Bad Torque Converter Seal
 

Well today as I pulled out of the garage I noticed a small puddle of greenish fluid that had the consistency of oil on the garage floor under the right side of the X just below the tranny/torque converter. So I put it up on ramps to inspect the source of fluid to find that it is coming from the seal between the torque converter and the transmission. I am assuming that the fluid on the floor is transmission fluid. I have searched this board and found that 2 other folks had this issue. Both had the problem at about 60,000 miles and BMW warranted the cost even though both vehicles were technically out of warranty. My X has 50,100 miles.

Can anyone provide info as to whether this is a common problem and if BMW is assuming fault for this one across the board? Both guys on this board who had this issue stated that the dealer quoted them $1300 to fix the issue before BMW was called in and decided to warrant it. I just want to get all my facts together before I bring it in next week. I don't think this kind of problem should be happening on any 3 year old vehicle with 50,000 miles regardless of make or price much less than on a $60,000 model.

I have posted a couple of pics of where the trouble is coming from. The pics are not really clear but you can see what I am talking about on the close up. You can see some green residue between the transmission and torque converter housings. I would love to chat with anyone who has any specific info on this issue such as a TSB or inside BMW info.

Thanks for listening to my ranting.

Mark

From what I can tell in the pics, that is what dried coolant looks like. Most probably the "Valley Pan" leaking coolant.

Rob_

Rob,

What color is the transmission oil? What I found on the garage floor was certainly not coolant. This stuff was greenish blue in color and was thick and oily. Definitely felt like oil on the fingers.

Mark

That is definatly coolant. Transmission fluid should be red. I don't understand how you're know whether it's the tq converter or the transmission as the tq is in the bell housing. You can't see the tq converter when the transmission is attached to the engine.

If I'm not mistaken, transmission fluid should be red :)

Mark,

If it was tranny fluid, it would be a dark brownish red color with the miles that you have. BMW coolant "is" a blue color. Greenish blue if it has had both green and blue coolant used.

Rob_

Well it certainly was not red in any way. Definitely greenish and oily. Can coolant be oily? Rob, what is the "valley pan" coolant leak you spoke of? Everyone else, thanks for your comments. I appreciate the input.

Mark

Mark,

Coolant does have an oily feel to it. The valley pan is a cover on the top of the block (underneath the intake manifold). The only other possibility would be a leaking heater hose.

Rob_

If it's green and is oily at the same time, some kind of oil and coolant are mixing. If what you are saying is indeed true, I'd guess that either the transmission oil cooler or the engine oil cooler are on their way out. Does anyone know where those two parts are mounted?

If my understanding of water cooled engine mechanics is correct would it not take a cracked engine block to physically mix engine oil and coolant together?

A cracked block is very very rare. Most of the time you have oil and coolant mix, a cracked cylinder head is the cause...mainly due to an extreme overheat. ie. temp guage goes into the red and the person continues to drive for miles. :tsk:

Rob_

Just when I started to feel bad about wanting to dump the X5, yet another potential issue that scares me strait.

Scared of what?

Yep, if you had a cracked head, you'd definately know it. If it was a slight headgasket leak, coolant wouldn't leak out like it is here, it's leak into the cylinders and it's get burnt; you'd see white smoke.

Out of warranty big bill repairs like that....
 

Sounds like a $1500 to $2K repair...if you have a CPO then your set...if not...ouch...I have had a slew of repairs recently and was trying to move my X5....then I started to think...well maybe this it..ya know...there won't be any more..then seeing stuff like that makes me think otherwise.

Update. After 2 days not another drop of anything has leaked. After reading all of your posts It seems that what I saw on the floor was coolant. Checked the coolant level and it does seem to be a little lower then when I last saw it (2 months ago). The fluid I found on my floor might have filled a 50 cent piece in size. My temps are fine, the X runs fine, no warning indicators of any kind are noted. I know for sure its not a cracked block or cyllinder. It seems that there is simply a small intermittent coolant leak coming from somewhere above the tranny bell housing. I followed the cooling hoses from the coolant tank to where they enter the firewall. There is a siver colored hose coupling in the firewall where the inflow and outflow hoses go to. I suspected that my leak may be there. After careful inspection that area is dry as a bone with no residue at all. Any other ideas where an intermittent coolant leak can come from or how a coolant leak could be intermittent at all?

Mark

Mark,

It sure sounds like its the valley pan. If you can, take off the top beauty cover and look under the back of the intake manifold. You may need a mirror.

Rob_

I'm one of those 2 out of warranty individuals which has had the torque converter radial seal replaced and warranted. For what it's worth, the synthetic transmission fluid BMW uses is NOT dyed red; its a straw color (a little lighter than Dial Gold soap), and the used transmission fluid will have a slightly grayish appearance (I have samples of both).

Additionally, the ethylene glycol base of any coolant has a slightly sweet taste to it. 2 and 4 legged critters will readily drink it with deleterious effect so most antifreeze has a "denaturing" chemical added to it to cause one's stomach to reject it. If you want to confirm whether a leak is antifreeze just touch a bit of it to your tongue to see if it has a slightly sweet taste, THEN SPIT IT OUT!

Certainly you shouldn't drink it, but a drop won't hurt you. :)

Dont drink it! (Like saying dont eat the apples from the tree) :D The pics clearly show to be a coolant leak.

Rob_

Well it leaked again last night. What came out this time is the same stuff as last time except definitely more blue. I siphoned off a little coolant out of the reservoir to compare. The stuff on the floor is NOT coolant. The coolant is certainly greener and more watery. This stuff is more blue and it is for sure some kind of oil. Front transfer case? Differential? Who knows. I cant see far up enough to determine its source. What is happening is that it is dripping at a constant rate, just very slowly onto the top of that stainless pan below the bell housing. When the fluid puddles up it flows over the side and drips on the floor drop by drop. More so on the right sid of the plate than on the left. I would say that so far no more than a shot glass worth of fluid has escaped. I have an appointment on Thursday at the dealer. I will let everyone know what they find.

Mark

Mark, Im looking forward to the answer of this one :D

Rob_

We should change the title of this thread to "Bad Valley Pan Gasket". Was just advised by the dealer that the fluid on the floor was coolant indeed as a lot of you suggested. The source of the coolant was a bad valley pan seal up toward the top of the motor. Great call Rob!! :thumbup:

I am at 50,190 miles and still have 4 months until I reach the 4 year anniversary on the inservice date. BMW agreed to do the work under warranty. The SA at my dealer also provided some nice intel. He said that BMW has this unwritten policy that if you experience an unusual major problem or known issue with your BMW and you are just out of the warranty period but not by much, they will do a one time freebie warranty service for you. He did not specify what "not by much" was. He did tell me they would warrany the repair before they even knew what the problem actually was.

I guess the kind of service you receive is really dependent on the dealership you choose. I have seen some bad mouthing of BMW service on this board, but in my experience the service I have received has always been top of the range. I can't say enough good things about the guys in service at Crown BMW in Tulsa. One thing I can say for sure is that my next Beemer will be bought and serviced at Crown.

Mark

:) :) :) :)