hmmm..first winter snow and not too happy..
 

Hey Guys,
i recently got a 2005 X5 4.8 and i love that car. Sounds like a beast, handles like a sports car and has all the toys for me to play with.

Just got a great set of winter tires, dunlop grandtrek WT M2 on original BMW 18's but the truck is not acting the way it should.

I drove a navigator, hummer h2 and gmc envoy before. With winters, they were like a tank on the road. Now the X5 is ok, but nothing exceptional in the snow. It feels a little skiddinsh when it comes to stopping on a road with a little bit of snow.

Am i doing something wrong? bad tires? i spoke to a couple of X5 owners when filling up and most of them said theirs also dont handle that amazing on the road...

Any insight would be appreciated.

hmm thats odd that u say that. I thought mine handles very very well in the snow.

Maybe since your used to the heavier hummers etc...

hm... see the same with mine. My last 4WD was a Renault Espace Quadra - great car in winter compared to the X. Maybe it is the weight of the X that is negative for great handling.

That seems odd to me.

I was impressed with my 2003's handling in the snow recently. Mine has 17inch All Seasons. Braking traction wasn't amazing but I wouldn't consider it bad.

Looking at the specs of a h2 its 2000lbs heavier and the stock tire size has a taller sidewall. If my math is correct the hummer has a 2.4inch (60mm) taller sidewall. I'm pretty sure increasing the sidewall while keeping the width the same results in more grip in loose terrain conditions. Of course it depends on the conditions, for example Ice is different than fluffy snow.

03 BMW : 235/65R17
05 H2 : 315/70R17

Not familiar with your tires...however, i run 20" dedicated snows and have had zero issues...of course, i keep within the limits of common sense considering the weight of the X5 (and that i run 20's).

Have you considered dropping tire psi? I keep the winters around ~32psi pending load.

I have 17" pure winter tires. Breaking is the part that makes me unhappy. Maybe it is related to the fact that they put tons of salt on the roads and that is a slippery mixture. When snow gets deeper I will do some testing. Have some great roads for that near here. Let's see....

And BTW: dropping tire psi is not a good idea. Winter tires should have a little bit more pressure then summer tires (+0,2 bar).

Mine is like it is on rails with my winter tires. Assuming your x drive is working it is all in the tires. Pirrelli ice and snow.

I think it really depends on the conditions. But I noticed rally cars generally use Skinny tall tires so I think that would support the idea of a non deflated tire.

However if you are on really deep snow, I bet an under inflated set of tires would be more useful, to make the car float higher up and not get bogged down.

This link says to slightly over inflate.

Meanwhile this article claims over inflating is a myth.

isnt the point to "dig in" to the snow to hit the pavement so you have more traction and to not float higher up?

+1 for the Pirelli's here. And while it isn't as good as an Audi Quattro in the snow, the X5 is better than any traditional big heavy SUV or truck I've owned.

:confused: I have used Bridgestone Blizzak and Dunlop Wintersport and they both hold very good in heavy snow. With good snow tires, it should hold like on rails.

my Pirelli's work awesome.

i suspect it is the rubber...

Is your tire brand new? My X5 drives very well, but I do have studded tires. and it can not compare to the Escalade I drove before.

Are you driving on much snow or slush/water/snow. Some all-season tires are better in slush than winter tires. at least with braking.

My X5 is pretty good in the snow, when I run my Hankook IceBear snow tires. But my old Audi allroad with Dunlop M3 snows was far better. And my wife's Ford Explorer with it's Michelin Cross Terrain tires (year round tires) is also better.

I think part of the problem is the size of the X5 tires. I dropped from the OE 19" staggered wheels to a dedicated set of 18x9 TSW wheels with stock size 255/55-18 snows. They're too wide for some of the snow and can't get down to the pavement for best grip. My Audis always had narrower snows- my A6 ran 235/45-17, my allroad used 225/55-17 tires, and wife's Explorer is 245/65-17. All narrower than the 255's on the 18" wheels.

But the X5 is only slightly less capable than the Audis in traction in the deep snow. Reality is that here in the upper midwest we get a few big dumps a season, but a lot of lighter snowfalls, 6" or less. In this type of snow, the X5 with IceBears is fine. And while the IceBears may not be quite as good as a narrower tire in the deep stuff, they're great on dry and wet winter roads which is probably 75% of what most of us have during the winter season.

If it's any consolation, last winter in the Northwoods of WI when we had a huge snowstorm, I got out of our cabin's driveway and my BIL's Acura MDX was hopelessly stuck. Family next door couldn't get their X3 with all season tires to move at all. But their Escalade got out easily.

Odd that the OP has experienced so-so results...
when I ran in winter, on very very steep, snow and ice covered mtn roads, I had excellent confidence inspiring experiences.
Our '01 is pre-XDrive, but I did run style 57 17 inchers w/the dedicated snows. The X climbed, descended and ran down
the road like a Dall sheep. GL, mD

the type of AWD system matters. Subaru and Audi both use a mechanically locked 50/50 torsen style of diff. That is the best arrangement for the snow. A traditional 4x4 truck will have a similar locked center diff. Not as good is a FWD or RWD platform that electronically pulls in the other axle wheels when it senses slip - such as Haldex.

From what I understand, BMW is somewhere in the middle. There is some minimum split between front and rear - 30/70 or something along those lines, so that means it is a mechanical diff at that split that can then electronically add more to the front wheels as it senses slip. So this arrangement is not as good as 50/50 mechanical diff like Subaru or Quattro or truck based 4x4 SUV. But it's better than an MDX or Volvo.

I still think tires make a bigger difference than the drive type, but even given equal tires the X5 will not be quite as good as Quattro fundamentally.

FWIW - I have owned several of each of these types and driven in the snow. When I was 16 I drove a '63 Impala with studded tires and sand bags in the trunk up skiing every weekend all winter long. I never once got stuck in that. knowing how to drive in the snow is also rather key to the process.

:iagree:

You're moving down to tiny tires, of course it won't handle well in the dry. In the snow it handles great. Remember, the truck has a much better power/weight ratio than the other vehicles you have driven in the snow, so of course it's going to spin the tires and be more tail-happy.

very true, plus the AT trans is tuned rather aggressively in the 4.6is. I was comparing most recently to a similar power to weight performance car - the V8 Audi S4 - actually same HP but 600lbs or so less weight. Quattro and manual trans. Similar sized tires - 235/40/18 on the Audi and 255-50-19 on the X5. Both performance snows from Pirelli. And the Audi is far more planted due to the quattro system. But the X5 is perfectly adequate and better than most in the snow.

:iagree:

Another vote for Pirelli Scorpion Ice and Snow on 18" wheels. Amazing combination. Braking is almost eerie it's so confidence inspiring, and acceleration and handling combined with x-drive are amazing. I have owned other 4wd SUVs running other brands of dedicated winter tires and they don't come close to this combo. Combined with the higher ground clearance for deeper snow, you should be amazed by this vehicle...not disappointed.

I have 18" Blizzak's. I had been driving on my all seasons and then we got bombed with 8" in one day and my X sucked on the snow. Threw on the snows and what a difference. Great traction and braking. I drive a twisty road to the skill hill for 45 mins and never feel like I have an issue with the snow and ice when I have my snow tires on.

I did own a 2004 Passat 1.8T 4Motion and that car was QUITE good in the snow even with the all seasons.

I'm on Hakkapeliitta's and the X5 handles Xtremely well in the snow and ice. I'm not familiar with the Dunlops but that could be part of the issue.

Braking on ice and snow is all about the tires and vehicle weight. Theoretically, an X5 braking on snow/ice would be like any other vehicle of the same weight on the same tires.

But what would I know, I haven't even driven mine in the snow yet. Just put on the new winter shoes yesterday - Pirelli Ice & Snow on 17s. My sister had these on her Range Rover and said they worked great in the snow, plus it sounds like a lot of people on this forum had positive experiences with the tire.

I'm pretty excited to test the X in snow (just purchased 2 months ago) and find the limits of what it can do. I've driven a few different vehicles in snow:
Lifted Dodge Ram 4X4 on off-road style M+S rated tires
Jeep Cherokee 4X4 on M+S tires
Volvo XC90 (AWD) on all-season tires
Toyota Celica (FWD) on street tires, with and without chains
Yes, I drove a Celica in the snow on low-profile street tires without chains. It was an emergency situation and I do not recommend anybody do this!

I'll see shortly how my X5 measures up and report back.

I have the same Dunlops on 18s. They ran very good when new, but after 3 seasons and 25k miles on them, they are starting to slip. I had no problems the first two seasons through any snow or ice.

I have a dedicated winter set in the recommended 255/55-18 size, of Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25 4x4s. I was able to get around with no problem even when over 2 feet of snow dropped on Ithaca continuously for 5 days in February/March.

The only bad experience I've had in snow was when I was driving on 1/2" of snow with the stock 20" wide ass summer tires when I first got the X5, before my winter set had arrived. I was responding to a car accident as a FF/EMT, and I thought for a split second I was going to become part of the accident when I was pulling up on scene...

I definitely looked like this: :yikes: :whew:

I made the mistake of taking the M5 out in the snow and taking it to work one day...I was all over the place. Even worse was the guy in front of me in a Corvette. The problem w/ sports cars, maybe even the X5, is that the width of the tires is actually worse to have in snow vs skinny tires. Having wide tires IS just like having snow shoes on...you stay on top, but that's not beneficial for a car that needs traction to go forward vs being able to lift your foot straight up and forward for movement.

Once the snow starts hitting here in Boise, ID, the cars stay parked in the garage and I spend more time driving my 90 S10 Blazer w/ skinny little 195 tires that drives AWESOME in the snow. I've driven the X in the snow to Reno, but it is a little sketchy, and while the electronics are there to save me, they can also be a little intrusive as well.

Wide tires w/ small sidewalls are great on dry pavement, but skinny and tall sidewalled tires are the key to being able to drive around in deep snow...look at images of rally cars in the snow as they have the skinniest damn tires w/ big sidewalls.

:iagree: That's why it's impossible to find winter tires that fit the rears on the stock 4.8is setup. It's simple physics: pressure=force/area. With wide tires, you're splitting up the same weight of the car on more surface area, which is not what you want in the snow. For greater traction, you want the same weight on less surface area, so you want skinny tires. However, I'm assuming BMW recommends the 255/55s because it's a good balance between being decently skinny, compared to the stock tires, yet wide enough so that you don't lose that much performance during dry conditions, especially because winter tires have softer rubber than all-season or summer compounds.

There are a couple of physics problems with this. The first is that pressure on the inside and outside of the tire are the same (putting aside sidewall stiffness issues). So, if your tires have 32 psi, then that is your ground pressure. It doesn't matter how wide the tire is.

Larger tires simply don't have more rubber on the ground, that is a common misperception. A wide tire and a narrow tire have exactly the same footprint in area. They just have a different shaped footprint, either short and wide or long and narrow.

A wider tire doesn't float because it has more area. It can hydroplane easier because it is harder to squeeze the water out the side. A wider tire does have to 'climb up' the leading edge in snow, and it has a wider leading edge. A narrower tire cuts through better, and the rest of the footprint follows in the track created by the narrower leading edge.

Amen. Pirellis are like glue. 19's and i have to really try to slide around.

You didn't pick the wrong tire ...I have driven the Dunlops (17's) in the worst winter conditions in MA/ME/NH/VT and they have been awesome. Might be just different to what you were used to - my X does not handle in the deep snow as good as my old jeep either.

No need for any hand wringing for anyone buying winter tires. Any of the top rated winter tires will be equiv - Dunlop grandtrek, Pirelli Scorp., Hakkas, Blizzak etc. etc. - we are not entering the scandinavian ice rallying circuit ;)

I made the mistake of taking my vette up skiing the week of thanksgiving. I was only supposed to be going up to 2500 feet, but ended up in a situation where I had to go further up to 5K feet when my friends at the lower elevation house ended up delayed due to car trouble. It's good to have multiple options on a place to stay, but I was sure wishing I had just driven the X5 like my wife told me to when I pulled in to this parking lot...

You should have seen the stares I was getting from a group standing outside the bar in the evening after skiing when I drove the car out of this parking lot. At that point the tires had zero grip because they were now cold, so I could barely even move the car!! When the tires were warm they weren't too bad, on this flat surface. But no way I was going to make it up the hill where my buddy's cabin is, so he came down in the SUV to fetch me ;)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4087/...3561a1f0_b.jpg


But ya - summer sports car sized tires are really bad in the snow!!

That's odd that you experience poor handling, must be the tires.

I only have 18' and have had the conti DWS for 'bout 6 months. On the way back from Montreal last October, went up Smugglers Notch and its was around 30 deg. F and snowing climbing up 4k ft. DWS gave the X extremely nice ride and handled the twisty road well.
Must be the pairing and sizing thats gives the edge.

:rofl: yeah, there are times I wish I had listened to that little voice of logic, only to pay for it after the fact. Hey, at least you had the coolest car up there!

Pirelli Scorpions on stock size 20's here and I drove through last years very deep snow with no issues. Very confident in the 4.8is in the snow. All seasons I tried 2 years previously (Michelins - same stock sizes) were not nearly as good in the snow. No surprise there but snow tires were not available in stock size 20's back then.

It's all about wheel width size and tires.

I once ran Bridgestone Blizzak WSxx on a rear wheel drive sports coupe for a winter and took the car out in the middle of a storm (I was young, stupid and curious, lol) after a foot had already fallen and had no problem (except having to pull over to clear the snow out of the air intakes on occasion...!) where some SUVs were getting stuck.

In my humble opinion, the right dedicated winter snow tires and a narrower wheel width should get you excellent traction in snow in the X5. I run Continental DWSs on my 4.8is with factory OEM rims and get pretty decent snow traction, driving with some basic common sense -- and that's just an all-season tire.

did you lock in the hubs?? just kidding. i have a set of factory 17" wheels and tires for winter. i think the 18's and 19's have too wide a footprint for snow. you can ebay a set pretty cheap from some of our southern beemers. i got mine for $500 (4 wheels and tires) shipped with brand new tires on them.