E53 4.6is or 4.8is (advice/comments)
 

Hello everyone, I am in the market for a E53 4.6is or 4.8is. Wanted to get some input from you guys. I usually like to purchase low mileage vehicles, but with the beast, I hear horror stories. You know, members buy the car and then a month later the transmission or air suspension fails. I would hate to purchase a 4.8is with 60,000 miles and then drop money on a big ticket item. I am thinking of going with a 4.6is with high mileage, maybe even over 100,000. Some of these are in great shape. Some of the 4.6is have over 90,000 miles and original transmission. Is this a ticking time bomb. I have noticed in my search that the 4.8is have more transmission problems, is this true? Can you guys comment on this. I try to be a DIY kind of guy. I will do oil, brakes and look at the forums and follow instructions by fellow members, but would not tackle the expensive and extensive repairs, like transmission or suspension. I would appreciate any help and advice you guys can give me. I want to be able to post pics of my beast here as well.

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I am going to vote for the 4.8. For no other reason than newer and a bit quicker. Not sure on the 4.6 vs 4.8 trans failure rate thu.

I vote for the 4.8is. I had the same question when I was shopping for my X5. The 4.8 is a bit more money but it has more power, better fuel economie, nicer exhaust sound, panoramic sunroof, angel eyes and is facelift if you like the new look.

Buy mine! You wont regret it.

having worked on and driven both the 4.6is and 4.8is, i would say go with the 4.6is.

1) Style 87
2) Non-Panoramic Sunroof (yes this is a PRO) some early 4.8is had this also till 4/04
3) 5 Speed trans actually feels better than the 6speed transmission, the 4.6is shifts better and is preditable. You know it will fail on you, and the trans is rebuildable.
4) rear air suspension only, no troublesome 4 wheel air on the 4.8is
5) you could always facelift the front and rear end when ever you want and even retrofit adaptive headlamps
6) valve guides and intermediate levers problems non existant. most 4.8is have these problems with oil consumption and cold start misfiring.
7) the transfer case issue on the 4.6is can be prevented( 1" longer front drive shaft, and replacable sun gear) the transfer case on the 4.8is has issues with the VTG actuator which is $900 and may still need a transfer case if that does not fix it.

the only pro's i would go for on the 4.8is would be the adaptive headlamps and black chrome mufflers, which can be installed on the 4.6is.

Lot of great posts and comparisions. I vote for 4.6is. I have an '03 Dinan 4.6is. Tons of miles, still drives great and the engine spins up fast and strong.....and then there's the Dinan exhaust note. You pay a premium for a 4.8is. I'd buy a 4.6is, pocket the money for the inevitable repairs, or splurge and install a full Dinan system. You'll love it.

I vote for the BMW X5M...........500HP

I have a 4.8is. I vote for the 4.6is. If I had known...

what,s worng with the 4.8is
 

I have a 4.6is just wondering what up withthe 4.8is

I researched a lot when I was buying one. I had 4.4i before and then after selling it, I was in the same dilemma whether to go for 4.6 or 4.8. I read tons of reviews and spoke to my friends having these and test drove these and finally concluded with 4.8i. I am glad I made this decision and have no regrets and enjoy my ride everyday. Even the growl of 4.8 makes me happy.... Rest are all personal preferences. I'll suggest to test drive both and make your own decision. The only issue with 4.8i is front air suspension but just keep $700 aside and you should be all set.

I went with the 4.8is.

Love driving the car but I have to say I've been alarmed at the amount of work it's needed. See my recent thread here...:

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...ny-advice.html

I'd be out over $10k in repairs so far in the two years and 18k miles I've owned it, were it not for CPO.

Picked it up from the dealer with 30k on the clock. Looked clean as can be. All records. One owner trade-in.

Maybe it's just been a higher maintenance example of a 4.8is than most but I'm considering selling mine once I reach the end of CPO.

And re:the front air suspension... My dealer quoted me $1k per side PLUS labor, if I didn't have CPO.

Thanks guys
 

Great information guys. Thank you very much. I was working on a deal on a 4.6 with over 120,000 miles that was posted recently, but I guess it wasn't my time as it sold. It looked great and the guy was cool and seemed to be a nice guy. I guess I have to keep looking. Again though, previous post, the member bought one with 30,000 miles and the warranty put over $10,000 in repairs in two years. At this point it feels like a roll of the dice. If you buy high mileage or low mileage, they are going to drain your pockets. By the way, I do like the pre-face lift 4.6is more than the 4.8's. Not really sure why though. They just look nicer to me for some reason. Okay keep the advice coming guys, other members also appreciate it. Thanks again.

Please elaborate a little more. You have valuable information that I would like to know. Please do share your opinion.

Thanks

can I ask what kind of mileage you have and what have been the major repairs that you have done.
thanks

Killcrap's post sums it up.

I got our 05 4.8is with 45k, now has 81k. It has needed a new mechatronic unit for the transmission ($3k), 2 new front struts, new EHC module for the suspension, new valve block for the suspension, new air pump/compressor for the suspension, new swaybar endlinks (not expensive), valve cover gaskets (at 80k!?), new lower oil pan gasket (again, at 80k, is a little early), new crankcase vent valves, new fuel filter TWICE (somewhat $$), exhaust manifold gasket that cracked by itself... aside from that, it's a great truck! :D

The pano sunroof still works flawlessly, however. I might have jinxed myself mentioning it.

At least I know that these items are now new on the truck and that it should last another... 50k? 30k? Who knows.

Icer- how do you like your Cayenne TT vs the 4.8?

The CTT is more of a GT SUV. Fast and comfortable (though ours has PASM with adjustable height and dampening). 4.8 has a jarring ride and noisier exhaust compared to the CTT.

Of course, the power difference is huge. If you don't mind the turbo lag, the CTT is awesome. Handling seems to be sharper in the X5, maybe because of the stiffer ride. Both our cars have servotronic steering.

The rear leg room is less in the Cayenne than X5.

Both our cars are 05 and the CTT wins hands down in interior material (alcantara and full leather).

I don't get the quirkiness with the CTT with the air suspension, unlike the 4.8! :banghead:

Transmission for the CTT is more predictable than the 4.8.

When it's time to replace the X5 (soon), I'll get another Cayenne, maybe a GTS or a newer TT. I'm done with X5's.

Sorry - do you mean that the air suspension is quirkier on the X5 or that it's quirkier on the CTT?

quirkier on the X5. more sensitive on the x5. My sentence was confusing, sorry.

I seen a road and track test drive against the cheyenne and x5, the x5 handled better and had better pick up, now that was against the 4.6is .it is a little different than the 4.8 i ,the new 4.8 i is 500lb more than the 4.6is.
And the cheyanne was 1.8 seconds lower then the slower and the 4.6is

I have 141k. I've only owned it for a few months. It does have a torque converter issue that I am digging into. No codes and talking with ZF NA seems to be pointing to the valvebody. I really think the Dinan software has 'saved' the trans by setting higher lockup pressures and shift points. I think some trans issues are due to too much TC slipping for a seemless shift. IMO, I like the higher shift - feels more sporty. As for previous repairs, I know there was some suspension maintenance - typical. Beyond that, not sure. Everything appears orignal. My 4.6is is a beast. I don't have the supercharger....I can only imagine what that is like and I know guys who have similar mileage with 450hp with no issues. Forum info is tricky....lots of people with issues venting...nothing wrong with that. This is the place. My guess is there's tons of X5 owners with few problems that aren't members.

yeah, probably not a Cayenne with twin turbos. :)

experience strictly from reading a lot.
hmm.. '01 4.6is, babied to death and gorgeous is worth percisely painful for trade-in, so you buy one -here- for not much money.
You prefer the pre-facelift.
You have Gobs of money left over to chase everything killcrap mentioned and more (and there is a Lot more, just not specific to 4.6/4.8).
You will have a sweet ol' X'er and confidence that the probs have been fixed correctly cuz you were there.
since you don't want a MT, seems one choice.

Hey guys, well I am still actively looking. I am 100 percent sure that I will be buying a 4.6is. Spoke with someone who had one with 70,000 miles and had transmission put in by dealer. A couple of other sellers I spoke with had over 90000 and original transmission. This is a stressful purchase. Man I hope that I get a lucky and buy one that will not crap out at least not anytime soon

Whatever you go with just try to get the "best" vehicle with a good known history.

IMO, a high mileage vehicle that has a lot of the trouble items already replaced and known maintenance/service history is better than a low-mileage unknown vehicle.

When you have problems, and let's face it you will regardless/eventually, best thing is you already discovered xoutpost.

Good luck and enjoy!

:iagree:

and not just the locally-famous 'trouble' items.. suspension shtuff wears out in these heavy-weights and it can be *cough* stimulating to get the estimate. That said, it is good for 100k, so not arguing price.. just damned nice if the previous owner hadda' foot the bill, presuming you can trust the fix..

service history..
service history..
and cough up for the independent inspection if I missed someone else mentioning it - that is R E Q U I R E D.

And make sure you get a PPI done, whichever you choose, I love my 4.8is so far and have had the following issues.
1. Dead battery - fixed
2. Dead rear brake lamp - to be looked into
3. NAV Dead Pixel - to be looked into.

I bought it with around 40K used and it's at 72K now, previous owner did fix issues when i found it during the PPI. (hoses/front bushings..some other stuff i forgot)

Yes, that reasoning makes sense. And I will be ready and expect problems, just don't want to pay for new transmission after just purchasing the truck. Most trucks that I have seen with 60,000-100,000miles have original trans.

Many ZF5HP24s let go at 90k+ miles, including my own on the 4.4i. I am convinced this is caused by the torq converter but same end result. The overhaul of the AT is not hard but you need some patience and a little ingenuity.

My 4.8iS has gone about 12k miles in the last 2 years and the only real issues were a broken fuel pump and the bushings in the tension struts. I am not convinced by the shift logic of the 6 speed either but I would still buy the newer car anyway.

What price do you guys believe a 4.6is with good -excellent condition between 90,000-100,000 miles should sell for. I am seeing a lot of 19,000-20,000 from private sellers. I would pay a premium for low miles, but 100,000, I don't know

About a year ago I sold my 2002 4.6is with 188,000 miles. Original engine and original transmission. I was the original owner and it served me well. It was maintained by the book and aside from replacing wear and tear items no major issues. Worst problem were replacing the window regulators, probably 6 of them in total. As a side note, for about 160,000 miles it had an aftermarket supercharger on it and the 4.6 was not babied by any means. FWIW.

Ill sell you my 4.8is for $18,500.

I have had a few x5's and this truck is very nice, hard to beat all the standard options the 8 has. The 6 speed automatic is very nice too!

I personally would go with the newer truck. I was in the same boat a couple of months ago.

1. I don't trust some dude with a 9 YO truck that has 50k miles. Stop looking for that, it probably bullshit. Go with higher mileage and find one with service history.
2. My thing, is that with newer car, more issues are addressed. At least you hope they are.
3. Standard features on the X are also very nice.
4. All things I have done, I did them because I care, and I want a MINT machine.

People that don't like the 6spd in the 4.8is, are the ones that never got the truck going like it can. I have to agree, that granny driving, the trans does some unexpected shit. I personally wouldn't up shift going up a hill, but this truck does it.

Once you get on the GO pedal, the truck, and the 6sp are amazing. So intuitive. It is almost like its ahead of you, and ready to rip out the hole before you are. The thing will even hold first gear, slowing down, waiting for you to get on the go pedal again, and be in the power band. It will take a block for it to get out of this mode, but I love it. It is a thrill every time. This car even drifts. Yes the fronts pull you out, but eventually, you get enough time sliding the rear to put a smile on your face.

I personally like the facelift more.

Either trim you choose, it will be fun, and an experience.

MAN!!!! I am so glad to read this. I just bought my 4.8is a few weeks ago and I thought something was wrong with the trans!! I mean I was love with the idea of it expected me to hit that turn at 40 and held it in the powerband, but it scared me too cuz I thought I was in for a major repair. WHEW!!!!:excited: It's on now!!

Yea it has some sort of race logic in it. I came off the highway at about 60 and stayed at that speed till the turn, slammed the brakes right before the apex, the car downshifted at this point (I didn't realize), when I slammed on the throttle, it peeled all 4 tires, fishtailed, and made the turn. I almost shit myself. I was expecting it to downshift, then take off, but the car was ready. When I let up, it held the gear for a block, waiting to do it again. After that, I learned how to get it in this mode at will. Sport mode helps by the way.

It takes the car, maybe 10 seconds to get into this logic. At which point it keeps you in the power band. The longer you stay aggressive, the bigger the smile.

To get out of this mode, just hold it steady, it will up shift and settle down. Letting go of gas doesn't really work as fast. It just locks up that gear till the RPM comes down low enough. And if you get on the brakes, the trans down shifts and still keeps the revs up to stay in the power.

And yes folks, that why my mileage is below 10mpg. I like to shake out the loose components lol.

Oh I don't know about the 4.6, but the 4.8 with the 4 corner air bags, can take a jump, nicely at that. Really nails the landing, no drama. Only thing that lets you know inside the car, is the 4x4 keeps flashing when in the air. Not that I expect this to be a selling point, but it's the things that give me a pleasant surprise.

P.S. I practice safe low altitude flying.

What the hell!! Are you a rally racer or something? lol.. Thanks for the info. I'm an aggressive driver but I've been holding back until I got a good feel for the vehicle. Kinda like when I first got my ZX-12R. Damn near threw myself off of it when I got it. I have a good handle on her now, but she still scares the hell outta me...lol

No. I am just push my toys. I started out with slow cars, and bikes. First bike was a Suzuki 250 upright. Next gsxr 600. Next GSXR1k (my fav). Next Busa. Next near death 30mph, got T-boned, gave up bikes till I retire and move to the country.

And no, I start out slow to take it easy too. Just push a little harder here, take a turn a bit faster there. It takes time to find great spots for stunts. Thankfully the spots stay at the same place and seldom change too much. So over the years I've collected enough locations to have fun without too much danger to others, and out of sight from the cops.

You can't really outrun Motorola on a car. Bike on the other hand.....lol.

Sorry for jacking the thread.

Point being, either X will be a lot of fun as long as you don't mind the maintenance. And if you do it yourself, you are ahead of the game.

Oops...yeah sorry for jacking the thread. Besides the impending repairs, so far I love the 4.8. If you don't care to much abt power, then I would say go 4.6 or 4.4.

Fyi....my ZX-12R CAN outrun Motorola :-)

okay, so what do you guys think would be the better buy. A 03 4.6is imola red, 100,000 miles, dinan upgrades, high flow mass meter, throttle body, exhaust, CIA, trans and engine stage 4 software 2 owner BMW dealership serviced up to January 2012. Or, 04 black 4.8is 45,000 miles two owner stock. Looks like both cars have original trans. Price difference would be $10,000. I am thinking the 03. Save the 10 grand and if the PPI goes well, make the purchase. What do you guys think?

Red beats black.
4.6 beats 4.8
45,000 beats 100,000
Both are old, so it's a wash there
Dinan and performance mods are a deal breaker, good indication of abuse.
Therefor, 4.8 IMO

For me, that's a tough one.

I prefer stock rather than modified but that's no guarantee when it comes to problems. Less than half the mileage but $10K more.

On the other hand, if you like modified and it already has mods you like - with a known service record, plus $10k less, but double the mileage. Hmmm ...

$10K is hard to ignore but I would probably go with the 4.8 for the reasons that JCL pointed out.

Spoke to the dealership who told me the gentleman who installed the Dinan parts was in his late 40's and took very well care of the beast. Or else I was thinking the same thing.

Not saying all that is not true but ...

The dealer is in the business to sell.

You can't always believe all of what someone says.

Age doesn't matter to the vehicle.

You asked and we gave our opinion.

Buyer beware.

In the end you have to go with what you feel is best for you, regardless of what they or we say.

Good luck!

How is your beast. I have heard and have been told that the 04 4.8is have more problems than the 05/06. What's your opinion. How is your baby holding up?

By the way guys the dealer I spoke to was where the previous owner took it for service the last 4 years. Contacted them today and the last owner took it there since 2008. They installed the Dinan parts in 2010. They are not selling the car. They just gave me history on the car. The car may be going there for the ppi.

And yes thanks in advance for everyone's opinions and advice. Greatly appreciated.

I have no idea if that is the case or not.

If you care to read some of my experiences, check here:

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...-search-x.html


Things I can remember off the top of my head:
- One front air strut went bad (replaced both with Arnott units)
- Original BMW battery failed after 5 years (replaced with after market battery)
- Recently had a cracked coolant reservoir tank (replaced with dealer item)
- Recently experiencing some intermittent slippage during hard acceleration shifts from 3-4. Took it to the shop to get rebuilt and the shop could not reproduce and did not want to rebuild. 99.9 percent of the time acts normally.

EDIT: After going through my thread, it was serviced around 18 months after purchase.

(Actual prices charged)
2 Front lower control arms ($292)
Replace both control arms ($179)
2 Ball joints ($55 each)
2 Control Arm Bushings ($104)
2 CV boot kits ($73)
Replace Outer Boots ($269)
Wheel Alignment ($79)
Cabin Filter ($33)
Oil Filter Kit ($13)
Mobil 1 Oil ($56)
Oil Change ($20)

Total parts = $683
Total labor = $547 (I think they mentioned at least 6 hours to do all the work)
Shop Supplies, Tax, Etc = $83
Grand Total = $1,310


Currently, we have 88,766 miles and looks like this:
http://thumbnails62.imagebam.com/187...f187003056.jpg


I feel our X has been very good to us.

I keep going back to the 4.6is. there is a silver 4.6is for sale with low miles In excellent condition. Should I wait and look for the imola red which i would prefer with low miles (may never find it)or settle for a silver with low miles. Silver is nice. I may never find the imola with low miles. I know it is personal preference, but my wife doesn't want to hear it anymore.

Low mileage is hard to find. Imola is hard to find.

People don't want to make the "wrong" decision but there really isn't one. Its all in how comfortable you are with your decision. If you don't have the patience to wait for the Imola (for however long that may be) then grab the silver one. As long as you can see yourself driving it every day without saying "eww, its silver" then you'll be alright. If anything but Imola is a dealbreaker then ...

How many low mileage, ANY color 4.6s have you come across in your search?

I wanted a silver one originally and ended up with the Lemans Bue. I don't have any regrets.

I like the silver. I think it would be easier to maintain the paint. I have two black BMWs. Love black and hate it. I came across few, three low mile samples under 50,000 mi. Black, silver and imola. Imola is cross country and don't really want to buy sight unseen plus it's on the high side. It's just that imola really pops and looks great on the road.

Got to agree on the imola red! I was lucky to find my 2004 4.8is and have no regrets, either. Love the power of the V8!

I just purchased a 4.6is, 83k miles on the clock.

Changed spark plugs, ignition coils.. brake,transmission & engine oils (a big service basically)
Getting new brake discs and pads next week... the dealer I bought it from will be buying me a a new steering spindle and hydro box as he did tell me those needed changing. I could feel it when I test drove. Car had been sitting for a while. I also have the 'lurch' issue only when in automatic mode. This could be a simple transmission software update.

'Trans Failsafe mode' popped up on my dash last week.. my mechanic told me he might have done something and thankfully purchased a ABS/Speed sensor as he believes he might have 'struck' something when detailing the underpart of the car. Car is fine now..

It's been nothing but fun and games the past month since I've had it... love the power. I am definitely going for traditional coils and springs over the air suspension though when i get the $$$ .. :)

Awesome. Congrats!!!

Congrats Sokm. I also recently purchased. Mine is an imola red 4.8is though. Where are the pictures of yours? ;)

Thanks:) Haven't figured out how to shrink iPhone images so that they can upload... it always tells me the image is too big :(