Not going to rant. Want an honest answer
 

Qualifier: I love all the good stuff about my 2002 3.0 manual 5 speed, 123K.
Reality: I'm in the car repair business. We are a moderately high end, high quality indie. That being said, I've seen it all, and the X5 is a POS not worthy of the BMW marque. I don't need to explain why. Anyone who can't admit this is going through mental masturbation. Sure, there a few trouble fee vehicles requiring only "normal" maintenance but very few indeed. That's it for the rant. Question: What would you replace this car with?

Want a reliable, very little maintenance car. Lexus. Pick any. You will never have to worry about anything.

I think the car is decent, but honestly, mine at 77k is surprising on how many things are wrong with it. I don't mind it yet, but still amazed at the amount of things I have had to fix already.

What do you need in a car? FWD, AWD, four wheel drive? SUV, sedan, hatchback, sports car, etc?

Do you want new or used? What kind of budget?

Fwiw, our '01 at ~80k miles, has required less than a handful of non-maintenance repairs, in and out of warranty, over the past 10 1/2 yrs. But, I hear you. We've been lucky so far, but...
GL, mD

Will probably replace with something similar. AWD, SUV, SAV? (still don't get that one) Used (car repair business really helps with that one) $8 to $12K.

Here were my other options when looking:

BMW X3
Toyota Highlander
Lexus RX300
Honda CR-V
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Land Rover Freelander

I spent A LOT of time looking at cars before getting the X5 (it's kind of ridiculous really but my countless hours of due diligence got me a great deal). I would have liked to go with the toyota, lexus or honda for reliability/affordability reasons but when looking for those makes I realized that to get anything that looks nearly as good as the 9300$ x5 I would need to spend 15,000+ for a car with similar functionality.

I know the purchase price doesn't take into account the cost of ownership/maintenance but DIY and a trusted friend who owns an indy bmw shop have helped that out.

AWD, as in all wheel drive, eg some BMWs, Audis, many other brands, et al.
SUV, as in SUV...
SAV was simply BMW's nomenclature for an SUV.

$8-$12Gs is simply inheriting someone else's problem car, they either tossed due to repairs or, tossed before the crap hit the fan, imo.
GL, mD

PS...if I recall my MI geography correctly, Beulah is in the little finger of the mitten, and probably calls for AWD or four wheel drive, in winter, with dedicated snow tires. Many to pick from, but that budget is the hurdle, imo.

Just for interest's sake, what was it that busted your chops on yours? 3.0 MT being one o' the more reliable..
I know cars can get kinda' commodity when you're in the business, but I missed mine all the while I drove my sensible and reliable japanese metal. (fanboi sez, see ya in a few years, you'll be back ;) ).

"I useta' track a mildly trick e12.. now I drive a minivan.. it may not be the end o' the road, but it's within a few tankfuls.."

First off, I had the PO's service records when I bought the car. I couldn't believe what I was reading. Rear window regulators, (come on, how many cycles on the REAR WINDOWS?) CV boots, axles, batteries, trailing arm bushings, sway bar links, dash pixels, mid pixels, front window regulators, CCV service, fuel injection service, brake fluid flushes, coolant expansion tank, door lock actuator(s) , etc, etc. Thousands and thousands of dollars, as many of you have mentioned. (Actually, I would love a bunch of X5 owners for my business) . I lost another expansion tank a few weeks after I bought the car. The passenger door lock will not always work with the remote even though it was replaced once. So far, so good. Mental masturbation. Then, as soon as it got cold, I found myself driving to work holding on the driver's door because it froze up. Couple that with the horror stories related to the CCV freezing up with a hydraulic lock up and the mayonnaise on my oil filler cap and dipstick and quite frankly, I've had it. complete cooling system replacement on the way? No thanks. Hydraulic lock up due to frozen CCV? No way. Window stuck down in Northern Michigan winter? No way. Carry enough tools to pull a door panel, replace a battery , thaw out a frozen door, on every trip? No way. Can't read the radio display, waiting for the fan sensor to quit, etc etc etc. This is total BS. I've had two Z3s and currently have an M Roadster so It's not a BMW thing. It's an X5 thing.

And you still bought the X, with that many problems!? If you aren't ranting, what do you call it? I see two problems. First, you ARE ranting. Second, if you are in the repair business, you should know which cars are the most reliable...the ones you don't see many of. And the ones you do see only come in of a routine service. Sell your "POS" and just go high end Japanese and forget about the satisfaction you get from driving German.

Not fair Dragon. I was asked to tell what drove me over the line. Secondly, I was fortunate to have service records. Everything repaired by the PO is common to the X as is well documented here, and all the other X related forums. I suppose you think I should have been the one to spend the thousands on these repairs? That wouldn't have been too smart on my part, would it? I thought I chose a car where most of the aggravating and expensive repairs had already been performed, but as my SA reminds me, it's something new every week. BTW, how much have you spent?

Actually, I've spent a fair amount on the X. I've actually spent more on my M5. However, I don't complain because I expect to spend money on our German cars. It's a trade off for the fun and performance. You, of all people should know BMW's aren't cheap to keep. You have an advantage over some owners in that you own a shop. BMW dealers will usually give you a copy of the service history if you ask nicely. They sometimes resist because the service records usually have owner's name on them. If a car I was considering buying had an extensive service repair record, it would be a red flag that the car may have either the same or more repairs in the future. One more thing, your car is 11 years old and has 122k miles. More repairs are coming....

BTW, when did you buy the X and how many miles did it have?

To be honest. I have driven Toyota, Lexus, and Infinity..... yes these other SUVs are alot more reliable... compared with my 2008 X5 E70 Turbo Diesel....even though I have alternator failure, front baring replacements, firm ware reset and upgrades and weather seal replacemnts..... its performance out weight its troubles.....I am just glad I got all those replaced under warranty with the exception of the rear wiper that just seem to fly off on its own..... oh yes all the plastic kick plates are snapping off one after another too......So far... I consider its a labor of love!

I agree with MD, for $8k to $12k you are just buying a worn out excuse for a vehicle that you will be maintaining and repairing regularly whatever it is. If low purchase cost is the criteria, buy whatever brand you can get parts for cheapest, since I assume your labour is free.

I have had good luck with my last 5 BMWs, no maintenance expense at all, but I make sure to sell them to people who want out-of-warranty cars. I leave happy just prior to 4 years, they get the problems. Costs $$, but never had to worry about fixing anything. And that is even though I have access to a shop, can do all the repairs myself, and get parts at a discount. It just isn't worth the trouble.

Your list is somewhat telling. Window regulators don't wear out from cycles, I believe that they wear out more often from slamming the door with the windows down. It is often the clip that is broken. Just don't slam the doors, or raise the windows an inch first to put the glass further back in the track. You don't need to change the brake fluid every two years, you can leave it and just rebuild the calipers instead. Cheaper to change it though, and that isn't a BMW issue, they all use the same brake fluid. All of us who bought new BMWs got free MIDs and displays when the pixels went. Poor design or manufacture, but they stood behind it. BMW doesn't give out free displays for people who aren't their customers though, so if you bought used you are hooped. If you have the condensate building up under the oil filler cap, then the solution is to drive it harder and longer. If you can't do that, and you have to do a lot of short trips, then expect to have to maintain the CCV. If you keep it cleaned out every few years there is no reason for it to freeze either open or closed. CV boots split on many vehicles. You need to catch them when you do your annual inspection. If you don't, you will end up buying axles. Not necessary if you keep on top of it though. Suspension bushings are not uncommon at that mileage. It sounds like you expected everything to have just been done, and it to be pristine now. Doesn't work like that, they require regular attention.

Buy a CRV. Dead reliable. Boring as hell though.

Let me first say that my 02 X5 at almost 210k miles has been super reliable and a joy to own and drive. I suppose I have been lucky. However I do understand other owners' frustration expressed in this forum. For example, window regulators have been failing for years. So have plastic water pumps, plastic DISA valves, lock actuators, etc. So instead of coming up with better designs, BMW chooses to use the same lousy components year after year.

At some point a few years back this company started to shift focus from excellence in engineering to maximizing returns. Although some could argue that it has gone too far, it should not come as a surprise. Most other manufacturers, from automobiles to washing machines are following the same philosophy today. My 1986 535is had well over 300k when I gave it to charity and was still running well. The X5 might come close. But my wife's 06 330i is falling apart at 70k miles. I can clearly see a difference in the built quality between this car and the seven other BMW's that I have previously owned.

In my view BMW no longer builds cars for people like me, who buy them new but keep them for many years. And perform their own maintenance once out of warranty. Their ideal customer is someone who turns it in as soon as the warranty runs out. Their cars are made to appeal to customers in the showroom, Not to go 300k miles. And this is also the case with all high end cars, including Mercedes, Lexus and others.

So, do you want a dead reliable and cheap to maintain BMW? Find a nice e28 or e30. They are still out there. Own a late model high end automobile out of warranty? Be prepared for possibly some pain.

I have all the service records for my X5 4.8is.

Lets put it like this, I am not impressed. I also see the previous owners complaints about certain things, that it seems BMW did not address. And these were right before I got the car. It's warranty ended right as I bought it.

I didn't spend $12k. I paid $26,011 after taxes.
So far I had done the following.
1. New tires all around, $1200.00
2. Seat belt button, that makes the buckle stay when not in use. $5
3. Front door seal, torn to shit on bottom $80
4. Thrust bushings both sides $75
5. Pass mirror wobbly, Free with help from this site.
6. Couldn't find blue tooth code until getting much needed help from site, Free
7. Trans oil drain and fill, filter, pan drop. Around $200. Chose original ZF fluid
8. Missing floor mats by the time it got to me from Florida. $200 for winter and summer mats.
9. Tail light error. Free, re-soldered the burnt out contact.

Shit I need to do.
1. PDC effed up, one sensor $100
2. Wind noise from Pano Roof, so probably looking at a seal, don't even want to think what is involved
3. Some oil leak from engine oil pan. Didn't get to yet, just started.
4. I might be looking at engine mounts.
5. Probably need end links
6. Most likely will need control arm bushings
7. Replace Nav screen. $200
8. Pass window goes up slow. Might be in for a new motor.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

A lot of maintenance was done on it before I got it. So I am happy about that.
1. W AIR SUSPENSION - AIR SUPPLY UNIT PERMANENT MALFUNCTION
2. Air supply system for air suspension (LF) permanent malfunction
3. W AIR SUSPENSION - AIR SUPPLY UNIT PERMANENT MALFUNCTION
4. BRAKE FLUID CHANGE- FULL MAINTENANCE PROGRAM
5. W ACCUMULATOR/VALVE UNIT, AIR SUSPENSION (LF) PERMANENT
MALFUNCTION
6. ALTERNATOR/WATER PUMP DRIVE BELT- MAINTENANCE PLAN
7. W AIR SUSPENSION - TRACK ROD LOOSE
8. W TIMING CASE COVER, TOP LEAKING
9. W BELT TENSIONER-NOISY
10. W SUCTION LINE FROM OIL TANK TO PUMP LEAKING
11. W RADIATOR COMPENSATING TANK LEAKING
12. W Wheel bearing, front unpleasant noises
13. W OUTPUT SHAFT, FRONT UNPLEASANT NOISES
14. W Wheel bearing, front unpleasant noises
15. W PUMP, WINDSHIELD CLEANING SYSTEM PERMANENT FAILURE
16. W PUMP, REAR WINDOW CLEANING SYSTEM PERMANENT FAILURE

I have to say what I would never rent (Lease)a new BMW. The car was at the dealer every 4 months. If I dropped $75k (or $1300/month) on a new BMW and had to go to dealer so often, I would kill myself. My previous Lexus GS430, which you can trust me, I made it really fun to drive, was driven hard for 145k miles, didn't have 1/100th of these issues. The only time the Lex saw a mechanic was to get an inspection, or get tires mounted. In all that time, I only did the door lock actuator rebuilds $10. Oil, brakes, maf, and get fuel. Not mentioning the $5k in suspension work because that was to make it drive better and nothing was broken. Oh it was a 2001, and I still sold it in MINT condition for $10,700, yea 11 year old car. BMW has a lot to learn. A damn lot, it is a shame that the ultimate driving machine is the Ultimate money headache for some people.

Same way Lexus needs to learn some. If Lexus made their cars perform more out of the box, I guarantee BMW would loose a ton of sales. Most people don't want to buy a lexus to replace diff with LSD, drop a ton on suspension just to get it to stop acting like a pig on ice. Also a shame.

So these two brands are on opposite ends of the spectrum. What would you rather have? Let me tell you this though, if you get a Lexus or Toyota truck, you will not be able to do much to improve the driving dynamics.

With all that, the 4.8is is solid, super fun to drive, and doesn't seem to bother me all too much with the maintenance. I just hope the list doesn't keep getting bigger, just smaller as I bring it back to 100%. I am willing to give the car a chance. I had a bunch of 3 series before, so some issues are common. I also now have a garage so working on the beast is much more pleasant.

Does it bother me that the car needs maintenance. A little bit. We will see how it behaves once I get it to 100%.

If it continues to break shit on me non stop, it will go.

If Lexus comes out with a performance truck that looks good, the X will go as well. But for now, after all the test drives, and comparisons, the 4.8is is the car for me. There is really nothing else out there that does it for me like the X. Deal with it or sell it.

Sorry for the long post.

I drove a RX330, X3, CX7 and Edge before buying my 4.6is Dinan. The 4.6is was the cheapest but the oldest with the most miles (by far). It drove better and tighter than the rest. It has more features. IMO, looks better. And forget about the others, it will absolutely blow the doors off them. It was probably the worst decision from a problematic/expense view but my X5 is sweet and I feel like the sh!t driving it. I had a Subaru Forester - arguably very reliable. The engine detonated with less miles. I had an Expedition with air suspension - lots of repair dollars. They all break down, some more than others. Decide what's important to you, understand the risks and buy accordingly. If it's BMW, I'd try to stick with what they do best - 3 series.

Ahem, had one, sold it for the 03 X5. 5 years of ownership and I barely saw my mechanic for anything but oil changes. No soul to it whatsoever though. I might look at them again if they ever get sparkling V6's. :rofl:


Coming into the third month of ownership with a few fixes already (door handle carrier, tail light solder). Heading out soon to see what the noise in the rear suspension is all about.

This is my first German car and the first car in a long time (not since my first) that I've enjoyed driving it, AND fixing it. Hopefully the small stuff stays small and I can continue to enjoy the V8 goodness for many years. :thumbup:

Completely agree but I own Audi's and they are just as bad, honestly no car is trouble free but I do agree that the X5 is built out of chocolate and sub standard parts. Alot of the NA people on this board will hate me for saying this but because this is NA made the build quality is not to the same standard as some of the Bavarian built vehicles and European models for that matter. How the heck can a NA buillt SUV suffer from frozen door handles when it's colder there than most other places in the World?

Anyway sorry to hear about your trouble but you are not alone, going through a major headache with the Missuses E53 at the moment and as soon as it's good I'm going to trade it in for either a Cayenne or something I like to drive like an Stype R.

Believe me there are far better German Marques than the BMW!

Someone said it there is a new problem every other week. So far everything on mine has been DIY which is good, but, I don't work so fast and I'm getting tired of wrenching almost every week.
That said I love this car. I want to get another when this one goes but, I don't know. Lexus is reliable suv but, I don't like the styling and the inside is boring IMO.
If they made one that is like the x5 to drive I might consider a Lexus. Maybe do a bunch of performance mods to make it fun.

Dont want to Jinx myself
 

I have owned my 01 4.4 x5 for 10yrs. Bought it certified at Dealer when it had about 32k miles. It now has 126k miles. I feel its been very reliable with the exception of the fact I am on the third transmission. Pretty funny, when I bought the car they provided a new set of tires for the vehicle. When the transmission failed for the second time at 92k miles they thought I was a cowboy until I pointed out that the car had the same tires they installed when I bought it. In other words my tires could last for 60k miles but not the transmissions. BMW paid for both.
Yeah I have replaced water pumps, radiators, window regulators etc over the years but I know its a BMW, my 5th as a matter of fact.

9400 miles per year. Three transmissions and the plural of pump, radiator, window regulator? No offense to you, but that is really disgusting.

It is a very difficult math problem.

You can get a great X5 with fairly low miles for $18K USD. In that price range you would be looking at high mileage MDX', old Jeep Grand Cherokee's, or very high mileage lexus.

The thing is, your $18K X5 is really costing more like $28K because of all of the repairs, poor gas mileage (premium), and huge depreciation.

A $28K 2007 MDX with 66K miles v. a $18K 2004 BWM X5 with 70K miles...
Are they equivalent?

Actually the only plural was window regulator and not on the same window. Keep in mind machines age not only by use but also time. Even though I have low annual mileage it still is turned on and off everyday. Doors opened and shut, seats sat in, radio turned of an on gear shift engaged so on and so forth.
The car although 01 model year was delivered new in spring of 2000. Car is on its 13th year in less than a few months. I don't care what you say I will put the car up against any other German or American. Asian autos are in a total different category. The have low maintenance history and an equally low fun and pleasure factor.

Xman you make a really good point. When I bought my 02 3.0. I wanted a BMW because of their reputation as a Driver's car. I paid %15k in '09 at 82K miles. I guess I got what I paid for because it is the funnest SUV I've ever driven.
That said the aggravation factor is something you need to think of if and when you need a reliable car. Twice in 2 years my car quit on the hiway and had to be towed, all the electrical stuff and sensors that are just to fussy cause shut downs or malfunctions to the point that I needed to replace all of the computers and the radio and nav system at 135,000 and $4000. Why did I do it? I am hooked on this car...

Why can't BMW build a car like the Asians? I need a spare car. this last time in the dealer for the computers and electrincs was 5 weeks, the rental car was over $2000 and I returned the rental on weekends. So, for 5 weeks I had the added agravation of picking up and dropping off... this can only be love, because it makes no sense!

Domestics are more reliable than the BMW now. I also have a Ford Explorer with close to 100,000. It has never broke down in 6 yrs. I have not had 1 repair except tires, belts, fluids etc. It's not fun to drive though.

You can have both fun and reliability. Ask Lexus and Infinity how they do it.

I will buy another BMW when this one goes... I guess the abuse is worth it, for the days of satisfaction I get from this car.

'01 3.0 X5 bought new. Maintenance, tires, and a window switch I think. Still in service for mother in law.

'04 3.0 X5 CPO with 17K miles. Any major issues were taken care in the first year under CPO/new car warranty while I drove my dealer's loaners. Maintenance and a door handle over the next six years and 100K miles.

'04 4.8is with 11K miles purchased last year. I've spent more on mods in first three months than I did on everything in 7 years on the 3.0. :D No service issues. Now with 21K miles.

But I'm ready to spend money on it. I didn't buy an appliance. I didn't buy a status symbol and I did NOT buy a deal. Over the course of 7 years, I sought, found, and purchased exactly what I wanted- because it*is*what*I*wanted. Being happy with your decisions is all about your expectations and nothing more. If you expect to drive a problem free used BMW, you'll be disappointed. Every*single*time.

The X is made from shit. Be like me, own spare vehicles, and keep replacing all the broken X5 plastic parts with more plastic parts.

OR... get the Lexus RX. I have taken this car apart many times, it goes back together just the same. It might look like a dinosaur egg, but they drive nice, don't break.

I have to disagree. Had an 08 rx. No way does it drive anywhere near the 4.8is. No way in hell. Nothing you can do to it either to make it more fun. But it's safe, never a problem, no issues at all. It has scared me more than once with it's lack of handling. Wife car 100%.

Well, I made my move. For the same money I spent on my 02 3.0 manual, I have gone "back" to the Grand Cherokee. I have purchased a 2005 Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi. I will miss the 5 speed, the heated steering wheel, the 24 gallon fuel tank. I will not miss the fear of using the power windows in the winter, the fear of a frozen CCV, the unpleasant experience of a door that will not close, broken door handles, the intermittent door lock actuators, half the radio display missing, the tail and brake lite warnings, the rattling tail gate, 3700 RPM at 80 MPH, and for those of you with the v8 autos, the oil and coolant leaks, chain problems, and of course, the auto trans that can't go 80 thousands miles. I will not have to replace the complete cooling system anytime during the life of the vehicle. These vehicles easily go 200K plus. CV boots and axles last well over 100k and replacement new complete axle assemblies are cheap. The AWD system with the Hemi package is arguably the best in the industry. It way out performs the 02 3.0i. I have no experience with the later model x5s, but it will be hard to beat electronically controlled locking front and rear diffs and a locking T-case for traction. I don't like the anti lock brakes as well as the X, but the mileage on 89 mid range is similar, 18 to 20. And handling on dry pavement damn close to my X. Much better on sloppy pavement. Jeep has been playing this game for a long time, longer than anyone else in the industry. So, I leave the Outpost and return to the general Bimmer forums for my M Roadster. I have enjoyed my stay, fixed my tail lights, rattling t gate and a few other nit picking items thanks to you. It's not BMW as a whole, just the X5 that is the real letdown. They dropped the ball on this one.

Well.
Just by sitting into that Jeep,you probably feel like at home,aren't you?
It may not be the case for everyone though.I don't know about the 5.7 Hemi trim,but I once test drove same model with smaller engine and won't say anything about power train,but come on,myself being 6'3",it's not a choice for me.That crumpled interior with small windows and awkward sitting position doesn't even come close to my X,the rear bench is just terrible,so the leg room for rear passengers.
Steering,OMG,3 turns from point to point vs. 5 in the X,good luck going on highway with that ratio and uninformative power steering.
Ergonomics just suck.
Who? Just tell me who is buying BMW for mud and crap?
Performance wise,you are right that Toyota Tundra will tow more lbs. than your ex 3.0i,it's a silly comparison of engines with twice a displacement.
Better handling you say. I just doubt,but again it depends what you define under handling,but just one thing that I remember about that.Did you notice any sticker anywhere in your X saying to drive carefully because the vehicle is gonna flip and roll? No,I don't remember seeing one of those in my X,but I do remember one of those in the Grand Cherokee.
Oil leaks and Cooling system is usually the consequence of an abuse and negligence of the owner,and for many of us,a previous owner.
We all have a different taste almost for everything.You found your love and leave.Best of luck and many years of joyful ride to you.

Just by sitting into that Jeep,you probably feel like at home,aren't you?
Not sure what you're implying here??

... being 6'3",it's not a choice for me.
Fair enough.

That crumpled interior with small windows and awkward sitting position doesn't even come close to my X
Less glass, true. However bigger rear quarters do provide better over the shoulder passing and lane changes, and there aren't three headrests on the back seat to cut the rear visibility in half. I don't find the seats awkward at all. I find that I don't have to make excuses for a sore back anymore. For me, the standard seating in my X sucked.


the rear bench is just terrible,so the leg room for rear passengers...
True. rear seat sucks for passengers.


Steering,OMG,3 turns from point to point vs. 5 in the X,good luck going on highway with that ratio and uninformative power steering.
Simply not true. Highway manners are excellent.

Ergonomics just suck.
Matter of opinion

Who? Just tell me who is buying BMW for mud and crap?
Mud and crap can happen anywhere. It's nice to know you can get out of trouble if you should get into trouble. Not to mention SNOW???

Performance wise,you are right that Toyota Tundra will tow more lbs. than your ex 3.0i,it's a silly comparison of engines with twice a displacement.\
The Hemi has twice the displacement, 100 more HP, and gets the same gas mileage. What's wrong with that???

just one thing that I remember about that.Did you notice any sticker anywhere in your X saying to drive carefully because the vehicle is gonna flip and roll?
That's a liability thing and you know it. It also says I'll kill my kid if I'm stupid enough to put a baby in a car seat facing the air bag. I seem to remember quite a few posts on this forum about upside down X5s.

I'll bet you $10,000 (HA HA) that this Jeep won't cost me a fraction of what you will pay in repairs and maintenance in the 125K to 200K mileage zone.
Oil leaks and Cooling system is usually the consequence of an abuse and negligence of the owner,and for many of us,a previous owner.
We all have a different taste almost for everything.You found your love and leave.Best of luck and many years of joyful ride to you.[/QUOTE]
Thanks. Seriously, thanks.

Winter driving depends a lot on winder tires setup,I am from Russia and now live in Canada,so I know about winters.So far I had no troubles with snow and light off roading(half wheel deep puddles,stony slopes etc.) even with all season Falken luxury SUV tires.
So? Many things are in play in those situation + the driver's common sense.

About you being "at home" with jeep,just saying that your' back to what you like and feel comfortable.Good for you on that one.Not more that that.

How do you compare the presence of Air Bag warning sticker to Driving dynamics? I still don't get you in this one.
It's a warning,which is just not present in X,for a reason I guess.

This is true. I ran off the Interstate in the rain in my previous X5 3.0. I'd neglected replacing the high dollar tires and I hydroplaned. Totally my fault.

Of course, I had 20" wheels and performance tires on it that were past the wear bars. I came to rest in mud that came up to the running boards when the wheels finally just spun in the mud. Called the Highway patrol and waited for my ticket and a tow. But then I got anxious and started rocking it too and fro once the mud came back around the tires. DSC off, of course.

I got out! I had rooster tails of mud sligning from all 4 wheels! Mud was on TOP of my X5. Drove about an hour and a half back home and kissed my girls. I'd thought I was going to die.

No problems in the snow with my 20" wheels and new tires. If it snowed more often, I'd throw some snows on it and roll like so many others do. It's not rocket science and it's far from anything to do with the car. Anyone can say one car is a better tool than another, but it really depends on the tool doing the driving.

These pics are AFTER 100 miles in pouring rain. The car was much cleaner once I got home. The whole truck looked like the side view mirror. Caked in mud.

http://www.my02.com/images/04X5/offroad09a.jpg

http://www.my02.com/images/04X5/offroad09e.jpg

http://www.my02.com/images/04X5/offroad09f.jpg

http://www.my02.com/images/04X5/offroad09b.jpg

Edit:

One last thing:

If you balance the use and abuse with old school maintenance and TLC for the paint/interior, these cars will stay working well and performing well as long as you take care of them. After all of that abuse and 7 years of utility, this is what my 100K mile X5 looked like the week I sold it. My neighbor's had it for a year with no major issues.

http://www.my02.com/images/x5fs/rightfence.jpg

http://www.my02.com/images/x5fs/refelctfence.jpg

http://www.my02.com/images/x5fs/backfence.jpg

oh BNW good luck with the Hemi

do your research, that and the earlier jeep V8,s have had there fair share of issues

Our 2001 X5 has had both front CV joints and an alternator. Not big problems at 90k. I would buy another one if the gas mileage was better.

Finally got rid of our 2001 4.4 V8 Sport for an E61 M5 touring and glad it's gone. Yes we miss the X5 driving position and comfort but not the problems we had.

They are built of chocolate.

you will regret that decision. e61 is one ugly pos on top of things that are wrong with them, mho, e39 would've been a classic move.

THE ONLY THING THAT I FIND WRONG WITH X5 is that they are build in US and not in GERMANY. haven't had anything wrong with my x5 sitting at 120k+. oil change that bitch and thow some tires on it, and if anything does fail very easy to work on yourself. DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS.

This has been quite a read...and let me just say now that I am at 160k miles and have replaced everything except my 'no-reverse transmission' i can comfortably say that these SAVS are quite problematic...

I can live with replacing window regulators (3 so far), cv boots and etc...but the cooling system on the 01-03 are simply a joke and nothing more...

bnw,

Thank you for your input and contribution to the forum. It's important to consider all owner experiences; good and bad.

I do think you are yelling to deaf ears. We all know the X requires more maintenance than the Jeep, we know it's more costly to purchase and more costly to maintain, we know what the problem areas are, and we know what it takes to get them fixed.

There are certain qualities that BMWs offer which attracted me to the brand in the first place: looks, build quality, interior quality, driving characteristics, aftermarket support, good communities, optional equipment, etc.

While I don't think going through a transmission every 80k is "acceptable", I would say it borders on "tolerable" and I look at it a a cost of ownership. In my opinion, once you get through the common items... these trucks should run to 250k without any major failures. Preventative maintenance is key.

At the end of the day there is a little bit of luck involved. Any car or truck with 100k miles is going to have some failures.

Good luck with the Jeep.

You are concerned about reliability, so you sold your e53 X5 (which I do actually agree could be a problematic vehicle) and purchased a 2005 Grand Cherokee with a hemi instead of a Toyota, Honda, etc? I wish I could have found the facepalm icon. It seems like you are still doing a little mental masturbation yourself. If you really are looking for better reliability, you wouldn't have purchased this particular GC or a Jeep in general, imo. You may have been able to convince me if you bought an 08 or newer GC with the 6 cylinder, but not an 05 with the hemi. I wish you luck, but anticipate you are going to face continued frustration down the road because of this choice.

Here ya go - a double

Everyone does realize that this is a thread from like 8 months ago, rt? I doubt the OP even comes here anymore.

His loss!! maybe someday - he'll come back to a Bimmer!!!

JMHO

He has probably been wrenching under his Jeep for the past 8 months and doesn't have much time for forums.

Lol. I was just joking, but he really has been busy wrenching. He has posted in Jeepforum about a leaky sunroof, u joints, cv joints, clicking in the steering wheel, button bulbs on the center console and a leaky thermostat gasket. All of this appears to have been within the first 3 months of ownership.

That sucks!!

dont wish that upon anyone but i guess it pays to make an informed decision before buying a CAR

thats a shame...

EDIT: With all the problems that I had/have i can say one thing...after 8 yrs of ownership i know this car inside and out and can pretty much handle any repair...thats about the only plus

Over 150k miles on my '03 4.4 E53. 2nd set of OE/OEM tires were replaced at over 130k (65k miles on each set!!!), replaced OE battery last fall (8 yrs of duty), replaced waterpump, exp tank, upper coolant hose ass'y, FSR and belts in '10 (7yrs and over 120k). Everything else is OE except for fluids. My X has thousands of miles towing a 6k lb trailer in the TX and FL heat with AC on high (OBC temp display has show over 120 deg F in stop and go traffic while keeping 12k lbs of truck/trailer going flawlessly). X was purchased with 100k miles on it for less then 25% the MSRP.

Will be doing the cam chain guides soon (at 150k, it's due), some here mentioned Audi as a better bet then BMW yet the 4.2 V8 needs cam belts replaced at 60k miles, if this X was an Audi I would be at 1/2 life of the 3rd SET OF CAM BELTS!!!!

As the ex owner of 3 "top of the line" Jeep SUVs, I can say with total certainty that the X has had far fewer issues then even the best of the 3 Jeeps. Jeep customer service sucks ass to boot. One of the 3 would just die on the highway every few months, 5 different Jeep dealer service depts had it DOZENS OF TIMES and could never fix the fail. I finally tracked it down to a loose ECU ground wire, 2 seconds with a screwdriver and it never happened again. Fishing for toll change in my pocket by putting my left foot on the dead pedal and leaning my right shoulder into the seatback would caused the seatbacks to bend, was told by the service manager at Countryside Jeep, FL that at 6'1" and 230lbs I was unusually large and would need to PAY OUT OF POCKET FOR NEW DRIVER SEAT ASS'Y!!!!! He almost became a crimson stain on the wall, they covered the seat replacement several times. "TRAIL RATED"??? Try Fail Rated, pointed out to him that my Henessey Viper runs 10.4s in the 1/4 and my fat ass has never ONCE bent the seatframe.

Yeah, I wasn't laughing at the fact bnw has had a bunch of repair issues on his Jeep, I was laughing that my joke about him wrenching was actually true. Trust me, I do not want bad car repair karma. I drive an e46 M3 out of warranty. The last thing I need are my vanos hub tabs sheering off or my rear subframe splitting in two on my drive home from work tonight.

Being serious though, I really don't understand why people complain about reliability issues then replace their vehicle with another one with a similar reliability record. Deep down reliability must not have been the issue for bnw. Perhaps he missed the GC seeing as he has owned a few of them in the past and he was trying to justify it to himself.

it was probably more $$$ spent than actual reliability
probably didnt appreciate / anticipate the issues he had with it

I'm hoping not to regret it either but i didnt spend alot to get it - got lucky with a family deal - anyway its a crap shoot - sometimes people have alot of issues and other dont

old fashioned maintenence probably has alot to do with it too

just my 2 cents!!

E39 could be a headache financially and the E61 has the Epic V10 with BMW warranty. I'm sick of throwing money down the drain on older cars so went with a much newer one and it still lugs more than the X5 on holidays.

The E6x M5 is one of the most involving car you can buy for the money these days.

The 4.4 E53 X can haul over 1000 lbs cargo, over 7,000 lbs with a trailer. How in the world can the E61 haul more?

He's probably referencing the cavernous 17.7 cu/ft (501 litres)of cargo room of the E61. This compared to the pithy 16.4 cu/ft (464 litres) of the E53. It's a ~16" perfect square worth of space. That's like enough room for a whole igloo six pack cooler! :rofl:

Not talking about towing capabilities I'm talking luggage space.

The X5 with all seats in place had 465L compared to the 500+ of the M5. Not a whole lot more but it makes a difference with all the family onboard.

ahh but it's not just that, the narrowness of the X5 boot made it much more awkard to load for things like buggies etc. Yes you could stack to the roof but it was tall and narrow whereas the E61 is just wider and easier to load.

I'm not insulting your mum or dad just stating an opinion. And to be fair we can't really compare an M5 to an X5 4.4 V8 (maybe the X5M?)

You mentioned "hauls more" in your inital post where you should have said more cargo space.

FWIW, i'ld like to see your E61 haul an extra large dog carrier.

I said Lugs and in the UK it can means haul or carry.

Sorry for the confusion.

And why on earth would I want to haul an extra large dog carrier?

OK, this side of the pond "haul and lug" are more about the weight then the volume.

I have found the Xs ability to fit an XL dog carrier useful, seeing as it's sometimes used to transport my German Shephard. The E61 would need an XL sunroof to fit the XL MidWest Ovation carrier I use in the X. For some its not just overall volume but the overall shape of the volume.

It's got a full panoramic roof on it which is really nice.

And one of the guys on the forum has a dog cage in his so no need for a dog box on the back when the dog goes inside. A proper dog crusher is the M5 touring :rofl:

Not personal at all. If you're going to make an argument of fact like a whole foot of more cargo room, then make one of fact and be prepared to offer the complete story. The facts are that a 16" square of additional space is barely larger in an E61. To say that the E61 'lugs more' (or whatever) is not the same discussion as saying you find it easier to load.

If you're going to have a discussion of opinion, like comparing an M5 to an X5, then have one of opinion. Speaking of opinions, I think the E60 and E61 are just a touch better looking than an E64 6 series which is an abomination to otherwise harmless metal. The only E60 M5 I've driven was on a track in Spartanburg, SC. I remain so thoroughly unimpressed that I wouldn't own an E6x- even an M5 or M6- for any reason other than it was free. Even then I'd sell it at the first hint of mechanical issue.

But that's what makes the wide, wide world go 'round. Facts are facts, but people will always like different stuff.

a fellow e39er from bimmerfest?

If you take the time to read my response I did actually talk about the way the space is easier to load even though we had the retractable floor in the E53.

I think you must be the only person to be unimpressed by an E6x then!

Mechanical issues are under warranty, would I run one without an AUC/Mondial warranty? Not a hope in hell.

Um. Yeah. Now which of us needs to take time to read more thoroughly the other's post?And there are a ton of folks who share a disdain for the E60 styling, the headlights especially. Just Google 'Dame Edna headlights BMW' and watch the results poor in.
http://e60.5post.com/forums/attachme...2&d=1278521225

You said you were unimpressed with it on track now you are having a go at the styling!

Also you post the picture where the kidney grill sticks out more than eye lashes (which to be fair are only on the LSI model as they are the LED strips) and then directly underneath your sig/avatar shows exactly the same kidney grille from your X5. Lol!

Anyway enjoy your trucks, I'm off on my hols with my extra ice box in transit.

Toodle Pip!

Yes. I like it neither on the track nor on the poster board. It's a pig of a sedan and it looks like one, too. But that's just my opinion.

That's a BMW marketing picture of the E60. I thought I'd be as true to the model as possible. Though I think BMW went a little sideways with squared kidneys in the 80's and 90's, I happen to like the grills on just about every BMW save for the E90 3 series 'mustache' grill. Not sure where the grill discussion comes from as the post was about butt ugly headlights. And they're ugly (to me) in every single E60 and E61 I have ever seen. LED's or not.

But if you like 'em, drive it! See now? THAT was funny! :rofl:

You can keep the Bangle and Hooydonk "flaming surface" design, flamers are not my style.

IMHO, the best looking 5 series is this.........

2003 BMW 540i Sport 6 Speed For Sale

Let this one slip thru. Next low miles, clean, one owner, manual trans M62 powered 5 is mine!

:thumbup:
http://www.my02.com/images/2010/10fall.jpg

http://www.my02.com/images/2010/10fallfr.jpg

http://www.my02.com/images/2010/10fallrear.jpg

http://www.my02.com/images/2010/window.jpg

http://www.my02.com/images/2010/roundel.jpg

http://www.my02.com/images/2010/mirror.jpg

http://www.my02.com/images/2010/garage.jpg

I have to agree that the e39 is the best looking 5'er of all time, imo. However, this is a very late model run car. I think that when the F10 is just about to end production and they updated the wheels, aerodynamic kits, etc via LCI, it MAY be able to give the e39 a run for it's money. Unfortunately, as good of cars as they are, I feel the e60's will sort of be left by the wayside. The headlights are probably one of the worst design features on the entire car. However, the shape of the kidney grills are a close second, imo. Or maybe it is the bulky height of the trunk deck...I digress. Then again, that N/A V10 is a work of art.

That's what I'm talking about. Classic form follows function design executed perfectly! The rear valance panel needs to be blacked out if it was mine.

Spent a few months shopping for a new M X5, for slightly more money, I am going with an E34 6 spd as a DD and a '13 Viper. GF is ditching the Accord and will drive my '03 X5.