Would YOU trade your 10 year old european car for a brand new 2011 $15,000 domestic
 

I read an article that dissed on older European cars and point writer was making nobody cares that u drive a 10 year old europen car that used to cost $50,000. And and when u go to the shop even thought the car now is worth 15,000+ shops still charge you if it was 50,000 car and repairs not worth having a car. Also he brought up a point of driving a new cheap domestic car was allot better idea and financial smarter...what is your response to that..mine i was mad one i do all my work myself my 2001 x5 3.0i still handles better then some newer cars that coming of the line, interior is still in nice condition and so on so i didn't agree with him what about you would u trade in your SAV

I think we dont own these cars to be "financially savvy" we own them because we are drivers, and we are passionate car owners. Other cars that are "financially smart" such as a Chevy malibu hybrid, is not a drivers car, its a "get me from point A to point B" type car. To me, its more than just getting there, its how you get there, and how it makes you feel. I swear my 04 X5 gets more looks than brand new other cars. I'm happy with it

I think the next most comparable domestic SUV's are the Jeep Grand Cherokee and the Dodge Dakota. Once you load one down with leather, Xenon's, upgraded stereo, v8, etc. you are pushing $40K. The gas mileage isn't that much better either.

I decided to buy a low mileage X5 with the extended warranty in place. I think the taxes, license, and insurance is more on the new car as well.

As a side note, the 4runners and Honda Pilots are also $35K off of the showroom floor. Sure they are reliable, but you pay the piper one way or the other. I am not sure you can get an AWD midsized SUV for under $30k. That depreciation will pay for a lot of repairs and maintenance.

I'm not saying that the X5 is the most economical car you can get. I'm just saying if you want to drive a SUV the X5 is not that bad of a choice from an economical standpoint if you can get a good deal on a nice used one.

Yup.
 

Drive a 7 year old X5 and it will feel like it has 5,000 miles on it.

Drive a 7 year old Honda and it will feel like it has 85,000 miles on it (actual mileage).

Drive a 7 year old Ford and it you'll feel like the car has 200,000 miles on it.

Couldn't agree more, it is about perspective. The author of the article is not a driver, but a user of modes or transportation in an efficient manner. Whereas an enthusiast appreciates the engineering that went into a fine automobile to make its 3,650th day feel like its first.

Mr. Nazario.....you are absolutely correct .....thanks.

A Ford Fiesta, a Honda Fit Sport or a Mazda 2 could be had around $15,000 and I would make that switch in a heartbeat. Economical 4 cylinder engines plus a manual transmission would make those cars fun to toss around in; they aren't designed with performance in mind, but the X5 doesn't feel like it was designed with performance in mind either. Heck, there's B-Spec racing with those cars and seem like a 4 door and 2 more seats version of the Miata.

youre nuts!

you tell me a car that feels as solid as mine does at almost 100k miles? Have you ever been in one of those cars with more than 50k miles? they rattle, they shake, and they feel like crap

In general, i suppose this thread is meant to point out whether you'd rather have an older BMW or a new domestic "blah" car. So, the real question for you would be, would you rather have a brand new Mazda 2 in manual, or a 5 year old 330i in manual?

:iagree:

The comparison isn't to a 100,000 mile car though, it is to a new one. A new Fiesta or Focus drives pretty well. It is certainly a reasonable alternative to a 100,000 mile X5.

You need to differentiate between non-driver's cars and driver's cars. There are lots of driver's cars that don't have a roundel.

Nyet. It is irrational but that is the point, cars are about emotion otherwise we'd all drive a Camry....

I will keep my 10 year old X5. Every other week I travel and have to rent fords, chevs, subarus, ect and it's all garbage. The ride is simple not there, the feel is not there, and interiors are plastic. The doors feel like recycled pop cans. It just makes me angry driving them because there is no power what so ever. So I just thrash them.

Old BMW for me please, my colleagues at work come in moaning that they had to spend £1000 replacing the turbo on their Diesel Focus, which is just a shell on 4 wheels to them, and it really pisses them off.

I have to spend £1000 on suspension parts in the same week and feel good about because my great car now feels even better.

Remember, that hatchback may be brand new today but in the example given, we are not talking about ballers, we are talking about people like us who will not be selling after 1 yr, we will be keeping for around 4 yrs +. That little fiesta or Mazda 2 will be on around 48000 miles by then - not so much of a nice new car at that point. And it will have depreciated to shit, so you will need to find a huge sum to buy another 15k brand new car. Now a 15k 10 yr old BMW will be worth alot more after that same 4 year period.

Hey, We are all here because we love the SUV with the feeling and smile it gives us, while handling, roaring, redlining. We love luxury and comfort, we even agree to pay extra in mentaining the thing. So not smart to ask us for that opinion :)

IMO, if you have $15000 and want to buy a car you should probably get a new ford fiesta and drive it for 10 years. If you spend the $15000 on a 10 year old X5, you will not be able to afford the inevitable repairs.

However, if you have $35K to spend, I think you are better off financially buying a nice used X5 and use the $20K to keep it nice (especially if you want a SAV).

I may be out of touch, but to me, there aren't any compelling new cars / trucks/SUV's that cost less than $30K. And even a lot of those cars don't have the features of a $15000 X5.

Eugh, I'm picturing a 2001 Fiesta right now, with 100k on the clock, and thinking how glad I am that I did not buy one brand new back then and attempt to own to this day :lol:

I agree........i love our old 03 X5 3.0i.

I did HATE the air suspension........so we got rid of it.

Now its on springs.......rides like a tank, and the sound sys is great......... gets lots of looks too.

Just got to have a GT1, and a bentley manual to look after it.

W

I've been in a Mazda 3 with 103k miles and it drives fine even under the use of immature high school drivers. I've been in a '91 Saturn SL1 with a manual transmission and I'm amazed at how much abuse that car can take when the driver peels out every chance he gets and lugs its engine on big hills when he doesn't pay attention. I've been in a Acura 3.5RL with 90+k and it still drives fine and is still very comfortable.

There are many cars nowadays that are very nice and have the same features of the X5. The one my parents own is very basic with only auto climate control as an option those $15k cars don't have. I might just be going through a phase but I'm just not a fan of the X5 and its little niggles. The engine is beautiful like any BMW engine is and its fit and finish is very nice too. However, there are too many delicate parts to it that makes me want a simpler car with less amenities.

They may be a reasonable alternative until the unthinkable happens. Would you put your child behind the wheel of a Honda Fit or one of these?

http://my02.com/images/330/crunch.jpg

My children are 4 and 1 and so technically, I would be arrested if they were caught behind the wheel of either :nanana:

But yeah, :iagree: fully with what you're saying. My dad calls those little cars (Fiesta's etc) "tin cans". I know safety has moved on in a huge way and all new cars are fairly safe, but the sheer size of those things just scares me as they are so small, that you will never be more than 1 meter away from the point of impact. I feel my kids are safer high up in my X5 than lower down but I could not afford a brand new SUV at this time.

I will be considering off loading the X if it attempts to bankrupt me again within a short period of time. My love affair with the X is nearing an end. I wouldn't buy a bare basic new car I would buy something a little more snazzy. I have been doing the car rounds recently and have found a lot of quality and value where I didn't think I would find it. The Kia Optima has a close to first rate cabin...darn better finish than many new bimmers, lots of lux features and is amazing value. Sure it won't sound or drive as nice as the propeller roundel but I drive on public roads not a racetrack so who cares anyway and I'm not in it for car park glory. I kinda feel self concious about having the fanciest car in the lot sometimes. As far as solidity goes my X has squeaks and rattles galore compared with my old Honda prelude vti-r which had none and it was older than my X. I'm also considering buying dual cab Hilux for work and offroad play as they have bulletproof rep down under. 2 reliable good value cars in my garage is what I'm looking forward to.

No chance in hell. Some great arguments on here for keeping an older BMW over something newer in another brand. I've spent my whole life driving older German cars because I'd rather have that than something soulless and lacking character, nevermind performance and handling. Yes, they may cost more to repair and/or be out of warranty but hey, if you want to play, you gotta pay. Besides the way BMW's are engineered is unlike any other vehicle that I've worked on, they truly are the easiest cars to repair.

Yes, and I have done so.

We put our eldest daughter in a Toyota Echo Hatchback, now called a Yaris. Youngest in a Civic. We focused on driver training with both of them, something that gets missed by many new drivers. That meant manual transmissions, car control, driving on snow and ice, skid control. Yaris is gone, replaced by a new Focus.

Also, both girls drove on four of the best winter tires I could get (Blizzaks, and Michelin Ice) in the sizes they needed. So many parents let their children drive around on all season tires.

The eldest went to skid school as part of her new job. They used Focus sedans for the course, same as her new car (except they used automatics, because so many people these days don't know how to drive a standard transmission).

Since you are showing pictures from the IIHS, you should look at their web site. The Civic, and Focus, are top safety picks. So is the Fiesta, for that matter. As was the Fit, a few years ago. The Echo wasn't, but it had reasonable crash test results at the time. It wasn't sold in the US, so the IIHS didn't rate it. Our sixteen year old asked at the time if she could have my Z4, instead of a used Civic. Do you think that would have been safer, giving a new driver a Z4 3.0si with sports package? No way, IMO.

I know my 2003 X5 had good crash test results when it was built, but that was eight years ago.

Carrying extra weight around doesn't make one safer. It just makes it more likely that the vehicle or pedestrian you hit will suffer more damage. And a more powerful and heavier car has two strikes against it for a new driver, IMO.

JCL you make a good point. The "tin cans" are still top safety picks.

My parents allowed me to get an X5 because:

1. I paid the difference between what they were willing to spend, and what i wanted
2. Going to school in upstate NY really isnt good without AWD. Honestly, I have seen those ford focuses, etc get really stuck--EVEN WITH studded snow tires. I have not gotten in trouble up here with X-Drive and my pirelli snows
3. I do think no matter what, The X5 is still safer than the focus and fit, etc. Put them in an accident with a larger car such as a suburban, and compare the results with how the X5 would do..Size really does matter in this case

However, the X5 was NOT my first car, in fact it was my third, I started out with a '98 infiniti I30T, and then a 94 325i. The BMW had a manual tranny--really taught me how to drive well.

If i had the X5 as my first car, i think the 4.4i liter V8 would have been too much for me.. This was proven when i took my dads e39 M5 out for a ride at 17 yrs old, and got pulled over for doing 85 in a 45.. whoops (no ticket though )

It's very tempting. My X3 is thirsty around town, not very fast, parts are expensive, and lacks the creature comforts and conveniences of newer cars. To illustrate: the F25 xDrive20d has a 4 cylinder diesel that is better in every way than my old M54 6-cylinder 2,5 litre.

But every time I head into the mountains, it's hard to see giving it up. Yes, gradients make it painfully obvious that 184hp doesn't cut it (I'm often extracting every last rpm) but it is so stable, secure, and enjoyable on rural roads and switchbacks. When weather turns foul, the good tires plus typical BMW stability "feel" have me plowing on with confidence. The Bi-xenon headlamps, hard-working GM transmission, and frankly amazing suspension are also plus points. Plus, it fits a mountain bike (barely) and all the kit for a weekend trip.

The small mods I've made also make it hard to give up. European-coded headlights, rear foglights, the aspheric outside mirror, a recently new Business Radio that reads mp3s, upgraded speakers, and snazzy interior design are just some of the things I'd lose if I had to give my X3 up.

So it looks like the X3 is here to stay for at least another year. I've worn out my snow tires and my parents don't have the budget for another set, so I may have to take other cars to the slopes this winter.

I will say this: I'm tempted to get a small pickup. If VW sold their Amarok in the US, I would probably buy one. VW engineering plus just 7,7 l/100km combined (30 US mpg) fuel consumption figures work well for me.

I drove alot of different cars BMW, infinity, VW, Nissan, Chevy, Dodge, Mazda, Toyota.The only car i would ever buy used is BMW i take a pride in Driving a beautiful European car and therefor do preventive maintenance on it, clean my interior and wax it every other week. the car looks like its a brand new even with two kids trashing interior with snacks and spilled juice or milk or walking on leather with their filthy little shoes. For the sake of argument send some pics of exterior and interior of your domestic 100,000 mile car and whoever feels like showing off their European car may do so but must also have 100,000+ miles on it. :thumbup:

Actually, I took that picture from our 2002 delivery of our E46. The tested X5 was a feature in the Zentrum.

But I did take a look at the site. I always enjoy looking at those crash results and seeing how the X5 faired so well. So did the E46, in fact. Except for being all 'G's' in the tested areas, the text of the E46 read very much like the Yaris. The E46 can be found for less than $10K. It seems like a very good bargain for safety and performance mix.

But to compare the Yaris and the X5, it is nice to see such strides in recent years out of the little car makers. Of course, it did not do quite as well as either ten year old BMW, and you want to make sure you get one with side airbags, or you're in a death trap on a side impact- rated 'Poor.'

The civic did well in the offset crash, but looking at the ratings of a Civic and those pictures from the side impact crash results is scary. Even the E46's side impact ratings were not as good as the X5's- which were all green or 'Good.'

I think you've offered excellent advice to parents- The key is driver control and training. My dad started me early with Skip Barber with our Euro Delivery 633Csi and 635Csi. From there, it was all about finding an event to run my '75 2002 around a track. I've had that slow little thing for almost 25 years and haven't needed to test the safety. Bet it would be scary!

when your talking about "domestic" cars are you talking about chev, ford, dodge

or japanese designed cars built in US factories???

because in Australia your typical toyota, honda mazda are extremely well built robust cars that will give many years of trouble free motoring.

however we also have the dubious privilege of having available cars like the dodge neon and caliber, now those ARE pieces of shit, who designed and built that trash.

so if im trading my 10 year old europesan car on a new dodge caliber i would say i,m an idiot.

but if it were for a new japanese built mazda 6, now there is a great looking great handling well built quality car.

but again we import these cars from japan. and i dont know what quality they represent when buitl in the USA

No. Simple.

I sober drove in a Ford Escape in Charleston once and that was more than enough to justify anything. The sad part, is that I consider an escape to be one of the better cars out there.

I get so much more out of my 6 year old 325, and even the 15 year old one I learned to drive on than I ever could an econobox toaster.

Funny you say that. My best friend just got a brand new escape. He really is a driver.... He is so jealous of my 7.5 year old 100k mile X5.. And would trade in a heart beat

I wouldn't trade. The safety of for one. My wife and two children use the X 90+% of the time. The smaller cars may pass crash tests because of the cabin structure is rigid, but with the larger and heavier vehicle, more of the impact is dispersed thoughout the vehicle and not the passenger. ie. the crash test done between an old 90s S class Merc and the new Smart Car. The passenger cell was not crushed after the impact but the people would have surelly died due to the force of the impact transfered to their bodies.
These vehicles age so much better than do a "normal" car. A well kept German (even some Japanese) car will look better and more modern than many/most standard cars after just two years. Germans also keep the same basic body for about 7 or 8 years, so my first run 2003 E class looks almost identical to 2006 and very close to the 2009. When parked next to the new 2011 black cars, mine has more lustre and gloss than those do. I still get asked if it is new. I'm getting close to that look with the X, lots of work and upkeep though. The quality of interior in both my 2003 models are far far far superior to that af any sub $20K NEW car out there. Ride comfort, well, that goes without saying.

Someone mentioned they didn't think the X handles well!! I corner faster with that than I do with the E class and the E class will out corner my company cars (2006 Malibu, 2010 Impala, and 2010 Buick Lacross) by at least 15 mph on a loop coming on or getting off the interstate.

Somethimes I think it would be nice to just get into a Honda or Acura and not think about any maintenance other than oil... but last weekend I did nothing to the cars (they didn't even need a wash) and was bored!!! LOL.

The article the OP was referring to is from Automobile Magazine this month and WAS written by a car guy (Ezra Dyer) and actually had some validity to it. It was more than being just a flame on old european cars, it was based on the reality that there are many options out there and was slanted to those who look at automobiles as just a form of transportation...it was actually rather sarcastically written....another way to look at the same point is owning vs leasing...two good fights there...

Having owned a number of "high end" vehicles, and also quoting many on these boards (especially the E70 board that I'm always on), some of these vehicles are frighteningly expensive to own and maintain out of warranty so for many it is a valid concern. One of the points in the article was that if you're buying a 10-year old 7 series because you want to show off and think "wow a $70k car for $12k" you have another thing coming to you...

As my lease just ended I am actually debating heavily on the lease vs purchase scenario and struggle with the thought of owning something like an X5M 6 years from now...what will it really be worth...what are the lost opportunity costs... would I be in the same bottom line position after 5 years (real world value of car vs. what i have in it) or is it better to rent and walk away....

I've been reading the mag. since it started in the 80's and always read the editorials with a smile as MOST of the time they are a great mix of humor and insight....

flame on!

Crash test results consider both the integrity of the passenger compartment, and the maximum forces applied to the crash test dummies. You need both to be good to survive, or to receive a good score.

There are lots of factors involved in crash statistics, but a couple of comments:

Vehicle weight really only matters in a head on collision with another vehicle. In that case, it helps to be in the larger vehicle because you are more likely to kill the other vehicle occupants than die yourself. Those other bodies are your shock absorber. In a single vehicle accident vehicle weight doesn't matter, there is more mass and thus more kinetic energy to dissipate. If you hit a wall, a SMART car is as good as the S Class. If they hit each other, the S Class is safer, but not as safe as a Kenworth would be, taken to an extreme.

If you want to be really safe, mini vans and four door sedans have better histories than SUVs, simply because SUVs are more likely to roll over. In one study, with four door sedans and mid size SUVs of the same weight, occupants were nine times more likely to die in the SUV, simply because of the roll over risk. Also, the SUV was more likely to kill occupants of the other vehicle because it was higher. We can argue over whether the X is typical of all mid-size SUVs, but if we accept that BMWs have good handling and are thus better off than vehicles like Jeeps, we still are left with the conclusion that a 5 series is safer than an X5 in terms of handling.

but both are better than a Malibu :-)

Could be. Don't know a Malibu, don't want one. ;)

I was commenting on the fact that there are many reasonable new small cars, fun to drive and economical, that are a good alternative to an aged X5.

Good pic. I'm on my second X5. First one saved my life... Since then, even my wife traded hers for one too.

:thumbup:

Honestly, to ask this questions of most X5 owners on this forum is well, silly. I could spend the $15k on a new domestic (as well as most of you) but choose not to because of what many of you have already stated, I'm a driver and I enjoy driving my 02 X5 4.4 because of the feedback I get when I drive it. My wife has a 04 Ford Taurus that she won't let me get rid of and for her it's the right car. For me give me my BMW.

now that makes sense

WRX wagon comes to mind!

I ended up replacing my X5 with a new $30K Japanese SUV - Mazda CX9 Touring AWD - which I don't like nearly as much as my 8 year old X5. But since my wife is now the primary driver it is much more apropriate for our family needs right now. So now instead I am driving an 11 year old 7 series when I need more seating or space than my Corvette provides. And I would take that 11 year old BMW over any new sub $20K vehicle made today without a second thought!

I'm an Automobile subscriber, and chuckled at that commentary. I bought a 2002 X5 for about $15k last year.

The X5 is my dream car. It is perfect in every way, except perhaps gas mileage (although I just went on a trip and got 22 highway, which ain't that bad). It's fast, it handles well, and it looks awesome. It's comfortable and is built like a Panzer tank.

Yes, it is a 10 year old car. But mine is in good shape, and nobody believes that it is that old, and has 100k miles on it. It seems to me that new X5s don't look very different from mine. And mine looks better!

Maybe I will feel differently when I have to do major work to it, but so far all I replaced is the coolant tank, which leaked. Knock on wood. Did it myself thanks to this forum.

No. I'm currently facing this "dilemma" right now in the search for a new daily driver, though I don't want to spend more than 18K. The thought of buying something brand new, either Japanese or American has crossed my mind, as there are many great choices out there. I like the Honda Fit, the new Focus and Fiesta and the Mazda 2 & 3. Honda has quite a car in the Fit, with steering that is accurate and feelsome, and a manual gearbox among the best in the biz. I think the Chevy Cruze is a nice package too. Hell, if I didn't need 4 doors, I'd consider the Miata because it is just about the most fun for the money.

But, I digress. I am looking for a 2006 325i or 330i or a 2007 328i, manual and sport package being absolute necessities. These can be had for reasonable prices, well under 20K, in fine condition with reasonable miles. These cars all have the great N52 engine sans turbo and it's associated concerns. With good maintenance and a manual gearbox, I am confident one can get well over 200K without driveline trouble. I drove a 2006 330i sport 6 speed on a long test drive at speeds well above the limit and couldn't believe what a car it is at any price. I also tried a 2004 525i non-sport 6 speed and was impressed, though it was down on power. Crevier BMW wanted 14.8K for the 525i, which had been in their care for it's entire 110K miles.

For those of us who are driving enthusiasts and simply must have that alive feeling in our hands and through the seat of the pants, a BMW is the best way to get it in a practical package. I only wish that we could get the 325d or 330d over here with a manual trans. I can't imagine a better long distance driving car.

You're brave. I wouldn't get a used E90 or any one of the BMWs with the newer MOST-BUS computer systems because it's pretty much only the dealer that has the computer equipment to diagnose and deal with problems (and I don't use the dealer). Way too complex for me.

just my 2c -this happened in 2006 and a true story. -- clive bought a 2001 x5 4.4 with 42k and keith bought a 2005 chevy malibu with 5k like new both were about the same price, Today clive's X is one sweet ride and still value twice the amount of keiths malibu. well as for keiths malibu it is ------ well i think i said enough (lol). So in my opinion for 15k a bmw x or a new domestic ---- 5 years from now will tell (lol). even the older 5 and 7 series are still kicking ass and carry good value, looks,comfort and STATUS.. my 2cents

Just did it last week. Traded in my 05 3.0i with a 02 Toyota 4runner limited. I miss the X5 ride and handling but the 4runner is just a beast in the mountians.