vehicle is wired).

For an overview, read this article on an older model BMW. It has step by step instructions.

BMW E38 Battery Drain

Good luck.

JCL,

Thanks for the step-by-step procedure; that's what I've been looking for. I realize that tracking down the source of the leak is the hard part of the task, but I was stuck at the step of how to even hook up the meter, so hopefully now I'll be able to at least get a reading, giving me a chance to track down the source.

what was the final outcome? (if you're still around here)

I wasn't able to find a significant draw during a few tests I performed,I am sure I wasn't able to do that properly though.Because every time I disconnected the battery for a long time,in some occasions for longer than 3 days,battery was charged good in no time and cranking like a beast,but....but in a week or so it was becoming a lazy bitch.
I had telephone and a hitch harness fuses pulled,both in the right rear compartment.
Why a hitch on e you may ask,I answer,one of the prongs in the connector is broken and I could see an excessive oxidation.So I pulled it.
Do you lights come lit when you crank? Like brakes,ABS,Traction Control?
When my starter spins slow I have all those coming.When it spins well only a brakes (!) one and when fully charged,no light.It's not happening on my friends 2005 4.4,so I suspect that my discharge relay is stuck from time to time.Just a guess.
Also,driving with A/C on makes my battery to get a strong charge no matter how short distances are and how often I am cranking.
I am sure that there's no just one cause and I think I have eliminated a couple by replacing FSR,pulling those fuses.
Get yourself a charger,with a desulphator function,better an automatic one,it's gonna keep your battery at an optimum performance.
I know that some people won't agree with me,but maybe an OE battery is a better idea?

thanks for the update.

Not sure who the question was directed to, but my experience was as follows: I found a good youtube video which explained how to check for an excessive current draw. I followed this procedure, and isolated the problem to the circuit protected by one particular fuse (I believe #72, but it's been a long time). I then found a wiring diagram for the vehicle, and determined which components are in this circuit (the stereo/nav, and the rear CD player, primarily), so I systematically disconnected each of these components, plus the video screens in the head rests for good measure, and wasn't able to reduce the size of the drain. So, I punted and installed a relay in the circuit which is energized (completing the circuit) when the ignition key is on, but shuts down the circuit when the key is out of the car. I realize this doesn't actually solve the problem, but it's worked like a champ for over a year (I can let the car sit for weeks on end, and it cranks like ti was just charged), so I'm happy.

So,here my question...
Why do the modules need to stay awake?
What is the point?
Can anybody explain it?