spark plug change experience
 

Just changed the spark plugs on my 06 4.4i this weekend.
With only 70K miles on the clock - the X drove fine before but whoa - after the plug change, its much peppier and flies now.

Plugs were obviously original NGK and were used up, no oil or any nasty material, just plain worn. Got new plugs from advanced auto - 6.99 a piece, same ngk model and part number, but no BMW logo saving me tons of cash. Straight up took me under an hour, back 2 boots right hand side were a PITA to get out thanks to the coolant hose, but managed it without an issue.

The most simple DIY i've ever done in any vehicle! Time to relax now. Money well spent. Also did not use any anti-sieze either, plugs went in easy.

Can you post the part number ? Have the same model/yr, and planning to do it at 60k.
thx

Nice job.

My dealer told me BMW does not supply NGK plugs any longer, only Bosch. Also, keep in mind that your OE plugs had a 100,000 mile change intervals. The plugs you bought are not the same and should be changed every 40,000 to 50,000 now.

Here they are:
BKR6EQUP - NGK
Part No. 3199

Hope this helps!

Do you know what the Bosch part number is used know? I would like to change mine and use the platnium that the factory uses...

Thanks.

Here is a link where you can see the Bosch part numbers for an 06 4.8is. They are listed below hte diagram.

RealOEM.com * BMW E53 X5 4.8is Ignition coil/spark plug

[QUOTE Also did not use any anti-sieze either, plugs went in easy.[/QUOTE]

The anti-sieze is not for the plugs going in it is for the next time they are changed coming out.

^ Good point. You aren't lubing them up to get them in. http://www.xoutpost.com/images/smilies/rofl.gif

haha true - indeed

Congrats on getting back some off your lost power. I've been telling people to avoid the overly priced BMW supplied plugs for forever, and this is a testament as to why. Its such an easy job, you could replace them 3-4x over with the Autozone ones and still not be at the cost of one set from the stealership.

Sounds like even 100k is to much, 80k might be a better number.

i agree, 100k is recommended but better safe than sorry, plus our babies need love and affection lol

I've not quite hit 50K on EITHER my wife's 04 325Ci or my 06 3.0 X5..

I wasn't planning on EVER replacing the plugs since at the rate we're going it'll be another 5-6 years before we are even close to 100K (the recommended change point).

Is there any value in changing them early ? mileage, power, etc or is it only noticeable on the 4.0+ engines..?

ed

See first post ;) Any engine, from your lawn mower to your car can benefit from new plugs when they get tired and old. Problem is they don't just get old overnight, they gradually get weaker and you won't notice the change till you just do them. At only $36 and some change to do your car, it couldn't hurt if you felt the need or were just bored one weekend.

I wanted to say a bunch but it is simple. The core of the plug can develop fractures and increased resistance. Tell me how YOU test resistance @ 25k plus volts. Not on a plug.... not that easy.
All the new electrode materials will last quite some time. Gone are the days of copper tips. Tips aren't the problem unless they are clearly eroded. Which they shouldn't be in a normal application tuned correctly......ever.
Detonation and heat destroys electrodes. Way more than your stock engine is gonna see normally.

Dont trust the stealers, change as many fluids as you can, as often as you can, it certainly is not going to hurt. 15k oil changes are crazy, unless your paying for them, lol. Fresh fluids are your friend;)

Plugs are a mileage thing. Seeing as BMW says OE plugs are good for 100,000 miles, you are only half way there. Yours should be fine for another 40,000 or 50,000 miles, but if you want to go James's route and change them now, you will still have to change them at 100,000 miles if you use the cheaper after market plugs. Unless changing plugs gets you off, you still have a lot of miles left on yours.

There is plenty of evidence that BMW's running 15,000 mile oil intervals is just fine, first trans fluid changes at higher mileage can contribute to failures and leaving OE plugs in for 100,000 works. Have you ever heard of anyone who's BMW engine failed do to wear becaue of following 15,000 mile oil intervals?

See, while intellectually I agree that it makes sense to replace "stuff" that wears or gets less effective over time, I want to think that the engineers at BMW didn't pull a number out of the air when it came to determining replacement intervals. Now if you live in a really dusty climate or 80% of your driving is bumper to bumper, or some other extreme environment, then those fellows in Bavaria may not have it down exactly.

But for those of us (and you can tell just by our mileage) that don't put a lot of "stress" on the engine and power train, I believe that the recommended service points are there for a reason, and mere mortals (like me) don't have any business re-designing their scientifically developed program.

No, I don't believe in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy...

I do believe in buying GOOD, PREMIUM gas though.. :D

ed

I agree. I change the oil, filters, brake fluid, coolant, etc when BMW recommends. However, I have not touched the trans fluid and am on the original plugs at 120,000 miles. I am going to do the plugs in the next few weeks, but our X still runs like a top. I only use 93 gas as well. I have to be honest, most people are not going to tell a difference in power between plugs changed at 30,000, 50,000 or 100,000 miles. The ones who say they did probably felt a difference because they knew they were changed, imo. I would guarantee that if I snuck into their garage and changed out their OE plugs with 50,000 miles, they would not notice. Unless there were other issues of course.

I didn't say tranny.
Agree to disagree. If you like, just do whatever BMW tells you to, its your perogitive.

OK, but it is not just about doing what BMW says. It is about looking at people who have already done what BMW recommends and the results they have had. Like I said, I have seen the photos of BMW engines torn apart at 100,000 miles where the owners strictly followed the 15,000 oil intervals and was amazed at the good condition of the motor. Once again, I never heard of any wear related failures by following in the BMW service intervals with OE oil and filters.

Also, I have never heard of any engine issues related to owners following 100,000 mile OE plug change intervals.

Agree to disagree though.

I dont rely on a camera and pictures or Heresay to check tolerances. BMW is in the buisness of making money and saving money, but not for you. Changing plugs @ 50k vs. 100k isnt about preventative maintainence. Its about performance and efficiency.
Without writing a thesis, changing your oil is about what people have done for a long time for reason, not some new-fangled BMW propaganda, and tree hugger's far reaching effects of a quest to save the planet. Its cheap insurance that cuts the wear factor significantly. If BMW took care of everything for you this forum wouldnt exist.

Well, since you brough it up have you checked the tolerances personally? Do you have any data for us on BMW engines that saw 15,000 mile intervals compared to say 5,000 or 10,000? What are you basing your info on? Hearsay, perhaps?

Once again, If I snuck into your garage and changed your plugs earlier than recommended, I highly doubt you would actually notice any increases in performance of efficeincy.

As others have said many times on this forum, oil has changed dramatically over the years. especially in the last 10 or 20. It is much better than when people were changing oil every 3,000 miles.

I don't expect BMW to take care of everything for me and I know they (as with any company) are interested in maximising profits, but I also don't think they chose intervals that will lead to their vehicles falling apart or failing. At the end of the day, they want their products to be reliable.

To each his own though. I completely understand if performing this routine maintenance earlier than what BMW recommends makes you feel better, but I would like to see that data that shows it actually makes your engine last longer.

BMW engine isnt made of unobtanium. I'm sure BMW has some sort of algorithm that tells them: if they change ur oil for the first 50k, you buy an extended warranty or they certify it CPO when u trade it in, the engine will not have an oil related failure by 100k. Then it is not there responsibility and they don't care. Don't believe everything daddy BMW tells you, that's like the police policing the police. BMW goal is to get a vehicle thru to 100k while maximizing profits, as well as marketing free maintanence and availability of CPO.
Like I said, NO oil change till 100k would probably be fine. Cylinder wear, bearing wear, valve guide wear, lifter wear, cam lobe wear(which affects duration and lift), blah blah, not to mention internal corrosion is NOT going to be "MINIMIZED" with extended intervals.
Why don't you show me data that says it DOESN'T make it last longer?
Tell me why you change your brake fluid? Cuz it breaks down and gets dirty?
And we're not talking about vehicles falling apart and breaking down, we are taliking oil and plugs.

"Once again, If I snuck into your garage and changed your plugs earlier than recommended, I highly doubt you would actually notice any increases in performance of efficeincy"

If I did, would you call me a liar, and rebutt my math? (BTW performance and efficiency are hardly synonomous)

Do what you do-I call it cheap insurance.

Your analogy suggests that the engineers who design the vehicle work for the same marketing department that sets the warranty terms. Not true. The vehicle is designed for a global market, and uses the same engines (with some certification differences for emissions). Warranties offered by the various regional sales and marketing companies.

Prepaid maintenance is only in the US (and Canada, and select other countries). It is offered to overcome consumer fear of dealer prices. It never entered into the vehicle design process IMO.

Throwing brake fluid into the conversation is a little misleading; it is clearly hygroscopic, and BMW recommend changing it every two years. The reasons for changing it (and the risks of not doing so) are clearly documented.

I replaced the plugs in my X5 4.6is at 105K miles. They looked to be in fine shape. And the new ones had no noticeable effect on performance whatsoever. The originals were BOSCH in my engine and I replaced them with the NGK listed above. I would bet these plugs are good for 100K miles as well because the factory plugs were marked with the same BOSCH PN and then also had a BMW logo stamped on them. Knowing a little bit about how production control works, I find it hard to believe that BOSCH or NGK would make a special BMW-spec plug and still stamp the same PN on it. I think the 3X price is pure BMW profit margin on parts. That said, I may still replace these in 60K miles or so if I still have this vehicle and it is still in good operating condition. I hope to own it then, but my track record is not very good in that dept. so you never know.

I just picked up a 89K mile 740i that still has the original plugs. It runs great and has been getting 25mpg in mixed highway and city driving and 27-28 on the highway. So I'm thinking those plugs are working rather well. I will replace them in about a year when the car has 100K on it. I see no reason to change them early. I will probably use the BOSCH plugs this time since BMW dealers stopped using NGK. That may be for a reason - don't matter to me, both are about the same cost. I won't buy the BMW branded plugs.

I do not agree that 100K oil change interval would be fine. A motor might make it to 100K miles without an oil change, or it may not - hard to say. But it would certainly be trashed by that point either way. Once the oil breaks down the wear is going to skyrocket.

And there really isn't much benefit to changing oil before it breaks down. One can argue how long that will take in a given engine with a given oil formulation, but only oil analysis from a lab will really tell you the truth. I have no reason to doubt BMW's analysis in this area. That said, 15K feels a bit longish to me. Audi recommends 10K for example using similar oil formulations and very similar engines. On my Corvette it works out to aprox 10K as well which is determined by a computer algorithm analyzing driving patterns - more steadystate driving extends the interval for example.

So personally I follow a 10K schedule on my BMW's, which works out to about once a year. That seems about right to me.

But 10K or 15K I don't think will make a huge difference. These BMW engines should last beyond 200K miles if properly cared for. The rest of the vehicle is less likely to make it that long before causing too many problems to make it worthwhile to keep driving it.

Plus you never know what is going to happen. I bought a 2003 Mazda for my wife and maintained it very well - typically changing oil using standard non synth every 5-7K miles. The radiator blew at 120K miles and the motor overheated and blew a headgasket and likely warped the head. So I ended up replacing the motor with a take-out from a Japanese market car with 40K miles on it. Could that engine have gone to 200K? Probably so. But it's life was cut short due to factors completely unrelated to oil and component wear. With the new engine I decided I would run synth and stick to the same 10K change intervals I use on my BMW's. which works out to twice a year on that car. Fingers crossed that something else doesn't take it out prematurely. But even if it does, the replacement motor was only $1K. Too bad there is no such supply of cheap replacement motors for our BMW's, eh?

i-want-in,

I don't think there is anything wrong with changing oil, filters, plugs or any maintenance items for that matter before BMW's recommended intervals. If that is what you like and if it makes you feel better, then by all means do so. I just think that on the flip side, there is the arguement that doing it significantly before the manufacturers recommendations is somewhat of a waste of money as there is no proof that it actually extends engine life.

How long has BMW had the 15,000 mile oil intervals now, 10 years or so? In that time period there have been many engines run hundreds of thousands of miles following these recommendations and so far there have not been any large scale engine failures from doing so. BMW seems to think that 15,000 max intervals wont harm your engine. I happen to agree with them and I would say my proof would be a decade of success with 15,000 mile changes. The burden of proof would be on you to show us otherwise.

what is the torque spec for the plugs? I am interested in doing this but scared of over torquing it

You're preaching to the choir about maintenance and staying away from the dealership, so why are you taking this defensive stance with me?

:iagree:As long as a quality oil is used, I've got no issues with extended intervals, and people have tested their oil to confirm that there was still life left. LONG gone are then days of 3k oil changes, I even go 5k between changes on my 270k truck.

typically in an AL head, you tq the plugs to maybe 20lbs. It isn't much. What I do is hold the 1/4" ratchet near the head and get it snug but don't put a lot of muscle into it using the full leverage of the ratchet handle if that makes sense.

Tighten till they seat and then a little bump...they don't need to be super tight. I just do it by feel.

same here - that was a better way to describe it than my attempt!!

Doing it by feel is dangerous for armchair mechanics.

Buy a torque wrench and do it right if you don't have a lot of experience wrenching. A torque wrench costs way less than fixing a stripped spark plug hole.

I am looking into the torque specs as well as I will be doing this in the next week or so. I ran across a thread where a member here said the Bentley manual suggested 23 +-3Nm 18+-2ft-lbs.

I also saw this e46 TIS

30 ± 3Nm, thus 22 Lbf*ft, with a tolerance between 19.9 Lbf*ft and 24 Lbf*ft.

It may be the same as our cars, but I am still looking for the X5 stats.

I do agree that using a torque wrench and getting these as close to spec as possible is important. There are too many issues that can happen if you over or under tighten them.

:iagree:

I agree. I went 8,000 km/5000 miles on my daughter's Toyota. It had a small sump, high rpm, and short trips.

I think it is interesting that people all seem to refer to the manufacturer's recommendations as 'extended'. 15,000 miles isn't extended, it is standard. Extended is more than 15,000 miles. Less than 15,000 miles (or whatever the lights call for) is reduced intervals, which is fine for those that want to do that.

I notice on the Mobil 1 site that they refer to Mobil 1 5W-30 as being recommended for intervals up to 15,000 miles, as recommended by the manufacturer (refer to individual manufacturers). They have moved on significantly from the 'more frequent is good' recommendations that oil companies made for years in order to sell more oil. I am not sure how long they have been promoting 15,000 mile intervals, but I found it interesting that they came out and said their oil would stand up to that interval fine, and the lawyers let them put that in the advertisement.

I wonder what the safety margin is on the 15,000 (from BMW and from Mobil) since BMW are fine with owners running far over that and not impacting extended warranty costs with CPO qualification.

Here's a good reference spark plug chart with the recommended torque values;

Thanks! 23 +/- 1.5lb/ft.

Where did you find this info?

just adding info
the sealing washer on spark plugs does compress .
back in the days when plugs required frequent cleaning / sandblasting you could buy replacement sealing washers .

I don't remember but its one of the e39 forums and barely remember i saved it, memory is so bad thats why i asked what pn for x5.

Good point. I have been wrenching for almost 30 years and built many cars and engines. And changed more plugs in AL heads than you could imagine. Back in my hot rodding and drag racing days I used to change plugs once a month and did valve lash every couple months too. So I can very easily get ~20 by feel. But not everybody has that experience to draw from ;)

I'm ordering my plugs and an OBD2 scanner from Advance Auto

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Whoa, Whoa, Whoa.... Pump your brakes! Did I hear someone say that a BMW motor could go 100,000 miles WITH NO OIL CHANGE?????

No way no how!!!

I was motorcycle mechanic for 12 years, I have seen enough and understand enough to know that is completely impossible!
I dated a chick years ago who bought a new 2001 vw golf. She NEVER CHANGED HER OIL, and it sounded
Like a hand full of bolts in the dryer at 20k AND it finally died at 33k. (lower rod bearing wore out so bad it finally broke off and the piston in the cyl with the dangling rod stopped the crank from turning the next time it came around)

Again, no way, no how.

No, you need to read the entire thread again.

One poster said that the 15,000 mile intervals are fine for normal use, and that there wouldn't be any detectable extra wear by 100,000 miles. He referenced examples demonstrating that.

Another poster said that 15,000 mile intervals are crazy, and are a BMW plan to sell more vehicles. He carried on to say that you could go 100,000 miles without changing the oil, and you should expect to find the engine totally bagged by that point.

You need to check the functioning of your sarcasm detector. ;)

O.... Well then. I guess your right. Well....:p: ( <----- that's all I got! lol)

That's funny - I know a woman who did the same thing. Her first new car, she was young and didn't know any better. And she never changed the oil. the motor failed at some point - probably had 20-25K miles on it. 4 banger mazda. She got lucky and the dealer replaced it under warrantee. I will make sure my daughters know better!! They already know how to manually bleed brakes pretty well as they have been helping me with that task since they could reach the pedals. They used to fight for who got to do it, and now that they are teenagers they fight for who "has" to do it. :D

When our two girls (now 23 and 21) got their first vehicles at 16 and 17, a Toyota and a Honda, purchased with a good portion of their own money, I impressed on them the importance of maintenance. The deal was, they could go to a shop and pay for service, or they could assist me and I would do the services. They had to put on coveralls and help, though. Once they had helped do three semi-annual oil changes each, I carried on doing them myself for them. In that time, however, they learned their way around under the hood, and one of them did two front brakes job with me, pads and rotors. This built on another family rule that we would help them buy their first car, but it would have a manual transmission, and they would learn and take their driving tests on it. There were no objections, and they are both happy that they aren't stuck with automatics (which they refer to as boring). One of them told me about a Facebook group called Chicks that Drive Sticks. They are both better drivers because they appreciate car control (practicing skids in the snow), and can understand basic maintenance procedures.

I wanted to provide some balance to the 'girls that don't maintain cars' comments above, because I don't think it is strictly a female thing. I remember a near-new F350 that came into the shop, very noise engine. The oil had never been changed, and it had been operated in very dusty conditions offroad. Don't remember the mileage, but it was in the order of 20,000 km. We installed a new engine. The driver was 19, and male, not paying his own bills, and his dad wasn't very happy.

this thread has evolved into women and how they maintain cars... lol.. joke... good thread.

"They used to fight for who got to do it, not that they are teenagers they fight for who "has" to do it."

LOL, At first they cant get enough, then they cant get away-

Kinda like owning an x5 probably..........................buzzkill:)

ya - should have read "now that they are teenagers" oops - I'll edit that typo. But ya - exactly right!! pretty funny. :D

"did not use any anti-sieze either, plugs went in easy."
The anti-sieze is to be able to get them OUT the next time.......

No kidding....even with the anti seize paste, they still come out hard after 60k miles or so.

If you dont use anti -seize, when you remove the plugs, the friction on the threads also removes a small amount of the aluminum plug threads in the head. You may not notice, but over time it will make the threads looser. Whenever you screw steel into alum., there is a chemical reaction that takes place. This leads to corrosion which is going to eat at the alum. first, and mostly. Just use the dang anti-seize you lazy smuck.:nanana:

RockAuto Auto Parts
Search part # 3199
(NGK BKR6EQUP Spark Plug)
$6.93 each x 8 ($55.44) + shipping

Best deal I've found. :)

Yes.

A little goes a long way though... and don't the NGK's have a *small* amount already on the threads? I could be mistaken... might be thinking of the Bosch O2's.

Curious... does the torque spec account for a small bit of anti-seize? I never found a definitive answer on that.

Hi all,

I am changing the plugs and from what I can find is a gap setting of .44. I do not have any verification of this from BMW. Anyone have any insight?

Thanks.

The o2's do have sum on em. And yes the stuff is nasty, hard to wash off!
Torque specs always account for lubed threads, that way your getting a true reading. Like when you assemble an engine, I like to use ARP thread lube, its moly based and dissolves in oil. Call a bolt manufacturer like ARP and verify in needed.
When using anti seize, its easier to feel the "crush" of the washer. Usually you go 45deg past that.

Not always;

Even if that is true, the OE plugs are good for 80,000 - 100,000 miles. How many times do you plan on changing them? I doubt you are going to lose much material after 3 or 4 plug changes, which if you are using OE plugs should get you to about 300,000 or 400,000 miles. You will probably have bigger fish to fry at that mileage (if you still have the vehicle). If you change them as much as m5james, you may want to pick up a drum of KY from Costco. :D

Thank you FSETH!

No problem. You just want to check the fine print from what ever source you trust for the torque specs. I think the Bentley manual may have lubed torque specs. Not positive though.

I havent seen bosch plugs in BMWs in forever. The last 3 sets I've gotten from them were NGK.

I was interested to read the comments on anti-seize being added by various posters. I have never used anti-seize on plugs, and always understood it to be a negative. I never thought about it much, I was just trained to install plugs dry. If they are tight, make sure that you change them when they are cool. If they are torqued properly going in, they come out fine in my experience.

Not sure why there is a concern over aluminum and steel being in contact. Sure, there can be electrolysis and corrosion, but that requires an electrolyte such as water to be between the two metals. It is a concern on the outside of boats, hence the use of zincs, but it isn't a concern for plugs in aluminum heads, IMO.

The manufacturers that started putting a special lube on their new replacement plugs did so to stop installers from using anti-seize and other lubes. It is reportedly nasty stuff, so use gloves when handling those plugs. There are test reports from plug manufacturers that show that anti-seize changes the heat rating of the plug. It is obvious that if it gets on the tip it causes problems, but even a small amount just on the threads was shown to be a problem in some cases.

Just my $0.02. If there are other reasons why anti-seize should be used, I would be interested to hear them.

Until recently, the dealers gave me an option of Bosch or NGK. I preferred Bosch from past experience, but was going to give the NGK's a shot. When I called one local dealer for a quote, they said NGK's were out as a dealer supplied part and that Bosch was the sole plug used. That is just what one dealer told me. I have not tried any other dealers in my area, but the fact that the NGK plug's part number has recently changed makes me think the dealer was telling the truth. :dunno:

The ETK still lists the NGK BKR6EQUP (12 12 9 071 003) as the correct plug. Might want to speak to your dealer about that. My guess is that they have a bunch of old stock they need to unload. I would get NGKs no matter what.

Also, both plugs claim 100k intervals but I would change them every 30-50k.

I think you're 100% correct.

Anti-seize, in my experience, leads to over torquing of plugs. I dont believe they were ever meant to have a lubricant on the threads, and IIRC adding a lubricant to the threads increases the torque value (at least it does on bolts).

I just got off the phone with another dealer in the Atlanta area and they confirmed what the first dealer told me. I got a price quote on plugs ($18.99 with the BMWCCA discount by the way) and I asked if the plugs were NGK or Bosch because I would prefer the NGK's. He put me on hold so he could go look at the plugs himself. He came back and said "looks like they are back to Bosch again". NGK wasn't at option at either dealer I called, so I am guessing if you do find NGK at a dealer it is because they haven't run out of them yet. It seems Bosch is the sole manufacturer as far as dealer sourced plugs are concerned.

Just me personally, but unless there are issues, I refuse to change out OE plugs before 80,000 miles or so. Now, if we are talking aftermarket plugs, I would do them at about 40,000.

False. An uncalibrated torque wrench leads to overtorqueing.

What do you think bmw has a plug factory? OE and aftermaket are the same, just rebranded. A platinum or iridium tip plug w/one ground electrode is just that. No matter the maker. Two plugs of the same design and different brand are the same plug.

You are on fire! I think that makes you about 0 for 10 in this thread. I would just give up if I were you. :rofl:

Maybe he can ask a mod to change his screen name to "i-want-out".

The anti-sieze is not for the plugs going in it is for the next time they are changed coming out.[/QUOTE]

Anti-seize is not for aluminum engines.

I'll agree with that. I think a more precise way of saying it is that antiseize, or thread lubricant, leads to increased clamping force for the equivalent torque value. The poster may have been suggesting that the increased clamping force is equivalent to that applied by an increased torque setting on a dry bolt. Since you are using a crush washer, that increased clamping force can be too much.

You appeared to support the use of torque wrenches earlier in this thread, but are now suggesting just to seat the plugs, and then turn them 45 degrees more. If you didn't use that anti-seize, you could rely on the torque settings.

I am also still wondering how aluminum and steel have a chemical reaction going on without the presence of an electrolyte. So steel and aluminum can't be bolted together in a dry environment without an insulator between them?

You're kidding, right?

I FTFY:
Two plugs of the same design and construction, that meet the same specifications and quality criteria, and different brand, may be the same plug.

Products coming off a production line are routinely tested. There are always production tolerances. Routinely, those that meet different test specifications are distributed through different channels, often at different prices. It happens with everything from oil filters to spark plugs to computer chips that get clocked faster.

Working for an engine manufacturer and as a distributor of their engine parts, we often ran into customers purchasing cheaper filters from the same supplier our engine manufacturer used, and claiming they were the same. We routinely cut them open to show them the filter construction differences, and tested the filter performance with portable particle counters, to demonstrate the different filter media used by the filter manufacturer, on a single production line.

The cheaper part may work just fine. Or, there may have been a reason for the manufacturer's original specifications, in which case it may not work fine or last as long. I am not saying they will all fail, but it isn't correct to say that they are always the same, just badge-engineered.

Its my perogitive, and I'm sure you would like that.;)

Look at your avatar and how you publicly display your family, that's something to be proud of.

Anti-seize is not for aluminum engines.[/QUOTE]

Why not? Do tell-...... Corrosion leads to seizure. Alum is far more corrosive than steel.

False- lack of lube leads to an erroneous reading, call a bolt manuf.

I support the use of a calibrated torque wrench. I personally dont need one for plugs. Almost everything else I will use one, gasketed components for sure, instances where bolt stretch is anticipated, calculated on a given torque, or where stretch could lead to failure, for sure.

There is still moisture in your motor oil, there is still moisture that gets to the top side of the plug. Yes your correct, it is far less likely in a head because of combustion oils.

Your splitting hairs, and we are talking plugs.....thats it. Dont bring alll those other items into it because I did not mention them. Go with a proven brand and thats it. Only the tip and electrode design is where the difference is. The core and insulater is made of the same material on all plugs. And were not talking heat range either so dont go there.

It is your perogie? Oh, you mean prerogative?

That depends on whether the torque spec is wet or dry.

Then why do you keep mentioning bolt manufacturers? As you point out, we are talking plugs, that's it. Don't bring bolts into it. We know that the torque specs for plugs are for dry plugs.

Gee, lots of instructions on what we can talk about. We should go there, perhaps, since it is a spark plug discussion and applying anti-seize can change the effective heat range.

Thanks for the response. What is a combustion oil?

So I think we agree that electrolytic corrosion between the aluminum and steel components (head and spark plug in this case) are not a factor here. So why are you promoting applying anti-seize to the plugs again?

It's a picture I found on the internet. If you look closely at the pic, you can even see someone in the reflection taking the picture, but it wasn't me. I found it quite hilarious since I'm not even married, nor do I have three children. Nice try on the assumption though. Is that all you've got?

After reading some more of this thread, you really need to swallow that pride and just stop digging this hole, really. The more you say at this point in your defense, the more you're going to get picked apart. This is one of those times where you just walk away.

Well thats somewhat true, but using anti-seize or other lubricants on bolts decreases the friction caused from torquing, resulting in overall over-torquing

Burying myself in internet land, now I'm really bummed.:D
I sure am enjoying my problem free cayenne TT:thumbup: You guys should try one. I'm really enjoying myself..........lol, no pun intended, or is it?:popcorn:

Ok its like talking to a drunk, I'll leave.

:worthless:

Same for me with my F40 and 740iL. If you've got a TT, why are you gracing us with your expert tutelage?

Next time you are working on it, look up the Porsche Technical Bulletin 9102, Group 2, identifier 2870. Sorry, I don't have a copy. I understand that it says never to put anti-seize on spark plugs installed in Porsche vehicles, and is retroactive for all Porsche models. Wonder what they know?

JCL (and everyone else on this thread) --> :slap: <-- i want out

i-want-in,

Please feel free to grace the guys at the Porsche forums with your presence and abundance of automotive knowledge seeing as you have struck out here many times over. :rofl: In all seriousness, all you have done in this thread is spread misinformation. Not much of anything you have said is true or makes sense, regardless of how right you think you are.

I literally just laughed in my Captain Morgan eggnog....nice.

Per NGK and Bosch, the plug gaps on the plugs for the X5 are not adjustable. Take them out of the box and use them. If they have been dropped, then the reduced gap is visible, and you shouldn't use them.

The porsche forum is boring.......they dont break that much. Seriously, I dont know why u guys are worried about plugs anyway, it's not the bane of the x5. Its the whole x5....lol.:nanana: Ok, I'm out-

Later troll. Come back when you get your facts straight and/or have anything at all to offer here.

I was very surprised to see a quad tip.

The plugs from both NGK and Bosch are non adjustable. To be more clear, they mean they are not to be adjusted and come pre-gapped. Anyone who's touched them would also know that it would be pretty tough to get a gap gauge in there with the quad setup they've got.

they even come with cardboard sleeves to keep exactly this from happening

I still look at them when installing them to make sure they haven't been dropped, despite the cardboard or clear plastic protective sleeves.

Msammy is thinking of single electrode plugs, and not even all of those can be gapped by the installer, as the insulator will break on many of them if a feeler gauge is inserted.

I still have my feeler gauges in my roller cabinet though. You never know when you might need to set the points on a classic.

Same here.

I've had that happen to me on Iridium plugs. Put the gauge in, it checks out, then you hear something fall on your workbench. Invariably it's the electrode. The last time I used my feeler gauges was when I had to shim E46 M3 lifters.

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzt: incomplete answer. The correct answer is that an uncalibrated torque wrench MAY lead to a torque value that is over or UNDER the specified range. It may also lead to a perfectly correct torque value.

I see where you were going, but between this and all the other drivel you have spewed forth, I just couldn't leave this one alone. :nanana:

Also, the "family" sticker that M5james has as an avatar is also a novelty t-shirt. You don't get out of your mom's basement much I guess.

Wow.... just wow. Just read this whole thread. There is some really good, substantiated information on here from the usual suspects. Then there is some really bad, misguided information by people too big-headed to soak in the accurate info backed up by documented testing and experiences. Threads that go this direction usually make me pull up a chair then grab a coke and some popcorn.:popcorn:

Yeah, go figure, I was thinking back to the days of replacing plugs, cap, points and rotor on my 1969 GTO. You learn something new everyday. I think I'll take a shot at replacing my plugs in my X5 since gap isn't an issue and I haven't had much fun working on my cars lately. God I miss that GTO!

Not sure if you've got Autozone in your neck of the woods, but you can get them there for about $7 a piece vs the dealership at about 4x that.

BMW radiators and transmissions are already made of Polonium, hence why they blow up so easily. Cool to see it being used in spark plugs as well :thumbup:

Cool plugs. Hadn't seen them before, so I had to go and read about them. The radioactive Polonium had a half-life of 138 days, so while in theory it did help ionize the air around the electrode, it didn't do so for long.

So Firestone was making exploding plugs before tires...good to know ;) I wonder how well protected the workers were in that factory when they had to deal with that stuff everyday!

Oh I'm sure they had paper filter masks and rubber gloves, that's all they needed back then. Bet the factory was insulated with asbestos too. ;)

Cough cough...

Helped keep their retirement pension costs in line.

:rofl:

I wouldn't put something like that past big business today...

I'm pumped with the current 37k on the clock..

My other bmws have 265k and 180k :D

Reviving this thread. Got some misfire codes and since I'll be doing due dilligence checking for air leaks, bad connections, etc., I figured I'd just replace the plugs after pulling them to inspect the coil packs and plugs. 67k or so on the clock now so might as well even if it is too early... I am torn between using the 3 foot or 5 foot cheater bar on my spark plug wrench. Torque is cheap.:nanana:

Engine also threw a mechanical thermostat related code, so it gets a new thermostat too! M5James has already told me what knuckle scraping fun I'm in for changing that out...:thumbup:

Wonder what other opportunities for success I'll find while I'm in there poking around...

I used 2 10" extensions and one 6" and a wobble ( 6" extension on the plug socket, then the wobble and the two 10" extensions) with a 3/8" ratchet. Worked like a charm. In and out in ~1h15 taking my sweet time.

How do you get the plastic covers off that cover up the coils? The main one with the four torx screws was easy. These other two I just looked at, tugged on a bit, looked at again for some mechanical item holding them on, shrugged shoulders and posted this message...<sigh> I'm sure it is simple and I'm just frustrated...

Drink a beer, calm down...then pull real hard! I'm kidding. There are two bolts under some thumb sized covers that pop out w/ a flathead screw driver, then remove the two bolts and the covers will lift right off. There are 2 or 4 bolts holding down the coils, lift them straight out, then swap the plugs. This is one of those times where you could have just called/texted me man :)

Actually if you have the 2005 V8 you have the ilver covers instead of the black covers. The black ones unbolt as James described, the silver ones pull off. (snap into rubber grommets) Just stick your fingers in there where the valvetronic motors shoot out the top and pull.

All this makes me kind of happy I was cheap and got the I6. 30 Min with 0 BMW experience and all 6 plugs changed with NO effort. I did change them at 61k. Cheap and easy maintenance with the I6.

This ^

What is the difference?

You can get the BMW NGK plugs from Discount Auto or Autozone....they're pretty much identical. I wouldnt use POS Bosch plugs if you paid me.

Thanks Weasel. I knew how to do the other one, having pulled plugs many times on the race car, etc. w/the nut that holds the plastic cover. This being different and it being late at night (I didn't post until the next afternoon when I was slacking off at work), I wanted to be sure.

The coils are just held on by friction too in the N62 motor, so no more nuts to drop into the nether regions of the vehicle. Nice!

The thermostat change should be fun too...<sigh> Looks like a hand scratcher.

I don't know if we will ever get a clear answer to this. I talked to an NGK rep a while back and he couldn't confirm that they were the same exact plugs as OE. He could only tell me what their website said, which was that the NGK Laser Platinum #BKR6EQUP plugs are Original Equipment Manufacturer, and/or Original Equipment Service Part.

I guess if you change your plugs every 40-60k or so, you can use the BKR6EQUP from trusted retailers with confidence they will work fine.

He was able to tell me the NGK Iridiums, that many here use, only last half as long as BMW OE plugs.

Late report back due to family issue I had to attend to.

Put in a new thermostat (had a code for that) and then dropped in 8 shiny new plugs. Drove nearly 1000 miles since putting them in and no check engine light!

Excellent.

Thanks for the help all.

OK gang - what's the consensus on 3.0L plugs?
 

I need to put a set of plugs in my 251,000 mile X5 3.0L. It was some
100,000 miles ago that I last replaced plugs and I can't remember which ones I used. Seems like it was the 4 ground NGK BKR6EQUP ones.
Sparkplugs.com has 'em at $8.48 each. I seem to recall that Autozone has them for about $7

Input please!

BTW, the latest repair on my chariot was the replacement of the fuel pump and relay for $666.41 today. The fuel pump alone was $405!

Well, I am going to pull a 180 and go against everything I have said in this thread as well as many other spark plug threads. I pulled the orignial plugs on my 02 4.4i with 122,000 miles this weekend. I figured they would be Bosch, but they were NGK BKR6EQUP with the BMW logo. I went down to Autozone with an old plug, looked at their NGK BKR6EQUP and the numbers were in the same place and matched exactly. The housing was the same shape as well, so I figured I would give them a shot seeing as they were $6.99 each (55.92 total for 8).

The old plugs came out very easily, which was surpring seeing as they had been in for 9 years and 122,000 miles and they were in much better shape than I anticipated. They didn't really look that bad. To be honest, even changing these out for the first time at 122,000 miles, I have not noticed any "restored power" from the new plugs.

Ditto!
 

My Indy BMW shop here in Naples quoted me $264 for plugs on my 3.0L 6.
I have always done my plugs myself and had to laugh as they told me they always used BMW OEM plugs with a $18/each cost plus labor. Those NGK's are the exact same as OEM.

As far as antiseize goes - I wouldn't recommend it. I do use antiseize on my Kawasake Jetski with Super Charger and 275 HP inline 4 cylinder 1.5L motor. We run in saltwater and a very corrosive atmosphere. The heads are aluminum and it is easy to strip a plug trying to get it out. Auto land is a much different environment.

Off to Autozone manana to get some $7 buckers.......

I took my original BMW ones off at 65K. I like to change that kind of stuff right away when I buy a new 'used' car. The plugs were in excellent shape. I used NGK to replace. cost me less than $45 and was the easiest DIY I have done, I6. I purchased before I found bmwmercedesparts.com They list BMW plugs for $13.79 each. Still pretty high considering I bough all 12 original Mercedes plugs for just under $70. Same 100k life plugs. I wonder what the diff is?:dunno:

The anti-sieze is not for the plugs going in it is for the next time they are changed coming out.[/QUOTE]

seeing how hard it was to get some of the coils out,i regret not getting the anti-sieze.hopefuly it will be easier the second time around(assuming the X can last that long)

Read the whole thread (and other threads on the same topic on here). You don't want to be putting anti-seize or any lubricant on the plugs before installing them. That is from BMW, other vehicle manufacturers, NGK, and Bosch.