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Replacement selector rod seal for (A5S390R)
Hello, I was under my 2001 x5 3.0 the other day and spotted a oil leak coming from the selector rod that goes into the auto transmission. Looks like I can get the part through pelican. When I read the BMW TIS it suggests you need to use a special tool 245363 (removal) and (245364) for the install.
Has anyone done this repair before and have any advice. Do I need this two tools, if so where is the best place to get them. |
Anyone able to comment of this please??
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Special Tool #83 30 0 491 781 includes the following
24 5 361 Threaded bush 24 5 362 Union nut 24 5 363 Bush 24 5 364 Nut 24 5 365 Slip sleeve 24 5 366 Bush the retail price is $46.95 and can be ordered from any BMW dealership. There are currently 19 of this tool in the country (18 in warehouses) and 1 shown in stock at Keeler BMW / Keeler MINI NY |
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I use these guys to ship to my hotel in California
BMW Parts - Authentic OEM BMW Parts direct from BMW of South Atlanta | BMW of South Atlanta |
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Since it's a GM 5L40e or 5L50e trans I'm sure you can just see if a GM tool supplier has the tool.
One of these tool may work for you: Amazon.com: AMPRO T75866 Transmission Seal Remover and Installer GM: Home Improvement Amazon.com: Transmission Seal Remover/Installer Gm: Automotive I think I used the first one for my E34 touring. |
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Hey Dave,
Did you end up doing this job yet? When my X was in monday I was told my selector shaft seal is leaking too. Did this job end up being very difficult? |
Not yet, I,m waiting to get another copy of the BMW TIS 2450001 which provides to instruction and pictures of what to do. Hopefully it will arrive this week.
I purchased the BMW tool so just need the TIS to start. Will post feedback when I have done this job. |
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Please update. Thanks. Steve |
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The issue is the gear selector diameter and the BMW tool which fits on the shaft is very very tight and won,t slide on. As I didn't,t want to force anything and needed the car for the next day I put it back the way it was. My current thinking of the issue of the where the selector rod is exposed to the road elements it has somehow pick up dirt/whatever....maybe a good clean of the exposed shaft will help. Anyway will have another go this weekend. This time with the front drive shaft removed so can get a view of why it won't slide on. Will also do in the morning when the shaft has not warmed up from use during the day. Will update when done with pic |
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I would also like to replace this seal on my 3.0i 2006 AT...but I'm having a hard time already finding the seal.
The part looks greyed out on real oem #2... what's that supposed to mean? No longer available? Any help would be appreciated https://xoutpost.com/data:image/png;...AAAElFTkSuQmCC |
Fairly certain you want this:
TIMKEN 8792S {Click Info Button for Alternate/OEM Part Numbers} Info Automatic trans.; 5 speed trans.; Trans. code 5L40-E More Information for TIMKEN 8792S EDIT: Timken seal will fit, but is shallow, the better options are: GM/AC Delco 8644709 or Transmax 84072A |
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I really wouldn't like to mess up the old one by taking it out, to discover the new one isn't fitting... Why isn't BMW selling this seal? Makes no sense to me... |
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I personally think they are making more profit on replacement parts and service then on a new car...
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(listed about half way down the link below with an actual photo; the GM number is 8644709). https://cobratransmission.com/index....ort=20a&page=2 |
Thanks to both! I just ordered the part from a transmission overhaul company here in Europe. In fact on the invoice that arrived, it states seal for 5L40E transmission... so the information you provided was correct.
Will post something back as soon as I've got it installed, looking already forward to freaking out while taking the old one out. |
Timely thread for me. I just replaced the filter and gasket and noticed some dampness around the shaft seal. I have the shaft tool for a GM tranny and will get this done too. Thanks for the part #. Realoem was not of much help
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A tis bulletin is o.k., but a video on how to use the tool to remove the seal is priceless. The trans is not in a BMW but this is the correct procedure for using the tool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgjREMpHaNs More video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c8OXpZyuBo |
Finally replaced it today. Seal number is 8644709!
I didn't need a extractor tool in my case...actually the seal had moved towards the selector rod actuator by itself and I guess this has caused the leak. The seal had totally hardened out The most difficult part was getting the new seal in place. Using a 14mm socket with the help of a lever against the 4wd drive axle is the best option in my eye. Pushing by hand or hammering did not lead to anywhere. |
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And it looks like @ScottZHP's post #15 is for the wrong seal, and his post #19 is for the correct one, right? Attachment 74186 |
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I did this the other day on my 2001 E53 3.0i, with the 5L40-E/GM5 (A5S 390R) 5-speed auto transmission made by GM, with 186k miles.
The correct seal was the one mentioned in post #19, GM # 8644709, imported from Detroit. And I also (needed and) bought a special tool - GM transmission seal tool, Evercraft # 776-9250. I got the tool locally at NAPA, for about $8: https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7769250 and the seal on Amazon for about $5. On the tool: I would not be surprised if that GM transmission seal tool works on all 100 zillion GM transmissions ever made. I did not see any others, and the labeling simply says GM transmission ... Encouraged by the post above, I first made a quick attempt to get the seal out without using a tool. Would not have been possible without the special tool. Not worth the risk of scratching the Aluminum bore. The tool has 3 parts. Looking at the photo in the packaging below, the thing on the left side is just a thick steel cylindrical tube for pressing the new bushing in. A properly sized socket should do at least as well. On the right side is the black steel sleeve with a screw screwed into it. Due to the driveshaft being in the way, I did not use the screw at all, other than to try and fail and decide not to use it. So of those 3 parts, the only special one you really need is the black sleeve. It is a hair over the 1/2" shaft diameter so it fits over the AT selector rod shaft, and then has a very thin wall at the top so it can fit between the rod and the old bushing. And coarse threads there are to dig into the rubber (or soft steel, I guess) bushing, so it can be pulled out. Some notes on the job: Tool had to fit over a ~0.503" diameter shaft, and was about 0.501" ID, as I received it, so I reamed the top portion slightly with a 1/2" drill bit. Difficult due to close proximity of driveshaft there. I did not use the bolt part of the tool, just the threaded sleeve. I screwed the tool in using a 5/8" ratcheting wrench, kept going until I could see the bushing was being pulled out. So I knew it had a good grip on it at that point. The tool is very thin walled up at the tip, and has coarse threads, so it is meant to slip in between the steel shaft and the rubber seal, and the threads are meant to grip into the rubber. This is when the screw part of the tool is then supposed to screw in on the backside, and pull the tool+bushing out together by pushing on the end of the steel shaft. But this would have been very difficult due to the driveshaft being in the way. So I just wiggled and pulled the tool out and the bushing came out nicely. The tool to press the new seal in was not great. A socket might have been better. A piece of the edge of the rubber got clipped when installing it, but should not be an issue. Again, it was difficult due to the driveshaft being in the way. Afterwards, there was still in-out play of the shaft, but no more leaks. Attachment 74229 Attachment 74230 Attachment 74231 Attachment 74232 |
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So I also need to do this job, just turned 168k. I bought both the Transmax and Timken seals to compare. Both are about $3 at Rockauto.
The ID and OD are identical (0.5in, 0.75in) , and both are metal clad. The difference is the seal depth. The Transmax seal (84072A) is about twice as deep as the Timken and is rubber coated. Will be using the deeper version. Transmax looks identical to the AC Delco/GM version. |
The seal on mine was the part number you cited in post #19, looked exactly like the stock pic I posted in post #24, and came in the packaging I showed in post #25. And the one that came out looked just like it, except the exposed surface was hard and cracked and came of in little crumbly pieces. Then the rest of it came out in one piece.
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I managed to get my seal out with the Evercraft tool but I had to hammer it in there before it grabbed enough. I took my drive shaft out completely BTW.
But I destroyed the new seal trying to get it installed with the tool the kit came with. I just ordered two more. Just so I'm not going insane, does the seal go in 'cup-side' first toward the vehicle centerline, or with the cup facing outward? I'm pretty sure it's the former, but it sure goes on over the shaft a lot easier via the latter. |
https://xoutpost.com/attachments/x5-...nual-lever.jpg
The top of the seal as shown in the picture should be facing out. Put some oil on the lip of the seal as well as the circumference of the seal, and make sure the bore that you are inserting the seal into is CLEAN. |
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Yup that's what I figured... And I did clean the bore and shaft very well and used a touch of red grease, but it just did not want to install over the shaft... Well, I got two more tries coming my way via Amazon prime. What a pain. And I thought the hard part was going to be removing the front drive shaft lol. |
I would get a better insertion tool, perhaps a PVC plastic pipe that is about 1" in diameter or whatever the diameter of the seal is. I have used plastic PVC pipe from the plumbing dept at the local home improvement store to use as a driver to install oil seals.
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Are you having issues getting the seal over the shaft or in the bore?
The fitting over the shaft should be quite easy - it's a sealing lip that is flexible. The fitting in the bore is actually rather tight and the seal is quite difficult to get in - but I never would suggest to grease the fitting of any seal in it's fitting bore. The seal needs to stick in it's position with a dry, non lubricated fit. You could eventually try to use a little bit of fuel applied to the outer diameter of the seal, as some fuel will make it slippery at the start and then evaporate, leaving the seal with no lubrication once fitted. But you would have to be quite quick in applying the seal before the fuel actually evaporates. Having done this operation a few months ago, I don't think that is possible. But you could give it a try. Long story short. I used a socket with the right diameter to push (hammering is not a option, it destroys the seal) the seal in place. Used a lever against the drive shaft to get enough force to push it in -> so the drive shaft in place comes in actually quite handy for the fitting process. Good luck! |
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I did this about a month ago, summarized in post #25. I did not remove the drive shaft, although it should be easier with it removed. That post has a photo of the tool I used, but as I say there, a properly sized socket would have been at least as good, and possibly better.
I agree with upallnight's answer on orientation in post #29. I used a little grease to help slip it on. If you really don't want to use that, I'd go to some silicone spray, but am pretty sure you will need some lubricant on there. I levered it on there using a wrecking bar similar to the one shown in the photo. The width helped me keep it aligned, and I levered against the frame rail right there behind the driveshaft. The key is to have it aligned. If you try to lever and the bushing and socket are not aligned properly, it will not work. And I do know it is tough to do all that lying on your back. Attachment 74455 |
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Good info regarding no lube, but I can't see how this is going to go on without something, even some trans fluid maybe. And my drive-shaft is removed BTW so the lever action you described wouldn't be possible unless I re-install first. But it did seem like it was having a harder time getting over the shaft, vs. going into the bore, but that might have been an illusion. Maybe I need to re-try assuming it's the outer bore that's fighting back! |
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Thanks to both you guys- http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i1...psddueru2g.jpg |
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The friction you are encountering when mounting the seal can only come from the outer bore. The selector rod has to be free to rotate, so it's absolutely not a tight fit when speaking about the shaft / seal clearance. This said, the seal is hold in place only by the tight outer bore / seal clearance. Obviously, because of that, it's supposed to be a tight fit, the seal should not move once installed. Applying lubricant on the outside of the seal will not compromise it's ability to seal... it will only lower the ability of the seal to hold itself in place. For sure I was also tempted to add some lubricant to make the job easier. But hey...after 12 years of service, the old seal seal moved toward the outside on it's own (generating the leak) so that given and including my knowledge on mounting rotary shaft seals, I did not do it. For your reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDVzAtU8xDc Minute 2:10 ... Anyway. If you decide to mount it without lubrication, due to it's tight fit, you will probably NOT be able to get the seal in place without a leverage force. Eventually it could help to first let the transmission warm up (heat will increase the size of the seal bore on the transmission) but you will still need a "press" action. Pay a lot of attention on getting the seal pushed in straight,mostly for the first mm, this is vital! Also...choose a socket that will applicate the force as close as possible to the outside diameter of the seal! The more you go towards the inner bore of the seal, the weaker it's structure gets! If you decide to mount it with some minor lubricant, it will eventually work and hold in place. Noone can tell if the fitting is tight enough to take some lubricant or not....only time will tell. But no major damage will ocurr if the seal moves towards the outside on it's own... the only thing that could happen is that it starts to leak again. So if you're not able to get it on safely without lubricant, try it this way. Probably 8 out of 10 mechanics would do it... |
The rubber coated seal needs to be and should be lubricated for installation. There also probably is a slight burr on the end of the shaft where the lever goes against which needs to be dealt with for the installation tool to fit over since it is a close fit. Some sort of sleeve should be used over the shaft if possible as well. The BMW version of the seal installer comes with plastic sleeves.
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You can use a lubricant that I use for my bicycles. It's called "White Lightning". It a lubricant suspended in an alcohol solution. Eventually, the alcohol will evaporate.
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But when I did mine, I did not lever against the drive shaft. I was worried I might tweak that and cause an imabalance, so I hardly touched it. There is a frame rail outboard of the driveshaft that I levered against. |
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Extra agreement is directed at the bold part above. That goes for pressing in almost anything. It applies here too, except you might think it should be easier than it is. It's not. It took me some finesse to get the seal on straight, the pressing tool (I should have just ditched that and used a better socket) in place and aligned, and then that levering, ironically named wrecker bar pushing just right. Then it went in, after a few failed attempts. As mentioned briefly above, the width of the wrecker bar helped keep this pushing surface flat, which gave me one less thing to worry about vs. using a screwdriver for example. Tough to hold everything in place, then apply the force in just the right direction. And on upallnight's White Lightning, I've got some of that too. Can't bike any more. It is wax in suspension. So it won't leave unless it melts and runs out. We used to use it here for mountain biking in the rainy season since oil would just be washed out with the water and mud. But the wax would stick on the chain forever, it seemed. |
Thanks for the fantastic comments guys! As I have 8 BMWs in my family that I collect, restore, and maintain, I spend a LOT of time on the various forums at bimmerforums, but rarely get responses with the level of detail and enthusiasm for mundane things like this! So glad I signed up for xoutpost.com! Aside from my '01 X5 in my sig, I also maintain my wifes '15 X1, and my dad's '07 X3. I'm surprised I haven't signed up sooner.
Anyways, you all have given me a lot to think about for this coming Sunday, and my two new ACDelco seals just arrived a few minutes ago. The seal I destroyed came in a different baggie, but appear to be identical to these new ones. The seal I messed up got torn in the center ring BTW, hence my initial belief that it was the shaft that was giving me the problem (keeping in mind I was using the crappy seal insertion tool with a small orange plastic hammer). I will be sure to take a close look at the shaft before the next round of fun. Can't wait to call this one good and then powerwash all the damn ATF off the driveway so my wife stops yelling! I have a pan under it now BTW, and not surprisingly, it leaks about the same rate as with the old seal, no more, no less! |
Definitely ditch the hammer. That will not get this one done. Pretty sure of that. It will just bounce things around and out.
Looking at your photo (BTW, you live in a beautiful place - wow), you might have better access with just a single jack stand at the jack point behind the front wheel on the left side. That jack/lift thing is probably right in your way, and easy visibility / access helps. And you might also find that jacked like I'm saying, you won't be leaking any ATF at all out of there. I don't think I was. Another finer point on a little thing - I did mine at night, partly due to time constraints, but I found (as I often do) that I have better visibility working on small dark things under the car at night time with a good head lamp, etc. vs. in the daytime when everything is bright and when I look under the car everything looks dark because my eyes are adjusted for the bright daylight. Every little assistance might help get past this simple but tricky thing. |
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Regarding the Quickjack, once you slide yourself in from the front of the car, you have 100% access to everything, and the 18-21" lifting height is perfect; not too high, not too low. Further, I spent the $1400 for this lift to avoid crawling under cars supported by floor jacks and jack stands after all these years. I do still use them sometimes for quick driveway oil changes and wheel changes, but for anything more serious, the Quickjack is my go-to lift. Not to mention in this, case, I still had to deal with the driveshaft installation, and having all 4 wheels off the ground makes that much easier. That said, I ended up throwing my back out moving my Quickjack yesterday! I have the largest 7000lb model, and each side weighs 101 pounds. One end has wheels, but even lifting the 50lb half just the wrong way was enough to put me out. I'm actually home from work as I wouldn't be able to get in and out of a car right now. So although the Quickjack is the safest portable car lift I know of, they can still be dangerous if you don't take all precautions! Fortunately one of my best friends is a freelance Porsche mechanic and he came to the rescue yesterday. He helped me get the car on the lift (during rain and wind!) and was then able to install the damn shifter shaft seal for me...but not after destroying one of them, just like I had. I did tell him to install the driveshaft so he'd have something to pry against, and that worked, but the real problem here was the crappy insertion tool (as some of you noted). We ended up using 14 & 15mm sockets instead. The tool that comes with the kit is about .750" in diameter which is OK (although .760" would be better) but the walls are too thick, and with the selector shaft being as sharp as it is, you will destroy the outer dust ring every time if you use the tool. We think that the tool could be easily modified to thin out the walls and make a smooth impingement area, but it's just as easy to use a socket. And BTW, he did use a little red grease to help get the seal started. The drive shaft was then re-installed and the X5 was tested for proper shift linkage connection (hard to screw that up). I lost the damn wave washer for the linkage however, and it looks like you have to buy a $19 kit to get the washer. Not too worried about it at the moment as it just seems to be there to take up the slop. A few months ago I did a full driveline flush: front diff, rear diff, x-fer case, and of course the GM transmission drain, filter & fill. However we noticed the new rubber gasket that was installed is cracking all around already and is seeping on some of the bolts. Anybody else have this experience as well? I'm thinking of doing another drain and fill and filter (since I didn't do a full flush anyway) and buying the OEM gasket if they're available (which appeared to be rubber coated metal). The replacement piece was just solid rubber. Bleh. I did keep the original gasket however, and I'll be tempted to re-use that one with a little gasket sealer vs. using another new rubber one if I can't get an OEM gasket. I also did an oil change while the under-panel was off, and replaced the oil sensor's quad-ring which was seeping a little. Also discovered blue coolant dripping on our heads... from a very obvious hairline crack on the expansion tank! So the X5 is still out of commission until that is replaced (along with the trans cooler thermostat while I'm there). I won't be overhauling the entire cooling system at this time, as I have two other M54 cars that need it worse, and they haven't had 10% of the level of maintenance this X5 has had over its lifetime (I have 17 years of service records from the previous, fastidious owners). UPDATE: the OEM transmission pan gasket appears to be available: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...t/24117524707/ |
The solid rubber trans pan gasket is crap. Go with the metal composite(sandwich) gasket. You are right that you would have been better off reinstalling the old gasket. No sealer would be best, you need to careful with gasket sealer on automatics.
2 post hoists are getting to be pretty cheap as well. |
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Thanks for the re-affirm on the crappy solid rubber gaskets... I'll plan on doing another flush and fill with an OEM gasket...oh well. :dunno: I'd love to have a 2 post or any serious car lift, but my garage only has 8' ceilings with attic storage above. The Quickjack is the best alternative in my situation, and can be used on either side of the garage, outdoors, or even to a friend's house. They make 12VDC versions too for track junkies! With the 7000lb model like mine, I've lifted everything from my E31 8 series cars, my E38 7 series, my X5, my E39's, E36, E46, all the way down to my Z3 M Coupe...Pretty versatile! |
Anyone selling the seal removal tool that you no longer need? Nowhere to be found in canada lol
There's some on Amazon but for GM 4L60 Not sure if it would work Metalblock Transmission Shifter Seal Remover/Installer,Compatible with GM 200, 200C, 200-4R TURBO 350, 350C TURBO 400, 425, 475 GM 700-R4 GM 4L60 GM Allison - 540，Includes Seal https://a.co/d/1FCjjl3 |
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