3.0 vs. 4.4
 

Before I ask let me preface my questions with "yes I did search and read through several threads offering qualities of both motors."

I currently own a 745i, MB E350, and Ford F-150. My fiancé drives the MB daily and I drive the truck or BMW depending on weather. We are looking for an SUV (X5) for trips to the mountains in the winter and beach during the summer. We have two large mutts who travel with us.

I'm not concerned with fuel economy because I can use the extra write off. I am leaning towards the 4.4 over the I6 because of the extra ponies. My only concern is longevity and reliability. We are planning to keep this truck and like all other vehicles we own properly maintain them.

Are transmission issues in 2002-04 4.4 models a concern?
Which will be more reliable long term?
I am aware on 4.4 models w/ sport package I will have to eventually change to coil springs, but are there any other issues with the sport package I am missing?
I am not opposed to a 3.0 if over the course of 300k miles the motor will be that much more reliable.
Finally is a 2002 4.4 with under 50k documented miles a good candidate at under $18,000?

Looking to keep the purchase under $20k and pay cash.

There aren't any significant differences in reliability between the two engines. Both are solid. I think the I6 is easier to work on. The V8 uses more fuel, may cost slightly more to repair, and has more power. Drive both, and decide if you want the increased power.

Transmission issues can happen with either model (I6 or V8) and with either pre LCI (up to 2003) or LCI (2004 onwards). Transmissions don't tend to wear out (ie due to mileage or high loads), rather they have random faults (they break). Transmission problems are not predictable.

The LCI models have the improved xDrive AWD system, which is more sophisticated. They also have the facelift, which some owners like.

JCL,
Thanks for the insight. I have driven both and prefer the 8. It appears that a properly maintained V8 should last over 200k?

'properly maintained', and a little luck, no pun intended.
There are a few members here who have notched 200k miles and, 'Wally' is at/closing in on, 300k miles.

The real unknown is your buying 'well used' and hoping that the previous owner(s) fit into the 'properly maintained' category.

JCL, as usual, nailed the overview, imo.
GL, mD

That leads to some discussion of the nature of reliability, vs durability, vs failures.

The vehicle is very capable of lasting 200,000 miles. The engines are very solid. Transmissions can go that long, although some don't. So, I would say that the vehicle is durable, and reasonably reliable when properly maintained (and add in MD's comment about luck).

The issue you will likely run into is that the vehicle is perhaps too complicated. BMW engineers sometimes take the most complicated route to solve a problem. Use the example of PCV valves. They work fine in nearly every car. But BMW decided that instead of a PCV, they needed an oil separator built into their crankcase ventilation valve. That parts causes more problems that any PCV ever did.

The complication in design results in nuisance failures of parts that aren't worn out, but which experience random failures. Window regulators, electronic sensors, etc, are the types of things that can drive owners mad, and which are not at all predictable when they fail. Many X5s eventually get sold because of the frustration associated with those failures, not because the vehicle is worn out. Just because an engine is still working fine, doesn't mean that the entire vehicle will never let you down.

Very good points about previous owner(s) taking care of and the misc. quirks along the way. I'm very familiar with the quirks (long time German car owner). The vehicle in question has one previous owner and has mant. Records.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Gonna rock the boat here. The 3.0 are the better choice for longevity. Parts are way cheaper. The trans typically last longer and over all they have fewer problems. I've worked with both. 3.0i have and will continue to clock the largest original miles(on this board and others) for motor and trans. I would love for the high milers to chime in. I'm at 156k. 4.4i motor and trans have typical issues. try e38.org. same motor, same stuff. Now, power is nice, but general use 3.0i

From what I've read on these forums, which is not to say a lot, the 4.4i and the 3.0i are about equal in reliability. Both of those engines have the potential for longevity. That being said, yes the 4.4i will cost more as there is more to repair and it can be harder to access certain parts. So the 4.4i will cost you more over the long run, though probably not too much more if you do the work yourself. That being said I am not saying the X5 is "reliable" - mine has plenty of quirks, however most of them are not engine-related. As for the extra power, I can't speak for a 3.0i, but there has never been a time I wished my 4.4i had more power. And that definitely says something for an 8 year old SUV.
-Cyrus

X5 is a pretty heavy vehicle for a 3.0L motor, IMHO. I had a 330i that I felt was very underpowered. I would personally not consider a X5 with a 3.0L for my own use. Maybe for the wife to drive. As it turns out my wife drives mine for 2/3 of the miles currently, but only for 1-2 years for some carpool needs with our kids.

I never wished for more power with my 2003 3.0 X5. If I wanted to go faster, I wouldn't have been in an X5, I would have been in something that didn't weigh close to 5000 lbs.

But since the topic is reliability, I don't think that the weight of the X5 caused a decrease in reliability of the 3.0. And if I was going for high miles, I would pick a 3.0 over a V8.

I am just a V8 type of guy - I always prefer a V8 in a car or truck. But that's just me. I agree the 3.0 is simpler and should prove to be more reliable going for 200K+ miles, and generally cheaper to run over that timeframe. But the V8 is more fun to drive, IMHO. It's a trade off, but that said I don't think you give up that much in reliability or overall operating costs between a 3.0 and 4.4i. No matter what, when pushing 5K lbs you are not going to be breaking any mpg records, and maint costs are not that much more for a V8. Worth it to me. But that is a personal decision for sure.

Off Topic
 

Yeah, I knew that, but I figured I would leave the Corvette comments out ;)

I have never wanted a BMW V8. The only one on my desire list is a mint condition Z8. I would really like one of those some day, V8 and all.

Guys thanks for all of your input, there are some very valid points. Just looking for the right vehicle to come along 3.0 or 4.4 I'm pretty confident either will do.

A few months ago i bought a 2003 X5 3.0 after test driving both the v8 & the 6, as I drove the v8 first - it was a "rocket" - I was concerned about how well a 6 cylinder could move a 6000lb car. I was very presently surprised that it does it very well indeed!
I don't know how BMW does it, but the car is very lively, has good passing performance and still gets around 22mpg highway!

Several mentioned that the v8 would be more expensive to maintain, possibly due to the temptation to "Heavy Foot" it, but the one I looked at needed valve cover gaskets for $600!

I would recommend having any used car, especially a luxury car, checked out by an dealer or reputable independent.

Funny. We have 2 BMW's and both have V8's. Repairs aren't really bad if you expect it but it can get expensive. Don't expect it to be as reliable as a Japanese SUV. Two totally different animals. As for gas mileage, it sucks. But hey, it's a V8 with 325hp hauling around 5100lbs! I always believe you need a larger engine than a I6 to get the X up to speed when merging on the freeway. That being said, when you step it down on the freeway at 70, it WILL kick down and respond with a surge of power you won't experience in a I6. It's all about the BMW and the driving experience. But, as mentioned before, to each his own.

I really like the 4.4i engine. A friend of mine has the I6, its power difference is very noticeable. Especially going up hills. the 4.4 just humms right up, whereas the I6 has to go above 4k rpm to make up in decent time. Oddly enough, my SA said that they see more tranny issues on 3.0i than 4.4..i find that hard to believe (maybe its because there are more 3.0i on the road?)

Ive had two BMW's with M62 V8's (My 4.6is and an E38). I personally think that the sporty, yet slightly muted sound of the M62 is one of the best around. It's also got to be one of the smoothest V8's available, especially when compared to a Merc. I have drivin quite a few E53's with the M54 6 cyl and I wouldn't say they're by any means slow, just not near the same driving experience. The GM transmission in the 6 cyl version is obviously geared to haul the weight. One of the turnoffs to me was that the 6 cyl seems to be constantly shifting even at normal driving, and most of those shifts are happening around 3k rpm. The V8 is extremely flexible as it will lug along at 1500 rpm or scream to 6800 with plenty of torque curve inbetween. The M54 gets most of its power at the higher end of the rev range which is great for an E46, not the best for a pig like the X. Again, simply my .02 here.

As far as reliability I would say the M54 6 cyl is probably less maintenance overall as theres only one valve cover and that itself is much less labor to replace. No valley pan; a common M62 leakage area which requires removal of intake, water pump etc. Most of those cooling sytem parts are much less work to replace as well on the M54.

The M62TU in itself is a wonderful engine in my opinion. It seems much less affected by overheating like the M54. Its just the cooling system and rubber parts around it that seem to have a relatively short lifespan. I've seen a few of them with over 250k myself, as long as the cooling system is kept up to date and engine is kept sludge free and clean internally with on-time oil changes. I dont know of any bottom end or internal failures with either engine unless they're just mindlessly abused.

I would drive both and just use the "seat of the pants" feel. Let us know what you decide :thumbup:

I love power and have many V8's (including my M5). But the tranny comment? I don't buy it. Service advisor means nothing to me. It should be illegal to include "advisor" in that title. Search "transmisson" on this board, the V8's will rule.

So I drove a GX470 and I just can't bring myself to buy it...I'm pretty much sold on an X5 at this point. My only worry is will the X leave me stranded several hundred miles from home? I know there's AAA but I really want piece of mind in a vehicle. Someone please just tell me I've read too much on this forum. I mean Christ I did buy a 745i.

You can get stranded in ANY vehicle! If you decide on an X, do all you can to make sure it was maintained well and is in good running condition and be sure to have a PPI done.

This is a easy one....get the 4.4. You will never regret it. Me on the other hand every day I wished I had gotten the 4.4 And from what everybody says the fuel economy isn't much different, on the highway. City maybe a lettle bit more. But the power is worth it.

After finished working on VCG and VPG (not to mention coolant manifold), Can't agree more on the comments in bold above; got nick and scratch on my fingers to prove it;).

BTW, the engine itself will last 200kmiles wiout even trying, my 72kmile M64 doesn't seem to even have a scratch on the camshaft lobes, no carbon build up on the back of intake valves either. Can only wish my trans or xfer case will last as long as the engine.

So is this another vote for the 4.4?

Not really, just saying M64 will have more maintenance cost over M54 3.0 6-cylinder; but in general if you do 7500mile/6mo oil change the engine will last to 200k easy. I think Wally is about to eclipse 300k on his X5 3.0 soon.

Now other things like Trans, xfer case, air-spring, suspension may not reach that point w/o major overhaul.

M62 4.4i :thumbup:

S62 4.9........ :thumbup: :thumbup: :rofl:

Nope, (N63 + Dinan) > S62 :nanana::rofl:

BTW, if my X5 went caput I'd be looking at X6 N63 CPO (assuming they fix the valley-pan and coolant manifold gasket problems on that 4.4i block); Can't imagine removing 2 turbos to get to VP.

personally I dont trust the new breed of turbo BMW motors. Not considering what the 335i motors have been going through. Too complicated and too many expensive systems that can fail.

I bought my 2005 3.0i two years ago with about 42k miles on it. At the time I could go either v8 or I6, no preference really (actually more inclined to go V8 route due to better power). I called around and asked a few local BMW independent repair shops about their view on reliability and maintenance of V8 vs. I6, and asked if they accepted any third party warranties, etc.

Basically every one of them (all legitimate experienced businesses advertising their shops on local Craigslist and such) told me that with an 3.0, I would not need to worry about a warranty, but that I shouldn't get a V8 without such warranty. All of them, (I called about 4 different shops), said that in their experience, V8 was more of a risk than 3.0.

I went with the 3.0 and have been pretty happy with the decision so far. (No warranty, good reliable performance.)

I did test drive a 2007 4.8i (new style V8) a few months ago as I was considering an upgrade to the new body style. I then test drove the new body 3.0i as well. Frankly, after test driving them both back to back, with warranty, I would still get the 3.0i. The acceleration was better in 4.8i from stop, but at freeway speeds, passing acceleration was very similar in my opinion. Now, obviously, 4.8 has more power than 3.0, so I am not denying that. What I am saying is that 3.0 has to work a bit harder to achieve the same acceleration, but it seemed VERY WILLING to do just that. Take into account the number of times I will realistically have a need to push it that hard, and even the cost difference between 3.0 and 4.8 could not be justified (for me and my driving purposes.)

I have had multiple trips to LA from San Jose area, with full trunk and 4 passengers in the car (including me), and even going up the mountains close to LA I saw no problem with accelerating/passing uphill. Again, the engine is working harder if you choose to push it, but given the number of cops on the roads/etc., under generally normal driving conditions, the 3.0 was not lacking by any means. Although if I were towing any heavy boats, I think wouldn't have been happy.

If I were to buy an X5 today and keep it only for 4 years under initial free maint./warranty period, I would go for a V8. Who doesn't like to have more power? However, even if I wanted to go the new car route, I would need to keep such vehicle for at least 10 years to justify its cost, and that alone would make me want to get the smaller 3.0 non-turbo engine (but that option is no longer offered anyway, so diesel would be my preference over V8.)

I really think you will be happy either way. V8 *may* give you more headaches, but will also give you better performance. Test drive them back to back, a few times, and decide for yourself and your driving needs which one fits your needs better.

Hey,come on,there's always a better one for sure,let's get a jet powered X :rofl:

Nice write up. But having owned and E46, X5, and an M5, I disagree. The power difference is very noticeable. 95hp is a big disparity, especially when pushing around 5k lbs. A lot depends on driving style and where one drives. For me, I don't want to be merging and wonder if I have enough power to safely get in. Reliability falls in favor of the I6 but overall driving experience goes to the V8 which is why I bought the X. Either choice is a good one. One just needs to throughly check the vehicle before purchasing.

The OP will probably like the V8 'better'...but, in my 9 1/2 yrs with our measly 3.0 IL 6, I have never said, "Holy crap we almost got run over/hit/needed more power/coulda' used a V8", etc. It is a 5spd manual, so grabbing a gear makes for right now acceleration; maybe not so with an automatic.

It is not really fast/quick like my Vette or m'cycles, but I have never felt that the E53 3.0 was underpowered. Maybe different in the heavier E70...Otoh, everyone that has a V8 X likes that too.
GL, mD

Pics on your XPage are absolutely beautiful!!

OT...
Thank you for the kind words...GL on your car selection hunt!
BR, mD