Requesting advice from the A\C guru's on here
 

My passenger side a\c is not blowing nearly as cold as the driver side... dealer telling me I have a bad evaporator and wants $2,100 to replace the evaporator unit. Sounds like BS to as from what little I know about the a/c how would the driver side be blowing cold if the evaporator needed replacing?

I'm thinking it might just need an a/c recharge and am researching if that is something I can do myself... What say Outpost guru's??

Thanks a bunch... btw I have a 2005 4.4 with 85k miles...

might be one for each but i really dont know

hands down you can bet with closed eyes that the part is probably 1/3 to 1/4 the cost of the quote from the Stealership

if you're handy and can locate the part it's probably a DIY but again i dont know

I'm sure the DIY guys on here will chime in on this

God Luck

Take it to an AC shop to diagnose, evacuate the freon, and fill to spec with new oil. Sounds like you are low. Very common on dual climate control cars to have one side blow colder than the other when freon is low.

Did they say why? Is it leaking?

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yes. they stated it was leaking... since its under pressure I don't understand how enough refrigerant could remain to get and keep the driverside cold...

could be the valve that opens for the other zone... there was a thread on here before i seen that...


i have that problem myself... i have the driver vent and left side center vent blowing cold while the right one blows hot and the other zones (passenger and rear) are very very weak.....

and at the lowest possible setting when its on....sometimes it will make a hissing noise... weird

what i tried to do is recharge the system.... i got it done the right way with the gauges and the scale...etccc..... and it has been tested for leaks.... no leaks....


This could possibly be the final resistor? common thing i heard...
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NO AC- because BMW to complicated ///M
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AC leaks can be very small and could take an extended period to leak out all the refrigerant. If the evaporator is leaking, you likely have lost enough refrigerant in the entire system that, for what ever reason, you don't have enough to cool both sides.

Alex you need someone better with AC...
And strobes!


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You are low on freon, the question is why, only two reasons to be low, a leak or someone let out some freon. I bet you have a leak. I had the same problem. I recharged it a few times but the problem returned. I finally replaced the evaporator and no mare leaks. Did it myself, it not easy, the dash has to be removed. $2100 sounds about right for someone to do it. Here is a link to my DIY http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...ement-diy.html

My Ac stopped working today. It's just hot air. Does anyone have a diagram on how
The Ac system runs?

Its not complex. Just follow the lines.
Remember they make a loop.

The a/c system in a X5 takes less than 1 lb of refrigerant. After about 7 years, it will leak out an maximum of 30 grams per year. So it would be low by about .46lbs. When the refrigerant is low, the driver side will blow colder than the passenger side, due to the design of the dual zone heater system. The first time a system is found low, and is opened up for the first time, there should never be a diagnosis given right away, unless the leak is evident, audible or visually. The system should be evacuated and placed in a vacuum, oil dye added, and recharged to spec. The next time the a/c system is not blowing cold again, a pair of uv glasses and black light should be used to see where the oil dye is leaking out of. If a leak is present, the a/c should start to blow warm with in a year of the recharge.

If the system has never been recharged before, it should be done first before a proper diagnosis can be performed.

Thanks KC.. I did have the system evacuated and recharged... it was down around a half pound so that lines up with what you said. It's blowing artic cold both sides now... I'm thinking about turning off the freezer in my garage just keeping the X running and storing meat and ice cream in there. We'll see how long it lasts and whether or not I have a leak.. driver side has always blown cold and passenger side has been blowing warmer for quite a while now.. if its leaking its one slow leak...

My mechanic says a common problem is the Receiver Drier/Accumulator and it needs to be replaced at about 90K miles along with freon recharge.

The part isn't expensive.

Experts?

The receiver/drier doesn't wear out and is not a maintenance item.

Only replaced if:
it is leaking
and it is recommended to replace it anytime the system is opened (for replacement of another component)

Sorry if I wasn't so clear. He didn't say it wears out but rather it gets full of particle material...

What we call "smog" in LA.

My A/C is working, but not like a few months ago. It used to blow very chilly air, a minute or so after starting. Now, it takes 5-10 minutes to blow moderately cold air. Had the freon drained and refilled at a local service shop and they said the system isn't leaking, but I don't have a lot of confidence in this place. Not likely I will use them again, but they were convenient at the time.

The drier is not a wear part. It should never have to be replaced on a x5. Even if the system is opened for more than 24 hrs. The drier is an insert on all x5s. During a certain production period, the condenser was redesigned and the old drier insert is no longer available. If you must replace it, the entire condenser must be replaced. So inexpensive? I don't think so.

If you can explain how smog can get into a closed system, the guys at NASA have a job waiting for you.

I'm certainly no expert... and often confused. I did a google search and found this:

The air conditioning receiver drier is better named refrigerant storage device because, in essence, that is what it does. Beyond storing the excess refrigerant, the air conditioning receiver drier also houses a desiccant bag. This might vary depending on the design. The dessicant feature of the air conditioning receiver drier keeps debris and moisture out of the compressor. It serves as the "air filter" for the air conditioning system.

Air Conditioning Receiver Drier - Discount Prices!

The plan is to replace the part and recharge the system. I will report back later on the final result.

okay, i would seriously reconsider replacing it. but if you do remove it, you will see the dessicant soaked in oil, and maybe green dye in it if its been properly worked on before. you will see no debris.

The drier removes moisture from the coolant (R-134a) In the AC system. There should be no reason to replace it unless you have had the system open for over 24hrs or replaced a major part like the compressor. You said you had the coolant removed and replaced but is not cooling as well now. My guess is you have a leak, find a good AC specialist to look at it, small leaks can be hard to find. Also if you have doubts about the guys that replaced you coolant, you may want your coolant checked because there is rash of counterfeit R-134a being used. It contains R-40 which will corrode aluminum and is explosive.

I´m having this problem since a few months. At each 4 months, the right side blows normal air, not cold air. I did 3 recharges and leak test. Nothing. After recharge the system blows really cold freezing air. Three months later, hot air again on the right side is back... Yesterday, the system stopped. None of cold air. Just a little noise could be heard but the system blows hot air. I take the car out to the AC shop and, guess what? I saw a fluorescent green/yellow oil on the garage floor.
On shop, they do recharge the oil/gas again to make a leak test, but told me that the evaporator is leaking. He saw a drain tube is leaking this yellow/green oil on the middle of the car. Anyone has a tip?
My car has the extended warranty, I´ll take my chances at dealership.

Fingers crossed.

Christiano, you have a leak in your evaporator, R-138a and compressor oil are leaking out. The Compressor oil is what is leaking out the drain tube. Try the extended warranty other wise it will cost about $2100 to get it fixed right. Good luck.

I´ll try, for sure.
Do you know if they have to disassemble the entire panel to change it?

The entire dash comes out. See this DIY for more info. http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...ement-diy.html

OMG!!!

+1... I'm handy with a screw driver but &%^&%! That is one involved repair job! I will have to let the dealer take my money if it comes down to it... I think I could cure cancer faster than I would finish swapping out my evaporator per those instructions (which were fantastic btw to whomever posted).

Guys it is really not as crazy as you think. Yea a lot has to come off, but it is just a matter of removing and putting it back. As long as you stay organized, you will be fine. Dealer will rape you on this by the way.

how exactly will the dealer rape you on this? lets see, you have to take a bunch of stuff out, and then replace the part, and then re-install everything. i dont see how you relate that to being raped? i would say somewhere around $2650.00 to replace the evaporator is fair at the dealer. any more is being raped, and any less is a discount.

BMW KSD2 says 76FRU to REMOVE the heater box, and then additional 16FRU to REPLACE the evaporator.

total is 11.5 Hours Customer Pay. @ $?? dealer labor rate
part is $683.62 + local tax(do not purchase OEM BEHR evaporator(made in china), $23.80 + tax for coolant, and $12 for 1 lb of r-134a.

Not a difficult job, nor does it require ANY special tools. The DIY vs Dealer issue basically boils down to if the owner is willing to pay roughly 1/5th the value of the X to repair a $600 part.

With over 30 yrs of vehicle ownership I have found that NOBODY is as attentive to detail as the owner, I have personally seen more damage done to my/my family/my friends vehicles while at the dealership for service. Curb rashed wheels (Walker Ford in C'water FL had to drop the $s for 2 wheels on my old M'stang Cobra, ALWAY walk my vehicle with SA and FULL written damage report at drop off), dents, scratches, parts LEFT OFF, broken fasteners/trim pcs, leather seats and door liners scuffed/torn, all while in the care of the "professionals"!!!

Kenyon Dodge (now Autoway) needed to keep my Viper over the weekend to replace a coolant crossover tube gasket under warranty. Went to P/U on the following Mon to find over 250 miles where put on it, rear tires were BALD and the front was COVERED with the guts of the bugs that did not come off with the "hose off" it got after the party weekend!

IMHO, If the vehicle is not under warranty/CPO this repair is DIY, ESPECIALLY if you find the $2700 dealer price offensive.

I know you work for a dealer so I will leave that be. But what is so hard to understand about the dealer raping you? Maybe it is the fact that I can buy a 2002 4.4, for about the price of three of those heater charges from the dealer. It is all relative to the value of the car.

It comes down to how much you are willing to pay. In my book, pushing $3k for a dash removal, is insane. Yea there are times for the markup, but you don't need anything as far as special training or tools to do this job. An indy will accomplish the same for a third. What you don't think an indy can do it? I can do it. I've done it. But so does converting a car from Automatic to a 6 speed. Or an engine swap. All doable DIY, in my own garage.

As far as calculating hours by the book. Dealer told me 4 hours to change each of my motor mounts. My Indi, did both in 2. I paid $170 with tip, and other work was done. Either BMW techs are very slow, or very under trained.

Again, might depend on dealer, mine for example in Brooklyn, suck the fattest donkey balls. When I go to Bloomfield, it is a completely different experience. But that is an hour drive for me.

The service department at a dealership and every indy shop works hourly. Meaning you pay for the time at a set hourly rate. Then you also have to pay for the parts.
So, not quite sure you think the "mark up" is. Parts mark up is different subject from paying for labor. BMW dealers are forced to use real BMW parts, those have set prices. Yes they are going to be higher, but the quality is higher and much better controlled than aftermarket parts

If you can't do it yourself you got to pay some one else to.

Removing a complete dash is quite the daunting task for most backyard mechanics.

And the dealer service adviser just looked up the times for each mount and added them together. The service adviser does not know how to work on a vehicle or realize there is overlapping labor.

True, but don't forget, I can get dealer parts, for way the hell cheaper than the dealer will sell to me when working on my car. Just doing that, saves a couple of dollars.

And my dealer, by my house, the rate is 145 an hour. My indy, is 75. The dealer needs those labor rates to keep the whole building working. And indy doesn't have so much overhead.

Noob question here. If I emptied the AC system and replaced the AC condenser (under the dash), do I need to add any refrigerant oil?
If I do, where do I add it?

That is added when you recharge the system. I suspect you changed your evaporator up under the dash. Did you have a leak?

No leak, believe it or not just preventative maintenance!
Was changing front carpet so changed it as well.

Just don't know if I need to add oil and where to

You should have the PAG oil added when the recharge happens. If my memory is right, it's 2oz of oil. This should be done by the shop that evacuated it for you. I sure hope you didn't just vent the R134a to the atmosphere. If you did shortcut it...have it recharged at an authorized AC shop.

Anytime you have the system open you have to have it evacuated afterwards to get any moisture out and in my case the condenser had to be changed as there is 30% chance that the oil in the system will slug it..

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The reason for oil slugging is guys adding oil with the recharge without measuring the oil in the compressor. The oil level in the compressor needs to measured and then oil to be added calculated from that. Adding the standard amount for the component replaced(2 oz. for evaporator for example) is close enough only if there is the right amount of oil in the system to begin with.

Thanks I understand I need to find an AC specialist to evacuate moisture and then measure oil in the compressor and add the proper amount. Looks like you gotta do it right not to screw it up. Hopefully the specialist doing it will know what he's doing!

To test a system, have someone remove all the R134 safely. Next, replace the valve stem cores! A $2 part will ruin a system. It's the weakest point. Over time, the valve stem ports will leak. I've repaired so many systems by replacing the core stems. Most of them were quoted entire A/C system rebuilds. Only have a few did need rebuilding only because of compressor failure. Once all the R134 is out, put vacuum on the system. Vacuum from 45 min to 1:30 min. Close the hose valves and turn off the vacuum. Don't remove the vacuum/pump hose. It should hold vacuum down to 26 Hg. If vacuum goes above 24 Hg, I start looking for a leak. If it holds below 24 Hg for 30 min or more, I charge it up.

You can buy a cheap pump at Harbor Freight or Craigslist. Hoses are cheap too. Anyone can test the system. Replacing parts takes more skill and time. I learned from a seasoned mechanic. It's the one skill he taught me that has save me the most money.

This is not related to an X5, but is related to a bimmer. My daughter's e46.

We repaired her car after it was involved in a front end accident. Basically replaced everything up front in the engine bay. After our indy mechanic put it all back together, he charged the A/C and it worked as it should for a time. Then nothing. This thread got me thinking about the system being open for a long time. Over a year. This related directly to the discussion about replacing the drier/condenser.

This is my question: If the system was open for that long, do the driers actually go bad? And could it have worked for a short time?

We took it to a local A/C shop that does great work and they diagnosed it as the condenser leaking by way of interference of the aux. fan. This is highly unlikely as we replaced EVERYTHING up front. Including the core support and all mounting brackets. My daughter and I did all of the work ourselves and we are not new to bimmers or DIY. We were there when the mechanic first fired it up and there was no sound of interference with anything?

Basically I am asking if we should be looking at the drier? Cheap part to throw at it and would be the last of the system we didn't replace.

Thanks, all!

What are pressure readings? Even good shops don't replace valve core stems. Why not? Because the hoses connected. I've been burned on a few systems where valve cores leaked after disconnecting hoses. Even if they didn't show signs of leaks. It's the weakest point on a A/C stem. Remove the caps. Check for oil slight pressure swish when the cap is removed. It it worked, I would suspect a leak somewhere.

Should we start there? The valve cores? Again, cheap parts to throw at it.

Unfortunately, I didn't think to ask for the readings and it was not included on the report. The system is discharged as of now. Can the readings still be gotten? We have a Foxwell scanner. :dunno:

If it's discharged, go ahead and replace the valve cores. You can get the tool for $2 at Orielly's. Put a vacuum on it. Go 45 minutes minimum. Close the vacuum valves and leave vac hose connected. If it holds 26 Hg for more than 30 min, the leak was probably the valve cores. If it does not get below 24 Hg, a leak is somewhere. It's worth a try. I've save several systems by replacing the cores.

Where are those valve cores located?

You can find a picture on this post.
The low side is across the exhaust manifold. The high port is up high by the radiator.

Right inside of the charge ports

Outstanding advice. I'll take it to my brother in law who has the tools and report back. I would be extremely surprised if it is the condenser.

And does anyone have any insight on leaving the system open for well over a year and what the ramifications of that may be? Drier goes bad? :dunno:

If the system was open for a year, I would replace the drier. By open you do mean an open connection? No valve core port caps? I've done a few that had non working A/C systems for weeks and months. If vacuum held, I charged them up. If they leaked again, then I would replace parts.
I'm not sure how hard it is on an X5. I don't have to worry about A/C work for a while. Do the vacuum test first. If it holds 24 Hg or more, swap the drier and fill it.