Removing Auto trans from 4.4, couple of questions
 

I realized I was hi-jacking a thread of Civdiv99, so here ghoes in a separate thread.

Ok, the exhaust and heat shields are off. The sway is disconnected but I can't slide it out, what am I missing, anyone done this?

Second problem, there is an electrical plug just in front of the AT oil pan and I don't see how I can disconnect it? Please give me hint or a pic how it parts.

Third, I took the bolts out of the front flex disk. Yet I can't get the drive shaft out, what keeps it in place, or can it only come out when the TC is removed?

Last question, I presume the oil lines have to be disconnected completed both at the cooler and the AT?

try this for a start

BMW TIS - 31 35 000 Removing and installing/replacing front stabilizer (M62)

there is a write up or post on a thread somewhere with more detail .

X5Girl has a write up on replacing sway bar bushes which will help . says to lower a subframe mount , not too sure myself . the TIS seems to suggest moving left spring strut slightly to make space , I would try that .

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...on-rework.html


try this for transmission connector
BMW TIS - 24 35 503 Replacing wiring harness in automatic transmission (A5S 440Z)

instructions are not clear on front shaft . only show rear shaft
BMW TIS - 27 10 010 Removing and installing transfer case (automatic transmission)

this shows the transmission removal . there is more to it if you click back to the TIS home page , find your X5 and see all instructions .
BMW TIS - 24 00 021 Removing and installing automatic transmission (A5S 440Z)

Thanks a lot, I'll bookmark this site, seems quite useful.

Hi, leave the sway bar in the the vehicle and work around it, the elec plug "rotates" to dissconnect, leave the TC on the trans and the front shaft will come back and down with the whole thing, yes unclip the cooler lines from the rad/cooler (be sure to mark which one goes where and flush the cooler and lines) also mark or spray paint the 4- O2 sensor connectors because 3 of them have the same plug and same wire colors, make sure you use the correct fluids , study the shifter cable jam bolt , its easy to damage, the inverted torx bolt heads are soft , dont round them off , its easy to take off the firewall bulkhead by the wipers , then you can get at some of the bellhousing bolts, be sure the starter is straight when you put it in or it will break and last thing is when the trans is out look at the back of the motor for coolant drips or crusty dried antifreeze around the U shaped cover plus the crossover pipe with hoses attached.
Dave

Dave - this is great help. Rr drive shaft is off and I am draining the fluid. I am making headway. One more question, how do the quick connects at the cooler come off? Do I pull or push the plastic ring? The whole thing looks a bit fragile and I don't want to break anything up there.

It looks like pushing the line in and then pulling the ring out of the fitting to undo?

Push hose towards cooler then push plastic clip towards hose then pull hose away from cooler while pushing on clip, the clip stays with the hose , it does not stay on the cooler. The pipes have a bracket , undo this and leave the pipes in the vehicle , just tie them out of your way. Dont take the cooler off the rad if possible , if you do you will need to drain the rad.
Dave

Thanks _ those things are tough to take off!

In the end I had to cut one hose as the plastic ring was damaged and would not unlock the quick connect. I hated this part, oil gets all over the place....and I guess now I have to peel the cooler off the rad to do surgery on the remaining quick connect? How is it attached?

So now, with lots of stops and starts, I now have the top bolts out (thx for the hint that they can be accessed from above) and the ones with the nuts are out as well. The others are backed out just enough to come out by hand. I took all the wiring off after taking a picture of how it is attached. I took the fan and shroud off so I can turn the crankshaft from the front as it is time to take the Torq Conv bolts out. One is out but then I got alerted that my son had fished up a computer virus...aaargh.

Virus eliminated and now I think I am ready to get a motorcycle jack, undo the rear brace and and start wiggling it out. Do I need to support the engine while removing the AT? How far does the assembly have to tilt back to allow the trans to separate from the engine?

If you had cut one hose in the middle you can use a 3/8 barbed connector and hose clamps to repair it (its low pressure), the cooler is easy to remove, you will see a single u clip (like the rad hoses have) lift that upwards and the cooler will come away from the rad. The fan and shroud can stay on but its good have them off, dont rotate the engine counter clock wise because it puts slack in the timing chain and then you may have noises after, the converter can fit to the ring gear in any position as its not balanced together but a shot of spray paint in one hole is a good idea,put two wratchet straps around the transmission and motorcycle jack , there is no need to support the engine although Mitchell and Alldata ect say you have to, the motor balances perfectly on the two mounts, use a bottle jack at the front and tip the motor an inch or so , keep the trans jack at that same level, (when the bellhousing gap opens , keep that gap the same all the way around, dont bend the flex plate, move the trans rearward enough to clear the sway bar then let it down , the vehicle will have to be jacked up very high in order to roll trans out ,there is a crank sensor on the lower right , take it out of the trans first . Did you mark the oxygen sensor connectors ? did you drain the trans ? by the way what is wrong with the trans ?

The car is from '03 and putting new hoses is likely to be normal at 95k anyway, they don't seem to have been replaced yet. The trans is making a grinding noise and shifts clunky when coming to a stop and pulling away (but no codes) and last issue to crop up, it was slipping rather badly going uphill. I followed your instructions, drained the AT before removing the oil lines and everything is marked. I suspect the failure mode is like civdiv and PhilRR describe.

Thanks for clarifying the removal proces! I am wondering if an m/c jack is even going to help me much, I might build a little skid out of 2x4s that I can hold on two floor jacks, not sure yet.

Once I can see the innards of the AT I will probably order parts and while I wait for them it is time for the V-pan gasket....it has a slow leak and will be a good time to tackle anything on the back of the block. Also waiting is the fuel filter and I need to do the rear upper control arms as it is deveolping too much camber. Needless to say I don't expect it to be in the street for a couple of weeks yet.

Wife is driving the Tundra for the moment (at least one vehicle that appears to be bomb-proof :-).

Not a record
 

It is out, I know, I didn't set a record! But I took it slowly and spent a little time figuring out how to lower it without man-handling it.

I built a frame from 2x4 lumber. L=36 and W=24. The support is centered 11 1/4" from the front. This way I could keep the TC and the AT together and used the rear brace to support the box. Used a strap to keep it all together. By chance it balanced pretty well and was no problem using a single floor jack.

I left one bolt with an inch play and separated the box, then took the last bolt out and lowered it slowly.

Have fun and good luck with that casket.

hi just read this post and just makes me wonder...i recently had my tranny replaced by dealer due to ingoing issues ie. rough downshifts and bucking issues..repair was done under cpo...after reviewing the tranny replacement procedure i highly dought that the tranny was replaced as the procedure shows..i will almost bet the farm that it wasnt done that way...so far though the x runs fine..no leaks and tranny shifts much smoother...i wish i could bring it somewhere to see if it was done correctly...this dealership leaves something to be desired because they failed to fasten the rear bumper splash guard and did a crap job fastening the O2 sensor wire that is strung across the center cross support.i had to bring it back for those fixes..if they did that i can jusrt imagine how they changed the tranny...keeping my fingers crossed...let me know what you think..2005 4.4 with 30k miles.....thanks rob

TriX5, Thanks so much for taking the time to document your courageous excursion into the unknown. I'm sorry I can offer nothing but moral support! I will be anxiously anticipating your updates on trans disassembly and discovery of mechanical gremlins! Can't wait!

JohnI - thanks for the words of support!

I am waiting for the repair manual to fall on the mat before opening the AT and I hope it gets here tomorrow. Although I am sure I could take it apart I'd rather minimize the "oops-factor". At any rate I have to disassemble the intake manifold to get at the V-pan gasket. So, no shortage of stuff to do.

Also, I am expected to complete a swingset for the kids tomorrow....

Good job on the R&R , I like the jack too but you went and used the swingset lumber diddnt you ? I would suggest you find a used trans , it will make things alot simpler .
Dave

Dang, how did you know about the lumber? :-)

Not sure about buying a used AT if they can apparently fail at any mileage... a reman maybe.

Anyway, got the manual today, I might go and have a look inside the AT on Monday.

Lots of spare parts
 

After talking to a very helpful gent at Eriksson in CT I decided my Torq Conv is toast.

I took off the pan from the transmission and it was very messy in there with a lot of shavings on the magnets and in the filter. There seemed to be some sludge in one of the paths under the valve unit as well.

The clutch packs are all in good shape and the bearings look fine. I ordered the overhaul kit and the clutch kit as well as the valve kit. So once it goes back in the car I hope it'll be good for another 100k. But I will be freshening the fluid every 30k and the filter at 50 or 60k.

Getting a new Tq Cnv from Jennings in Essex tomorrow. I intend to get the box back together before removing the intake manifold. Got too many parts lying around the garage already......

It is a bit of an awkward job to disassemble it but probably easier than removing it from the car!

Looking Good! More on TqCnv?
 

Hi, TriX5,

Alright, we're getting inside. Great! Have a couple of questions:

1. Can you describe your conversation with TqCnv expert that led to your concluding it would be necessary to replace?

2. The trans failure symptoms that prompted you to undertake this mission sounded a lot like clutch pack A failure. Are you saying that clutch pack A was fine (not burned) and that the likely problem was TqCnv?

Regards and best wishes for a successful outcome!

Two things stand out, the AT pan was full of metal shavings this time, a lot more on the magnets than normal and flakes that are non-magnetic as well. The other thing he explained to me is as follows. Get as much of the oil out of the TQCV as possible. Hold it horizontally and look into the business end. Shake it latterally, if a shim appears the TQCV is toast. Not to mention that now that it is drained, I can feel that something is loose inside. Apparently there is a needle bearing in there that fails and takes the rest with it. Mine was making a bad grinding/howling noise that temporarily disappeared after changed the oil.

The slippage must have been from the TQCV and not the AT, the AT innards look perfect but I took it apart to make sure that no shavings are lodged in the clutch packs or in the planetary gears. Also there seemed to be some sludge under the valve body but hard to tell as there is so much oil when you take it off.

And anyway, now that it is out of the car I want to replace the "A/B" radial bearing and freshen the seals and o-rings, etc. No point waiting for the AT to develop a problem (8 yrs old now) and then going through the removal again as I find it not much fun to be horizontal under the car and wrenching it.

Thanks, and A-clutch Drum Question
 

Great explanation! That was very helpful in understanding symptoms and diagnosis of TqCnv.

Have another comment: Can't really tell from your otherwise excellent pic of all the parts, but looks like A-clutch drum might be early design without the reinforcing swedges that RRPhil talks about in his post to civdiv99 thread. If yours is early design what do you think about replacing with A-drum of new design?

Drum has held up for 95k miles,so I am not that keen on swapping it but I will take a close look when I work on it.

Six or eight weeks have gone by since I visited this thread. Sorry I'm behind the curve on your project, or I would have weighed in sooner. On mine, I only disconnected the oil cooler lines from the trans and then zip-tied them out of the way (I've replaced the stock trans cooler with a B&M supercooler of greater capacity and mounted to the front of the rad behind the elect fan. Very clean fit and install, but that's another topic).

The sway bar comes out through wheel well after you remove the wheel from the side you are sliding it out. Transfer case is pretty light - I removed it first which makes it real easy to sight up along the top of the transmission case when working with bell housing bolts. (yer head will fit up where the transfer case was). Front drive shaft where it bolts to the front diff is a "sandwhich" of parts. Over time, that is not evident. Once you find the joints of the sandwich (tap the area to dislodge corrosion or free up the parts), then you can slide the shaft back into the transfer case and separate that sandwich after which the shaft will come forward far enough.

You've already figured out that taking the tranny itself apart is not a big deal - but maybe I missed it - do you have the ZF manual?

Also, make sure you retrieve the rubber grommets within the case where the oil lines connect to the D and E clutch (brake) pack, unless you already have a complete rebuild kit on hand. The grommets WILL tear when you pull the lower tower shaft and assy out of the case, and you will be stuck until you can replace those grommets. I also suggest loosening the screws holding the rear transmission to transfer case adapter (Torx 40) before you start pulling internal parts. Much easier to break them loose when you are dealing with the whole unit. Since everything else come out the "front end", I'd suggest strapping the case to something solid so it doesn't want to tip over while you are pulling the towers. The 2nd tower you pull is rather heavy for the amount of shaft you have to hold onto, and you greatly risk a smooth oily shaft slipping out of your hand while partway out of the case (it's a snug fit w/housing). I secured the case vertically, and removed that tower using an engine crane w/rubber clamp onto the shaft. Allows you to move slowly and carefully and not have to manually hold and maneuver and support and so forth as you pull the assy.

Civdiv99

TriX5,

Great work so far! As you mentioned that there was a lot of metallic debris floating around your transmission I wondered if you were intending to strip the valve block to check & clean it?

Both pressure reducing valve circuits, for example, have a mesh filter fitted ahead of the solenoid valves to protect them from debris, which may have become partially blocked?

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i.../PRVfilter.jpg

The valve block is easy to strip and rebuild. There will be a new gasket included in the overhaul kit and the only tool required is a Torx T27 driver which you must already possess to have got this far.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ValveBlock.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ValveBlock.jpg

Phil

Aaaah, thanks for those pictures Phill! Yes, I ordered the kit for the valve body. I think it is worth having a look for shavings in there and as a preventive maintenance item.

Also, given that I drained everything by now, AT, TQCV and cooler, once the whole thing is back on the car, do I simply fill through the fill hole and keep going with engine running once at level? Or do I pour fluid into the TQCV before I fit it on the AT?

For those US based, I don't have a washing station. Two questions, where can I buy one reasonably priced and what liquid to use that does not interfere with the AT fluid once reassembled?

Finally, I was wondering if I should keep the oil lines to the cooler and cut off the rubber parts with the fiitings and then reassemble with new hoses and a couple of hose clamps? The rubber would be on smooth pipe and might slip off? How much pressure comes on there anyway?

CivDiv, the grommets are in the overhaul kit, I had to shear one of them as I could not remove it.

Everybody, thanks for the interest, help and support! :-)

I’ve attached a few more photos showing the valve block internals, in case it’s of any help.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ValveBlock.jpg
Lower Rear Block


http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ValveBlock.jpg
Lower Front Block


http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i.../DuctPlate.jpg
Duct Plate & Orifice Plate


http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...lveBlock-1.jpg
Upper Rear Block


Regarding pre-filling the torque converter with fluid I must admit that I don’t bother. The 5HP24’s pump shifts around 15 litres/minute at tickover so it will only take a few seconds to fill the converter.

For the rubber jump tubes that seal the C & D clutch feeds between the maincase and the shared clutch drum, I have made a special tool that enables them to be pulled out whole (not unlike a cork from a wine bottle) making removal of the clutch drum a simple affair. If anyone needs details of the tool, just shout.

Phil

Great photos.

Nice Photos
 

RRPhil,

Ditto great pics. And, yes, can you share your corkscrew design? Thanks...

Oh dear, I fear I’ve really oversold my jump tube removal tool and you’re now expecting some ingenious corkscrew-type device! I’m sorry to disappoint but this is all it is :

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...TubePuller.jpg

..... well used & a bit bent after years of faithful service.


You can see that the head just fits through the central hole in the jump tube :

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ubePuller1.jpg

and then it’s pulled to one side to get between the spotface on the clutch drum that it seals against and the underside of the rubber tube – then pull!

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ubePuller2.jpg

The ‘official’ ZF tool - as shown in the repair manual - will, I suspect, look very similar :

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...pairManual.jpg

New tubes are included in the overhaul kit so it doesn’t matter if they get damaged during the removal process.

Phil

Wow, great pictures. Looks slightly daunting but doing it this weekend with plenty of time and daylight should be helpful.

I need to drop my TqCv in Baltimore tomorrow and order the new one. The rest of the day is filled with driving the desk again. Hope I find time on Saturday to work on the AT and I might manage to take Tuesday off but there always seems to be something happening that needs me to be at the office.

These last few evenings been busy prepping the motor to swap the valley pan gasket. I am down to the intake manifold and maybe tomorrow evening I'll be getting the rear coolant manifold and the pan off. I guess I'll get the gaskets from the dealer rather than waiting for shipment. (Looking for some advise on what else to replace back there while I have access in a separate thread). There is no oil in the spark plug holes so I can at least skip that operation for the moment.

Finally back to this after a busy week driving my desk.
 

RRPhil,

After a busy week I finally got some time to work on this project again. I have the reman torque converter sitting in the garage and now it is time to put in the new parts and put the AT back together.

I took the valve block apart and luckily there were only a few minor flakes in the screen, nothing like in your picture, much smaller and apparently not related to the torque converter throwing up.

I have yet to start replacing the valve springs but I have been trying to locate all the parts I disassembled thus far. Everything kind of gets messed up by the oil when it comes apart.

How about the check valve in your last picture (pos 55.220 and 55.240). There is no image in the kit for that but it shows in your first shot. I interpret that to mean it needs to be inserted like I show in my first picture with the spring sticking out? EDIT: No. Now that I look closer at your picture it seems to go the other way, in my picture the spring ought to be down?

Also, pos 27.094, the two equal check valves, I think one goes in facing up through the plate and the other down like I have them in the second picture?

I can't get the damper out (27.044) where do I apply air to pop it out? And, finally, does the little ball check valve simply drop in the slot as per the image in the kit? No springs or anything?

Also, how do you re-assemble it without all the bits flying all over the place? What is the correct order? I was surprised by the block coming off at the same time as the bottom one and it seems fiddly to get it all back together without anything shifting or being lost.....

TriX5,

Yes you have the 55.220/55.240 check valve upside down in your photograph. The flat on the plastic part seals against the underside of the orifice plate & its function is to act as an anti-drainback valve for the B-clutch

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...5522055240.jpg


The two identical check valves (27.074/27.094) are positioned correctly as shown on your photograph.


To remove the damper (27.044) there’s a hole on the underside of the duct plate that you can poke a wire through to push it out

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...2008/27044.jpg

Yes, the ball flip-flop valve (27.086) for the F-brake just sits in its trough. There are no springs or anything.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...2008/27086.jpg

Regarding re-assembly, the three valve blocks and the duct plate are all separate self-contained sub-assemblies that bolt together onto the duct plate so there shouldn’t be any loose parts to worry about (with the possible exception of the 55.220/55.240 anti-drainback valve in the upper block which you need to keep an eye on – though it should be held in place by the block's orifice plate - and the manual shift valve in the lower front block – just make sure you engage the protuberance into its guide slot on the duct plate before bolting down).

Are you okay with the positions of the eight coloured orifice discs that sit in the duct plate? It’s important that they all go in their correct places – the colour signifies the orifice size (brown = 1.0mm, blue = 1.4mm, black = 1.5mm, etc.)

A tip I would give you is not to fully tighten the seven (4 + 3) screws which hold the gasket and large orifice plate to the duct plate until the lower front block is sat in place. The dowel pin in the lower front block positions everything so you need to have the dowel engaged in its hole in the duct plate before you tighten up the seven screws.

Phil

Great! Thx, last night it befuddled me a bit with all the oil shedding out when it is opened up.

Will get back to it later this afternoon.

Thx again!

Well that didn't happen but hope for tomorrow. The orifices are shown on the schemaic that came with the kit, so I hope it is correct.

Phil, the pictures of the valve blocks with the springs lined up next to them were tremendously helpful to have as the instructions are a bit confusing given that there are extra parts depending on which number your assembly is, I have a 350. I replaced all the springs and hope to put the block and the main plate back together in the morning. Thanks again!

TriX5,

Glad the pictures helped.

The valve block spring kit for the 5HP24 isn’t readily available in the UK so I end up having to simply measure the free length of each of the 29 springs and check that they’re within tolerance whenever I carry out a rebuild.

I’m therefore very interested in what you’re describing as a ‘350’ assembly, etc. When you eventually get time might it be possible to scan the instructions that came with the kit & post them up on here?

Phil

No prob, I scanned the instruction sheet before I started. PM me your email address and I'll send you the files.

I installed the 4+1 O-rings on the actuators but I have one O-ring that I can't figure out where it belongs. (POS 51 260/012)
51 is all lower rear block but this one has me stumped. Any idea?

The early 5HP24 transmissions used a different ‘main pressure’ proportional solenoid (51.260) so I’m aware that there are two different O-rings i.e. 51.260/10 and 51.260/20, depending on which solenoid is fitted. I’ve never heard of a 51.260/012 though – is it coloured green? The overhaul kit we buy over here just has the one ‘green’ O-ring (51.260/020) in it, but maybe the American kit has both so one is spare?

Thanks for the kind offer to e-mail to me the instructions. I’ll send you a PM.

Phil

correct, it has the green one as well and the one that came out was green so I replaced like-for-like.

The valve body is back together
 

Here is a picture of the orifices with the gasket on. Hope I got them right. The valve body is back together, it is quite straight forward to put together as Phil said. The plate keeps things together and the top block you can eyeball it in to place underneath while putting the lower rear block on top.

And I did the housing and the pump today. Tomorrow hope to have a few more steps complete, the missus is getting restive about driving the Tundra....

Yep, those are 100% correct.

The purpose of the majority of those orifice discs is to ensure controlled pressure/torque build-up in the A & C clutches when either 'D' or 'R' is selected for smooth engagement, so they need to all be in their right locations.

Phil

Ok, I am ready to torq up the valve body I guess.

Question, do I have to remove the output shaft to replace the rear oil seal?

I just found that I ignored one instruction in putting the oil pump together. The teeth apparently have to engage just so... Luckily I had not torqed it yet.

Regarding the lip seal on the output shaft, I believe that the ‘029’ model of the 5HP24 (fitted in the E53) has a separate splined shaft to extend the rear epicyclic carrier output shaft to the transfer box, doesn’t it? On the Range Rover (with which I’m much more familiar) this extension shaft isn’t used and instead the carrier assembly is a different part with a longer shaft

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...etCarriers.jpg

This means that the rear lip seal is different for the Range Rover whereas the E53 transmission uses the ‘standard’ seal provided in the overhaul kit. Is the extension shaft just held in the rear cover with a circlip or something? I’d be interested to see some photos if you get chance - if it isn’t too late. I guess you should replace the seal while access is relatively easy?

With the oil pump it is important that the indentation in both the internal & external gears faces the same way up.

Phil

Hi Phil,

Yes, I made sure the pump went back together the way it came apart. I just didn't line up the dots like in the manual. So last night I made the small correction.

The manual shows the output shaft with a slotted nut but mine is held in by a circlip. I think it should be easy to remove. I will take a picture.

It is out but the bearing is toast
 

Here is a picture, the bearing had play on it and now after some hammering to get it out it is simply dead.

Sorry, second picture is out of focus, tomorrow I'll get a better one.

Excellent thread TriX5, and a impressive piece of work you are taking on. Nice. Also, thanks for posting to my Sway Bar thread.

A couple questions for you about the AT removal:
- Did you remove the top AT bolts from above behind the topside of the engine at the firewall, or did you remove the transfer case and get at them from under the vehicle?
- What did you decide to do for replacement fluid? This one scares me a bit. It seems to be crucial to have the right fluid for the AT to survive. I thinking of getting the fluid from the dealer, but the cost is CDN$340 for 9 liters.

Thanks again.

Top bolts I did from the top, I wanted to take the AT/TC out in one piece. I have the top side apart for the V-pan replacement anyway.
I got fluid from the dealer at 20% off. Some people found a Mobil1 product I believe that meets the spec.

THis has been a long project coz work and other stuff around the house has been getting in the way but it is not very hard with the right tools. Getting the AT off the car is the hardets part IMO.

Good luck.

Not meaning to swing thread off-course, but I'd be curious if there are any verified failures of this tranny specifically linked to or caused by using a substitute fluid. I have used the Mobile 1 synthetic multi-veh ATF in my X5 since trans rebuild last summer which includes stop and go commute driving, cold winter mornings, and on 2 occasions 80 mph trips for a couple hundred miles at a stretch. Interestingly, this trans model was out and about before this "LT" lifetime fluid was called for, and the trans was not considered lifetime fill. Anyway, looking at one of the $20 something per qt bottles of the BMW called-for stuff, I noticed on the back of the label that it was manufactured by Mobil anyway. Since I have no qualms about using the Mobile product, I'll certainly be continuing its use and will duly inform the group should I think anything is amiss.

Other thing I did was completely bypass the factory trans cooler (blasphemy!, how dare I). A B&M Supercooler #70273 fits behind the front fan assy perfectly (open yer hood and take a look, you'll see the gap behind the front fan on either side). Is not really visible as installed, and the hottest I've been able to get the pan (nothing hi-tech - IR thermometer on the pan) is around 155, and that day I was really trying to heat it up on purpose to see what I could get - full throttle runs up hills, keeping rpm up, etc.

Only reason I did the bypass is - 'cause I just didn't like the stock one, and under there one day with the splash pan off, I was rather surprised at how HOT the little block cooler was under there. I just wish I would have measured and documented the original temp. Curious to know how hot the stock cooler allows the fluid to get.

I don't recall seeing any full failures documented here, but this board is a pretty small sample. I have seen posts here and elsewhere documenting shifting problems when an incorrect fluid was installed, and that was rectified by installing the correct fluid. All anecdotal.

The most common problem with incorrect fluid (from my experience on other transmissions) is the friction characteristics not being correct, thus causing poor shifts. All decent transmission fluids will lubricate, some will last longer than others, but the big difference between different fluid specs is the friction spec as the clutches engage. Manufacturers achieve those specific friction characteristics with friction modifier additives. Those additives are sometimes sold separately, to resolve borderline shifting problems.

Just curious as to when you installed your aftermarket cooler, you thought about the heating circuit. Usually the thermostat has a bypass that uses the heat exchanger to heat up the automatic transmission fluid upon cold start, thus reducing transmission wear. Have you maintained that function? I don't know what the long term effects are of eliminating the heater function, but perhaps you don't experience any cold starts. On other models where BMW adds a second transmission cooler, they maintain the standard cooler just for the heating function, and add a second cooler for additional capacity.

I considered putting the orig cooler back in the circuit. But then coldest morning for a startup and drive after cleaning windows, etc. was 7 below zero (F) with the Mobile fluid and my experimental trans cooler. No issues that I noticed, so I'll stay where it is for now.

The more I read about this problem, the more I think that one failure mode maybe that some cars get the torque converter replaced but the AT goes back on without cleaning up. Then sometime down the road it starts having problems as the metal shavings start circulating through the AT giving trouble with the valve block and pump. (And dealers/shops are being told you should not swap the fluid, then they will be hesitant to flush). Faced with another x-thousand dollar R&R bill, the owner gives up and shoves the car in to the trade where some hapless buyer picks it up unaware it is a timebomb.

The reason I am saying this is that I cleaned out my valve block with solvent in a white container and yesterday I put the used solvent in a bottle for disposal. The crud that remained on the bottom of that container after pouring out the solvent contained a very significant amount of shavings, though not of the size RRPhil's picture shows. Now clearly the majority of this is stuck to the outside of the valve blocks but as you can see from Phil's pictures some of it finds its way in as well.

Once the damage is done all the fllushing in the world is not going to fix it until the AT gets rebuilt, and even then some damage to the valve blocks maybe overlooked or somebody takes a short cut and does not actually rebuild the valve bloock and the AT goes back on still with problems.... Any thoughts on this?

CivDiv did you get the Mobil with the LT spec or did you use the generic? Mobil does not show that spec on their website and I was going to check in the store but would be interesting to know what you put in?

I think you are right that this happens TriX5. I'm sure people get advice to have transmission work done and decide just to unload the car. I know I considered it briefly when mine started to exhibit symptoms.

I think people also try replacing half their ATF and then add in another fluid of different viscosity. This likely isn't very good for a transmission. To replace all the fluid, you have remove the transmission and drain the torque converter. As we know this is no small task.

My particular problem was a very slow oil leak at the bell housing. It was just accumulating underneath the transmission oil pan and there was no fluid hitting my garage floor, so I wasn't too worried about it. Then one day when it was cold, the torque converter didn't want to lock up for about 10 seconds. I was giving more throttle and the engine just revved higher with no acceleration. Then it locked up and I drove home.

I did some reading and figured out this symptom is consistent with a torque converter seal leak and a gradual decline in the ATF level. At some point, the torque converter won't look up consistently if the fluid is too low.

I almost have the transmission out. I plan to inspect the debris in the oil pan and filter plus drain the torque converter. If there is anything more than just the usual shavings around the magnets, I will likely decide to do a full rebuild. For now, I'll cross my fingers ...

Anyway, my point is I must not be the only one with this very slow ATF leak. With no easy way to check the fluid level and no scheduled maintenance of the ATF, most people would be unaware of the issue. And if the symptoms are ignored, eventually the torque converter would self destruct and spew bits of metal into the transmission.

Progress
 

Re-assembled the output section with the new bearing. Then I disassembled the F-clutch but nothing to report. The seal seems to be an integral part of the "piston", no replacemnt for it in the overhaul kit.

I used special tool DWV-001 :-) Using my drill press and a magnet I could get the half rings out.

The F-clutch section is back in the housing, more tomorrow.

I've been using this stuff. Back of the bottle lists compatible types.

I like Mobil 1 products in general. However, that Multi-Vehicle fluid is only certified for Ford/Mercury vehicles (Mercon V), and Allison C4 (medium duty truck). Doesn't meet any other manufacturer approval standards according to the Mobil 1 site. It is also a blend, not a full synthetic, if that is important.

Bell housing is back on!
 

A day well spent, got the C, D, and E clutches together and popped them in to the housing. Then put the V-Pan and rear manifold on the motor.

Once the wife came home she gave me hand with the A and B pistons as the circlips on them are harder to remove and I didn't really have the right mandrels either.

Then torqued up the pump and put the whole deal together!

Looks like rain tomorrow so with a bit of luck I should be able to get the valve block reinstalled and attached the TCase, maybe even get it reattached to the motor.

BTW, I found one O-ring in the E clutch piston was sheared in 2 places. I am fairly certain this happened after the TC went south based on my wife's report of a hick-up while driving it.

She is ready to but put on the motor
 

Yesterday did not get much done but today reassembled the unit and the TC.

Ofcourse the first time I tightened the valve block I forgot to engage the selector, aaargh! When re-read the manual it dawned on me that despite remebering earlier, in the end I forgot. So off it came.....

I put wheels on the skid so now I can just wheel it under and jack it up.

Still have to attach the oil return hoses from the EGR and OSV before the AT goes in.

Oil return hoses are on.

Changed the fuel filter, yuk, what a stupid job. I wonder if it is not easier to drill out the rivets and just take the aluminum shield down.

I am ready to put the AT back on :-)

You are almost done. Congrats, great job!
I am not sure if I will do it when time comes but I am pretty sure you enjoyed the challenge. How much was the cost for all this?

Home for 20 hours! Last night tightened the drive shafts, the rear frame and all the bell housing bolts as well as the attaching the TQ Conv to the flex disk. Put the wiring loom back.

This morning put the water hoses on the rear manifold and put the intake back on. Everything is back on the top of the engine, just need to do the fan clutch.

When I get back need to install the oil lines and the heat shields.

Last hurrah
 

Finally got back from a short but exhausting trip to Canada. So, popped the oil lines on and the exhaust and then finished up the top of the engine.

I managed to bust the drain plug of the radiator but found a temporary fix and after filling the AT with oil I fired it up!! She rattled a bit and coughed as the fuel rail refilled but then settled in to a steady idle :-).

After the engine heated up I leveled the oil in the AT and then put the stab bar and the plate back on.

Finally time for a test drive!! What a great improvement, no more noise and picture pefrect shifting.

Now we'll drive it a few weeks before tackling the chain guides.

Congratulations TriX5! It is very rewarding to finish a job that big.

Ironically enough, I finished putting my transmission back in my X5 last night as well. As you may recall, all I had to do was replace the Torque Converter Seal. It was a long day of connecting driveshafts, heat shields, exhaust, stabilizer bar, bottom plate, firewall in engine bay, and the oil adding and leveling process. I also had to replace an oil separator hose on the top side of the engine that I punctured while getting the top side bell housing bolts, plus reconnect a front driver ball joint I disconnected trying to get the stabilizer bar out. I also swapped out my winter wheels for summer wheels while I had it up on the jack stands.

When I dropped the transmission oil pan, the oil still looked reusable. After 100k miles I replaced it anyway, but there was no burned smell. I replaced it anyway with $350 worth of new BMW fluid. The service manuals are full of warnings about using the wrong fluid, so I decide not to scrimp on that item. I was also relieved to see just regular fine shavings on the magnets. I think/hope I dodged a bullet and the transmission is good to go for another 100k miles.

The transmission is shifting smoother than it had for along while. I suspect it didn't like running 2-3 liters light out of the 8 liter capacity.

TriX5, I also want to thank you for your advice. Indeed, there is no need to remove the stabilizer bar, just have it loose and off its bushings. I just slid the transmission back slightly to clear the bar before lowering the transmission.

I also took your advice and got to the top 4 transmission bell housing bolts from the topside by removing the firewall. This allowed me to leave the transfer case attached to the transmission. I had to tilt the engine and transmission back slightly to get the middle bolts coming from the bottom side.

I spent at least 2 hours getting all 12 bell housing bolts back in. Some of them are a real b**ch.

congrats!!

regarding your PM.. is it #16-17?
RealOEM.com * BMW E53 X5 4.6is CATALYST/LAMBDA PROBE

it goes over #8 :)

TriX5, congratulations! the chain guides it's a piece of cake comparing with this one.

GT3Jeff, congrats to you as well! you guys accomplished a very challenging job.

thanks for sharing the experience.

Congratulations on the successful outcome!
 

Thanks for sharing, TriX. I learned a lot and this will be a great aid for many who follow.

Well done! :thumbup:

Thanks guys! This board is great and I like to return the help by posting as I go. I will post a few more pix in a couple of minutes.

RDM, it is 16.

Here she is, freshly washed
 

Washed it this morning. Somewhere in the middle of this whole saga I swapped the winter wheels for the 132s which are new to me. And absolutely love the way these look on the black car. They have 15 and 30 mm spacers.

Started cleaning up the '01 headlights I bought, these will get AEs and I will remove the waffles. I guess that will be a different thread :-)

Finally thanks to all those who helped and encouraged me during the project. I had seen Swissfrank and Civdiv's thread before the AT ever went bad and decided then that if it happened I would do the surgery myself. I didn't think it would be only a few months after reading them that I got my problems with the AT.

RRPhil's help has been of incredible value! Special thanks to him.

I think between the four threads of Swissfrank, Civdiv, RDM and mine, it is a pretty good guideline to access information that is not in the manual.

Good luck to anyone wanting to try. I am open to questions via PM if you decide you want to go ahead with it.

Best to all

Louis

I don't have to do the transmission yet but I have to top up the oil. The ATF Fluid Top-up Procedure pdf file is not longer available.
Can you post a couple of tips on how to do that. I know you have to bring the temperature up to 40C... but how much you have to add?
thanks

FM,

Here is a good thread.

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...hange-diy.html

In the AT part catalog there is a section on this as well. If you PM me your email address I will send a pdf of the parts cat.

I looked up the Mobile ATF at Autoadvantage
 

On the back of the bottle it says that it does meet the LTxxxxx spec but it does not look like the ZF stuff at all. So, I am not so sure and refilled with the stuff from the dealer on which I caught a good break by chance.

It could be old stock, with a different formulation, I suppose. Does it say that it meets the spec, or that it is suitable for it? Big difference. A good single malt is certified. A cheap whiskey blend is suitable for those who want to buy a whiskey. But they are by no means the same thing.

The Mobil 1 site currently lists six different formulations of ATF, all for different applications. Their Multi-Vehicle formula is a Mercon fluid, that is acceptable back in some older GM models as well (Dexron II), as well as several industrial applications. Interestingly, it is a blend, partly synthetic. Mobil also sell a fully synthetic "equivalent", promoted for all of the same transmissions as the Multi-Vehicle formula, but it is not certified for Mercon V. While it is fully synthetic, it has a lower spec.

Here is the current spec for that fluid. Note that the only certifications are for Mercon V and Allision C4.

Good point, next time I will have a look how they say it on the bottle.

Great post TriX5. I learned enough to make me really dangerous.

Oil filling
 

Checked again and JCL is right. It says: "Also suitable for.....etc". I would not use it in mine.

Here is an easier way to fill your transmission and differentials than pumping it in. I bought this contraption at Advantage but Pepboys also has them. It comes with a foot of hose but HD sells the same size hose in a 10 feet length which I added to mine. They also come with an funnel but I decided to go with this one and attach a water bottle. If you take the white adapter off it fits an oil bottle.

I cut the bottom from the bottle and hung it upside down from the garage door rail. The cap at the bottom makes the spilling less when you take it out and it has a valve at the bottle side as well.

String the hose through the passenger door handle and over the top of the exhaust and use a tie-wrap to attach it to one of the big nuts that holds the heat shields up. Then dumped the fluid in a liter at a time.

hey, TriX5

Im tackleing the same project...I read that to get to the top bolts on the tranny did you remove the inner plastic firewall in the engine bay then have access to the bolts?

Second question, i see the cover for the torque srews after you remove that it says to use a special bmw tool 24..... it a magnetic socket but i was wondering how did you remove the torque or i mean seperated it from the engine i know it uses 3 bolts to made with the flex disc.

third question: do you remember which repair kid did you order? i have 155K and have had one oil change was about to do another when TC went out so i have an excuse to remove tranny but not the time to tear it open and rebuild it or ill see whatever ill figure that out...mainly i was wondering on the kit you ordered i saw a lot of kits ie master kit etc with clutches etc plust there the valve body kit too.....


TIA
arthur

Yes, best to remove that piece and get the top bolts out that way. They are different from the others in size.

To disconnect the TC from the flex plate I used a regular socket but has to thin wall. Impact sockets probably would not fit. 17mm IIRC.

You need the manual, otherwise it is a bit confusing. I got the over haul kit, the clutch disks and the valve body kit. I also installed a new bearing in the output section, runs much quieter now. Check your radial bearings and at least change the A/B clutch bearing.

Once you have the AT out, you absolutely should do the overhaul. The o-rings get very brittle and once one of them breaks you get slippage on the clutches.

Good luck!

Yeap looks like my bearing also failed like you said. I looked into the hole and i saw the movment of on of the peices. I didnt see any debris in the oil. Ill pull the pan off of it tonight and see the filter. I am going to assume if i dont find anything just small fragments. Then i should just like you said get the overhaul kit and clutch disks (if nothing wrong should i change?) Ill definitly do the valve body kit. oh also do yo have to replace the oil pan bots?

Curious where did you buy your kits from? Im on the cobra transmision site and they have a number of kits available...

www.erikssonindustries.com


The guys from Eriksson were very helpful for sourcing the kits but could not help me with the Tq Conv. I think best way is to have it remanned by Transtar or some other reputable shop.

Transtar Industries, Inc. - Torque Converters

Transtar also sells the fluid you need to refill.

There are some other threads by RDM08 and CivDiv that should help you do this.

I did not change the bolts of the pan but they are very soft so maybe get a handful of spares?

I would change the clutch disks at any rate. They do the hard work and once you are in there it is easy to exchange them for a new set.

Make sure that you give the bolts holding the F-clutch to the back of the housing a tap on the head before trying to undo them. See RDM08's thread.

Hmmm thanks TriX5,

My only issues is I have the 5L40E GM tranny and i can not find any one selling any valve kit...Just the clutch pack etc which is all great but i read that this tranny as ive read in many posts on here the reverse eventually fails and some pple are stuck with no reverse. The problem is not the gear but a failed part in the valve body. But so far i cant find parts for valve overhaul yet. if anyone has worked on the gm tranny specifically the valve body please chyme in?

Right. I forgot you had the six pack with GM trans. I would have thought it be easier to find parts for that if is made by GM?

I posted this over on rangerovers.net, in case it’s of interest?

http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/6-range-rover-l322-mark-iii/34259-gm-5l40-e-transmission-teardown.html

Phil

Sorry - just remembered that I had posted the GM 5L40-E teardown on here (I've just updated my original post).

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...-teardown.html

Phil

OH THATS RIGHT

I totally forgot that you did tear down an 5L40E i dont know why i kept thinking that you did it with a ZF tranny man. Thanks Phil


well I just spend an hour or so reading through both threads and the online things.

So yes I have this same Tranny as the one you teared down. i have 3G UX A5S390R.

I was having slipping issues for less than a week and one day it would engage in any gear but if i let it site for a bit it would and the next day there was no noise or anything...any how the TC is being rebuilt so ill be tearing it open but after reading your post on the issues with reinserting the pistons etc....do you think as a first timer I shoudl get the ezee cone adaptors and use that to help me in rebuilding them.

Ive still been unable to find a rebuilt valve kit so looks like worst case i get a new valve kit that has the sonnex gear installed already.

Next question for you Phil would be should i repalce the clutches if they seem fine or just repack?

Automatic, Standard Transmission and Transfer Case Rebuild Kits, Cobra Transmission Parts 1-800-293-1848 is the location i plan to buy the kits from


hmm looking at that site they list the kits with the A5S360R not A5S390R

any advice?