Trans fluid change update.
 

Soo, I had fluid changed at 65k in June. Took trip to San Fran. hit 70k and started to make a 'windup' noise as it changed gears.:rolleyes:

Trans Failsafe showed up last week. Turned off car, waited and restarted. Fault was cleared and car ran but still made the noise. Brought it to the dealer yesterday. They have diagnosed it with two seperate codes, both leading to replace transmission.:yikes:

They are in contact with my warranty company (Zurich) and are negotiating the replacement tranny.:popcorn: In my favor is the actual fluid change and high level of vehicle maintenance. S Rep says they asked if I had maintained the car well and changed fluids properly, including the trans! Considering the price of OEM replacement (11k) they might send a rep to check situation.

Anywhoo, dealer did say that it is not uncommon to see failure of any tranny after a fluid change. :dunno:

Final verdict and details soon.
:saad:

Sorry to hear that.

Strange that they asked if you maintained it. At your mileage and with BMW's maintenance recommendations it should not have been touched yet. I am actually surprised they are saying it isn't covered by the warranty because it should not have been touched. Be prepared, they make take that stance.

Thanks. We'll see. Zurich has been a stand up company. I expect them to honor their agreement.

BMW issued a service bulletin updating the service intervals. Being an 01, realy prompted me once it hit 65k.

It would be interesting to see the cause of failure, if the dealer does determine one. They may not want to go into the transmission to see, but the failure could be precipitated by the fluid change, or completely unrelated.

The codes required them to check fluid. They did drop the pan. No other useful info. Yet.

I heard that the whining noise can be caused by a collapsed filter. Its common with aftermarket ones. I just changed my filter and filled with new fluid. I'm at 70k. Seems fine so far. The old fluid was disgusting looking. We'll see how long it lasts.

disgusting looking fluid does not mean it is bad or in need of replacement btw.

sorry to hear that.
Actually I heard the same story from two dealers and they do not recommend Tranny fluid change and said it could make problem worse or lead tranny failure. and also a very BMW special indy does not recommend the early change so he said he will not change the fluid even on my request, and suggested at least 100k miles. But some owners claim their success.

No expert but this is the funny thing that to me is illogical:

concensus:
we know that sludge/particulate in high mileage car if disturbed by changing the trans-fluid can clog the passage way in the valve body, so why it's OK to have the same fluid (with sludge/paticulate swimming in it) to be kept until trans fail.
Shouldn't it be better if we change the fluid more often to avoid sludge/particulate to develop?

Seems like the change the transmission fluid issue has been discussed a thousand times.
Everybody has an opinion, a solution, a reason, a guess, and an answer.
Here's a sampling of the back and forth from the uneducated and the experts.:dunno:

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...liability.html

Transmission fluid has a high concentration of detergents in it. And the sludge isn't in the fluid, it is deposited, either in the pan or the filter. When you put in new fluid, you add fresh detergents, which clean out the passages, and move the sludge that was sitting there not hurting anything. That is the concern of those in the "don't change the fluid" club.

Changing the fluid more often doesn't avoid the particulates developing, they are primarily friction materials from the clutches that accumulate in any case. Changing the fluid simply provides more of an opportunity to move them around. If you change the fluid very frequently, you will keep on top of it. Or you can not change the fluid, and just let them sit there, it is the same difference.

So the transmission is really just design with defect built in, like a gene in some human where a blood clot can develop, dislodge and plugs artery killing the man (happens more to man than woman for example).
So any moment any of us can have trasmission failure due to this particulate dislodging and plug the valve body opening and nothing we can do about it, great design by ZF.

Makes me wonder why manufacturers don't install and require finer external filtering.

A couple of points. The particulate is unlikely to dislodge, there is nothing to make it dislodge. Power flushing it may do so, and occasionally, adding fresh high-detergent transmission fluid can cause it, but it isn't very common. And you can't blame ZF, it isn't unique to their transmission design. You could blame GM, since they invented the automatic transmision 70 years ago or so, and it is common to all automatics, but why bother?

From a fluid standpoint, that is absolutely correct. You would get cleaner fluid, a simpler way of changing it, and much better filtration. Win-win.

Now the downsides. First is cost. Second is, transmissions haven't been failing due to fluid quality. They fail for a myriad of reasons, but we don't have burnt fluid as a cause in the ones that have been reported. So yes, we could have better filtering, but to what end? It is a solution in search of a problem, not that BMW haven't gone down that road a few times.

Why do you mention cost? Is ATF that much more expensive than oil (my first automatic)?

I hear what you are saying about a solution looking for a problem; but if it cost me an extra $150 or so a year to change tranny fluid, that wouldn't stress me at all; especially on a vehicle this expensive.

BMW used to recommend driveline fluid changes every 30K miles. Probably if you followed that it would still work great. But that only works for the original owner who keeps one for a long time, which is not typical. These days it is more likely for the first owner to be a 3 year lease. The second owner then buys it as a CPO and keeps it 2-3 years. And the 3rd owner is buying a 6 year old car with 80K miles on it and the trans fluid has never been changed. I believe at that point you are better off leaving well enough alone. I suppose if changes had been made every 30-50K that would be another matter. The only car we currently have that we bought new is a 2003 Mazda that is my wifes car. I changed the trans fluid at 50K, 100K and 120K. The last one only because I was replacing the engine at the time so pretty much had to. I will change it again at 170K. I figure 50K is a pretty reasonable AT trans fluid change interval.

But in my X5 and 740i that I got at 90K miles a piece, I am not planning to touch either one. Let it ride and hope for the best. The trans may well fail, but more than likely if it does the reason will not be the fluid. And changing the fluid now could cause trouble. So I feel the odds are better in not changing it once you get that many miles and no changes have been done. I don't buy into the 100K mile service interval. I say you either do it every 30-50K miles from new, or don't do it at all.

Exactly how I feel. :thumbup:

It would cost BMW more to install finer external filtering, which was your suggestion. And any cost, even a small one, is too much if it doesn't do anything to prolong transmission life. If we saw failed or burnt fluid, and transmissions failing due to that failed fluid, then it would all be justified. But as long as transmissions aren't failing from not changing fluid, even ten years after they came up with the recommendation to leave it in for the lifetime of the transmission, every day that passes it is proving out the theory of the original design team, the ones who said just leave it alone.