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DSC Internal Sensor?
The DSC/xDrive (4x4) light came on and its a solid yellow. I also get the SLS Inactive message on the Check Control Alphanumeric Display.
http://thumbnails86.imagebam.com/208...2208160824.jpg Tried pressing the DSC button on the console to turn the DSC light off - no change. Pulled, checked and re-installed fuses in the back and glove compartment - no change. BTW ... there's a 30amp fuse in the back panel, looking at the panel its the last one all the way to the right, that only has one connector on the female side - unlike the others which have two. I think I found another one IIRC that was marked "trailer socket" and it also had one connector in the fuse block. Weird. Anyways, scanned it with the GT1. Got a "5F0C DSC sensor, internal" fault in memory that was not selectable or deletable. http://thumbnails41.imagebam.com/208...3208160837.jpg Went through the Test plan and got these screens. http://thumbnails21.imagebam.com/208...3208160739.jpg http://thumbnails81.imagebam.com/208...0208160757.jpg Based on those screens, I interpret it as the internal sensor fault was found in the DSC module not a separate sensor that could be replaced. So, before I buy a DSC module I want to see what the forum has to say. The external sensors are a Brake Pressure sensor, (Four) Wheel Speed sensors, (Two) Rotation Rate sensors, and a Steering Angle sensor. There's also a DSC Hydraulic unit but it doesn't seem to be related to any of these at first glance. Maybe I should disconnect the battery for about 1hr and see if that helps. SOLUTION: Replace Rotation Rate (yaw) sensor under the center console. Old sensor (discontinued) on the left and made in Germany. New sensor on the right and made in Hungary. After replacement, the DSC/xDrive (4x4) light and SLS Inactive message went away. I did not have to code/program anything. http://thumbnails102.imagebam.com/21...a210207060.jpg |
sound like your dcs module is going south...time sent it out to get it repair.mine was that way.i end up bought the new one installed and recode.
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I know it needs ZCS coding but I'm not sure if I need the dealer to do that or if its simply reading existing module info. and transferring it to the new one. Any details would help. Maybe I should just call you instead. LOL! |
Isn't the DSC module same as the ABS module?... The ABS module is held by 6 torx screws (T15?) in the coolant overflow tank area, can be removed, car can be driven for no more than 200 km (or is it 200 miles?), while the unit is being repaired (about $200), and then reinstalled, no recoding needed since it is the original unit...
If, however, the DSC module is not the same as the ABS module, then I have no idea... Also, the fact that the EHC is acting up at the same time - is it coincidence, or is it related? |
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It may be related because I got the SLS intermittently before. Not sure. |
After a quick search I found these places that can rebuild the module.
Autoecu.com ModuleMaster.com, Moscow, ID USA I'll keep researching the issue for now and look for other rebuilders too. |
And yes, to answer your question the ABS module is also the same unit that controls the ASC or DSC depending what year your car is. It's very easy to remove.
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I had it repaired twice on the 4.6iS - once it was in Moscow, when the -40 degrees got the best of the thing, and the guy repaired it while i was waiting (I flirted with a nice girl at the little coffee shop next to his shop... I am sure KGB just planted that coffee shop with that girl to chit chat with me, as she was insanely beautiful, and did not mind talking to old, fat guy!!!!)... Ater he fixed it, somehow my ODO started to read in km, instead of 120K miles, it was like 200K kms... then, after few drive-arounds, the thing resetted back to miles... weird... I just chalk it up to many other weird things happening there... lol...
second time i fixed it here in the US, i got a repair service off the ebay, with a lifetime warranty, but never had a chance to test if they fixed it right or not, as the engine went to the engine heaven (and the rest of the car to the car hell!!!)... these guys actually followed up on me, by calling me, and asking if everything was ok... when you remove those torxes, be careful as not to strip the heads - it cost me $70 to get the last screw out, as it got stuck... You remove the left headlight, and wiggle your way in there - i also used "snake" adapter to get to some of the torx screws... |
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Well, just checked the rebuilder with lifetime warranty. They only work on 5.7 modules (2003 and below). :( BMW DSCIII documentation says: The X5 is equipped with DSC III for its stability control system. The components are the same as the DSC III system (version 5.7) currently installed in the E38/E39 vehicles. However the software and programming are changed to allow for new functions associated with all wheel drive and off-road use. |
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before doing the module, check the speed sensors - they "report" to the ABS module plug, and the pinout is somewhere on this forum... there are four sensors, one at each corners, each one is responsible for a certain function but all come to that plug... you will need a multimeter with the ability to test diodes, as those sensors are "hall effect" diodes... worst case scenario, you can use an OhmMeter - do you know how to test a diode with an OhmMeter? best case scenario, if you have an O-scope, and can turn a wheel - then you can see the square wave from the sensor...
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If a wheel speed sensor was possible, it should have set a wheel speed sensor fault code.
I would try the hard reset at the battery. It is worth a try. |
I had the same fault ..5foc. Read the ecm with INPA and it was a yaw sensor that was at fault thats located under the rear cupholders. Try to use INPa and see what you get..i almost bought the abs module as well until i decided to reread the code w/ another scanner.
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Twins, is that the only error you get on the dash? Does it clear on startup, and then come back?
According to this, if it was a speed sensor, you would get the specific error. http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...ht-lit-up.html The code really means DSC internal. I don't think you can get any more accurate than that. But JCM3 might be on to something. Same year X, so maybe. |
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Xoutpost is so valuable. :) I did think about those rotation/acceleration sensors maybe were going bad and maybe that's related to the SLS inacive message too. One of the EHC messages is "Can bus message incorrect". So, maybe the EHC knows there's a problem with DSC via that sensor. At the same time, I saw that sensor under the console in the BMW docs and was hoping NOT to hear what you're saying because I heard the console is a bitch to remove. LOL! |
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Yeah, I'll look do some more research and try to find out more about those sensors JCM3 is talking about. When I looked more into getting the DSC/ABS module rebuilt, the messages were more ABS related. They would get the ABS light or a related ABS fault - I have none of those. So .... |
First thing I though when I saw this was the shitty plastic gear in the Transfer Case actuator. But I got way more lights, and the self level error. Flipped the gear, been fine since.
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For now, rotational sensor and/or DSC/ABS module are front runners. |
I just disconnected the battery for 1 hr. and no change.
Was thinking that maybe it would clear the light and SLS message only for it to return after a short time later. Nope, both conditions are still there immediately after connecting the battery. Now trying to figure out a part number of the sensor without disassembling the console. I think I'll just have to do it so I'll search for a good thread on how best to remove the console. |
Link that thread here. There have been multiple times I have tried to do find something as well.
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the dsc sensor has died. I will look up exact location for you when i am at work and see if i can print out and scan the repair info on console removal. the self leveling fault is related to the dsc system since they share the info from the dsc/abs unit. The can bus is not sending any info to other control units. once can bus has started to talk to everyone again the leveling system will work again
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Once JCM3 said he had the same exact error and it was the yaw sensor, I was pretty convinced. There are supposed to be two Yaw sensors but I'm assuming its the one under the console like his. Thanks again for your input. :thumbup: |
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http://www.xoutpost.com/articles/x5/...le-bmw-x5.html Also, I read Tom bragging about how he could remove the center console in 10 minutes. I'll post any tips I gather from him. |
Normally with the dsc/abd module you get the abs light on as well. In INPA you can look at all the sensors in real time and look at the wheel speed sensors and yaw. All my speed sensors were working but the yaw was reading 0 output. To take out the console really does take me less than 10 minutes.
1) Unscrew one screw (near gas pedal(drivers)/12V outlet(pass) on each side of the front of the console (carpeted trim pieces) 2) pull the carpeted trim pieces out..they are just clipped in) 3) couple crews behind the carpeted trim pieces hold the console down 4) pull out the shifter leather cover and gate trim (they snap in) (the actual shifter knob can stay in place) (disconnect two harnesses) 5) raise the e-brake to highest position 6) Take out emergency flasher/door lock button (pops out) (screw in located under this) 7) Take out plastic bin under arm rest (pull right out) two screws under it needs to come out 8) One screw on each side under the carpet trim near rear cupholders on each side (cupholders/armrest can all stay in place) 9) now pull up and towards the rear of the truck on each side of the console by the under the arm rest..you should be able to pull the rear up about 8-9 inches the front will stay semi connected) yaw sensor is located at the bottom under the cupholders secured by two 10mm bolts. |
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I don't have INPA and I haven't used the GT1 to test my sensors. However, I'm confident along with everyones input its that yaw sensor. I'll pull the console and have a look at the part number when I have a chance. Hopefully I can source it fairly easily. I'll ask Craig from Bloomfield and see what he can do for me. |
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I have no ABS light and two people confirmed that it probably is that yaw sensor. Good enough for me. :D Thanks for the offer though and hope to see you at Mpact! :thumbup: |
I went to go out and remove the center console. I pickup my toolbox but find that I did not lock the trays in.
Frustration at myself! :slap: :banghead: :angryfire http://thumbnails79.imagebam.com/208...2208421365.jpg |
good thing you don't have a rain drain there!!!! :)
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Could have been worse.
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http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/s...orbmw/DSC2.png
http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/s...orbmw/DSC1.png here is the repair instruction on how to get the dsc sensor out |
to get the cup holder out you do need to remove both side carpet panels from the console to access the screws
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Thanks DoctorBMW!
I noticed the comment about needing to adjust the rotation-rate sensor in the Service function of DIS. I will make sure to do that. Hopefully, it will be pretty straight forward. |
Accessing the rotation-rate sensor
Yesterday, I finally got around to opening up the center console to get the part number for the rotation-rate sensor.
I didn't need to remove the console completely. Just loose enough to tilt up to take a pic. When it comes time to replace it, I think I can get away with it this way too. I just followed the write-up found here at Xoutpost in the Articles & How To's sections. #1 - On the front carpeted side panels, remove two phillips head screws (one on each side) under the dash area. #2 - Grab the front carpeted side panel and pull straight out, away from the console. They are just held on with plastic push-in grommets. On the passenger side you will have to disconnect a harness. http://thumbnails51.imagebam.com/208...7208442233.jpg http://thumbnails81.imagebam.com/208...0208442222.jpg #3 - There are no screws holding the rear carpeted side panels so just pull them out. Front and rear side panels. You can see the plastic push-in grommets that hold the side panels. http://thumbnails20.imagebam.com/208...f208442258.jpg #4 - At the rear of the console you will find several phillips head screws on each side. Only remove the BOTTOM ones closest to the floor. One on each side. http://thumbnails62.imagebam.com/208...e208442289.jpg #5 - At the middle/front of the console, there are two screws on each side that hold the console. Remove those four screws. http://thumbnails66.imagebam.com/208...b208442573.jpg #6 - Open the center armrest and remove the plastic bin. There's a notch in the bin to grab and just pull straight up. Remove the two phillips head screws at the bottom. http://thumbnails53.imagebam.com/208...7208442322.jpg http://thumbnails38.imagebam.com/208...1208442350.jpg #7 - Remove the shifter boot and bezel. Easiest way was to grab the boot (closest to the hazard switch) and pull up. The whole assembly will just pop out. http://thumbnails52.imagebam.com/208...8208442371.jpg #8 - (EDIT: Step not required since complete console removal is not required. Only follow this step if removing the console) Underneath the shifter bezel, there are three things to disconnect. The black connector you just squeeze and pull. The white and purple have center tabs that need to be pushed in before you can remove them. http://thumbnails63.imagebam.com/208...c208442393.jpg http://thumbnails41.imagebam.com/208...4208442447.jpg http://thumbnails20.imagebam.com/208...a208442468.jpg http://thumbnails86.imagebam.com/208...d208442482.jpg #9 - Remove the Hazard & Central lock switch. Use something slim to just pry it out. Disconnect the switch. The remove a screw directly under the switch's location that holds down the console (sorry no pic). http://thumbnails67.imagebam.com/208...e208442511.jpg http://thumbnails79.imagebam.com/208...0208442521.jpg http://thumbnails57.imagebam.com/208...0208442541.jpg #10 - (EDIT: Step not required since complete console removal is not required. Only follow this step if removing the console) At the middle of the console, lower driver side, there is a harness connected to the console. Remove the harness from the console by simply rotating it and it will pop out. Then unclip the lower harness. http://thumbnails60.imagebam.com/208...6208560338.jpg That was enough to pull up the rear of the console to access the rotation-rate sensor. http://thumbnails22.imagebam.com/208...8208442612.jpg http://thumbnails48.imagebam.com/208...3208442663.jpg Markings on it say BOSCH, 0 265 005 285 and 34.52-6 762 235. Ordered from Craig of BMW of Bloomfield. $285 shipped and just waiting to receive it. |
Awesome pics and writeup. Good job. Let us know when you get it in.
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Nice write up twinspoppa! I hope this is the source of your issue so you can take care of it. I'll be following this thread closely since I have the same symptoms. Except I only have the 4x4 solid yellow light. No GT1 to confirm its a module or a speed sensor. It could be either? I plan to bring it to a BMW shop to read the codes first. Have not gotten around to do this yet. Wishing you luck!
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Well, Craig says that exact part has been discontinued. The new replacement part is $60 more so now its $350 total.
Meanwhile, I went into the DIS Service funtion to see if there was a test for that specific yaw/rotation sensor and no luck. Either it would say no such test or just lead me to the same test plan as before. Its probably because I don't know enough on how to use the GT1 properly. LOL! Still waiting on the part. |
DSC Internal Sensor fault - SOLVED
Received the updated part.
http://thumbnails104.imagebam.com/21...b210206938.jpg http://thumbnails102.imagebam.com/21...9210206941.jpg Old on the left (Germany) vs. New on the right (Hungary) http://thumbnails102.imagebam.com/21...a210207060.jpg Unfortunately, there's a bracket/support right above the sensor that doesn't allow enough clearance to simply unbolt and replace it. :banghead: Step 1 - Remove the two nuts holding down the sensor (10mm). http://thumbnails22.imagebam.com/208...8208442612.jpg Step 2 - Driver side at the rear of the console, remove a torx head screw. Couldn't find the right size torx so used an allen key instead. http://thumbnails103.imagebam.com/21...c210207004.jpg Step 3 - Again, driver side. Remove the same size torx screw on the bracket support that's above the sensor. It's at a weird angle and the head is facing towards the front of the vehicle. WARNING - This step will take longer than all the steps COMBINED. There's not much room and I could barely do 1/4 turn at a time. Can you say knuckle buster. Also, be careful not to drop your tool because there's pit near there and it will go underneath the carpet. http://thumbnails103.imagebam.com/21...d210207015.jpg You don't need to remove anything on the passenger side. The torx head screw on the actual bracket/support is hard to get to because the airduct is directly above it. http://thumbnails103.imagebam.com/21...3210207064.jpg Step 4 - Back to the driver side. Carefully pull up on the offending bracket and work the sensor out. The bracket will bend as its made of plastic but be careful not to break it. http://thumbnails102.imagebam.com/21...3210207024.jpg Step 5 - Disconnect the sensor from the harness. Press on the release that's only on one side. Replace it with the new one and reverse the steps to reinstall. You're done. Afterwards, you should not have the DCS/xDrive light and SLS Inactive message. http://thumbnails104.imagebam.com/21...0210207028.jpg http://thumbnails104.imagebam.com/21...8210207033.jpg * Tips for re-installing * Put the lower torx head screw first (loose) before trying to fit the one on the bracket/support. This will help to align it when you're trying to thread it in place. When putting back the console you will have to align the airducts that are in the bin and on the floor. Best way is to first pull the console a little bit towards the rear of the vehicle. Align the one in the bin first. Then push the console forward making sure that the connection between the one in the bin and the floor is good. The one in the bin should go inside the one in the floor. |
Congradulations. I am glad you got it all done. So no more errors? Scan and reset with GT1, I am sure the fault will still be there.
Also a suggestion for anyone reading. This tool has saved my knuckles countless times. I recommend everyone have at least the straight one. I have ones that are bent also. A screw gun driver will fit, and make an extension for you. You can basically put any bit into it and you have a ratchet drive screw driver. 9-41469 Craftsman Screwdriver Set, Reversible Offset Ratchet 5pc |
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In GT1 CANbus error (SLS inactive) was not present anywhere. The DSC sensor error showed up in the first screen after a Short Test - but DSC module does not show having an error on the screen where you delete faults. If I run a test plan on the DSC error it proceeds to read the DSC module and says no fault read. If you run the short test, DSC module does NOT show an "X" indicating a problem in that module. I will try and clear it by turning/on off between deletes and/or try to find something in the function mode. Maybe its one of those errors that stay because its a clone GT1 - like that stupid BD fault (Brake Force distribution) that always shows but I cannot clear it and I have no way of clearing or even have a test plan. :dunno: There's a screen where it will show readings of the DSC sensor (rotation-rate) but I couldn't remember where I found it. I'll go back and look some other time. I was to eager to get done and stop from being eaten alive by the mosquitos! BTW .. you can bet that I did NOT completely tighten the hard to get to screw. I just threaded it in enough to stay in place and fuggetboutit! :rofl: |
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Tighten the screw properly or the box will warp.
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there. I read few thread about to calibrate the wheel angle sensor after installing a new. By the way, I don't have calibration tools and the dealer charging $150.00 to calibrate. I appreciate for all input. |
Just changed the lateral sensor !
:cool:Well - with the help of the above pics I just changed my Lateral Acceleration Sensor - same part no. as in above pics. Thank you for great pictures !
4x4 warning yellow warning had come on and the usual SLS suspension inactive :confused: I had code 5F08 (Lateral Acceleration Sensor Plausibility) And as a result 0032 (Can bus coms) on the air suspension - apparently the SLS de-activates when the 'Lateral' module dies. BMW wanted £380 + VAT for the part (£468)....... no chance of that - so I bought a guaranteed one from e-bay £39 Fitted myself - however I would just like to say, this is horrible job. Never want to go there again :wow: Anyway - 3 hours later the job is done - the moment I plugged up the replacement the code disappeared (4x4 warning went out) & SLS re-activated. Great result but not much fun! Best Malc :rofl: |
Running out of options
Hi All,
Longtime lurker and first time poster; don't flame me too hard :) I have a 2001 4.4 X5 Neiman Marcus Edition with just over 75k miles. Car runs great but i have been chasing after an issue for about three months with no results yet. The speedometer will intermittenlty shut off and the Brake, ABS, and DSC lights come on. Most of the time this is caused by the left rear wheel speed sensor. Not having a scanning tool like i did with my Audi (VAG-COM), i took it to a local indy shop with good reviews. The indy shop installed a new wheel speed senor and the fault returned. I found out later they installed the wrong part number, more on that later. Since the fault returned, they tried to repack the wheel bearing as well as installing and subsequently unistalled a new ABS module and instrument cluster as neither of those changed the fault from returning. The indy shop was baffled and surrendered the car back to me. When i picked the vehicle up, the ABS system was going nuts and i wasn't even able to drive the car around the block since the ABS system kept kicking in with the wrong part installed. I had the car flatbedded to a BMW dealership in hopes they could get to the bottom of the issue. They didn't. First time the vehicle went in they informed me the wrong part was installed as their was a model split and the correct part (34-52-6-756-380) would remedy the error. New part installed, the techs were satisfied and i picked up the vehicle. No less than 24 hours later, the symptoms of speedo, ABS, DSC, and Brake lights returned. I spoke with the service manager and he said to bring it back and they'll re-inspect. Upon the second trip to the BMW dealership, they believed that a stripped hole where the wheel speed sensor attaches to the bearing was causing the sensor to rattle under operation and cause an intermittent signal failure. A new wheel hub was installed and the fault returned once more, this time with the addition of the SLS Inactive light. I spoke with the shop foreman this time and he said he tried swapping the wheel speed sensors on the back two wheels and the fault didn't follow the newly installed part but stayed at the left rear wheel. He informed me he also checked all the wiring and used a multimeter to check the voltage, which were all within normal parameters when he cleared the vehicles faults. In speaking with the foreman and service manager, they said they felt "95% sure" that the real cause is the DSC Control Unit and the Control Unit for the ride height sensors as a new ride height sensor didn't remedy the SLS light. All said in done, i was quoted another $4,000 in addition to the $1,200 i spent for the new sensor and wheel hub. They gave me a list of faults, which are as follows: 00008C DME: Activation, map cooling 00001E DSC: Wheel-speed sensor, rear left, transmits no signal 0000BD IKE: Electronic brake-force distribution 000001 EHC: Ride-level sensor, left 000028 LCM: Light check module: fault stored S 0002 No communication possible with: Slide/tilt sunroof S 0039 No communication with: Cruise control The new DSC part the dealer gave me is 34-52-2-285-045 and the Ride Height Level Control Unit is 37-14-6-874-414. I have spent about $4k on the car in the last six months, some routine maintanence and the rest on this back and forth with the dealer, so i'm trying to determine what's next for our relationship. The easiest thing would be to get rid of it as-is and never look back. However, I'm hard-headed and want to see if this issue really is the straw that broke the camels back financially or if there is something i'm missing, like a DSC/ABS rebuild or yaw sensor. It could be the first shop had the right idea with the ABS sensor but the wrong wheel speed sensor wouldn't let the two work together correctly; hoping y'all can help me find out. Sorry for the book, but figured i'd give all the details i have to this point. Thank you in advance! |
Oh Boy!
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Hi Prospect25 - sounds like a right can of worms!
This one might be a bit out of my league... I am a bit like you i.e. when I had on-going problems it was tempting to let the beast go - however, in my case the perseverance paid off - I hope it does for you - I hate to give up eh! Having had the YAW failure (Lateral Acceleration Sensor) failure, this does not sound like that! Pls don't take my word for it but I also do not think that it is the Ride Height Level Control Unit - this may be locked out as a result of the root fault. The thing I do not understand here, is why on replacement of the Rear Left Wheel Sensor (or even swapping it with the right) still shows the same fault code. This could point to the DSC Control module - are you in USA?? Over here in UK there is a couple of workshops that can test (if removed of course) the DSC/ABS & re-build if req'd for a flat fee fraction of the new cost. Back to yours - there are lots of bits connected to the DSC (YAW, Streering angle Sensor, Wheel Spd sens, AGS - gearbox control) to name just a few not to mention 4 or 5 gadgets on the can-bus! Is there somewhere you can get the DSC checked out as this rear wheel thing sounds inconsistent? This is probably a really stupid question - but is your battery good on volts? My battery went low at one point and it caused havoc with loads of systems in the car... just checking! I used to work in industrial electronics (Audio & A/V now) and I have to say some of these auto electrical faults drive me nuts! Let us know how you get on! I would be interested to see what the others on here write - there are some great guys on here who understand this stuff back to front! Attached is a pic - hopefully attached - may not be the same as yours but gives you an idea of what is connected. V best malc |
The hunt continues
Malc,
Thanks for your thoughtful response. I personally haven't checked the volts on the battery, but will certainly do that as a first check! I imagine both the indy shop and dealership would have done so, but you know what they say about assumptions.... Reading through a few threads I also think the root issue, likely DSC, is causing the SLS inactive light to come on as well, so will take it one step at a time. Your diagram of all the components that tie into the DSC is a bit, well, intimidating! But when broken down into each individual component seems very straight forward. I am in the USA and have seen a few threads who have used shops to repair and return their modules. MyAirBags.com has a repair and return service for $169 and offers 24 hour turn-around. However, I can't find a DIY removal and reinstall writeup for the life of me! If i could, i think i would give this a shot as it's cheaper than the alternatives of losing a few thousand on selling it or giving the dealership a few thousand to throw parts at it. Open to any and all suggestions on what else to investigate based on the fault codes from the vehicle. Thanks all!! AJ |
Update!
Was able to remove the ABS module with relative ease and sent it off to MyAirbags.com to repair the module. The removal was made easy by removing the headlight and the coolant pump that is sitting right in front of the module. Removed with a T20 screwdriver and ratchets. Sent to MyAirbags.com and they repaired the module and sent it back within a week (not the 24 hours they claimed). Still happy with the return time and overall results. Upon installation of the module, the lights still came up. I drove the car for a bit and less than a quarter mile the lights all went away and i haven't had the intermittent speedo/lights issue for the last few days; rejoice!! I am still getting the SLS Inactive light but hoping my indy shop can scan and see what it is. If it's the ride height sensor module, i am going to just keep driving it as i replaced both airbags and ride height sensors in August and i know the system is fine. All in all very happy with the results and thankful i have XOutpost for all the info and support; thanks y'all!! AJ |
Nice one
Nice one AJ
Looks like that was the main problem then. :yikes: I have every confidence you will get rid the SLS problem now. It won't go away by itself - let us know which codes it is/was when you have it diagnosed eh! V best malc ;) |
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