Torque Converter Fault
 

Hey anybody ever had this fault code P0741? I have an 03 4.6is with about 74K miles. It is the torque converter, (specifically says clutch soenoid circuit performance or stuck off) This trouble code keeps coming up. I have been talking with some experienced people (on this forum)about this but wondering if anyone in the forums have had the same issue. I am not experiencing any noises or other symptoms, just the service engine light comes on occaisonally. I spoke with a local BMW service advisor, he said replacement of the TC is about $3K with parts and labor. He suggested changing tranny fluid and filter and then see if the trouble codes stop. I am not sure what course I should take. My 4.6 has Dinan Stage II perfomance chip, Dinan CAI, and MAF Just wondering if anyone on the forums have had similar experience with this. Thanks in advance.

anyone, any ideas???
 

Bumpig my own thread here hoping someone might have had some experience with this same issue. Anyone????

The TC warning is the first symptom...if left undiagnosed, next will be a metal on metal grinding sound. This will definitely have a negative impact on your trany if not replaced or addressed.

I experienced this with two different 4.6iS' at around similar mileage. The TC failure is a common issue on the 4.6iS. I went with a new OEM TC instead of having it rebuilt.

Thanks Chili, did you experience any symptoms when either of your 4.6's were displaying the TC fault? Was there any shifting issues, unusual noises, etc. I am not experiencing any thing unusual. The BMW service advisor reccomended the fluid change first. I am just curious if that might be the first thing to try. Ideas???

I had torque converter slip fault in my 4.6 as well, but tranny noise started first then engine light went off. Around the same mileage as you and chilliwilli. I ended up with a rebuild.

I guess you could try a tranny flush, but it is not like changing your oil. Without removing the TC it will still have old fluid in it. You can search for tranny fluid changes and you will get a better understanding why this is and how to best flush.

You may also have them drain some fluid and inspect for metal shavings. If metal is there then the damage is done and the fluid change won't help.

GL

With my previous X5, it began with the rough downshifts...some time after the fault code, i began hearing a grinding/whine sound (similar to supercharger). Driveability-wise, it was a bit sluggish. I wasn't prompt in addressing the issue and soon discovered that metal particles from the TC made it's way into trany. By this time, i was advised to overhaul the TC and trany. Had i addressed the issue at first symptom, only the TC would would've required repair.

With my current X5...i became much more observant and address issues immediately or preventatively. As soon i discovered the fault code, i promptly addressed the issue, having the trany rebuilt by a tech and decided to purchase a new OEM TC.

I suggest you get a thorough diagnosis of both trany and TC.

It is always cheaper to fix things before failure. Right now you have a failing torque converter, but you don't yet have a failing transmission. If you keep driving it you have a chance of contaminating and thus taking out the transmission.

You can pay now, or you can pay later. Since the torque converter failure on a 4.6 is a known issue, it shouldn't be hard to decide to fix it.

I think it would be a waste of time changing the fluid, since you don't likely have a fluid problem. Even if you change it, you are likely to require a torque converter soon after.

Thanks for the input. I have priced the TC and labor, seems it is about 3K for all. Is this what you all looked at. I have heard about rebuilt TCs. Anyone with experience on this?

I suffered a TC failure last December at 43k miles. A component failed inside the TC and the debris caused the oil pump to fail. The consequential damage was horrendous and resulted in a trashed box and mechatronics unit. The only warning was that the car suddenly stopped changing gears properly in the 1st to 3rd range I lost acceleration. The fault codes were read by the dealer and only reported 'Clutch Packs B & D Failure'. The Transmission fail warning message only came on once and then reset, but that was some time after whatever had broken actually broke!! No other errors were reported.

In my case, a full rebuild with 12 month warranty cost £2200 GBP plus another £1200 for the mechatronics module. A new TC was about £240. Other parts required were 'Master Overhaul' kit (£240), Oil pump (£153), Filter assembly (£30) - all OEM from ZF. Oils and gaskets etc. Most of the bill was labour - 18 hours work. Warranty Direct paid the lot less my £50 deductable.

The company I went with only uses OEM parts because of the 'high' number of failures they are now seeing with this type of box (ZF-6sp) and not just with BMW, but the other car manufacturers who use the same base transmission unit.

If your TC is playing up, I would get it fixed pronto!!

I have just had my torque convertor refurbished as lost all drive.

Linings delaminated from the convertor.

Company local to me (Near Bristol UK) charged £200 (approx $300) for total refurb of the unit.
I took the gearbox out and overhauled it (see my post http://www.xoutpost.com/regional-for...s-gearbox.html)

So labour costs were not there.

The company is linked in the above post but not sure ref import etc....

Can't recall exactly but a new OEM TC cost me around $2K...i guess refurbished is a bit less. When faced with the decision i preferred to go with a new unit. I've mentioned it before, but i swear the new unit pulls better than what i recall (pre-performance mods off course).

had SES light come on in my 03 4.6, pulled two codes, one was p0741 just like you, cleared it and it hasnt come back yet but its prob only a matter of time :/

I had the same problem now my cars at the dealer :-(

What kind of grinding sound? Could hearing those sounds from underneath when coming to full stop be the case?

I have experienced this code twice, nothing in particular brings it on. I have done extensive research on this forum and talked with several different indies and dealers on this issue. I am expecting to get price quotes from 3 different shops to see what to expect but I think that I am going to go ahead and bite the bullet and replace the TC and filter and the rear main and have the shop to a thourough fluid flush. I will keep this board posted on what happens. I talked with the dealer and four indy shops and two of the indy shops seemed more knowledgable about this replacement than the dealer did. It was the dealer SA who suggested to me to do a tranny flush first, not even run a diagnostic on the TC and its components like clutch solenoid etc. to see if the problem might even be electrical.

In my case it was a metal to metal rattle when stationery - broken parts in the TC rattling about. Best described as the sound metal plates make when shaken in a tin. Noises emanated from just behind the engine in the bell housing (exactly where the TC is). Also apparent once the car was warmed up, but not initially apparent on a very cold morning (mine failed on 21/Dec/2009) when it was started to be put on the recovery wagon. It could not be driven up the ramp of the flatbed and had to be winched on.

Also very jerky gearshifts in 1st thru 3rd (4th to 6th were fine) and tended to lock in third when slowing down meaning very hard braking required to hold the car stopped at traffic lights etc. Diesels having so much torque low down meant it just wanted to take off from a halt!! Not fun on icy roads!! 'Sport' mode was non-functional - or at least was ignored by the control system as was 'Manual mode''.

BMW Garage reported the transmission oil as brown/black and smelling burnt (caused by multiple clutches failing due to lack of gearbox hydraulic control pressure).

This is a typical sound when the TC is going bad...posted by member: Hit Redline...
http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...ercharger.html

Wow, if I had a noise like this I would have the vehicle towed somewhere and not risk driving it like that. I think this guy should also turn his lights on while driving at night.:yikes:

That recording was done right after I picked my car up from an indy shop that was to have repaired this issue. The noise had become worse after I had work performed. When I had the original issue I took the X in right away and was very light on the throttle.

My front windshield is tinted plus its just a point and shoot camera that I used to make the video.

On another note, I am working with the CA B.A.R. to get some money back from this indy for the BS repairs. B.A.R. has sided in my favor and just waiting to hear back on what the indy is offering, but most likely off to small claims court.

Hey good luck with the CA B.A.R. That sounds like an awful situation to be in.

I see, thanks. I Just had my Tranny rebuilt, now on cold starts in the morning it seems that it can't read P. I have to put it to N, and then put it postion 1, 2. and then it shows P. I have some list to repair first, then I'll take it place I rebuild my tranny and show them TC as well. Thanks and sorry for late responses.

I have talked with 5 different shops on this issue and just made an appt. for next week to possibly have it replaced. Obviously they will do a diagnostic first to make sure that it is not an electronic problem of clutch solenoid. I will keep you all posted. I cleared the trouble code a second time two weeks ago and have run a couple of tanks of gas in her and the code failure has not returned. Again I am not experiencing any symptoms whatsoever. Will keep you all posted.

I am having the same code P0741. I had it reset but it came back on today. I have a new transmission that has about 12,000 miles on it as well as a new transfer case and drive shaft with only about 3,000 miles on it.

Any idea if the TC would have been changed out at well as part of this repair. I bought it this way and since the parts were still newer and under warranty I felt good about buying the X.

I would also assume that it would not be low on transmission fluid or have a bad solenoid since it is all new.

Any help....and should the dealer be able to tell me if the TC was replaced?

Thanks,

Shawn