Misfire on all cylinders on one side
 

I just purchased a 2000 X5 for a really good price because it has issues.

I changed the water pump.

It was originally throwing the codes P1421, P0300 & P0306

So I changed all of the spark plugs and the iginition coil for cylinder #6. The old spark plus had carbon build-up but nothing bad and no signs of oil on them.

I cleared the codes and now I'm getting P0300, P0305, P0306, P0307 & P0308.

The X5 still idles rough, but once I put in in drive and start driving, it drives like a dream until you stop at a light and it rough idles again. It's not about to shut off but a rough idle.

When the car is cold, there is a loud ping/clank sound coming from the left rear of the engine. almost as though you are hitting a wrench against metal. It happens once every 10 to 15 seconds and then goes away after the engine warms up.

In the first picture there I circled a hard plastic hose that I have no idea what it plugs into. Any clues?

In the second picture, the x5 came without the 'false firewall' that seperates the engine compartment from the fresh air vents area. it was also missing the plastic piece that goes on top of that. Does anyone know the part numbers for those.

Thanks a million in advance.

This morning (before heading off to work), I tried two tests to see if I could determine what was causing my multiple misfire codes for only one side of the engine.

1st) I took out the O2 sensor (before the catalytic convertor) and drove it without the O2 sensor to see if the catalytic convertor was bad. The X5 was still running rough and throwing the same codes. This must mean the catalytic convertor is working. if the rough idling issue had stopped, that would of meant the catalytic convertor was clogged and bad.

2nd) after putting the O2 sensor back in, I started the X5 and while it was running I removed the plug from each ignition coil (one at a time), to see if the idling of the engine would change. The engine idle didn't change. I believe the idle should of changed if the ignition coils were firing. So that must mean the coils are not firing as the codes suggest.

Tonight I will remove each ignition coil (one at a time) and the corresponding spark plug, keep the ignition coil connected to the power plug and have the spark plug connected to it as well. I will then have someone turn the igition on as I hold the threading part of the spark plug next to a good ground (-) on the car with the expected results being my ability to see the spark generate on the spark plug. If I don't see a spark, that would mean there is no fire going to the spark plug, which MAY mean the iginition coil isn't working.

Any advice?

One last thing, I sprayed my MAF sensor with MAF sensor cleaner and now it doesn't work. So now I have to order a new one.

Do you know what this hose connects to?
 

If you have a 2000 X5, please take a picture of your engine bay to show me what this hose connects to.

I have 4 pictures below of different angles of the same hose.

The hose is hard plastic that is somewhat flexible

Thank you much http://s1.bimmerfest.com/forums/imag...ile3453453.gif

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Ok so from the diagram, you need parts 1,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and 10. Your best bet id to find a junked X5 and take the whole assembly. It will be cheaper.
http://realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/p/s/135.png

Your MAF may have been faulty in the beginning, causing those codes to be thrown. Hopefully you got an OE MAF and not something off ebay or an aftermarket. Those never seem to work.\

That hard black plastic hose is a breath tube for the transmission, it doesn't connect anywhere. It belongs under the Acoustic cover.

The hooked hard plastic black pipe in the back is the breather tube for the Transfer Case.

SOmeone else will chime in and be more specific about the codes.

Please keep your posts all in one place. I answered it for you on your first post.

Thanks a million TwinTurboGTR, finally a picture that i can use. :). I know this will make my search at salvage yards much easier :).

No problem. I am curious to know why it wasn't there. I am wondering if they were trying to figure out the symptoms of the codes and just started taking everything apart and then just gave up.

Yeah, I believe that is what happened. the dealership I purchased it from for $3500 had purchased it from an auction place.

I believe they purchased it from the auction with the parts missing and quickly realized it would cost them too much to fix and still make a profit.

Put your info in your sig. How many miles are on her? Shoot me a PM with the last 7 digits of your VIN and Ill send you the build sheet on what should be on the X.

Finally, finally answers!!! You have given me so much information already. I've been scanning forums for days with zero luck. You are the man!!!!!

that hose connects to nothing. I think it is a vent tube for the trans or something.

Yeah that rear one by the firewall is a vent tube for the Tranny, the one up front is the vent tube for the Transfer case or vise versa.

Right, something along those lines.

Get some live data from the x when it is running. Start with the maf and compare the readings to some known good reading I have if you like..

Are you referring to the CEL codes from the scanner.

No, actual real time data from the sensors. air flow from the maf and voltage from the o2 sensors long term and short term trims also.

Great! I'll contact you right after i get it running when my new MAF comes in. :thumbup:

150K on her.

I'll PM you the vin tonight. Thanks a million.

I did some more work on the x5 to try and resolve the multiple misfire codes from only one side of the engine. Below I have listed what I did today and the previous days. If anyone has any clues please chime in:




I changed the water pump.

It was originally throwing the codes P1421, P0300 & P0306

So I changed all of the spark plugs and the iginition coil for cylinder #6. The old spark plus had carbon build-up but nothing bad and no signs of oil on them.

I cleared the codes and now I'm getting P0300, P0305, P0306, P0307 & P0308.

The X5 still idles rough, but once I put in in drive and start driving, it drives like a dream until you stop at a light and it rough idles again. It's not about to shut off but a rough idle.

When the car is cold, there is a loud ping/clank sound coming from the left rear of the engine. almost as though you are hitting a wrench against metal. It happens once every 10 to 15 seconds and then goes away after the engine warms up.

The next day I did the following:

1st) I took out the O2 sensor (before the catalytic convertor) and drove it without the O2 sensor to see if the catalytic convertor was bad. The X5 was still running rough and throwing the same codes. This must mean the catalytic convertor is working. if the rough idling issue had stopped, that would of meant the catalytic convertor was clogged and bad.

2nd) after putting the O2 sensor back in, I started the X5 and while it was running I removed the plug from each ignition coil (one at a time), to see if the idling of the engine would change. The engine idle didn't change. I believe the idle should of changed if the ignition coils were firing. So that must mean the coils are not firing as the codes suggest.

Today I removed each ignition coil (one at a time) and the corresponding spark plug, keeping the ignition coil connected to the power plug and had the spark plug connected to it as well. I then had my son turn the ignition on as I held the threading part of the spark plug next to a good ground (-) on the car with the expected results being my ability to see the spark generate on the spark plug. If I didnt see a spark, that would mean there is no fire going to the spark plug, which MAY mean the iginition coil isn't working. But I saw blue sparks on all spark plugs. Still pulling the same codes plus now the maf sensor code.

I cleaned my mass air flow sensor with the maf sensor cleaning spray, now my maf sensor doesn't work, so I had to order a new one. Now the car shuts off right after starting it but if I unplug the maf sensor, it keeps running.

Time to check for fuel. Its not going to be pressure related, the other bank works.
Check for injector power, ground, and pulsewidth. (well you will only have 2 of the three depending on how BMW did it)

But the clank noise is concerning. Sound like it is in the valve train? Maybe pull the valve cover.

Today my mass air flow sensor arrived. I connected it and for 60 glorious seconds it ran absolutely beautiful. After the engine warmed up and the idle dropped, it started running rough again.

I'm still getting the same codes for misfiring on cylinders 5, 6, 7 and 8 (driver side of the engine).

I took it out for a ride and the same as before, the moment you hit the gas, the engine smooths out and rides like a dream.

I was wondering if the MAF sensor worked for the first 60 seconds and then stopped for some reason.

While it was running, I put my hands by the exhaust. The passenger side exhaust air was hot as expected but the driver side exhaust air was cold. I think one of the reasons that is weird because the left and right pipes from the engine becomes one half way under the car and then it splits back into two exhaust pipes. When the pipes merge together as one, I'm assuming the exhaust gas exiting both exhaust pipes is a mixture of exhaust from the lest and right side of the engine, so the exhaust gas should of been hot from both pipes. Am I correct in my assumption?

@ Rewmer: is this the real time data you needed. I got it from the dash area when you hold down the right button and the TEST NR1 displays:

FGSTNR DN73411
K 7356
BMWTNR 6906996
CI 12. DI 08. EI 11
DAT 28101
HW 16. SW 1400/1400
ZYL 08. M 7. S 4095
CAN 04. AEND 33

Hey Rewmer, I pulled this data off of the code scanner while the car was running. I hope this is the info you were looking for:

FREEZE: FRAME
DTCFRZF: P0300
FULSYS1: OL_FAULT
FULSYS2: OL_FAULT
LOAD PCT%: 3.5
ETC: 163
SHRTFT1: 0.0
LONGFT1: 4.7
SHRTFT2: 0.0
LONGFT2: -20.3
RPM 680
VSS 0

These are some other readings from the code reader:
MIL STATUS: ON
MISFIRE MON: OK
FUEL SYS MON: OK
COMP. COMPONENT: INC
CATALYST MON: INC
HTO CATALYST: N/A
EVAP SYSTEM MON: INC
SEC AIR SYSTEM: INC
A/C REFRIG MON: N/A
OXY SENS MON: OK
OXY SENS HTR: OK
EGR: N/A

You know, I am starting to think this is a vacuum problem. Now I know you said you replaced the spark plugs, but when you did the job, did you remove the intake manifold and valve cover. The bolts securing the intake manifold come loose sometimes. The only reason I think that is because you heard a POP noise. If the manifold isn't properly secured down, pressure builds up and blows past the gasket, creating that pop.

The codes that show might be due to fresh air entering the system. The 02 sensor senses the Bank 1 as lean, when it is actually dumping fuel, tricking the sensors.

Let me know, I am curious.

I didn't touch the intake manifold or the valve covers, not to say the previous owner didn't.

I just came in from trying to tighten down the intake manifold bolts. Most were very tight and only about 3 took an additional quarter turn. I tightened the valve cover bolts as well.

I also spray carb cleaner around the throttle area to see if there was a leak. No increase in RPM's as I tried this.

These were the numbers after the engine was warm. I noticed FULSYS1 changed from OL_FAULT to CL_FAULT:

FREEZE: FRAME
DTCFRZF: P0300
FULSYS1: CL_FAULT
FULSYS2: OL_FAULT
LOAD PCT%: 2.7
ETC: 210
SHRTFT1: 0.0
LONGFT1: -0.8
SHRTFT2: 0.0
LONGFT2: -0.8
RPM 600
VSS 0

The info on the first post of this page from the cluster is mostly useless, its coding info etc for the cluster.

The data from the scanner you posted is the freeze frame data from when it was misfiring.
The only interesting thing to note is "LONGFT2: -20.3"
Says that the bank 2 long term fuel trim is way out of wack. The computer is injecting 20% less fuel thank it thinks bank 2 should use. That is based largely on sensor readings. With a misfire you have pure oxygen going into the exhaust that will total screw things up.


The OL and CL has to do with how the fuel trim is controlled. Open Loop and Closed loop. Not much useful info there.

You need to search for things that one entire bank of cylinders share that would not effect the other bank.
The noise may be the cause of your misfire issue.

There is not much more I can do to diagnose this online without you running some more in depth testing.
Try pulling the valve covers on that cylinder head and looking for loose or broken things.

Thanks for the advice. I will go ahead and pull both valve covers this weekend. Other than visually inspecting it Is there anything I should specifically be looking for? Other than an obvious broken piece, is there anything that that I may not visually recognize as "not right" that you would suggest I pay attention to?

Regarding the pop noise, the noise is coming from the passenger side while the misfire is all on the driver side. I haven't heard the noise repeat in the past 2 days.

Ok, yeah I would pull the valve covers and intake manifold. The scary part is when you bought it, it was missing parts. Albeit they are not critical, it makes you wonder what the hell else they touched because of they didn't take the 5 to 10 minute to replace the micro filter assembly, what else didn't they take the time on? Also curious why the black box was cracked open. Now logically I am assuming they were trying to test for continuity in the wires to the coils. They may have mucked something up checking wires. Makes sense since the codes are on that side.

Hey guys I really appreciate the help you guys are giving me.

This may be irrelevant to the issue on the table but I thought I would share just in case it is relevant.

On occasions while driving really slow, like pulling out of the garage in reverse or getting out of a tight parking space, the brakes loose all pressure.

What made me think to mention this is because of this part below and it's relation between the brake booster and the intake manifold:


m62 VACUUM VALVE SUCKING JET PUMP INTAKE MANDIFOLD TO BRAKE MASTER HOSE

Yeah, that sucking Jet it imperative for brake pressure. Have you checked the brake fluid? Maybe master cyl is not doing the job. At 150K miles, a lot of the rubber may be disintegrated. There are a few vacuum hoses that run under the air intake manifold along with that jet. There is also a rubber hose that crosses over from the brake booster to the driver side valve cover. Those lines are normally gone at 80k miles. If the last owner didn;t change it, you may have vacuum leaks all over.

@ TwinTurboGTR: Brake fluid is full.

Ok, so I've ordered the new valve cover gaskets, new intake manifold gaskets and and the gasket for the throttle body. I will begin tearing it down this weekend using this step-by-step as my guide:

Replacing A Leaking Valve Cover Gasket On Your BMW. | Bavarian Autosport Blog

Did you get the sucking jet, OSV, CCV, various vacuum tubes? The OSV connects to the hardline oil tube. There are 2 hoses that connect to it. One a small vacuum hose another a larger vacuum hose. Assuming those have never been done, those may have disintegrated. Might want to change those out as well.

I'll orders those now. Thanks :)

Wait wait wait, slow down lol. You need to methodically think about this. If you are going to do this work, you might as well do it right.

If you go into the search function, look up "M62TU Valley Pan Gasket" If you look 10 threads down is my DIY on it. On the 3rd or 4th page, there is a parts list of everything you will need and where to get it for a good price.

You can go to realoem.com to crossreference the parts and diagrams. The parts list is pretty thorough, so whatever you may need to replace, the parts list should have it in there.

Actually, here is the link to the DIY. http://www.xoutpost.com/article/BMW%...n%20Gasket.pdf

Wait, I missed the opened up injector wiring boxes?
open it up and I bet you find burnt/melted/damaged wiring

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Don't get carried away buying stuff. Diagnose first ! My thoughts are an air leak somewhere. a good diagnostics man with a smoke tester will give you your answers in 20 mins and a lot cheaper than all those new parts.also get a vacuum check on the engine to see if the PCV valve has gone on the back of the inlet manifold. This will give the symptoms you have.

@ TwinTurboGTR: Thanks a million for the Step-by-step guide that is absolutely perfect. The Sucking Jet looks brand new, along with a few other hoses. None of the hoses are mushy or spongy.

@bastereo: I include pictures of the passenger side and driver side boxes. I opened up the passenger side box and it looked as though I was the the first one to open it uo since it came off of the assymbly line. None of the wires on the passenger side were burnt/damaged or melted.

The driver side one is the one that was missing the cover. Those wires look in amazing shape. I even moved them around while the X5 was running to see if that would affect the idle, it didn't.

@ Rewmer: Don't worry :) I only ordered the gaskets for the valve cover, throttle housing and intake manifolds. Regarding the smoke test, I am searching for a place that can do that for me.


In the meantime, I did some more checking today and this is what I have. It may not change the course of action but hopefully you guys can guide me on that:

- I got a can of carb cleaner and while the engine wass COLD, I started it up and sprayed generously around the intake manifold, throttle housing and injectors. There was no noticeable change in idling.

- I did pull the same misfire codes but this time i also pulled P0173 (fuel trim bank 2) & P0159 (O2 sensor circuit slow response bank 2 sensor 2)
*** I'm not sure if those were the result of spray from the carb cleaner.

_ This time I was driving the car while I did the FREEZE FRAME, and here are the results:
FREEZE FRAME
DTCFRZF: P0300
FULSYS1: OL
FULSYS2: OL
LOAD PCT%: 7.8
ETC: 127
SHRTFT1: 0.0
LONGFT1: -7.8
SHRTFT2: 0.0
LONGFT2: -21.1
RPM 960
VSS 3

The picture of the driver side valve cover appears to have a small gap between it and the cover gasket. The passenger side one has no gap. I tried to tighten down the the bolt to close the gap but the bolt just turned and turned and turned but would not close the gap. I took the bolt out to inspect the threads. They looked fine.

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I'm not understand the circled pictures of the hoses. I know the one is of the sucking jet, but what about the last one? Those are booster hoses. The gap between the valve cover and the gasket looks to be within normal limits, but concerns me that the bolt kept turning. It should stop eventually. If it keeps turning, something is stripped. If you are saying the bolt is fine, then the head is stripped. The block is made of aluminum. SOmeone putting a little too much torque on it will strip the threads.

I was wondering if those are the oil separator hoses I've read so much about.

Yeah those are booster hoses to the OSV, they provide the pressure within the valve.

The spinning bolt is a huge issue. You need to thread those holes.

Pulling freezeframe data is not going to provide any new info. The data is stored when the code sets, not when you access it.

I take back my earlier comment on pulling the valve cover for that noise. If it was the other bank nevermind.
But you are going to end up pulling it anyways to fix those threads.

Going back, you said you pulled the coil connectors when the car was running and it made no difference in how the engine ran. Then later pulled the coils, put the plugs in them and there was spark correct?
If pulling the ignition coil connectors while the engine was running really made no difference, it is not likely a vacuum/leak issue.

I would do a compression test (not likely to reveal the issue, but would give some piece of mind that the internals are ok) and verify the injectors are getting power and pulse width on the ground side.

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Is there a procedure for doing this?

may be nothing more than a duff O2 then ? .A free way to check is to clear the codes and swap the forward two O2 sensors over and see if you get any codes logged on bank 1. Wont cost you a penny (Dime).

would the that be the one before or after the catalytic convertor?

I went out to switch the left and right front O2 sensors as suggested.

The drivernsidemone came off with zero effort but the passenger side one was a different story.

I was only able to turn it a quarter turn after some serious effort. I sprayed it down with PB Blaster and worked and back and forth before turning it another quarter turn (the equally as much effort as before). After 30 minutes of repeating this action over and over again, I gave up.

I gave up because I started getting that weird feeling that I may be making a bad situation worse.

I think it's easier to just pick up a new O2 sensor at NAPA, if it doesn't work, I can just return it.

If you think you have a bad o2 sensor, just unplug both and clear the codes.
The computer will just ignore the o2 info and run both banks the same.

But you have damaged thread on that o2 sensor, well more importantly the exhaust.
Get a tap for that o2 bung in the exhaust while you are out at napa. If you are lucky there will still be enough thread left to clean up and install the new sensor.

And didn't you already run the car without the o2 sensor installed, to check for a plugged cat?


And, no sorry, no procedure to check for 12 volts to the fuel injectors, that should be easy enough
Buy a noid light set when you are out at napa (or kragen, or some other parts store) plug it in, in place of an injector. Should flash when the engine is running or cranking, if the dme is trying to fire the injectors.
They have cheap compression testers at most auto parts stores, might as well pick one of those up too, even though its not likely to show you the problem.


Man, this truck is getting bad, stripped valve cover bolt holes, galled o2 sensor bung, missing cabin air filter housing, still misfiring on one bank.

This morning I unplugged the left and right side pre-cat O2 sensors. I then cleared the codes and started it up. At first it ran a lot smoother than it had in the past but that was short lived.

I took it out for a drive and as soon as I hit the gas pedal, the check engine light went out. This was the very first time I've ever driven the car without the check engine light. But the light would come back on when I took my foot off of the gas. The light always went out during acceleration and stayed off sometimes while coasting.

I cleared the codes while I was driving a scanned for new codes. While I was driving with the check engine light off and accelerating, I scanned for new codes and the only codes that generated were for the O2 sensors. When I ran the scanner again with my foor off of the pedal, I pulled the misfire codes for all driver side cylinders. I tried this method several times with the same results. Like clock work, as soon as I hit the gas pedal, the check engine light would go out.

my assumptions are:

If its not pulling the misfire codes while I'm driving then the fuel injectors are definitly getting power and spraying fuel.

there shouldnt be anything internal (lifters, cams..) because that issue wouldn't go away because I'm accelerating. If those parts were bad, they would always be bad even while accelerating and at idle.

Is the O2 sensor pre-cat driver side the issue or part of the issue or only a victim of something else?

Yes I did. Driver side pre-cat


These are extremely small potatoes as far as I'm concerned. I can easily remedy these myself at no cost and some of my own time. I've aready picked up a new filter houseing for $150 for the entire assembly.

Assumptions suck, I rule things out, not guess and hope.
Your issue is most present at idle/when coasting, test things at idle.
Those cylinders are not working at idle, you need to figure out why.
Without access to the live data stream, you need to really test things and hope you find it that way.
No internet searches or assumptions are going to substitute for time spent trouble shooting at this point.

Glad to hear that. Most guys in their driveway get scared at stripped threads.

If you still can't get that O2 sensor out, may I suggest a Snap-on Impact crow foot O2 sensor socket. Those you can hit the tab with a big hammer. If doing that, and using PB Blaster doesn't do it, you need to use a torch or inductive heater to get it red hot. And be prepared with the proper tap, you will need that. Those chrome O2 sockets are not as good when you get a tough to remove sensor.

Here's the Snap-on tool:
SWR2, Socket, Oxygen Sensor, 7/8" (22 mm) Hex, 3/8" Drive

There are of course a variety of very decent Chicom versions of this same tool made, at lower prices, but I am not a fan of buying any Chicom tools unless absolutely necessary.

Yeah, I concur, Best case you won't strip the threads, just muck 'em up a bit. Then you can just get a tap and chase the threads. Worse case, you get a starter tap with some cutting oil and a t handle and retap the threads. If you do that, just remember the threads won't be as strong because you are keeping the same size, There is not enough material to put the same amount of torque on the threads, just make it snug.

There is always a worse case. And that is you might have to go to a timesert. AKA thread repair.

Haha, ain't that the truth!

I'm looking at it like this. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The passenger side pre-cat O2 is the one stuck but it's also the one not causing any issues. So I don't see any reason at this point to go muck it up if I don''t have to. If I need to in the future, I cross that bridge at that point.

We this doesn't sound good. I ran the compression test today and here are the results:

driver side starting from the front of the engine: 55psi, 54 psi, 120psi & 120psi.

passenger side: all came in around 180 psi.

I don't know how to interpret these results but I'm pretty sure it's bad.

I've already pulled the driver side valve cover off and I've attach pictures of the driver side spark plugs and pictures after the valve cover were removed.

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Could it be the oil pressure releif valve in that head has stuck causing too high pressure in the hydraulic lifters?

Did you run the test correctly. Like in TDC? Is this the engine with the loose valve cover?

Or is that leakdown test? Yea it is. Um 55psi in two cylinders. Very strange.

With the engine warm, I took off all of the ignition coils and spark plugs.

I had my son turn the ignition until it cranked 4 to 5 times.

I retested the diver side to make sure the readings would be the same, they were.

Is it possible that valve adjustment is due? Can a valve adjustment be done on an X5?

Youtube leakdown test. watch a few videos. If you have the compression test tools, the next step can be done. You need to test if your valves are leaking.

Did you have smoke before?

[QUOTE=SlickGT1;897845
Did you have smoke before?[/QUOTE]

Yes, I did, no leaks.

I will google the 'leak down' now.

Would you suggest running the compression test again using the oil in the cylinder trick to determine if its piston rings -vs- valve or head gasket. Or will the leak down help to achieve the same conclussion.

Leakdown test will help you find out what the hell is leaking. Use the end from your compression tester.

First crank your engine till you get to TDC. You can ratchet the crank bolt. Clockwise I believe. Stick a wire hanger into the plug hole, and mark the area where it comes up the highest. That will be your TDC. Valves should be closed at this time. Then connect that compression hose, and blow compressed air into the cylinder. Go to exhaust listen there, pop the oil cap, listen there, TB listen there, open coolant tank listen and watch there, you get the drift.

If he had a hole between Cyl 5 and 6 cylinder walls, he would get 0 psi right? Compression that low on two cyl has to be a fried valve or shot piston rings

Ok I finally got the intake manifold off.

My intake manifold gaskets, valve cover gaskets and throttle body gaskets all arrived today.

The gaskets that were on there were original BMW gaskets but who knows if they were ever changed.

I will start putting it back together tomorrow and then I will rerun the compression test and do a leak down test as well.

Below are pictures after the intake manifold was removed.

Even though a vacuumed the engine and blew compressed air around the intake area before removing the intake manifold, plenty of debris still fell down in the intake ports.

To get it out, I first stuck the vacuum down in each intake port, then I blew compressed air in there and finished it out with another vacuuming.

So far me favorite tool would be the telescoping magnet.

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Low compression, yep leak down time.
You could do it with the intake off and have an easier time telling if it is the intake valves leaking.

No valve adjustment possible, it uses hydraulic lifters.

Adding a bit of oil to the cylinder and doing the compression test would be fine, but you already have the intake off and would need to redo the other side for a good comparison.
But, kinda pointless if you are going to do a leakdown.

I would do a leakdown before reinstalling the intake, because if you find leaking valves, the intake will just have to come back off.

Agreed with bastereo 100%. Leakdown test that motor. Don't put it back together.

Great guys :) thanks. I'll read up on it perform that within the next day or two.

I have the compression kit and an air compressor, so I believe I have the necessary tools.

You do. YouTube. There is a guy that does a black suburban or something, he does it the way you need to do it. Compression tester and compressor. Just search leakdown test heads on, or not removed, or on engine.

Man, ive been search youtube a good portion of the day.......it was on the companies time so its ok ;)

I couldnt find one that used a compression tester.

I knew I would have to do this for you.

How To Perform A Leak Down Test - EricTheCarGuy - YouTube

Update: First I want to thank all of you guys for your help :)


I performed the leak down test and everything appears to point to bottom end piston seals.

exhaust: did not hear air
antifreeze cap: no bubbles
intake vales: no noticeable sounds of air - driver side
oil cap: definite sound of air.

I put it all back together with new valve cover gaskets and intake manifold gaskets. I also re-tapped the bad threads on the driver side head, that was easy breezy, it took me all of 5 minutes.

Same issues persist.

I'm giving up at this point. I have zero plans on changing the engine. I'll just sell it and pass on to the new buyer my findings.

Now I'm asking you guys the experts these questions that just have been bugging me because they don't seem to add up.

1) If the rings on the pistons are so bad, wouldn't they be allowing for oil to enter the combustion chamber causing for me to burn oil with smoke coming out the tail pipe?

I haven't had to add oil even though I drive it 20 miles to and from work everyday.
Absolutely no smoke on start up or driving or idling.

2) Why does the misfire stop as soon as I begin to accelerate or increase the RPM's while in Park?

I would assume it would become worse as I drive but instead the issue vanish while driving.

I have a bit different hypothesis. Don't get me wrong, low compression is very, very bad; but it might not be the cause of the misfire. What I'd like to know is:

What was the condition of the plugs you pulled from the low compression cylinders? Were they black and oil fouled or were they nice even grey?

Get one of those test probes that can detect coil pack firing and voltage, and see if at idle, they are all firing properly.

Did you try swapping the coil packs on the left bank with the coil packs on the right bank to see if the problem moved?

Assuming that the plugs look good, and swapping the coil packs does not move the problem to the other bank, I would start to think about a bad ground for the offending bank.

I think you should get a second on site opinion.

I agree, your car would smoke if your rings were screwed. You might have a cracked block, but not sure how the vanes in the block are and where it would leak without mixing fluids.

Get a mechanic to take a look at that engine. Something is not adding up after all you have done. Don't sell it yet.

Wait on a second note. I have a feeling your valves are shot. The fact that you hear air in the oil cap, not burning oil, and no compression in the two cylc, seems like your valves made out at one point with the cylinder.

The problem is somewhere in the head.

Check out this site:

Coil On Plug Tester, Waekon COP Tester 76562

I installed new plugs and after about 2 weeks of driving I pulled them and they were completely black on all 4 prongs, dry with no oil residue,


Yes, I swapped all coils from one side to the other with the same result staying on the driver side. I even pulled each plug to make sure it would fire when the ignition was turned on and they all did.

I think you've got that mixed up. The leakdown test pressurizes the cylinder. With valves supposedly closed. If air is leaking, it's generally going to come out in one of three spots; exhaust, intake, or down past the rings. If it goes down past the rings, think about where that air pressure is going to go to excape....

Bad intake valve....you'll hear air in the intake. Bad exhaust valve...air in exhaust. He did not experience either of these. Obviously there are other places that air could leak out, for example a blown head gasket.

All 4 cylinders on the driver side were low. The front two were lower than the rear two but all four were low.

Thanks guys, but what kind of issue can exist in this type of scenario?

It seems as all scenarios mentioned would result in oil burning, except for the "ground" reason suggested. I have to research on how to test for a bad ground on the ignition wiring. It would have to be a ground that is connected to all 4 cylinders while not connected to the passenger side bank.

What would cause misfire at idle but doesn't when RPM's are over 800?
What type of issue can go away by increasing RPM's?
What type of issue can exist in the above two questions while not burning oil?

No I know how the leakdown test works, my logic is something else. He should be burning oil and smoking with bad rings.

But he did the shade tree test, and I am curious why he is not burning anything. Think of it like this. If his valves aren't sealing properly, and the stem seals are leaking, he would hear air in the oil cap. Remember, the oil cap is on the valve cover, and the valves are right under it.

Did you hear air in the dipstik tube by the way?

Can this be head gasket?

Has the car overheated at some point?

It has never even came close to overheating. The X runs fantastic except for the misfire while idling.

The oil cap is on the passenger side and the leak down was on the driver side. I never checked the dipstick.


If it was the head gasket, we would have to say that the head gasket failed in two spots on the driver side, between the first two cylinders and also between the second two cylinders because all four were low.

Also no oil and antifreeze is mixing at all.

I'm not sure of that. First of all, burning synthetic does not make nearly as much smoke as conventional oil. Second, the cats can clean up quite a bit, (ultimately ruining them of course).

Clearly, with black plugs, oil is getting into the cylinders. If it were leaking through the valve seals, the car would most likely smoke quite a bit at start up.

But bad seals in themselves would NOT cause low compression. The leak down test is done with the valves closed....so bad valve seals could not influence the result; unless you are getting air out the exhaust or intake AND the valve covers, (either the oil filler on the passneger side or the brather on the driver's side). So if air is getting past the valves, then it could potentially make it back into the head through the seals.

I thought the black residue on the spark plugs were carbon deposits due to the bad fuel/air mixture.

The problem is that he is not adding any oil.

So if he is burning it, how is his level still fine. The plugs do display signs of oil though. But he had leaky VC gaskets, so that is really a moot point. He should be blowing a puff of smoke at startup.

Right, we are hoping he did the leakdown correctly, all in TDC.

Get another mech to take a look at the engine. Something is not adding up.

Yeah it looks more and more like its time to throw in the towel because I don't want to invest more money into a car that may or may not run properly.

I don't mind doing the work myself but a mechanic is only going to charge me a ton of money for research and may end up with the same results.

Not in a million years am I thinking I know even a tenth of what you guys know but it seems to me that:

- bottom end piston rings would result in burning oil: not happening

- bad valve seals could mean low compression without burning oil BUT the low compression would continue even when I accelerate. Going up hills or anything that required more torque would cause for me to bog out due to low compression: not happening

- if it has low compression, wouldn't it run worse under load? The engine requires more horsepower unload right? So wouldn't the performance get worse while driving because of the compression issue?

Lord knows I could of made many mistakes in my testing, so even if we go with the notion that my data is flawed do to user error, I think certain things should be ruled out due to the facts of how the car is behaving now and only focus on the things that could result with my profile:

Facts:
- The car isn't burning oil
- the oil and antifreeze is NOT mixing
- the misfire on all driver side cylinders go away when rpm's are over 800
- the only codes being returned are for misfire
- the misfire codes go away while driving

To me it seems the direction should be: What would allow for the cylinders to get compression at 800 rpm's but not at 600 rpm's while idle?


Sorry guys, just a little frustrated after tearing down this engine and still clueless. :(

Try cleaning every ground point you can find on the engine.

It's a bit mind boggling.

Shot in the dark. Might be an avenue worth looking into. Check the vacuum pump. Is there a vac pump on these 4.4s.

Ground is also something to check.

There are four heavy gauged rubber coated wires that bolt to the heads. Two on each head. They are bolted directly To each head under the intake manifold. They are visible in the photos on #63 of this thread.

Can anyone confirm if those are grounds.

Those are the knock sensors.

Guys, rabbit trails!

He has low compression on 4 cylinder and misfires on those cylinders. That is the problem, end of story.

While it is unlikely that his rings are bad without burning any oil, its not impossible. There are 3 rings on each piston. 2 compression rings and 1 oil ring. I bet they all have specific purposes...

I had a much longer response typed into my phone, but it didn't post...

Short story, I have seen the leakage causing misfire at idle before, both times were valves, but they only missed at idle and acted fine off idle.
At idle everything moves slower and there is more time for the compression (air/fuel mix) to leak out, once the engine is spinning faster there is more air and fuel in there (the throttle is open) and with everything moving faster the time it can leak out is smaller so the leakage is a smaller percentage.

How the previous owner managed to kill the compression rings on one side, that's crazy...

That is exactly what I keep thinking. I still don't think it is the rings. I have a funny feeling the timing went, or it needed guides. Someone dropped the ball, the valves kissed. Or maybe someone manually turned it over till the valves kiss, this would take some effort though. Figured they messed up and stopped.

Why not check a few junk yards, and get a new engine? Probably be cheaper then RR the current heads.

Well before posting it on Craigslist 'as-is', I decided to pull the codes.

I cleared the codes after installing the new valve cover gaskets and intake manifold gaskets.

originally I consistently pulled: P0300, P0305, P0306, P0307 & P0308. (misfires on all cylinders for driver side)

now I'm pulling: P0300 (multi misfire), P0306 (cylinder 6), P0308 (cylinder 8), P0155 (O2 sensor heater bank 2 sensor 1), P0159 (O2 sensor heater bank 2 sensor 1) and P0173 (fuel trim bank 2)

only 2 of the cylinders are throwing misfire codes this time.

this may not mean anything, but i thought i would share.

That's a shame bud. I mean doing a quick count, you must have spent $400-$500 on parts. Only to sell it as-is on CL. Hopefully you aren't taking a bath. Your original post state you got the X for a "really good price" so hopefully you are making out a little bit or at least even.

Hell, if you are dead set on selling it, and you have the old parts, I would slap them back in and take the new ones out and sell those separately. That is just me though. I forget, were you the one that said you were going to fix it no matter what? Or was that someone else. The time you joined, like 5 or 6 new members popped up with a 4.4i so I am getting confused.

Nope, I would of never said anything like I would fix it no matter what. I love cars but I'm not one of those guys who pour tons of money into a car that he will never ever be able to recoup.

I got it for a good enough price where as even after the money I put into it, I should still walk away with more than I invested.

I do love it and I will hate to see it go.

Thanks everyone for your time and help.

OK, call me hardheaded.

Today I unplugged all of the ignition coil wires from the driver side while the car was running and the backfiring stopped (as expected).

I then plugged each one back in until the backfiring started again. The backfiring would only happen when I plugged the #6 cylinder back in.

So at this point I noticed that the ground wire from the head and the ground wire from the #7 ignition coil were connected to the screw post for the #6 ignition coil. Now I'm thinking about what Skyline suggested.

So I took both ground wires off of #6 and connect them to #7.

I started the car up and its still missing but it doesn't backfire anymore and I'm only pulling one code now......P0306 (misfire on #6). The X5 is running better than anytime I've owned it.

The check engine light sometimes even goes off for a few minutes.

Whats funny is that when I first got the X5, the only misfire code I was getting was for #6, but after I changed the water pump and the ignition coil for #6, I started getting misfires codes on all driver side cylinders.

So after all of that I seem to be back to absolute square one. But this time I feel there is a glimmer of hope.

Now I need to determine the true cause of the misfire on #6.

Wow. Yea I had a feeling something was wrong with your compression and leak down tests.

Why don't you run a new dedicated ground straight from the Jump connection under the hood to the coils. Even if just to test. You don't have to make it look nice, just some wire.

At this point, I think it would be worth taking it to a good BMW specialist and getting at least a diagnosis.

I tried that as soon as I arrived home from work but no change.

I started pulling a P0204 code today relating to the #4 fuel injector. I believe it was related to me putting the fuel rail back on. so I adjusted the injector plug and cleared that one right away.

***update****

I took my x5 to an Indy shop today and this is what I've been told thus far:

He said I have a bad vanos. I can't quote him word for word and I may screw up some of the details be here's what I gathered, he was saying:

- that the bad vanos was preventing the valves from closing, they were stuck open.
- the injectors were giving fuel and there was spark.
- he would need to change the vanos
- 9.5 hours of labor
- currently at at least $800 for labor but still tallying it up and this cost doesn't include the cost of the parts.

does this sound like an accurate diagnoses? Does the current cost seems reasonable?
I'm comfortable with working on cars, so is this something a shade tree mechanic like myself can do?

I tried finding a DIY on vanos replacement but I haven't been successful yet.

I don't even know what the vanos looks like or where to find it on the engine.

I personally do not understand why the vanos would prevent valves closing unless it has seriously worn and I don`t even know if it could cause this problem if worn .

The vanos is on the intake camshafts on the M62 motor and adjusts the camshaft timing 20 degrees at some point in the rev range . The drive sprocket adjusts on the camshaft by a screw thread . It is usually hydraulic , oil pressure adjusts the sprocket , regulated by a solenoid .
The parts can be seen on realoem RealOEM.com * BMW E53 X5 4.4i timing gear timing chain top - VANOS

BMW TIS will show you the repair procedure BMW TIS Online • 5' E53 • X5 4.4i (M62) Offroad • Engine • variable camshaft timing

The vanos changes where the camshafts are in rotation compared to the crankshaft.
IE advancing or retarding X degrees.
It does not lift the valves open or control how far the valves lift. That came later with what I think is called valvetronic?

So the vanos would have to be allowing enough movement the camshaft to rotate somthing like 70-90 degrees? For the intake valves still to be open at tdc and causing the leakage you measured.
From what I just read, it looked like the vanos should only have 40 degrees of adjustment available. (Was typing while amacman posted, could be 20 degrees, I dunno)

All that said I don't know enough about the M62 or M62tu to say if they are right or wrong. But your leak down test had air coming out the oil cap not the throttle body... Did you open the throttle for better listening?

But, the time seems ok to me, I wouldn't do it for 9.5 hours. Alldata says you have to pull the upper and lower timing covers. But, they may be able to sneak it out with just the upper off.

My main thing is to make sure I don't pay all of this money to have them replace the vanos but the misfire issue remains.

I've read many post on vanos issues and many posts on misfire issues but I haven't found a single post where someone talked about their vanos causing misfires. I would feel more comfortable throwing that much cash at the vanos if I knew this was definitely the issue and not the Indy shop doing a "best guess" approach.

Now I have read where the vanos could cause misfire but I haven't read where someone has actually experienced it.

If its the vanos, I'm assuming it's only out of wack at idle because the issue goes away when you increase the RPM's by only 200 rpms.

Is there a chance that they are going for the big job when in reality the vanos could only need to be adjusted or the solenoid only need to be replaced or something smaller relating to the vanos should be tried before replacing the entire vanos?

I have to agree with Amacman on this. Vanos controls camshaft timing, but not whether valves open and close, or how much. Just when they open and close. This statement throws the entire diagnosis of this Indy into doubt. You may need to get another opinion.

If you're still getting the misfire on #6, swap the coil pack with another cylinder and see if the misfire moves. What's really needed here is one of those wands that detects COP firing.
Like this:
YA76562, Probe, Coil-On-Plug (COP), Ignition


As far as the fuel injector code, did reconnecting #4 help???

yeah, when Amacman posted that info it really made me doubt what they were saying.

I did the coil swap way back in the begiining of this adventure....multiple times and replaced the #6 one with a new one. The entire bank 2 (driver side) still pulls misfire codes. After I changed the intake and valve cover gaskets, I was only pulling the #6 misfire code but after a few days, the other misfire codes returned. The engine shakes (very little) but it doesnt make that classic 'poot' misifre noise that you here from the exhaust. #6 used to make that 'poot' sound but after I moved the ground wire from the #6 ignition coil stud to another stud the 'poot' on #6 stopped.
Also the misfire is only at idle.


There was a loose wire inside of the connector plug that goes to the #4 injector. All I did was wiggle it a bit and that issue went away. Most likely I failed to connect it poperly after changing the intake and valve cover gaskets.

Have you tried cleaning the injectors? I'm talking about a pressurized cleaner powered by shop air....not one of those aerosol cleaners, or something you dump in your gas tank. I have an OTC one like this and it works extremely well:

OTC 7448 OTC7448 OTC TOOLS 7448 - Fuel Injection Canister Cleaning System

This is the cleaner it uses:

OTC 7000A-1 OTC7000A-1 OTC TOOLS 7000A-1 - Pro Inject-R Kleen , Single Can

Finally, you're also going to need a Fuel Injector Test Kit, (preferably the same brand as the cleaner tank so all the adapters hook together). You will need this kit to hook up the cleaner tank:

OTC 6550PRO OTC6550PRO OTC TOOLS 6550PRO - Professional Master Fuel Injection Service Kit OTC

Even if cleaning the injectors does not solve the problem, it will make MOST higher mileage cars run noticably better.

As a final thought, and another "free" check you could do. Have you tried swapping the two crankshaft speed sensors to see if that moves the problem to the other bank? (Make sure you have the two new o-rings on hand before you try this. Those are part no: 12141748398) These things do not always fail outright...sometimes they cause intermittent problems on the way out.

Thanks for the info Skyline.

I just rec'd a call from the indy shop with their final tally:

$1600 total
- $550 for new bank 2 vanos unit
- the rest for labor, oil change, gaskets and adding suggested additives to the oil.

He said the vanos was bad causing the valves not to close all the way.
he said both valve covers would have to come off including the top front timing chain cover.
The bottom timing chain cover is recommended to come off but he said given the high cost already that its not a must.

Could you ask him what he did to determine that this was the problem?

I'll ask him tonight when i pick up the car. I'm definitly not paying that kind of money to repair it.

I found another indy shop to take it to on Wednesday. they charge a flat fee of $68 to do the diagnostic test.

I just picked up my x5 from the Indy shop and these are the fault codes they pulled:

102. 66. Signal, multifunction steering wheel ( I know this one is because I need to replace the clock spring in the steering wheel)

062. 3E. Misfire, several cylinders.

051. 33. Misfire cylinder 5

053. 35. Misfire cylinder 8


054 36 misfire cylinder 6


056. 38. Misfire cylinder 7

005. 05. Oxygen sensor heater, bank 2, before catalytic converter

027 1B. Mixture adaption, bank 2, multiplicative, control limit reached

003. 03. Oxygen sensor before catalytic converter mixed up

023. 17. Oxygen sensor ageing, bank 2, after catalytic converter

115. 73. Air mass flow sensor, signal

I just unplugged the plug to the driver side vanos solenoid and it almost immediately started backfiring making that distinctive poot sound. Then I plugged it back in and the poot backfire sound went away.

It also throw some codes.

This is what I would of assumed would of been the symptoms if the vanos was bad.......am I wrong?

No codes or backfire sounds.

I think we can say the vanos is not preventing the valves closing . Carbon deposits are more likely to cause that .
Problem sounds electrical to me . Or could be many things . There are knock sensors on the heads under the intake manifold which can cause problems . Not saying it`s these but just maybe a possibility .
The vanos could be the cause as you have discovered but I think you really need a definitive answer .
There are 2 BMW techs on this forum could give you a good idea of what to check . They are not around much these days . Weasel and Killcrap are their usernames .

Well the vanos is operated by oil pressure. So maybe the vanos is leaking internally (search vanos repair, I think beisan systems? not for a repair kit but for the symptoms) and that first 200 rpms bring the oil pressure and volume up enough to over come the amount of oil the vanos is leaking internally?

Or maybe the solenoid is sticking slightly . The vanos system function is purely to smooth the idle . the moment the throttle is applied is when the timing is adjusted .
I read something about it years ago , just can`t recall every detail at the mo .
The default position upon failure is set for higher rpm so it could be the cause of the misfire at idle . And as bastereo says , it could be a hydraulic leak .
Really needs some digging to find more info from someone who has experienced this .
I`m sure there will be a 7 series owner with the answer as these guys usually come up with answers .
Good luck .

Wow, I thought you had it running somewhat better. Were all those codes current, or were they pulled up from the fault history?

I still think switching the banks of the crankshaft sensors would be a good, almost free, test that could rule out that problem.

This is all SO similar to problems I had with my G35. Bad grounds actually caused several coil packs to fail. They were melting, and the outer plastic shell distorting. Another quick, (and free,) test that I would do in your shoes is to check the ground straps on the misfiring bank. You know those little ground straps that bolt down to the coil packs in the center of each head? Disconnect each one, and connect a VOM to each in turn, with the other lead of the VOM connected to a good ground, (like the post on the top of the shock tower). Set it to Ohms. You should get NO resistance. If you get resistance, that could mean damage somewhere in that harness that provides power and grounds to the the coil packs and injectors.

I had been studying the Beisan system on the repair procedure but the symptoms they give below don't match my issue:

Symptoms

Cold start vanos rattle.
Warm idle vanos clatter, similar to diesel engine.
Loss of low end torque/power and uneven power delivery.

I thought the vanos would throw its own codes when there was an issue with it.

The only codes I pull from the ODB II are the misfire codes, the Indy shop was able to retrieve all of the other codes.

I will check the ground as you suggested. Thank you.im assuming you mean the braided ground and not the brown one coming from the wire harness that bolt to the same post as the braided ground.

I would check the stud they bolt to....I was wrong to suggest the wires themselves. While those could be a problem potentially, they are not that easy to check. (You'd have to get a wiring diagram and figure out where they go, then check at both ends). While it seems obvious that a stud mounted in the engine would be a good ground, that requires the main ground straps on the engine to be good. It is critical that the coil packs have good ground.

I hope I did it right because after I disconnected the braided ground from bank 1 and 2, I connected my VOM to the driver side braided ground and touched the other end to the ground post on the inner fender wall. The numbers immediately jumped up, went down to zero and as I moved the tip of the VOM connector around the numbers jumped up and down.

I tried it on the passenger side with the same results.

Try testing between the stud in the head that the grounds attach to, and the chassis ground on the shock tower. That should read 0 Ohms....steady.

Video explaining vanos operation for anyone interested

BMW VVT Vanos CAM Timing - YouTube

How VANOS works - YouTube

Thanks amacman.

This is what I found in bimmerforums:

Vanos Solenoid done... WOW, what a difference - Page 8 - Bimmerforums - The Ultimate BMW Forum


All this being said, most ppl i read on here run heavier weight oil. However being that I have no problems running what I run I dont want to change just for the hell of it.
(other than that occasional bump in idle, i have a 95 m3, and it only occurs if i put it into nuetral and coast to a stop... i am reading NGK spark plugs for 96+ m3 will help with this?? my bad off topic)

Many people do not realize this but vanos is COMPLETELY run on oil pressure alone. If you do not have the proper oil pressure you have no vanos. Imagine the vanos system as a dual oil path way maze. one oil pathway is for when vanos is not engauged, the 2nd is when the vanos is supposed to be engauged. the thing that shifts between the oil passages IS the vanos solenoid, thatts why it is such an essential part of vanos. without it you have no vanos. if the solenoid does not operate 100% vanos will not work properly. Lets say the vanos only has enough force to push change the machanism that changes the oil pathway 50%, well that means only 50% of oil will get into the "vanos on" pathway and thereby reducing pressure greatly which will then in turn only move change the cam timing by 6 degrees (instead of the full 12 as it is supposed to in the mid range).

Another factor that is essential is the oil ITSELF. it is the mechanism by which u push the vanos gears. If you use a really thin oil (aka mobile 1), it flows like water and it does not have the same oil pressure as a much heavier 15w-50 weight oil which is much thicker (think of molasis). the 15w-50 is able to "push" the vanos to the proper specs better b/c it has higher compression & oil pressure characteristics and is much thicker. so your oil is just a crucial aspect as the solenoid or vanos mechanism itself. Thats why you see so many people say "i replaced my vanos but the noise came back!" well duh! u are using the wrong oil or your solenoid is bad.

So basically... if you are have vanos problems here is the order you should replace things...

1) change to a much thicker oil (preferably a 5w40-20w-50, bmw recommends 20w-50 for a reason, but you can do castrol 5w-50 which will work in pretty much every weather condition & bmw recommend castrol anyways).

2) change vanos solenoid

3) then replace vanos unit if necessary (though I have spoken to NUMEROUS BMW master techs and every single one dispelled the "vanos stuck" myth. it simply cannot happen they say, jus thought i'd share that).

hope this info helps you guys out.

Last time I check BMW didn't recommend 20w50

You have the vehicle home home right?
I would redo the leak down test, did the shop do a leak down?
If its still coming out the oil cap, its not the vanos.


To everyone else, its not an electrical issue, he has low compression.
Grounding every single coil, nut, and bolt will not help bring back his compression.
Good effort though.

I will be dropping it off at a different Indy shop this morning on my way to work.

Would it of been possible for the other Indy shop to accurately diagnos the vanos as the culprit without digging into the engine?

From what I can tell, the only thing they did other than the diagnostic was unplug some sensors and solenoids.

By "the diagnostic" do you mean pulling the codes?
Diagnosis is performed by spending time to find the route cause of the fault.
I have no idea what they did or even if vanos failure could cause misfires/low compression. But my gut says no.

Are these BMW specialists you are taking it to, or do they service all makes?

They pulled the codes and did some addl checking......don't know what the "addl checking" entailed.

The second Indy shop confirmed their findings.

I have zero plans to put $1800 into this car but I do have the desire to try and do the vanos work myself.

My debate right now is deciding which would be easier, to install a new driver side vanos or get a used head assy with the vanos already attached. I can get a driver side head with a fully functional vanos, cams, lifters and valves for $250.

I just don't know which would be the less difficult to deal with.


Any ideas?

Whoa , Stop , Hold yer horses .
If you have low compression then you have other problems , not the vanos .
I have not read 13 pages word for word but you need to be absolutely sure what requires repair .
Low compression means cylinder head removal to repair the fault .

Did you tell the second shop about the findings of the first? Might have biased their findings?

I ask because your leakdown test revealed leakage past the pistons/rings not the valves like it would have if I really was a vanos problem.

I don't recall if it came up or not. I wouldn't think I would of told them but sometimes things slip out.

Now here's something interesting......at least to me it's interesting.

When I first purchased the car it was giving only the #6 misfire code, so after changing the water pump, I pulled the codes again and still was getting only the #6 misfire code.

So I replaced the #6 ignition coil but the misfire didn't go away and eventually I started getting the multiple misfire code (p0300) and the other 4 misfire codes for cylinders 5,6,7 and 8.

After changing the plugs, switch the ignition coils from one side to the other.....I still pulled the mutiple misfire codes for all cylinders on driver side.

Then I changed the valve cover gaskets, the intake manifold gaskets and the throttle body gasket and after that I only pulled the #6 misfire code. But a few days later the other misfire codes came back.

Now i changed the oil and today I checked the codes and the only one I pulled was the #6 misfire code.

I did disconnect the battery earlier, so it may just take a while for the other codes to generate.

But I do find it odd that the #6 misfire is always constant but the others are not. Seems strange that #6 always throws a code days before the others.

If the vanos is stuck in an open position, causing for the cam shaft to be turn x degrees all the time, that would mean all of the cylinders are equally off in their timing. So that would also mean they should all throw the same codes at the same time.

Your thoughts....

Yup, the vanos effects all the cylinders on that bank exactly the same.

I would have to say that #6 sets first because the leakage/compression is the worst on that cylinder.

What info did you give to the shops?

Sent from my SGH-i917 using Board Express

Allright, so I dropped of the X5 at another indy shop that I was recommended to.

I didn't tell them that I took it to any other shops and I didn't mention the VANOS.

I only told them what the symptoms are and what I've done so far. I will keep you guys updated once the verdict is in later today.

Well guys, it's looks like I'm about to finally exit the X5 family. I just received a call from the indy shop and he was unable to pinpoint the exact issue but he believes it's an issue with the timing chain and/or guides.

He didn't even mention the VANOS.

So I'm no further no than I was 3 indy shops later.