N62 engine valve stem seals
 

I sit with a engine doing the smoke screen trick at traffic lights or then crawling in traffic and then accelerating. Feedback from my mech i that the N62 engine - 4.8is is a valve stem seal problem child and it cost a bag full of money. the car done only 110 000 km!

the proposal is to do the following:

1. Take heads off, recon heads, new head gasket, replace valve guides and seals - most expensive option
2. Keep heads on vehicle with compressed air in piston and only do the Valve guides - Cheaper option

Now the question is: which one?

What year is your car?
The option choice is up to you.

How does one do option 2 anyway?

What year is it again? Please put your info in your sig. Just as Slick and I have. You may be able to call BMW for a goodwill fix. It is not a guarentee, but what do you have to lose? Worse case they say "no". Good case they say they will pay 50% of the cost, best is that they cover the entire nut!

The car is just out of its maintenance plan period (100 000km plan) and it is a 2005 4.8is with 110000km.

Doesn't matter. A lot of members here has major problems and reached out to BMW and they offered to provide assistance to some owners. Situation vary and results vary as well. It doesn't hurt to give it a try.

There should be a recall on that freaking engine!!!! Everyone that has a 4.8 is experiancing an exhaust smoke issue to some degree. Unlike the 4.4 where its usually just a crankcase vent valve, the 4.8 is the guides and stem seals. Replacing the stem seals is just a temporary fix if anything. The guides wear which creating play between the stem and the guide causing side to side play or a rocking motion. The seals, no matter how tight will leak from this rocking motion. A new pair of heads is the way to go. New heads with all nessesary parts and labor will run over $10K from BMW. Average cost for valve setm seals from BMW is over $3500 and they will not gaurentee valve seal replacement will cure the smoke. In other words you will be throwing your money away. How can a $70k plus vehicle have this on going problem and no recourse? I really think you will see a class action suit against BMW in the near future. Just my 2 cents.

I am so glad there is more people in the world feeling this way. The bad thing is the Dealer knows this and let you run the the maintenance plan out and tel you bull shit stories of vent valves and all BMW engines uses oil and when the F&*($#@ car is out of maintenance plan, they just say: Sorry your problem, please pay!

For the average man out there to pay these ridiculous prices to fix a recall problem is not on. Even the price of stupid valve stem seals are totally overpriced (Maybe it is made of crude oil and Platinum).

The only option is to make it someone else problem and sell it, but this passing the problem onto a next sucker to complain. There must we a way to stop this bully tactic of "big Brother"

You guys know you can replace the stem seals without taring the entire engine to pieces. You use compressed air to hold the valve up, so that it doesn't fall into the cylinder. Work from the top, and you can replace the stem seals fairly easy.

You will need a cylinder compression tester type of tool though to pump air into the cylinder.

Out of interest how do you compress the valve springs to remove the collets? Took a bit of doing with the heads off and using a valve spring compressor when I did mine.

To do the compressed air method is much cheaper, but are the valve guides not shot as well when the seals goes?

Haven't tried it on this engine, but I can't see an issue fashioning something out of steel. So here is a quick description of how I would go at it.

1. You take off the cam shafts, so you can use the cam shaft cap holes to bold down your piece of steel or wood, whatever you make.
2. You use a Oxygen sensor socket, to push on the valve to compress the spring. The socket would be pushed down by your steel bracket, or block of wood that you made. I prefer to make something out of steel, because it would be thinner and you won't need to find super long bolts. If you are able to cut out a thick piece of steel, the socket won't be needed. Just make an access hole around the collet so that you can remove it.
3. You should have your compressor running and your leak down tool connected.
4. Your cylinder should be at TDC, because just in case something goes drastically wrong, you have a better chance of recovering the valve without pulling the head.
5. Now you can gain access through the oxygen sensor socket to remove said collets. Or through the hole you made in the steel plate.

I hope you understood that.

There might actually be a tool for this, but I don't know of one that would work on every engine. So I never looked into it.

Not necessarily. What is causing the blue smoke is the seal being worn out. Oil is basically getting past a rubber part. I mean if the engine got past so many miles before the seals blew, theoretically, just replacing that seal would give you that much more life. There is probably a manufacturing flaw somewhere, but how much do you want to spend to find out. If you were to pull the heads, and do a complete head rebuild, then that is a different story.

Does anyone know if you can do a valve job on these heads? And where would one get a tune to compensate for the air?

Let me stir again!

If you go ahead and replace the valve stem seals, do you buy again the useless original OEM seals, or can you go after market?

Any specific brand?

I have no clue. I have not had to do this yet, so I have not done any research.

I would do the heads.
It will be more expensive up front. But you only have to do it once.
The most common cause of valve stem seal failure is excessive lateral movement of the valve, from worn guides. (worn guides cause seal failure, not the other way around)
There is no way to determine the condition of the valve guides without removing the cylinder heads. But I would assume they are.

If you do just the seals, how many times are you going to kick yourself for having wasted that money? If the seals go again in short order.

On the question of seal choice, in my opinion they are all created fairly equal. No reason to stick with BMW, when you can get the same or better seals for less $

Out of curiosity, what was the quote for the 2 repair options?

Personally I would take the heads off too.

My 06 has this problem at 110k. Has anyone talked to someone at BMW NA? If so, who?

Your better off taking the heads of I did it trunk had 73k at the time of removal all my exhaust guides were worn replace guides. That's what your head look like now.

This is after heads been sent out.

Intake side.

Dealer is doing my valve stem seals under warranty. They want some tool to do it without taking the heads off because, they say, the heads will probably warp and will need to get new ones. Sounds legit? I've been waiting 8 weeks now.

It can happen, but not sure how probable it is on the N62... Doing it insitu saves alot of dealer money. You won't have a ton of say in the matter when its a warranty job.

Anyone measuring their oil consumption rate? I'm making some mean smokescreens with my X during extended idling times. My engine has 112,000 km on it, absolutely ridiculous.

I'm running it harder from time to time when its all warmed up on on/off ramps to burn off any buildup on the exhaust side but not really banking on that for anything.

Anyone had issues with this clogging up the cats?

Any success with changing oil viscosities?

There's no miracle fix, oil vis change etc. You have 2 options:

1. Enjoy life, let an indy do it for you ($$$$$$$$)
2. Elbow grease, keep the $$$$$ in your pocket. And do this

ok.. so why does she smoking stop during the cold weather? I don't seem to be smoking at all anymore at idle at a stop light.
The only change is that I topped off the last 2 times with a heavier oil(10w30 i think)

You adding a heavier oil is a temporary fix your doing more harm than good in the long run your making matters worst.

agreed.. the valve stem seals fund has already started :)

Lol a word of advice when doing make sure they take the heads of or you'll be going down that road again. Did my wife truck A year now truck runs like a charm.

Lucas Oil Will Fix Your Smoking X
 

I know this is an old post, but...
I'm finally a member on this site and this is my first post. I bought my X5 with 164,000 miles and the dealer tricked me into buying this smoking monster. The short story is while I was loading my stuff from my old car into the X, the dealer snuck over and turned the X off. I was getting stuff out of my Mark VIII and I turned around towards the X and he was walking away from it. I scratched my head and wondered why he turned it off and just supposed for safety reasons. Whatever. He knew damn well the car smoked while idling too long and I didn't discover it for a few days. And I mean SMOKED!!! BAD. I read all about the valve seals and the EGR diaphram stuff(mine has the factory upgrade on it) and was just horrified.

I went to Walmart, got two quarts of Lucas Oil Stop. 500 Miles later, NOT EVEN A PUFF of smoke, EVER...

For what its worth for anyone reading this thread. I put in two quarts of Oil Leak Stop at every oil change
Lucas Stop Leak - Walmart.com

I also put 1 quart of oil stabilizer.
Lucas Oil Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer, 1 gal. - Walmart.com

I also use SuperTech full synthetic oil. It runs perfect now, and quiet, and NO smoke. No time for the ensuing arguments about oil choice. I've always used this oil that Quaker State makes...

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tech...-5-qt/23636925

This will save you 5000-7000 dollars.

I'm not a mechanic. Try this at your own risk, it worked well for me.

Now going back to my ignition switch issue
my driver mirror issue
my two driver side door carrier issues
crummy subwoofer issues
coolant leak
windshield wiper tank leak
and rear camber issues

But it don't smoke anymore at 186,000+ miles!!

what a sneaky dealer!!!
thanks a lot for your input. I will definitely research this and add it to my list of possible things to do.

^^^^ So you put 2 quarts of Stop Leak, a Quart of Oil Stabilizer, and the rest is 5w-20 Supertech oil? Wow.

There is an inherent issue which needs to be addressed and besides being a temporary fix I don't believe its the right one for long term ownership.

I figure since it works perfectly, that adding 25 dollars to each oil change to make it, and me, happy, is a good trade off. Actually, its not really adding 25 dollars now that I think about; probably about 10 or 15 dollars since I'm replacing 3 quarts.

The inherent problem is the valve guide/seal design, and the 164,000 miles on a car that has problem seen alot of 100% throttle.

This is my plug for Lucas; I run it in all my cars now:
2006 X5 4.8
2008 X5 3.0
1994 Ford Lightning
11 sec Eagle Talon AWD
1972 Ford LTD Convertible

Can an oil leak be the core issue also? and the crank case pressure is off due to this leak?

No oil leaks that I'm aware of. Just plain old worn valve seals. The CCV is fine with the occasional cleaning out of the peanut butter. I thought that was the original fix and it didn't do anything for the smoking.

Lovely, lovely- this afternoon I had an extended idle (~15 mins), and when I drove off there was a huge plume of blue smoke. Arrggh, now onto the next never ending headache:D

Any one know of a tech in the Pugent Sound area (Seattle and environs) who does the n62 valve stem seals repair on the side using this technique https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YacOx2ydMbI ?

'05 4.4 sports 112K miles.

I'm tempted to go for this quick fix but I don't know what the long term effect would be. I intend to keep my X5 'till the end and therefore would like to fix her the right way- at least that's what my good self is telling me;)

I was in that same boat and in January went ahead and got mine fixed. It's stopped using oil and no more smoke! Plus it got a little peppier too!

BTW, sent you a PM with a shop recommendation. :thumbup:

Hello DavidClass, how's everything holding up with your fix?

Curious as well since mine starts to smoke after a 15min idle. I'm not sure I could bring myself to put stop leak in... but you never know. Would save about a grand and 40 hours of time. :dunno:

I hope I don't duplicate here. I fat-fingered the keyboard and lost my reply.

I have 195,000 miles now and no smoke, ever. not even a puff. I starting putting in Lucas around 165,000, right after I bought it. 10 or 12,000 mile oil changes and consumption is down to probably a quart every 4 or 5000 miles. But, my X5 is DRIVEN.... and runs perfect.

For the Naysayers...
Why would anyone not use Lucas to fix this problem? Has someone had a bad experience with it? Is someone more experienced with piston engines than Lucas automotive products and be able to explain why its not a good idea? Why would Lucas "Oil" break a BMW engine but none of my Fords?

LOS basically increases the oil viscosity making it more difficult to leak through the valve seals. Its not a fix, it only creates an acute fix for the burning, while causing more chronic problems down the line from additive displacement, foaming and reduced flow during coldstarts etc.

Interesting. Do you have a direct experience with LOS? Would using a high viscosity oil instead of LOS cause the same problems you mention? I spoke to a mechanic about my valve stem seals issue and he suggested to use a heavier oil such as Mobil 1™ High Mileage 10W-40 if I want to delay a proper fix.

DavidClass, do you have any issues with cold start that Omerta mentions?

Perpetually adding an oil additive isn't actually fixing the problem. The problem is that the seals are failing. Putting in an additive hides the issue by swelling up the failing seals. It's really a temporary fix.

There are accounts where people skip putting in additives which are currently working and the smoking reoccurs. Then when the additive is put back in, it doesn't work because the seals don't swell back up.

You may run the engine forever using the additives and never have a problem. If so, that's great! But it's not really fixing the root issue of failing seals. Only replacing the seals fixes the issue.

BTW, here's a good discussion of the Lucas Oil Stabilizer. Basically, quality oils have additives in them to reduce wear on your engine. Lucas Oil Stabilizer doesn't have any additives so you're basically diluting your quality oil with that product.

Lucas Oil Stabilizer? | OTC and Third Party Oil Additives | Bob Is The Oil Guy

Not a great anology but this sounds to me like patching up a leaking bicycle tube rather than replacing the tube with a more sturdy one. Given the quotes I'm getting for a proper fix are nearly 50% the value of the car, it seems a patch makes more sense at this time for me, albeit I have to make sure to refresh the patch at every oil change.

The analogy fits. And can't blame you for not wanting to pony up for the fix because it's definitely expensive.

The shop which did my repair told me that other than the stinkiness of the smoke and oil consumption, there's not much harm to the failing valve stem seals. They haven't seen any issues with things like the emissions systems as a result of the smoking.

I can't debate anyone on this thread because I don't know what it does or how it does it. its magic maybe. I know what it did for me. I've driven it pretty hard for 30,000 miles in two years, including pulling a 3000 pound popup camper 4000 miles out of a 5000 road trip. Jack rabbit starts and nose standing stops are the norm for this X5.

I'm not encouraging anyone to do this. My car was not driveable because of the embarrassment of the smoke screen that any batmobile would be proud of.

I fixed it with 24 dollars worth of Lucas. (From Walmart)

I've used LOS in a 2000 TDI Jetta I drove to 450k

It would cause the same problems with a lower viscosity oil minus the foaming (air entrainment).

Since the smoking is when the oil is hot, you would likely need to up the oil to a 10W50 or so to compare... but that effects your VANOS, cam followers, chain tensioners, and all hydraulically operated parts as well. Not an acute problem, so you won't likely see a smoking gun for a while.

I went back and read some of that thread from the Lucas link above. Pretty funny stuff. I'd wager that none of them that hate it, ever had or saw a Lucas oil caused engine failure. I read lots of opinions against oil additives and several that are for it, The ones for it, at least had supporting personal use of the products. I didn't read one post that said " I used it and blew up my BMW engine".

I run 20w50 in mine (hot climate here) and still have the smoking. Oil consumption is definitely way down to maybe a quart every 5000 miles as yours is but the smoking persists. :(

David, I don't think it's an issue so much with the product as I don't think Lucas would risk the liability involved if it were indeed a danger to engines. What I think it is more an issue of for people are that it isn't actually fixing the problem but "band-aiding" it. It's a purist train of thought for sure (and one I am guilty of depending on topic) and is probably why you are seeing some resistance...

Bottom line if it works for you... awesome. Replacing valve stem seals is a helluva lot of work and I might try the Lucas additive as well if it holds no danger to other systems. I always equate stop leak products with coolant stop leak products where you end up with chunks of silica type material all over the place.

Excellent. let us know which way you go

It may be too early to tell with certainty, but I started using Mobil 1™ High Mileage 10W-40 instead of the BMW high perf oil 5W-30 and, to my delight, noticed much reduced smoke and much, much reduced oil consumption! For the first time since this issue started I have seen the oil in deep stick stay at half mark after a long drive (300 miles). Keeping my fingers, toes, balls crossed that this lasts, at least till my next scheduled oil change (5k miles). Bought 3 gallons of the oil from Walmart at $23 per gal.

Cool of that solves your problem. Though, I wonder what impact that has since I don't think it's the right spec Mobil 1 oil for BMW engines, it should be 0w40 euro formula. Does the 10w-40 have the right api spec?


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Doubt it matters in the long run... I run 20w50 in all of my BMW's. But if you live in a very cold climate it might not be a good idea. In Texas we have no issues and I run it all year round. It eliminated my smoking at idle unless I leave it for 20 minutes idling... which is almost never. Oil also stays at mid level fairly consistently and only add a half quart every 2000 miles or so.:thumbup:

This is just a band-aid "fix"... more of a workaround really. Eventually I'll do the seals, timing cover, valve covers, and alternator gaskets to fix this problem once and for all. But so far this has bought me 11000 miles of use over the last 14 months with no ill effects. :D I don't really anticipate any either... as I said I run 20w50 in all my older cars, usually Valvoline V1 20w50 to be specific.

The correct fix is valve guides or new heads. Valve seals wont make a difference once the guides are worn. Since this is a well known problem and just about every 4.8 ever made has this issue or will encounter it at some point, BMW should really step up and stand behind them all!!! I owned the cleanest 4.8is I had ever seen out of a showroom and had to part with it because I didn't want to drop approx $10k to have the job done right.
I did put some valve stem sealer in it with pretty good success but as you said this is only a band-aid fix.

Correct fix is in the eyes of the wallet holder.. Sittin' pretty at 195,000 miles with Lucas, looking and running like new... 30,000 miles on mine since started using Lucas. I expect to make it to 300,000 without doing seals. Speaking of looking new, I "Wipe-new'ed" the plastic and rubber and the headlight lens; it is astonishing stuff, not to highjack the thread or anything...

Exactly which valve stem sealer did you use? Did you also change the weight of oil from the BMW recommended 5W30 or whatever you were using before the issue?

Can you recommend a shop which can do valve stem seals on my x5 e70 4.8i ?

Signature BMW in Kirkland did mine. They are a fantastic shop and reasonably priced.


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I have not been on this site for a long time and I am amazed that guys are still targeting the valve stem seals and exhaust guides as the main cause of oil leaks.
There is good information already on this forum but I will hit the basics.
If you have a smoking BMW V8, burning oil the VERY FIRST thing to do is to pull the hose off the front of your intake manifold, right where the throttle body attaches. There are two hoses, one from each valve cover, they merge and plug into the front of your intake manifold. These are the engine vents or Posistive Crankcase ventilation.
BMW uses a different name but this is what they are.
They are supposed to pull vacuum against your sealed, air tight engine.
When you pull this hose off your intake, look inside. If you see oil you have a ventilation issue. These should be nearly dry. Some Oil vapor travels through the vent but no oil should be in there. Use a pen light and look inside the manifold where this hose hooks up.
If you see oil you have found your oil consumption issue.
To fix this issue you have to seal the engine up. There are many potential leak spots on these engines. If oil leaks out of this engine, air will leak in. If air leaks into the manifold, vacuum will pull oil into the intake manifold and you will burn oil.
This type oil burn issue will burn more hot than cold.
Actual valve stem failure will burn most on cold start and clean up after it runs a short time.
Exactly the opposite of what many BMW V8 drivers report but still they blame valve stem seals.

I will share that doing a valve stem replacment will fix this issue also because to replace valve stem seals you remove all the guilty leaking gaskets and O'rings and replace them as part of the valve stem seal replacement job.
Valve cover gaskets and all the O rings that help seal the engine will be brand new so the air leaks will be plugged and your oil consumption issue will go away.

I read that some have used Oil Stop leaks to fix this issue. It may help but I warn you very seriously that oil stop leaks do a lot more than plug oil leaks and so many parts in an engine need to be lubricated constantly you should not risk cutting off a small oil supply with stop leak.

Some of the components that can be the source of your air leak.
Valve cover gaskets
Dip stick O Ring
Vanos O Rings
The sensors that plug into the valve cover have o rings
the front covers on both heads have gaskets, if they are leaking, (mine were) they can pull air and leak oil.
The Vacuum pump on the front of the pass side head can leak oil and air.
The stupid O rings on your oil cooler hoses, I say stupid because the $6 orings on the oil cooler hoses can take 15 hours or more to replace. This alone is enough to hate the engineer that designed it. If these are leaking oil out, rest assured the Crankcase ventilation is pulling air into the engine. If air goes in, oil will be in the intake manifold.

Oil in the intake can't get there from the valve stem seals.

There are more potential leak spots but these are the main culprits.

If your engine has 250,000 miles it may need valve guides and valve stem seals.
At 70-140,000 miles. No way in my opinion.

I have repaired 3 of these V8 X5's and all three stopped using oil.
none got new vavle stem seals and all use 5-40W oil or 0-40W oil.
My 2008 X5 at 108,000 miles uses about 1/4 quart of oil in 5,000 miles and no longer has any oil leaks at all.

One side benefit to fixing all the air leaks is it corrects the vacuum signal to your computer which affects the way your tranny shifts. With all leaks fixed my tranny now shifts just like it did when the car was new. Incredibly smooth shifts. I had not realized how it was not shifting well prior to these repairs.
Gas Mileage is darn good. 20-22 on Hwy trips at 75-85 MPH.

I will finish with, I did not make any of this stuff up. I am Gold Certified as an Engine Machinist, Certified for Engine Repair and Engine performance and have 30 years in the business at the manufacturer level. I am not strong on repairs outside the engine but Internal engine parts I know pretty well.

I wrote this book again as I am pretty concerned when I see someone on here state they have Oil Consumption and exhaust blue smoke and 15 guys quickly tell the owner to replace his valve guides or valve stem seals. This is based on phooey not facts.
As I stated, if properly done replacing valve stem seals will include replacing all the gaskets and O'rings I mention so of course it will fix the issue but you are also paying to replace valve stem seals that don't need replacing.
If the engine is at 200,000 plus miles I would agree it might need valve stem seals but if you have taken good care of the engine with frequent oil changes the valve stem seals and valve guides should last longer than 200,000.

Start with the basics. Look in the crankcase ventilation tube at the intake manifold.
It will tell you what you need to know.

Then look for the sources of your oil leaks. If Oil can leak out air can leak in.
Air leaking in is what puts the oil in your intake manifold. It does not belong in there.
My son's 2005 X5 4.4L got new gaskets and O'rings at 145,000 miles 5 years ago.
It was burning oil like crazy. Now at nearly 200,000 miles it does not use any oil and does not leak any oil.
We fixed a 4.6l for a friend of his back then also. Same result.
Fixed my wifes 4.8L two years ago.
I hope this helps some of you. It is not magic, just engine basics.
Heavy oil smoke on start up after the car has been parked at least an hour = Valve Stem Seals
Oil in your intake manifold = Air leaks and external oil leaks.

^Appreciate the info Westlotorn. Definitely worth the read and gives hope to owners, like myself, who suffer from this issue. I do have some minor oil leaks from the solenoids on top of the valve cover and a sensor at the back of the valve cover.


Will do a smoke test to find any other leaks and then do all of those as well. Thanks again for taking the time.

So does this explain the plumes of smoke after extended idle and then revving the engine?

Valve stem seals cause smoke on start up because oil sitting on the top of the valve stem will drip down past the intake valve into the cyl head chamber where it burns on start up. This happens with the engine off. You see the accumulation of oil burning on initial start up then it calms down once this has burned off.

At idle you have the highest vacuum signal in the engine. This is when oil is pulled into the intake manifold if you have air leaks in the engine.
You rev the engine and this oil in the manifold goes into your cylinders and burns making blue smoke. Oil does not belong in your intake manifold. If you just take 5 minutes and remove the hose from the front of your intake manifold and look inside you can see if there is oil in there or not. Look in the hose also.
If oil drips out and you see wet oil in the manifold you found your problem.

Third scenario, you are going down a hill in your car with the foot off the gas, you hit the gas after this and blue smoke comes out. This is normally piston rings failing.

A fourth thing to think about. If you pull your spark plugs out and 1 or 3 have heavy black carbon on them and the others are clean this would be an indication of valve stem seal failure. The bad plugs are running in cylinders with high oil consumption.

This spark plug test is a good indicator of how well your engine is running.
If all 8 look equally good your oil issue is spread out through all your cylinders again pointing to the PCV or Positive Crankcase ventilation. Again, BMW calls this something else but crankcase ventilation is what it does. If oil is beng sucked into this system it hits the manifold where it will go all through your engine to be burned not just into one or two cylinders so all 8 plugs will look pretty much the same.
Before we fixed my son's car he came home from college and told me his valve stem seals were bad. He researched it on the BMW forums.
When I asked how he knew it was valve stem seals he said everybody on the forum told him it was a common problem. His 4.4L was at 140,000 + at that time.
I told him to pull the spark plugs and look at them. They looked brand new but he was burning a quart of oil in less than 500 miles.
I told him it was not valve stem seals and being smart and in college and with all the notes on the forum backing him up we discussed this issue for a couple days. ( argued ). I showed him the wet crankcase vent and oil in the manifold. I finally convinced him to just seal it back up, he had several oil leaks. He fixed it in stages as he had parts and time. One valve cover, then another, then O'rings etc over a couple months. Oil consumption kept getting better and his engine kept running better and shifting better. His was getting 24 MPG on the highway at 75 MPH pretty consistently on his trips back and forth to college, once the final oil leaks were repaired he no longer burned oil.
His intake manifold was very wet with oil inside on tear down and was not easy to clean. Hot Soapy water and small scrub brushes and a lot of time got his clean again. If we did this again I would pour solvent or diesel fuel inside first and swish it around for a while, dump that and then start with hot soapy water. If it is wet with oil it will attract dirt, you want it clean.

Westlotorn: Thanks for taking the time explaining. Very helpful.

Westlotorn, I'm just thinking aloud as a DIY'er...do valve stem seals last the life of the engine? If not, why target only the leaking seals (valve cover gaskets etc) when that task covers a significant portion of valve stem seals replacement? The AGA tool is cheap to rent nowadays (approx. $200 for 2 weeks) … and if valve stem seals will eventually leak, I'd rather target them as well while doing the other seals, no?

I've always wondered why it only smokes during extended idle. My 4.8 doesn't do it on cold starts or at traffic lights. Only after minimun of 5 minutes of just idling.

Also only smokes if I free rev the car hard after the extended idle. If I just drive off normally no smoke either.

My oil consumption is not bad maybe 1/4-1/2 quart every 3000 miles or so.

Also Lucas Oil Leak Stop does not swell seals and gaskets like some old skool "leak stops". Some old timers I know they used to use brake fluid to swell up the gaskets lol.

But in modern engines seals are made out of viton which is very durable to heat and wear but eventually lose their elasticity over time and what Lucas does is add plasticizers which brings back their elasticity to "seal" what ever it's trying to seal.

I also think there are revised/aftermarket vss that have an improved seal design to prevent it from failing.




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I'm going to replace the valve stem seals using rented AGA tool and a rope (to keep the valves up instead of air). It's not difficult, only tedious and time-consuming. Replacing the valve covers is the most difficult component of the whole project. Here's a facebook group for rental and description of the rope process. The rope technique makes the whole project much easier - no air compressor is needed for the project - and you can take your time and do the job carefully. No rushing due to fear of losing air and dropping the valves. The rope keeps up and prevents the valves you're working on from dropping:thumbup:.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/BMWAGAN62TOOLRENTAL/

No Rope Needed
 

Neither rope nor air pressure is absolutely needed as long as you are certain the piston is at TDC on the compression stroke.


I just finished a valve guide/stem seal job for my friend in my driveway on a 2008 X5 E70 4.8L N62TU. While doing bank 2 (I started on the driver side), I worried constantly about dropping a valve into the cylinder. At the same time I kept asking myself "How can a valve drop into the cylinder on a high-compression engine at TDC? Since the combustion chamber volume must be small to create the high compression, the clearance to the top of the piston at TDC must be tiny."

Calling and talking with AGA about that very question - they said I was correct; with no air pressure at TDC, the valves would drop onto the piston top, moreover, are serviceable by replacing the valve keepers using a flat screwdriver with a pat of grease to hold and position the keepers. The down side to the rest-on-the-piston method is the valve stem drops too low for the AGA Keeper Tool to be used. One of their mechanics told me he never uses the compressed air method, preferring the speed of not having to deal with attaching the air supply via the spark plug hole.

I see a couple people have changed the valve stem seals. Did you look inside the intake manifold prior to doing this job to see if you really needed Valve stem seals?
If your intake was wet with oil your issue was not valve stem seals.

Blow-by residue was present in the intake manifold
 

Yes, there were blow-by deposits just behind and beyond the throttle body: degraded oil, dark brown soot, etc. The backside of the throttle body and its butterfly valve were both heavily coated with same. As part of the service work, I flushed the valve cover's PCV passages and the three-connector PCV hose with solvent to clean away as much blow-by gunk as possible; the throttle body got a thorough cleaning as well.

I don't believe the smoking had any anything to do with air leaks. The valve guide seals were in bad shape, it smoked. Now they're new; it doesn't smoke any more.

You're the first person whom I've seen that has debunked, without fear of contradiction, the fear of valve stem seal replacement - thank you:thumbup: I've always wondered about how the stem would disappear into the cylinder when it's at TDC. By the way, I'm in the middle of valve stem seal replacement. I bring the piston near TDC, insert a bungee code in the spark plug hole, continue to bring the piston towards TDC until I feel resistance. This way the valve stays up and you can even press it down with your finger and feel it will not go anywhere. You can clean the stem off carbon build up, etc. To remove the bungee code, just turn the engine backwards just a little bit to let the piston off it. There's a guy in ebay renting out the AGA tool for $199 for 2 weeks and $10 per day after the two weeks or $50 for each additional week. Very reasonable. Anyone who can replace the valve cover gaskets can do the valve stem seals. The valve cover replacement is the hardest part of the project in my opinion - it's just that it's time-consuming and requires great care not to loose the keepers inside the engine.

I still don't know what to do about this. E70 was doing but it's gone but now dealing with similar with my 4.8iS.

From Westlotorn I wanna believe it's not my VSS as I don't have any of the symptoms like he described when VSS fail.

I did change both CCV and corresponding hoses but still smoke slightly after extended idle ONLY. I'm due to do all my gaskets soon and if I'm gonna do the valve cover gaskets might as well do the VSS don't you guys think? So I don't have to do things twice?

Currently at 117k miles.

I too didn't want to believe it was the VSS causing my smoking issue on extended idle. I changed both valve cover gaskets and all the other seals including upper timing cases and the vacuum pump seals. What a waste of time and effort - still smoking on extended idle. I kicked myself hard as I'd done 80% of the valve stem seals work:rolleyes: Right now I'm doing the VSS myself in my garage, and I can tell you from the condition of the ones replaced so far, they're definitely the culprit of the smoking - rock hard and with some I could almost see the gap between the seal and the stem after removal.

The major question is why didn't I want to believe it was the VSS? Fear of the difficulty of the work to replace them. I've discovered it's not hard, just time consuming. I watched 10's of DIY videos of VSS replacement to come to this conclusion. And you don't need an air compressor after-all.

Yes, just in denial that's all LOL also because it doesn't smoke on extended idle when it's cold, only after it's been warmed up.

When you guys do the VSS, are the seals an upgraded version?

I've read that the newer N63 seals are the updated ones that withstand the higher temps of the turbos.

Yep, same with mine, which is because the oil is still thick.

I have smoke after a brief idle coming from my 2006 4.8is. I inspected the hose going directly into the top of the intake manifold and there is a decent amount of oil in there. I have already ordered replacement diaphragms for the CCV's. Current ones were torn nearly all the way around. I'll report back the results after the new ones are installed and everything is cleaned and put back together.

As a mechanic, I must say your theory that the culprit of the smoke is not the valve stem seals and the true cause is being masked in the replacement of all the seals during the process of replacing the valve stem seals is very interesting and makes a lot of sense. The symptoms everyone is experiencing is not typical of worn valve stem seals. However, we are dealing with a BMW and anything is possible I guess. My plan is to attack everything else except the valve stem seals. There are several oil leaks on my engine so I'll seal those up first and see what happens. I'll post my results but I think you may be on to something here.

Yep, most definitely - the red ones as seen in the AGA video.

Damn...I'll do it soon but going to pay to get it done. Local guy wants $2500 (parts & labor). Found him on another bmw forum and couple guys already got it done by him with good reviews. He's tech at BMW and does this on weekends (backyard mechanic) Now that it's getting super cold plus shorter days, I don't want to deal with this headache.

Cool, good to know. Thanks!

----


I just replaced my two breather hoses and pressure regulator valves and the smoke is definitely less than it was previously. I am going to assume I need to just "blow out" any residual oil that was in there and report back. Both hoses were oily, enough so to even drip out. One regulator seal was completely torn! Easy DIY and I am happy I did it. I did see an oil leak coming from the vacuum pump so that'll be next.

Been there and done all that. Intake had oil, pipes had oil, replaced all seals imaginable - twice. Still smoking on extended idle 10-15 minutes when engine is hot. Now doing the valve stem seals and as I remove them, their condition leaves no doubt whose fault it is. I'll post pics later tonight. I see no point of not doing the valve stem seals when you're tackling every other seal - the VSS are just a step away! If the smoking is fixed, well and good. If not, you will have to do it all over again, like I'm doing now:(

Valve Stem Seals for the N62 in the AGA video
 

The red ones in the AGA video are made by Elring in Germany. They use a Viton or Viton-like fluropolymer rubber.

For an N62 or N62TU, the BMW factory VSS P/N is 11340029751; the Elring P/N is 199440 for a box of 16 seals, one box per bank, two boxes total. These sell on Amazon for about $30 per box, and a number of sellers on eBay offer them too. I got the parts for the job I just finished on eBay. I used Elring Valve Cover Gaskets as well - worked great, saved a bunch of money.

Nice work, I am glad this may save you money and time.
IF your intake is wet with oil you have a air leak allowing that to happen.
I can't say where your air leak is but any place in the engine leaking oil can be the location of the air leak. The crankcase must be sealed and that includes the dip stick and the oil cap seal on the valve cover.
Just get a new cap, they are cheap and always in stock which tells me BMW has issues with them.

As a mechanic, you know that valve stem seals can't put oil in your intake manifold. If you have oil in there you should accept you have an air leak in your crankcase ventilation system.

If you are paying a mechanic to do this job you will have a ton of labor cost involved, if you are that guy, paying for a mechanics time you could spend a little more money and have them do the valve stem seals.
To me this makes sense if you are facing a couple thousand in labor cost for this job, 80% of the time is already invested just replacing all the gaskets and seals, adding valve stem seals is not that much more.
If you turn your own wrenches and are competent to do this type repair you could seal up your engine at very little cost but maybe 20 hours time of your own under the hood and eliminate oil leaks at the same time.
When I change my wifes X5 oil now the drip pan is clean and dry.
It formerly would be wet with oil leaking.
Doing this job is not for everyone for sure.
Valve cover gaskets on one of these is a real pain for anyone.

I would bet 9 out of 10 of these burning oil do not have a valve stem problem.
If you tear an engine apart at 100K or more miles the VSS will probably tear on removal. Does not mean they were not working before tear down.

I have fixed 3 of the BMW V-8's, 2 4.4L and 1 4.8L in my family, I have not replaced a valve stem seal yet.
It has been 4 years now I think but my son's 4.4L went from burning a quart of oil in 400 miles at 144K to nearly zero consumption in 5,000 miles.
It was at 175,000 last I heard, my son sold it to his Aunt a couple years ago and she has just sold for a new BMW so we have lost touch now.
My son now has the new X5 Diesel, nice car I still have my 2008 X5 4.8L.

I only write this to help you save money not to debate if I am right or wrong.
The 5 minute test anyone can do is to remove the breather hose from the front of your manifold and see if it is wet and oily. It should be mostly dry, may have some residue of oil film, stuff you could wipe your finger in and come away with a dirty finger but but no wet oil.

Either way gentlemen; if one person is doing a VSS job to eliminate the smoke, while the other is knocking out air/oil leaks - what's the difference? It's working! Both are solving the smoking issue. I'll keep a fund going if I ever need to do VSS job, but for now i'll work on the smaller items.

My 4.8iS would smoke terrible at red lights, and bumper-to-bumper traffic. Absolutely terrible! I've read a lot on the dreaded VSS and I actually knew this going into purchasing this vehicle. It was one of the negotiating items I used to get the vehicle at the price I was willing to spend. Kept researching about air/oil leaks and it makes sense. So, I started there - did both breather hoses last week along with both pressure regulator valves and the smoke has definitely gone away. Not 100%, I have tested letting it idle for a few minutes and no smoke, but If I let it idle for an extended period of time (which is rarely the case anyways), there is some smoke. Could this be residual oil prior to replacement of the hoses and regulators? Most likely. I did see a leak around the vacuum pump, I guess there is a seal in there that will need to be replaced. I will probably have that replaced soon as well.

My father owned one of the first E70 4.8iS (2007), and he still owns it. Well over 100k miles and I have never seen a smoke issue on that vehicle. And I will tell you he is not one on preventative maintenance. Only fixes it until something breaks, longggg oil interval changes, etc He's dumped thousands into it over the past 10+ years but he still loves driving it.

The vacuum pump has two seals, an inner and an outer that can leak, both are O'Rings. The part numbers are shown in this forum but I don't have them handy. One is available at the BMW dealer but the other is not. You can get both from one of the aftermarket BMW parts houses, I found the part numbers on this forum when I did it. I tried an aftermarket oring from Napa first, it worked but was a little too large. The BMW house had a better set of O'Rings.

Vacuum Pump O-Ring Kit
 

Dorman offers a vacuum pump repair kit, P/N 917-146, that services the engine drive coupling O-ring, the big pump case O-ring, and includes five replacement pump cover screws in case these get damaged taking it apart. The price for this kit is expensive for what you get, all over the map: $53 to as little as $25; plenty of people sell it on eBay.

The latest pump engine drive O-ring from BMW sells for about $10 MSRP, P/N 11667509080 (07119903506, 11660151057). The numbers in the parentheses are still valid, but superseded BMW P/Ns.

BMW doesn't service the case O-ring, instead selling a whole new vacuum pump. My friend Dave got clipped for $625 in November, 2017, for a leaking case O-ring.

A month or two ago, I found this table data describing the vacuum pump O-rings on Dorman's website (reformatted here):

Case O-Ring
------------
Maximum Inside Diameter 93.66
Maximum Outside Diameter 96.76 mm
Maximum Thickness 3.10 mm
Minimum Inside Diameter 92.34 mm
Minimum Outside Diameter 95.24 mm
Minimum Thickness 2.90 mm
-
Engine Drive O-Ring
-------------------
Maximum Inside Diameter 53.45 mm
Maximum Outside Diameter 56.55 mm
Maximum Thickness 3.10 mm
Minimum Inside Diameter 52.55 mm
Minimum Outside Diameter 55.45 mm
Minimum Thickness 2.90 mm; 2.90 mm

Thanks for info!

I used this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-N62-Vac...frcectupt=true

I changed mine and it started leaking again from the case after a year or two. I did it again but applied a thin layer of sealant and that fixed it. Thin layer only, like barely!

Beware the timing case gasket stub
 

There's a big omission from the BMW TIS system regarding sealing the valve covers. My Snap-On man is a former BMW Master Mechanic whom I consulted before doing the valve stem seals job on my buddy Dave's X5. When getting ready to replace the valve covers I noticed a relatively big bump of timing case gasket extruded up at the front top and bottom of the head. I measured it with a feeler gauge; the ridge of rubber sat off the head's sealing surface by 66 thousandths (about 1/16"). I asked Mr. Snap-On about this - he told me I must trim the protruding gasket flush with the sealing surface, suggesting a lubricated single-edge razor blade so the gasket wouldn't tear.

No way the valve cover gasket would have sealed with a wisp of RTV silicone and that big ridge. See attached photo.

The valve cover I removed was leaking, even though the dealer had changed the valve cover gasket only last November, 2017.

I have the AGA valve seal repair tool kit for N62 engine if interested, its a must have for this repair. Mine is used but in great shape, link below is what the kit looks like, PM me if interested.
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...AaAjw4EALw_wcB

Reminder that many smoking problems are just CCV
 

Jus a reminder that many smoking problems are oil suck from a broken CCV membrane and NOT the dreaded valve stem seal.

Always check the easy and cheap CCV system before diving into the expensive valve stem seal repair.

A thread on it:


https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...lem-fixed.html

If you have a continues smoke , better check your CCV's!
You should have 2 of them, left and right sides.
http://i65.tinypic.com/28jri8.jpg
If like this is not good:
http://i66.tinypic.com/2vwts79.jpg
Get new, Amazon is cheap for 2 of them or get them original but pay 5,6 times more $.

For me i failed emission test at 5 minutes idle, and my CCV where replaced 4,5 months back, so i kind knew that my valve stem seals are gone, and i did replace them all the valve stem seals and passed smog/emission with no problems.

Found a rival of the AGA valve stem seals tool and it sells for only $350!
German Speciality tools BMN62VSST
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-Valve-S...e/163358707098

It works great and gets the work done though not as well as the AGA tool, but the AGA tool is bloody ridiculously expensive. It's not worth it for the DIY in my opinion when the GST tool serves exactly the same purpose- changing the valve stem seals without removing the head. I think instead of renting the AGA tool it's better to just buy the GST tool and take your time doing the valve stem seals (most rental fee is about $200-300 per week or two). An endoscope is a must have for the difficult to see areas. It makes a significant difference I have to say. They're cheap - a good one goes for around $25.

If you notice in the picture (the green cord), I'm using the bungee cord technique- no air compressor! I'm at peace with my neighbors and my wife as I quietly work late evenings.:thumbup:

Wait. What is the bungee chord technique?

Air pressure is used to keep the valves up preventing them from dropping into the cylinder when changing the valve stem seals. Well, many DIY folks don't have an air-compressor or have a sissy one (like myself), mainly because of home situations - space and noise restrictions. Further, valve stem seals job for the DIY'er comes with particular pressure to rush through the job for fear of losing air or power while carrying out the procedure and therefore resulting in dropping of the valve stem into the cylinder - a night-mare that can take aggravating days to retrieve.

So some creative mechanics came up with this bungee cord trick. It's a very old trick actually - your grandpa or your old uncle may know about it:bustingup. You feed the bungee cord into the cylinder you're working on (through the spark plug hole), turn the crankshaft by hand to raise the piston up, compressing the bungee cord against the top of the cylinder. This keeps the valves held up so you can remove the keepers for seal replacement. The combustion chamber will be filled with bungee cord, as opposed to air pressure and its attendant risks (leaks, loose of power, faulty compressor, upset neighbors and family, etc. :D) In this way bungee cord offers reassurance that the valve won’t drop – the valves are fully supported with no chance to drop down. As a DIY'er, you can take your time to do this project and stopping half way through a task, working on weekends or after your day job:thumbup:

Nice price for the tool set. The bungee chord i was reading somewhere that it has to be about 4 feet in and @x5only, i see you have the cams still in? or u taken them out?
Replaced my valve stem seals about 2-3 weeks ago, but was done by a shop and they removed the cams and also timing. Had warranty on my engine so insurance paid for the job, other wise i had to do it if had no insurance.

Yeah, you don't need much - I put in about 3 feet and it does its purpose perfectly. Most bungee cords are about 4.5 feet standard length. It takes 2-3 minutes to push it into the cylinder you're working on. Of course the cams are still in and no messing around with timing and such - that's the genius of these tools:thumbup: The procedure is well explained in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_z0PmoRmT4 and the AGA tool video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YacOx2ydMbI

By the way, which insurance company are you using?

Wow. That’s a good technique. I have a decent compressor, but I still have fear that the valve stem would drop in, or the cylinder turn over. This is way smarter. When my time comes around to do this, I will use the bungee technique.

Yeah, you can your time to do this job, take a break and enjoy some beers or coffee, attend to your family, come back and continue where you left off. The job is very tasking on your back! Once I'm done, I'll write up a DIY using the bungee cord.

How thick are those bungee cords ?
The shop that did it for me used air applied to cylinders, and they have that AGA tool set. As for the warranty, i have Alpha Warranty Services alphawarranty.com , purchased it with the car 2 years ago, and it did paid off now with those valve stem seal replaced., good that i got it as if not i had to do it myself.
Thanks for those videos.

Just a standard bungee cord, like this one I got from home depot.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-48-i...8OPB/206802336.

Standard ones fit into the spark plug hole with ample space around it. You just cut off one tip end of the bungee cord and burn it with a lighter so that there're no frills.
Here're the specifications of a standard bungee cord.
Cord length (in.) 48
Cord thickness (mm) 8
Cord width (in.) .315

If the shop used the AGA or BST tool, clearly they didn't remove the cams.:D The purpose of these tools is to change the valve stem seals without disassembling the engine further than the removal of the valve covers. No cams removal and such. Shops therefore make more money as they do more valve stem seals jobs in a much shorter time. For this reason it doesn't make sense not to do the valve stem seals if you're going to remove the valve covers - you've already done 80% of the valve stem seals process. They're right there staring at you and all you need to replace them is the $350 BST tool and a $2 bungee cord:D So if you're chasing vacuum leaks and going to change the valve covers and other seals, why stop there if you know about this process? I didn't know when I did my valve covers twice chasing vacuum leaks, and what a waste of time, money and energy as my X5 still smoked on extended idle of 10+ minutes! And it's not like the valve stem seals last the life of the engine.

No Rope (or Bungy) needed
 

No rope (or bungy cord) needed is needed. I learned this from one of the mechanics at AGA; I mentioned this earlier in this thread (quoted above). It isn't really necessary to use compressed air, insert rope or a bungy cord.


As long as the piston is brought to TDC, the valves will rest quite nicely on top of the piston, only dropping a little bit more. Without compressed air in the combustion chamber, there's no chance the engine will turn over, so no need for the Timing Chain Lock Tool either.

You're indeed correct and I too struggled with this question. It had an air of mystery around it. I'm suspecting intended to instill fear into the hearts of DIY'ers:rofl: However, the key is that if the cylinder is at TDC, you're safe. But even at TDC there's a 6mm hole and the valves are at an angle as opposed to vertical relative to the cylinder. So you can't just fish it out with a magnet. If it slips for some reason, such as accidentally rotating the engine, it's enough where you don't have a way to pull it back up without a nice long fight. Further, the AGA tool requires cylinder #2 to be just past TDC or before TDC. One has to be very careful there not to drop the valve. You see in the pictures I have used towels to cover the sides of the timing gears. I'm pretty sure you took the same precautions. If something falls into the engine depths there (say a stem keeper or a nut etc), you know it will be a disaster. I think using the cord or air pressure is the same thing - to prevent a disaster and make the work easier;).

Valve stem seals done! Engine timing perfect. Buttoning up the engine now after replacing all other seals and gaskets.

What seals did you use?


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Elring 199440 made in Germany, from Europarts. They're the improved version in design and material over the original factory ones that I replaced.

Darn, I used new OEM. Wondering if they ever revised itm


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No Rope (or Bungy) needed, continued
 

Actually, there is no danger of a keeper, etc. falling into a cylinder as I faithfully used the black plastic spark plug hole guides provided with the AGA kit and the flag rod to plumb the piston TDC position, as well as faithfully using the AGA cam chain lock tool to prevent any crankshaft movement. With the rope/bungy method there still exists the risk of dropping a valve into a cylinder when backing off the the piston a bit so the valve can extend into the cylinder to put the rocker arm back in place.

You raised the issue of the camshaft balancing lobe on cyl #2. I did the valve stem seals on an 2008 X5 with N62TU engine; #2 had no balancing lobe as described in the AGA Kit (manual manual in error), but did have a balancing weight lobe on #6 (not described in the manual) that I had to work around. I've not seen anyone else describe this anomaly, but did confirm it with AGA tech support. AGA's kit instruction manual is in need of some updates and revisions.

I understand the OEM ones are also improved. Some folks use the ones from the N63 engine as they're deemed more robust. I chose Elring 199440 since that's what I see being used in the AGA video and almost in every DIY videos I've seen.

Yea my receipt shows N62TU valve stem repair kit. Bought it at a local BMW dealer as the Indy mech gets discounts there.


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No, not falling into the cylinder but into the depths of the engine through the wide gaps around the timing gears - it's pretty obvious. If a keeper falls in there, it may be impossible to get it out without disassembling the lower timing case!

As for your assertion of the risk of the valve dropping when backing off the piston to install the rocker arm back, the valve spring and its keepers are already installed at this point so it's impossible for the valve to drop as long as you keep pressing down on the valve as the spring is compressed, the same thing you're to do when using air pressure or nothing at all!:D The only risk I see with a rope is it getting stuck due to forming a knot. For this reason a bungee cord is the way to go.

Pieces getting into the engine interior
 

Sorry, I misunderstood where you were suggesting pieces might get lost. Another member somewhere warned of the danger of exactly that route of entry into the engine, so I heeded his wise advice by packing red cloth shop rags around the timing gear and chain. This route of stray parts entry is a risk whether one uses compressed air, rope/bungy or no combustion chamber filler.

An additional choice I made to minimize the risk of foreign material of any kind entering the engine was doing one cylinder bank at a time. I did my job outdoors in the driveway. I tarped the car at night and pulled 32" stretch-wrap over the hood to windshield gap to keep any rain/dust out.

Late update :D

NO SMOKE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Took her for a long drive, idled for 45 minutes until I got tired :thumbup:. Wow, what a feeling it was to see no smoke after revving hard :D. It took about 100 miles of driving for the stinky exhaust smell to completely go away. But the smoking stopped immediately :thumbup:. I also did an oil service with BMW performance oil, getting ride of the heavy oil and lucas additives I'd been using.

For those who believe it's vacuum leaks causing the smoke and therefore only go as far as replacing the valve cover gaskets and the associated seals, I'd recommend to go all the way and replace the valve stem seals as well because you've already done most of the work anyway, and it's not like the valve stem seals last forever. It's what finally stopped my smoking issue after earlier on wasting time and money replacing both valve cover gaskets and seals. And for those hesitating to do this project, if you can replace the valve cover gaskets, the valve stem seals replacement is very much within your skill level. Go for it! Using a bungee cord, instead of an air compressor, certainly makes the project much, much easier, safe and you can take your sweet time working without being a noise nuisance. Some say it can be done without a compressor or cord; indeed you can since all is needed is to make sure the cylinder you're working on is at TDC, but for the average DIY'er tackling this project for the first time, better to play it safe and sure … your choice ;)

Great job. This is in store for me.

Glad you got yours fixed. Aren't these x5's fun to work on! Great car, not easy to work on.

The FIRST thing to check for anyone considering this job is the vent hoses where they enter the front of your intake manifold by the throttle body. A vent hose comes from each valve cover, these hoses on my 08 4.8L meet in the middle at a T and one hose connects to the Intake Manifold. Pull this hose and inspect. If OIL is in this hose and you see oil inside your intake when you shine a pen light into the connection for this hose you have a Vacuum leak. Nothing else will put oil into these hoses or the manifold. Nothing. You would see a minor amount of oil from the vapor in the hoses but no running or dripping oil in a good engine.
The fact that your car had stinky exhaust for 100 miles indicates your manifold probably had residual oil in it and most of it cleaned up over time.
With a reduced amount of oil coming in your Cats would have burned it up giving you clean looking exhaust. A greater amount would smoke out the back.
Even with the manifold off the car it is hard to wash all the oil out.
I think I washed mine with Diesel fuel first and then hot soapy water before putting it back on.
With the Manifold off the car you can inspect the Intake Valves, they should be clean and pretty dry, if a valve stem seal has been leaking enough to make the engine smoke you will see wet oil on the intake valve heads looking down the intake ports.
If the oil is coming down from the manifold rather than the valve stem seal you will see the oil path going down the intake ports. The should be clean aluminum.
You are correct that while in there, installing new valve stem seals is not that much more work or expense over doing just the gaskets.
I have only fixed 3 of these, a 4.4, 4.6 and my current 4.8L, have not needed valve stem seals yet. One was repaired at 140K and is now over 200,000 miles.
The 4.8L is only at 115,000 after being repaired at 90K, no longer leaks or burns oil.

The best side effect was how well the tranny shifts once the air leaks are plugged.
It shifts like brand new again. If your throttle is a little jumpy coming off idle in first gear that is an indicator.

^ This is a good paragraph of information for anyone first trying to figure out their N62 oil/smoke issues. Someone could search multiple threads for hours trying to find what Westlotorn just stated. Simple, to the point, Well said. :thumbup:

Ready to sell the tool? ...I am planning to do this job on 2009 X5 4.8 with 86k

Excellent information. Thanks!


I just had another round of smoking problems during a smog test. It was failing the 'snap test' where the engine is revved to 3k RPM three times with visual inspection of smoke from the tail pipe.


It was smoking again, after rebuilding and cleaning the CCV system and the intake manifold two year ago. I was hoping it was the CCV system again and not the valve stem seals finally.(I haven't had to do them yet, at 160k)


Fixed: It was the CCV system again.

• Changed the diaphragms in the valves covers and cleaned both the hoses.
• It was still smoking, so there must be oil still in the intake manifold.
• Plugged both CCV hoses with silicone stoppers.
• Sprayed a can of carb cleaner into the hose inlets and into the throttle body on the intake manifold while the engine was running.
• Drove on freeway for half hour.
• Passed test perfectly

Note: The CCV hoses are to collect the blowby gasses from the crankcase. Plugging the hoses is OK short term, but would lead to a build up of water and crap in the engine oil.


Here's my thread detailing my initial fix:


https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...lem-fixed.html

OK, it's my turn.

145,000 Miles. I noticed puffs of smoke when idling. I have already replaced the PCV Caps and diaphragms - no soap. When I got home today, I let the car idle and for about 4 minutes there was no problem. Then a little smoke started flowing from the left exhaust. a minute later it was also flowing from the right. Another minute after that it was like a bug fogger went off.

So, if I look for a used AGA tools kit, is there anything in the kit that could be damaged or bent and therefore make the kit not worth the money?

I don’t personally own one but they look pretty solid. I could see the potential for maybe missing one of the brush stoppers or possibly tweaking one of the “crows” feet that compresses the spring out of squares, but I would imagine even that is pretty unlikely.

I know a handful of the guys on here either own one or have rented it, I’m sure you’ll get some good feedback.

As an alternative to the AGA tool and saves you a few bucks:

https://supershop.store/products/bmw...CABEgLu-fD_BwE

NOTE - I have not used either tool yet so I can’t say one over the other, but they do the same job.

I've used both in the same project - rented AGA and then bought my own alternative tool. They work essentially the same but AGA tool admittedly works a bit better and has a better fit-and-finish, but that absolutely does not just the cost difference in any way. The alternative tool works just as well. Had I not used AGA tool earlier, I would have thought nothing less of the alternate tool.

As for breaking the tools, you'd have to work very hard and be extremely lucky to break any part of it ;). Both tools are solid.

Thanks a lot for the alternative tool kit (edit: unfortunately, it seems to be universally unavailable)... That looks much more reasonable. Has anyone here used or been exposed to both tool kits - and can say what the major difference is?

You might consider this a "nervous energy" or "fraidy cat" question:

Anyway...

If the piston for the cylinder you are working on is locked at TDC. Is there enough room in the compression chamber for the valve to actually (irretrievably) drop into the cylinder? Or will it fall onto the top of the piston with enough of the stem still exposed to be gripped and retrieved?

The reason I ask is that I do have an air compressor and I am thinking of doing the job using it vs. the "rope (or bungy) trick." Only thing is I am looking for any reassurance that if I did bump the valve being held by air pressure (or if the air pressure failed for whatever reason) and dropped the valve, that I can still retrieve it. If not, then I think I would prefer the assurance of a mechanical block (AKA rope).

N62 engine valve stem seals
 

From everything I have read, heard and seen to date, rope is the way to go for sure.

That said, no, with the piston at TDC there is not enough “drop” to actually lose the valve, but you will play heck getting around and under everything to retrieve it.

Rope [emoji106][emoji106]

Oh, and I believe it’s cylinder 2 that has to be just beyond TDC, so there is a bit more pucker factor there.

I will be starting this very job next week.. and I will be going with rope.

Do you know if you have to follow instructions provided with the tool kit (if any), or are there step by step instructions available somewhere other than videos that can be lost or deleted from YouTube?

Ahh crap, I just noticed that too... best I found was $500 for the AGA tool on eBay and that looks like it’s already gone too...

Sorry to get your hopes up ☹️

X5only (and others on here) have posted BEAUTIFUL step by step “instructions” for this job.

I will be using the post by X5only to do my own VSS job and am very confident that it will be successful.

Actually not sure if the tool really comes with a “how to” per say, just more of a guideline on how to use the tool - you are way further ahead to use one of the guys posts on here - they have GREAT experience [emoji106]

You can review this video by AGA for usage. I advise to review as many videos as you can before tackling the project. I spent almost a whole month reading and reviewing about the project. I didn't want to leave anything to chance and end up messing up my X5 instead of fixing it. But that's just me as I tend to be slow but thorough and sure in my DIY projects.

https://youtu.be/0I61gyCeCfE

That is true. See post 103 by JPcallan.

https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...-seals-11.html

In fact I hear experienced mechanics change the seals that way - no air or cord. I think for the average DIY'er it would be tempting fate to attempt this project without any form of caution to prevent the valve stem from dropping, if accidentally the cylinder is beyond the point of easy valve retrieval, in which case you will curse the day you were born. Don't tempt fate. Many have accidentally dropped it. Do a search on the web and see how they struggled.

Endoscope / Video Camera Question
 

"... difficult to see areas" pretty much defines the entire job. Would you tell me what you used for a camera to get those big, sharp, images?

When I did the seal job on my buddies 2008 X5, I used a Ridgid brand micro CA-25 Camera. It really didn't work very well as it couldn't focus up close; it also had a tiny view screen. Each day after doing a couple of cylinders, I would come inside and look at your photos in this thread with envy.

Anyone in Southern Ontario (Niagara to London to GTA) have this tool for rent? My shop is in Mississauga and I'll likely be dropping the engine for a few pending repairs. Seeing as it'll be out, I might bite the bullet and tackle this too.

Thanks in advance!

If you already have the engine out just pull the cams and make the job SUPER easy :thumbup: WAY easier to just set the cams back in and re-time than most people will admit - pull the cams and save yourself a dictionaries worth of 4 letter words and frustration.

Has anyone tried valve seal conditioner like Forte?
https://youtu.be/smRjx5Ykgqw

Before tearing into valve stem seals check the intake manifold for Oil inside, check the crankcase ventilation hose where it plugs into the front of the intake manifold. If they are wet with oil that is most likely your oil and smoke issue. True valve stem seal failures smoke on start up and quickly clear up while running. If you have an air leak in the engine it will suck oil into the intake manifold and cause the smoke at idle problem many report. Many items can leak air into the engine. If you have an oil leak externally you know air can also leak internally at that point of oil leak. Common leak is the valve cover gaskets, oil filler cap etc. Seal the engine before changing valve stem seals. My 2008 4.8L X5 was a smoker 35,000 miles ago, does not smoke today. OEM valve stem seals still in it. Original problem was at 100,000 miles, now at 135,000. Just food for thought. We also fixed my son's 4.4L X5 same way, no valve stem seals. Test is pretty simple, check for oil inside the intake manifold, there should be zero oil there if the engine vent system is working proper. Valve stem seals can fail but they have unique smoke issues when they fail. When you replace all the gaskets, Orings etc as you change valve stem seals you will also re seal the engine. How do you know at that point which issue caused your smoke. There is a ton a labor involved in sealing one of these engines so I understand if you are paying a shop to do this, change the valve stem seals while you are doing the job since the valve covers are off. If you do the work yourself you might measure the need for valve stem seals differently. There is no way for valve stem seals to put oil in the intake manifold so if you find oil in your intake manifold you most likely found the oil use issue on your engine.

This is my experience too. Smoking from oil in the intake manifold. Fixed by cleaning the CCV system. It happens about every 20k miles and needs recleaned. Still on my original valve stem seals.

My experience was totally different. Intake had oil, pipes had oil, replaced all seals imaginable and prayed- valve cover seals and every other seal while at it ... twice! Still smoked on extended idle 10-15 minutes when engine is hot. I tell you I really tried to avoid doing the valve stem seals. Nothing worked. When I finally decided to change the valve stem seals, they were in fact brittle and most would barely seal the stem, the gaps between the seal and the stem visible on many of them. Smoking and foul exhaust smell stopped after the valve stem seals replacement.

X5only, curious how many miles on your engine when you changed the Valve Stem Seals.

May be 120k miles thereabouts. I don't know why they deteriorated that much as I've owned it CPO from around 40k miles and diligently changed oil twice a year.

Just completed this job on a RHD 4.8is 2004.
Thankyou X5 Only for all your tips.


Here are my tips

1. I used the AGA tools - I had difficulty mastering the collet tool
2. Collet tool mostly worked in easy to get to valves.
3. I removed the lifters completely for better access.
4. Take care removing the lifters from the inlet valves because the cam followers
can drop out from the eccentric cam.
I proteceted this from happening by 'safety wiring ' these up onto the eccentric cam
when that cylinder was at top dead centre.
5. I used 'rope' or bungey cord to stop the valves from dropping out, about 800mm
fed down the spark plug hole. You will never get the piston to TDC whilst working on

the VSS, but this is areally safe approach compared to compressed air.

6. I used Elring VSS kits and valve cover kits
7. Cylinder 4 and 8 inlet valves at the rear of the head are difficult.
Patience and more patience

I tried endoscope, Snap On and mirrors.
Mirror and curved pick with grease worked a treat.
8. Make notes of your dissasembly or lots of photos.


Result - No more smoke!!

Congratulations on successfully tackling this tough project ... another happy E53 owner:D. Great notes:thumbup:.

Outstanding! I can still very vividly remember doing mine with a lot of help from this forum as well. All in all not a terrible job and yes, you nailed it, patients and more patients is absolutely the trick because just as soon as you "get snippy", "ping", something drops into the abyss never to be seen again :rant:


Nice idea on the curved pick! I used my finger (with grease) but wow I had to be a contortionist on some of the :D