Question about upper timing case gasket plz
 

i just replaced the valve cover gaskets in the fall and lightly i been noticing alot oil leak, which seems like its coming from the upper timing gasket:confused:. i desided to change it while am putting the new alternator that i just got. put it seems to get the upper timing gasket out u need to get the water pump out or the valve covers outhttp://www.xoutpost.com/images/smilies/stickpoke.gif...anyone knows a trick or an easyer way to get it done, i searched here but haven't seen enough writes ups about it here... i would really appreciate ur guys feed backs .

It is a decently big job, takes all day in the shop... And yes you do need to remove the valve covers again unfortunately.

I have a 2005 4.4 and just had the valve covers replaced. Now, a few weeks later I noticed oil dripping form the engine and took it back to the shop to find out what is leaking. They have found that the upper timing gasket is leaking a little. Is this something that would have been easily accessible when they were replacing the valve cover gaskets?

Ready for it???? You have to freakin remove the valve covers to change the timing cover gaskets! Most techs know the seams at the top corners of the timing covers is the main cause of valve cover gasket leaks and recommend changing them at the same time.

In your case I'd talk to the service manager and see if you can get the timing cover gaskets done less the labor of the valve cover gaskets you just had done as it is a 100% overlapping labor. (pay the labor difference between upper timing cover gaskets and valve cover gaskets only)

An incomplete diagnosis by the tech falls back on the tech at my work/dealer, can't make the customer pay for your mistakes.

This was done at an independent shop that I have been taking Mercedes and BMW's to for the past 20 plus years. They told me that it is an 8 hour job for each side of the engine. So to replace both it would be around 13 to 15 hours. They said that the valve cover gasket job took over 8 hours and was extremely labor intensive having to move the vanos system. When I brought the car in for the leaking valve covers I asked them to check everything. This was only a few weeks ago. How could have this been overlooked?

So, just to confirm. To replace the upper timing gaskets it would have basically been totally accessible while they were doing the valve gaskets? Or would it have taken a few more hours or anything? I know the gaskets are not expensive it is mostly the labor. How long would this job take you?

I know you have already answered my questions weasel. But i guess I just need to hear a definitive yes that it would have been basically no additional labor to replace these gaskets while they were doing the valve gaskets.

It is a big job, and the valvetronic motors (not vanos) do have to be pulled off as they go through the valve covers. And it usually looks like just a valve cover gasket leak when the timing covers leak as they mostly leak out of the very top where they meet the valve covers. It takes a little experience to know that I guess....

And yes, you have to remove the valve covers first to be able to remove the timing covers. It is still a few hours more labor over the valve cover gasket job, but MUCH less than doing it at different times. There is a way to "sneak" the timing cover job that doesn't require removing the valve covers, but you still have to take them loose and it isn't the proper way to do the job.

I guess all you can do is ask them to work with you with the price giving the situation, see what they want to do from a customer service standpoint. If they value their long term customers and understand that they should have at least recommended doing them at the same time as it is a known common leak with directly overlapping labor, they will work with you.

My bad, I meant valvetronic. It still sounds like they should have been able to suggest replacing these gaskets as well. I am pretty disappointed with this situation. It seems like they should have known better and this isnt a specialty item that they would not have known about. It basically sounds like a shoddy diagnosis on their part.

I missed that diagnosis the first time it came up for me, as it just looks like a valve cover leak. But I learned really quick if it is leaking at that one particular seam area it is the timing cover gaskets. Everybody gets their experience points in somewhere, in this case it will be you and the mechanic on one hit.

Check the VANOS seals as well. When I did my VC gaskets, they werre leaking badly, so I swapped them out as well, but didn't bother with the timing gaskets. Knock on wood, I won't have to do the timing cover gaskets.

Allright, I am going to talk with the shop on monday. Are there any other things or gaskets that should be addressed besides VANOS seals while everything it taken apart.

While they're in there, the timing chain tensioners would be worth doing. See how much extra they would charge you.

ya usually a mechanic can miss the the upper timing chain gasket like weasel said or get it mixed up with the valve cover gasket leak... i replaced both cover gasket and after 5 months the upper timing chain gasket ( driver side started leaking)... now the pass side started a lil bit .. i know its frustrating.

things u might consider:

1) spark plugs while they r at it.
2) breather hoses (2) ( they tend to kinna melt over time)
3) vano's gasket (2)
4) upper & lower timing gasket

those r the usually things to look at while u r doing the valve cover gasket IMO... unless i missed something

Thanks guys. The car has 56,000 miles on it and the spark plugs were looking fine. I understand it is easy to replace them while it is open but I think I'll do those later.

I am in discussion with the shop right now. Some additional information would be much appreciated.

How much additional time/labor is required to replace the upper timing case covers if you are already in there replacing the valve cover gaskets??

I just came back from Hassel BMW Dealer to have my recall done. I asked them to give me price estimates on a few things that can be done. First, the SA told me that if you're going to have the Valve Cover Gaskets replaces, they recommend that you have the Upper Timing Cover Gaskets replaced too. Is that true?

Here is the price quotes on a few things. My jaw almost dropped. :wow:

$390 valve cover gaskets
$1850 both upper timing cover gaskets
$2640 front lower control arms
$400 recommeded alignment with bushings
$250 prices plus tax

I would assume this all includes labor? :p:

so how much does labor cost over there? I payed 400$ for labor work for motor taken out, corrected Timings, Exhaust and changed all gaskets as well...

That shop is a keeper.

All indy shops around Seattle who specialized in BMW or German cars won't touch removing engine then work on it for (pratically) 4 hour labor bro.

That labor price for engine removal + timing work seems one decimal place off.....

Weasel, to the left or right:rofl:

Well and that's like the best indy that does timings in my city. Good thing labor prices ar not same as in US.

Nik, so you are in Georgia, former Soviet Union?
Excuse me, I always thought (when looking at location on people's profile) I always assume USA, the former center of the world; well until China takes over:D

:D yeap, correct. I lived in US for a couple of years, but now back in my origin countrey)

The shop is going to take care of the situation by installing the upper timing cover gaskets. They are only charging me for any extra labor it would have been to do it while they were doing the valve cover gaskets. I am happy!

Good :) Congrats

That is the best course of action for them, glad they stepped up and care about customer satisfaction. :thumbup:

Are these guys serious??? Almost $3K for front control arms??? $2300 for VC & TC gaskets?? Something is wrong here. I would get an explanation on those prices.