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-   -   First time getting "Service Engine Soon" light -- Help -- (https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/x5-e53-forum/71875-first-time-getting-service-engine-soon-light-help.html)

Critical Drew 04-05-2010 02:41 PM

First time getting "Service Engine Soon" light -- Help --
 
I've had my 2003 4.4i X5 for about 2 years now. With the exception of an alternator replacement I haven't had any running or driving problems. The other evening I saw that my "Service engine soon" light had come on. The vehicle seemed to be running and driving normally and nothing was displayed on the information screen in the cluster.
I scanned the computer the next day and found that it was an error for Engine running too lean at idle, Bank 2.
I cleared the code and went on my way. 2 days later the light is back.

Is anyone familiar with this fault and its usual diagnosis?
The vehicle cracked 100,000mi almost 1 week prior to this light coming on, but as I said earlier everything is operating normally.
Where should I start looking for the culprit(s)?

sunny5280 04-05-2010 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Critical Drew (Post 729487)
I've had my 2003 4.4i X5 for about 2 years now. With the exception of an alternator replacement I haven't had any running or driving problems. The other evening I saw that my "Service engine soon" light had come on. The vehicle seemed to be running and driving normally and nothing was displayed on the information screen in the cluster.
I scanned the computer the next day and found that it was an error for Engine running too lean at idle, Bank 2.
I cleared the code and went on my way. 2 days later the light is back.

Is anyone familiar with this fault and its usual diagnosis?
The vehicle cracked 100,000mi almost 1 week prior to this light coming on, but as I said earlier everything is operating normally.
Where should I start looking for the culprit(s)?

I suspect the MAF. It's the right mileage and sounds like the right code for it.

Critical Drew 04-05-2010 02:48 PM

Would the MAF cause the code to kick down for only one bank?
and do these fail, or do they just suffer from dirt and use. I was able to see big improvements with my 93' Subaru Legacy Turbo Rally car by cleaning the MAF.

axe5 04-05-2010 02:57 PM

Does anyone know how to reset service engine soon light without obd scanner?

Critical Drew 04-05-2010 02:59 PM

I'm pretty sure you can not reset the light without a scanner. You have to go into the computer and clear the code. The good news is that even if you don't have a scanner your local autoparts store does and most of them will loan it to you, or walk out to your car with you to use it.

Ahmed303 04-05-2010 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Critical Drew (Post 729487)
I've had my 2003 4.4i X5 for about 2 years now. With the exception of an alternator replacement I haven't had any running or driving problems. The other evening I saw that my "Service engine soon" light had come on. The vehicle seemed to be running and driving normally and nothing was displayed on the information screen in the cluster.
I scanned the computer the next day and found that it was an error for Engine running too lean at idle, Bank 2.
I cleared the code and went on my way. 2 days later the light is back.

Is anyone familiar with this fault and its usual diagnosis?
The vehicle cracked 100,000mi almost 1 week prior to this light coming on, but as I said earlier everything is operating normally.
Where should I start looking for the culprit(s)?

It will run OK as it is emissions related. The first and easiest thing to check (you may have done it already) it to check the connectors of the O2 sensors. The engine running lean could be a bunch of fuel related things including Fuel Filter, Fuel pressure regulator, O2 sensors, etc. The engine is just not getting the appropriate amount of gasoline for the amount of Air in the chamber.

axe5 04-05-2010 03:13 PM

I thought so too but I just came from autozone and they told me it was company policy not to reset them. He said maybe unplug battery or it should reset itself after a certain number of cycles. Any truth to this?

sunny5280 04-05-2010 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Critical Drew (Post 729494)
Would the MAF cause the code to kick down for only one bank?
and do these fail, or do they just suffer from dirt and use. I was able to see big improvements with my 93' Subaru Legacy Turbo Rally car by cleaning the MAF.

Yes, a MAF issue can only affect a single bank. My 2000 4.4i set the Bank 1 Fuel Trim Too Lean code. Replacing the MAF solved the problem. Unfortunately they're not the lowest cost part out there.

As for cleaning if there are MAF specific cleaners. I'm not a big fan of cleaning as more times than not cleaning doesn't help. It won't hurt and only costs a few bucks for the cleaning spray.

Ahmed303 04-05-2010 03:31 PM

Hmm!!! I am really curious on how the single MAF setup can affect only one bank. Also how a faulty MAF can produce a Lean condition instead of a Rich condition.

Penguin 04-05-2010 03:33 PM

Check for intake leaks after the MAF, particularly rubber bits that often crack. That's the most common reason for a "too lean" code.

sunny5280 04-05-2010 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ahmed303 (Post 729515)
Hmm!!! I am really curious on how the single MAF setup can affect only one bank. Also how a faulty MAF can produce a Lean condition instead of a Rich condition.

The MAF measures the density of the air. Depending on how dense the air is the system either reduces or adds fuel to compensate.

There are both short and long term values. Short term fluctuations occur in essentially real time. Long term is more an average over time. If long term exceeds 20% then the SEL is illuminated.

Ahmed303 04-05-2010 03:48 PM

I understand that but to one bank and lean? What you said would most likely to create a rich condition, isn't it? Not debating but learning through logic.

sunny5280 04-05-2010 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ahmed303 (Post 729526)
I understand that but to one bank and lean? What you said would most likely to create a rich condition, isn't it? Not debating but learning through logic.

I'm not a mechanic so I can't explain why it would read for only one bank. I do know that my 4.4i had a fuel trim too lean bank one code and replacing the MAF solved the problem. As the part was so expensive, $350, I did a lot of research and the MAF was at the top of the list of causes (behind the fuel cap).

As for causing it to it being a lean/rich condition that would depend on how it's failing. Readings from the MAF are used to richen or lean out the fuel mixture depending on the air density (or what it thinks is the air density). A MAF works by heating a thin element to a high temperature. As air passes over the element it tends to cool it down. The amount of current used to maintain the reference temperature determines how dense the air is. Denser air cools the element more thus requiring more current. Less dense air requires less current. Thus the fuel mixture can either be leaned out or made richer.

Penguin 04-05-2010 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ahmed303 (Post 729526)
I understand that but to one bank and lean? What you said would most likely to create a rich condition, isn't it? Not debating but learning through logic.

I an not sure about the BMW-specific MAF, but many MAF sensors determine the air flow by heating a small wire or thin metal placed in the airstream. It then measures how much current is required to keep the wire at a constant temperature, e.g., the greater the mass of air flowing past the wire, the more current it takes to keep the wire hot. If it gets dirty, it insulates the MAF wire and the MAF then indicates a smaller mass of air flow going by the MAF than the actual amount of air mass going by the MAF. The computer then injects too little fuel, since the MAF has indicated less air was flowing than the true value. This results in too much air for the fuel injected and hence, "Too Lean."

As to why only one bank, well, in theory you should get an indication for both banks. But since an MAF problem due it it being dirty is typically a very slow process, gradually getting worse as time/miles pass, it is not unusual for the O2 sensor for one bank or the other to be the first to cross the threshold and indicate a "too lean" problem, e.g., one O2 sensor may simply be slightly different to the other O2 sensor due to manufacturing tolerances or aging, deposits, etc. So one of the O2 sensors will be the first to "pick it up," and the other will follow at some point down the road as the condition worsens.

Of course, it might also not be the MAF, and could be something specific to one bank or the other.

Ahmed303 04-05-2010 04:03 PM

Thank you both. I see now. So if the maf measures less air going in it will send the signal to send less fuel.

I am still baffled by the one bank though.

Penguin 04-05-2010 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ahmed303 (Post 729529)
Thank you both. I see now. So if the maf measures less air going in it will send the signal to send less fuel.

I am still baffled by the one bank though.

That's how it is suppose to work. THe MAF also often has a temperature sensor in the assembly, and the engine computer get the air temperature and mass flow data from the MAF assembly. These two data points allows the computer to determine how much fuel to inject. The Pre-cat O2 sensors then measure the O2 content of the exhaust gases and, if it is too high, indicates a "too lean" condition. If it is only a little bit "too lean," the computer will use the O2 data to adjust the fuel amount, adjusting a parameter called "fuel trim." But if the lean condition it too great to correct with a "fuel trim" adjustment, it will set the "Too Lean" OBD-II code and turn on the SES light.

P.S. The post-cat O2 sensors purpose is simply to make sure the cat is working to ensure emissions compliance. The computer compares the O2 readings for the pre-cat and post-cat O2 sensors and uses this data to determine if the cat is really doing anything, i.e., defective post-cat O2 sensors will not impact engine operation or performance.

Hope that helps.

Critical Drew 04-05-2010 05:07 PM

Great Tip! I'll check that out straight away.

sunny5280 04-05-2010 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Critical Drew (Post 729553)
Great Tip! I'll check that out straight away.

Unfortunately I don't know of any way to test the MAF. The only way to know for sure is to replace it. And at $350 each it's an expensive mis-diagnosis if it ends up not being the problem.

I do want to say the code description you provided is not a fuel trim code so keep in mind we're not talking the exact same symptoms.

JohnD 04-05-2010 07:30 PM

+1 on the intake gasket. I was getting the same error last year.


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