Transmission
 

I have a question the problems with the x5 transmission rear ending, jerking when coming to a stop, happened when the tranny is heated up, could the problem be the transmission oil cooler....Bimmer Specialist

Your guess is as good as anyone else's on the board, BMW's and ZF's. No one seems to have any clue.

I had a similar issue with my 2000 4.4i. The problem ended up being the transmission valve body assembly. It was replaced and everything was good to go.

hi everyone just got the x back today for the jerking problem as described in this thread when coming to a slow gradual stop...and guess what they kept the sav for a week and it still does it..the repair order says the tech and shop foreman went for a ride and tranny performs as designed..these guys couldnt get laid in a whorehoise with a fist full of fifties...anyway this is what it says on the work order...customer states when coming to a slow full stop there is a jerking from the transmission... 0000005 interrogating fault memory in diagnosing system 7574WP40L..2499000 open time job time without allowance for automatic transmission 7574WP40L..23838 could not verify - perform short test no faults in transmission check mounting ok- performed roadtest confirmed bump on stopping performed trans adaptive reset ok now roadtested by both shop foreman vehicle performs as designed..and low and behold i drove it out of the parking lot and bump was present..got home and called bmw na and now they are involved...2005 with 4.4 with 24k miles...also when i spoke to the service manager this morning i told him that my s/a told me that the tech checked the fluid level in the tranny..last i learned from this site is that the tranny is a sealed unit and no way to check fluid inside without removing the drain and fill plugs..service manager told me that they can check because there is a window on side of tranny that they can see fluid..i think he is full of poopie..can someone advise me if this window really exists...so sorry for the long post...thnanks rob

It's a window alright , but it's made of sheet metal and you need an x-ray to see through it.

At least you didn't get the "could not replicate" stamp that seems to pervade all in-warranty problems. Plus you should consider yourself lucky, last time my car was road tested for a problem, the odometer read 1 mile more than when I dropped it off.

In all seriousness, wow, 24,000 miles and this frequent of a problem! Keep us updated as to what BMW will say. BTW, which version of "the lurch" would you classify as your ailment?

Can't wait to here this one ends up.... good luck !

:popcorn:

Seems this is a common problem, I still havn't taken mine to the indi for a check up yet, (Stealership in Cyprus will break parts to give them something to fix, absolutely cowboy) due to time and money but will have no choice soon, (July), as the MOT is due and by parking/hand brake needs tightening up beforehand due to slight slippage.

possible solutions vary from transmission reset, transmission fluid, to transmission rebuild. No one really knows but you can be sure that many members here will post theier findings...

I have tried all the home fix's from the Transmission reset to disconnecting the Battery overnight, all did nothing to fix this problem...

Keep us posted...

no error messages?

What year, mileage, engine just to be complete in case someone out there has anymore ideas (can nbe realted to specific year/model/engine...)

Ok last monday i got Transmission and filter\oil changed also got a transmission update, i had the rear ending problem and i hope this would fix it....it only been 3 day now but so fair no more rear ending/lurching Problems.. but let don't get to excited i wait a few more days and report back....

I don't mean to be negative but it's my opinion there is a problem with the transmission that the fluid change has just covered. Ultimately the transmission will require repair and this will turn into another example of how changing the transmission fluid is a bad idea.

i value your opinion, I know the x have a transmission Problems, but no one have a fix for it... so far the O\F change with the update seam to be helping for how long who knows

I disagree. I only drained the fluid and refilled at around 180,000 miles and my transmission does not skip a beat. I am now at 283,000. And I think it's time to do it again.

If it does, it would be a bad example. There is evidently a problem here; new fluid may help for a while or a long time, the transmission update may help, but why would any of this suggest that changing the fluid caused a problem? There are enough good examples where fluid changes do cause problems, we don't need to confuse the issue with cases where the fluid change doesn't represent the cause.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that changing the fluid was a bad idea. However it's my opinion it is more a bandaid and not a cure. And when the transmission eventually fails someone is going to blame it on the fluid change and forget the fact a problem existed prior to the fluid change. Thus continuing the urban legend that changing the fluid results in transmission failure.

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. Can you clarify?

Another urban legend for you to debunk in the neighbouring thread....

http://www.xoutpost.com/751118-post56.html

Full thread here:

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...nge-diy-2.html

Probably just a coincidence.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Yup, that's probably it. So denial isn't just a river? It drove fine for 110,000 miles, then failed 50 miles after getting a fluid change. And that's never happened before.

It would be funnier, though, if the other poster didn't have to pay for a new transmission now.

We don't know the fluid changed caused the problem. You even acknowledge as much:

"It is worth checking to make sure the shop used the right fluid. Have they diagnosed the failure yet?"

That's the problem with this "evidence". Someone posts they had a transmission failure shortly after changing the fluid and the immediate conclusion of the anti-change the fluid crusaders is the fluid change caused the problem when it could, and most likely was, the result of other factors (such as the wrong fluid being used...using your example).

Of course I acknowledged it. It come from having taken courses in failure analysis.

What is funny is your use of the phrase 'urban legend'. Apparently you know that fluid changes have never caused a transmission failure in an otherwise healthy transmission before. That is simply wrong, and IMO irresponsible.

I am not an anti transmission fluid change crusader. I just think that people that do change the transmission fluid should acknowledge the risks of doing so.

Then why did you use it as evidence fluid changes cause problems? You don't know what caused the problem. Yet here you are presenting it as evidence fluid changes do cause problems.

To the contrary I've previously and continue to acknowledge they can lead to problems. You keep ignoring this in order to build your strawmen.

You act like an anti-fluid change crusader by having made the post you did.

Reagarding risk: There's always risk in most everything you do. You have yet to demonstrate there is a reasonable correlation between changing the fluid and transmission failure.

Anyway this is rehashing a discussion I exited in the interest of keeping peace on the forum. I would request you refrain from engaging in posts which serve no propose other than to rehash the subject.

yeah the only thing i know right know, is changing my transmission oil\filter with the update have me loving my x again..driven is fun once more....

flush and filter change can help. remove dirty oil, and particles that can get stuck somewhere and whatnot. its unadvisable to do that when the transmission is behaving, but when you are having problems go nuts. the new fluid can help slipping and such. best of luck. i know plenty of people who have gotten a flush and filter change after experiencing transmission problems and have had good luck.

again, most people agree that if the trans is working properly to not touch it.

Remind me of Shroud of Turin, former pope JohnII OKed the carbon dating by 3 acredited institutions and the result says most likely the shroud was from 14th century.
But the true believers say the sample was taken from the area that was fixed (stiched in by nuns in 14th) century, the sample was suppose to be taken from the center (yeah like the pope will alow you make a hole on that shroud).
So at the end let faith dictates what you want to believe. I believe in god as well as carbon dating and flushing trans won't hurt :D

I'm sorry, I thought you brought it up when you resurrected your infamous 'urban legend' claim. I always thought urban legends were, by definition, false. In order to support your claim of urban legend status, I was giving you another example of a transmission failure that potentially correlates with a fluid change.

PS: If you google 'urban legend transmission failure' one of the top hits is the thread that you don't want to resurect. Congratulations, you're famous! Any rehashing from me is not likely to be significant.

The key word being potentially. Until you have something concrete as to what caused this failure the example is essentially meaningless.

I was going to respond, but I can't keep up with your editing of your responses. What happened to the circular argument you posted about burden of proof? Did you see the flaw?

In the particular case under discussion, I think that the owner needs to confirm that the correct fluid was used, that the level was correct, that there were no leaks, and that the work was done properly. Then, I expect that during teardown a cause of failure will be found. If that failure relates to a hydraulic circuit that has debris in it, I think a reasonable hypothesis will be that the powerful detergents in the new transmission fluid acted as they are designed to do, and cleaned out the sediments, where they lodged in the small passages of the valve body. Cleaning out the valve body now may in fact restore the functioning of the transmission.

I don't think the example is meaningless, but for a reasonable conclusion to be drawn, I would expect something along the lines of the above. Is this the statistical proof based on a sample of 100,000 that you asked for? No, but it is how trained technicians work, and it is the best we have.

The example is meaningless until the type of analysis you've described above has been performed. Until such time it is meaningless.

Don't we need to look at this:
http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...igh-miles.html

Not much data but it's something.
The interesting part was some people didn't even drop the pan (changed filter), just flushed the fluid, if the new trans fluid will "clean" and "dislodged" crud etc, we'll see failure even more on these seven people cases. NO?

I am not arguing with anyone, but as a meber of this board I think we all need to point what works and what not. I am not advising people to flush, and if that's the "stupid" thing do to so be known on this board so others don't follow. I don't get paid by Esso or filter OEM company:D

Apparently I wasn't the first to use the characterization of "Urban Legend".

:rofl: Great catch!

I suspect my Google searches are customized by Google based on my web search history.

In 733,000 posts here by 55,000 members, there are two of you who have referred to it as an urban legend. You weren't the first, just the most insistent ;)

I have put on a fair number of miles since I did that very un scientific poll and I am still good transmission wise as well. I think we should resurrect the poll to get even more data to perhaps dispel the "the urban legend" of transmission fluids. Ha

Hey JCL,

Wasn't it a nice day in Vancouver. I spent the day traveling around Delta, Richmond, Aldergrove and finishing up in Abbotsford. I love this time of the year. Vancouver summer nights are the best. Thanks for all your help on these threads.

Good question. If owners are going to change the fluid, then IMO it is imperative that they change the filter at the same time. It also isn't a bad idea to go back in a few days later and change the filter again, because it will be after the new fluid is in and has a chance to clean out the internals that one is more likely to get complications.
It really isn't a flush (which uses a special machine, similar to kidney dialysis), but rather a fluid change. Flush is a bit of a misnomer, again IMO.
I don't think that anyone is stupid because they decide to change their fluid. If I had shift problems, it is something I would be likely to do. On the other hand, if I didn't have any shifting problems, I would be unlikely to touch it. I don't think changing the fluid in an otherwise good transmission will be likely to cause a failure, but I definitely think it increases the odds of such a failure, based on my own experience.

My real issue is simply that some people change their fluid for motherhood reasons, because they don't believe the fluid can last as long as the transmission, and those are usually the people who are most surprised if they have a problem afterwards. I think people should make informed choices, that's it. No stupidity is involved in any informed and balanced decision, IMO. I respect individuals' decisions, I just think they in turn should respect other's decisions which may not be the same as their own.

Off topic
 

It was a great day! Glad you make it up this way. We are headed out tomorrow morning early from downtown, to UBC, Richmond, Steveston, then New West, Coquitlam, Burnaby, and back home, all on the road bikes. Excellent time of year now that the rain has finally let up. :thumbup:

Jeff

Save the effort on the poll, it is impossible to get real data. I figure I have stirred the pot enough here today, now you come along to do the same thing...:rofl:

This may, or may not, add to the debate but I have just had my transmission rebuilt after the torque converter failed (lock up sprag clutch sheared) and caused catastophic damage due to debris in the oil damaging various clutches downstream and ruining the oil pump to the extent that metal shavings from the pump wrecked the gearset for 1st to 3rd too. The rebuild shop is a ZF specialist and they want the car back after 6months/6,000 miles to do a complete fluid and filter change. The original failure occurred at 42k miles.

More worryingly - and I pass on on for that reason - was his comment that they are now seeing so may of the 6-speed auto failures (not just in BMWs) they now keep the spares on site whereas they used to special order them. Most of the failures are actually being caused by electronics or electrically controlled hydraulic devices breaking rersulting in downstream failures when vavles operate incorrectly or fail to operate at all - and not fluid related.

MOST LIKELY CAUSE IS VALVE BODY. THE BORE OF THE PRESSURE REGULATOR VALVE GETS WORN, THIS CAUSES SOME DELAY AND A KICK WHEN COASTING ON AN UPSHIFT, SPECIFICALLY FROM 3RD TO 4TH. SOMETIMES OTHER HYDRAULIC CIRCUITS ARE AFFECTED AND SIMILAR SYMPTOMS OCCUR ON DOWNSHIFTS. TO TRULY FIX THIS PROBLEM YOU MUST REPLACE THE VALVE BODY OR FIX THE BORE AND REPLACE THE REGULATOR VALVE WITH A LARGER ONE. THE REPROGRAMMING SOLUTION IS A MASKING FIX. IT SOLVES THE PROBLEM BY INCREASING THE HYDRAULIC PRESSURE TO COMPENSATE FOR THE LOSS OF PRESSURE LEAK CAUSED BY THE ENLARGED BORE.

Thanks for posting. It is entirely anecdotal, but it is also consistent with the types of failures that have been reported on this site over the past four years or so.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure which transmission issue you are referring to here.

I had this fixed today...

OLD EGS and ECU Module flashed with an OLDER version then a drain and refill of the Trasmission fluid and a new Transmission filter...

Total cost was around 400 Euro (The fluid is expensive) Plus evrrything is double the price here in Cyprus...

Anyway the problem has completely gone...