Methanol injection and Nitrous installed
 

Well, against advice, caution and reason I have added methanol injection and a 150 shot of nitrous to my X5 4.6 that already had Dinan cold air package, throttle body, air flow meter, stage 4 engine software,transmission software and free flow exhaust. I did decide to have Stett Performance, a local BMW specialist, do the install to eliminate some of the risk.

It was well worth it!!!! I am VERY pleased with performance!!! Launch is amazing with some tire spin and it just gets stronger and stronger through the gears. Will do dyno runs in the near future to document the gain with just methanol and then with nitrous boost. With methanol and nitrous I should get around 165 gain in HP and will have to see from dyno runs how much torque gain.

Control for the methanol injection is in the glove box as control is seldom used. Controls for the bottle heater and nitrous are in the center console where the CDs store. Methanol tank is in the right side panel in the back when the sub woofer used to be. Methanol pump is behind the trailer hitch cover plate. Nitrous bottle is exposed in the back cargo area unless the cargo cover is extended. Nitrous purges through vents in front of the windshield which are visible if you know what you are looking for under the hood. All else is pretty much hidden though stealth was not the goal. System is set up so that Nitrous won't fire unless there is appropriate methanol present. Methanol system is active on demand in daily driving. Demand can be adjusted with controller. Since methanol is there without the nitrous there should be some gain in mileage and performance without nitrous. So far it looks like I am getting about 2 more miles to a gallon though some of that cost reduction is lost due to cost of boost juice. Nitrous system is a NOS system. Methanol injection is from Snow performance. Engine sounds deeper under acceleration with or without Nitrous.

Will update when dyno runs are complete or if there are any problems that occur.

your missing one thing besides dyno...WHERE ARE THE PICTURES AND VIDEOS?!?!:swear:

I will take some pictures though haven't posted pictures before so will need to find how to do so.

Cant wait for pics and video! =D

:worthless:

Someone had to do it right?? Cant wait to see the vids!

DUDE, YOUR THE MAN!!!!!!!!

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Wow you are crazy. We need to see a vid of it hauling ass.

First picture shows Nitrous Express tank in back with Snow performance bottle in side compartment. Hatch cover fits in place as usual.

Second picture is of the console where the gauge, red purge button and toggle switches for activation of nitrous and bottle heater are located. LED lights when methanol is empty.

At the top of the third picture you can see the purge plumbling.

Fourth picture is the methanol controller in the glove box.

Fifth picture shows the metanol pump which is mounted behind the trailer hitch cover. Hatch cover fits in place as usual.

That is indeed awsome! Im just curious as to why you chose to mount the meth pump in that location??

I was thinking of injecting hydrogen before...
anyone think of that?

I wanted the methanol tank accessible for easy refill and where any spills would drain out without any damage so that is the reason it is in the rear compartment.

It is best if the pump is lower than all other components so it can't be syphoned out and lose its prime when the system is inactive. Since the pump pressurizes the line to the engine it is best for safety if it is outside the car and the line runs to the front underneath anyway so it is an easy plumbing point.The pump is not visible unless the cover is not in place and easily visible and accessible from the below and from the back when the cover is removed.

Clean install, impressive. You must be the first X5 with nitrous, so props for that.

It's important to have people that look status-quo in the face and say.... "f*#k that"

Way to be different.

Thanks, appreciate your comments!

congrats! love the setup. hopefully it lasts long.
How much did that run you? cost..

Video please!!

I can't wait for the vids. Do one where you're nitrous snorting (purge) :rofl:

If you are looking for an acceleration video, it will be 2-3 weeks before I can get it done. Plan is to get some dyno time to see base line, with meth and then with meth and nitrous. Will likely do a 0-60 video at the same time.

I can do a walk-around video of the install and a demo of how it works sooner though pictures show most of the install.

So is the methanol running all the time? If so, how long does it last? What does it cost to fill, and where does one get methanol?

Methanol activation is determined by injector load and can be set as desired so it is active all the time. The methanol cools the engine, cleans the engine and increase mileage and performance by increasing the octane level of the gas.

The blue 20 below windshield washer fluid with not additives will work as it is about 50% methanol and water which is what is needed. I buy boost juice from Snow performance so I am sure of what I am getting. A case of 4 gallons runs around $35.

How much I use depends on how hard I drive. I drive pretty hard for short bursts from traffic lights or enter the freeway. I fill the methanol tank no more than once per tank of gas. I can fill the tank 3 times with one gallon.

I will do a walk around, activate the system and purge it video toward the end of next week or sooner.

While I have not done so, because of the increase in the octane contributed by the methanol I could run regular gas and still have an octane level exceeding 93 octane.

Thanks for the info. I always thought the main benefit of methanol injection was to allow turbo cars to run more boost. I guess it would allow more advance on a N/A car, but I can't imagine that your Dinan tune in your stock ECU could adjust for the higher "octane".

I'd be very interested to see the dyno numbers here. Perhaps before you go to a dyno you can time a 50-80mph run with and without methanol to see if there's any improvement, (I'm sure turning on the nitrous will be a huge change!)

Even assuming a 2mpg gain from the methanol, (which I do not understand), if the methanol costs you $35 per tank of gas, you are only saving about $8 in gas, so that does not pay, unless it delivers performance. If you use $6 washer fluid...that's another story, (at which point, you could just share the big washer fluid resevoir!)

I don't have a stock ECU. I have Dinan Stage 4 engine software and all other Dinan engine and mods available.

The boost juice is $35 a case. There are four gallons to a case. Each gallon lasts for about 3 tanks of gas. But you are correct, better mileage will not result in a cost savings that would ever result in reasonable payback. Better mileage was not in my value equation. I mentioned it because it could be in someone else's if they were willing to use regular gas instead of premium and have the system installed early in the life of the vehicle.

Per Snow Performance information, I should get about a 10% increase in horsepower and torque with their system. That percentage of increase should increase some with 150 shot of nitrous added. Yes, the most common application of methanol injection is on turbo or supercharged engines. The primary reason I installed methanol injection is for safety-- to prevent a lean mixture or knocking. System is set up so that unless Methanol is present the Nitrous won't fire.

I could have used the existing windshield washer tank but I didn't want to add the risk of someone filling with the wrong fluid or fluid with an additive. Best place for the methanol pump was in the back so rather than running a double line from the front back to the pump and then back to the front again, the separate tank in the back was chosen. Most of Stett Performance installs are in the back so there was influence there also.

I fully understand the benefits of cooling the intake charge, that is what your methanol injection will accomplish. And with that nitrous shot, it seems like a good idea.

But let's not confuse the basic issues of how methanol affects the octane rating of gasoline, or whether it is a cost-effective way to boost octane. It isn't.

From wiki, the AKI of methanol is 99. RON is higher, sure, but let's use the same scale as our pump fuel, which is AKI.

If you use a gallon of boost juice to a tank of fuel, you are running around a 20:1 ratio. However, the boost juice is half water, so it is more like a 40:1 ratio with the methanol, as the water won't help. If you mix 87 AKI fuel with a 40:1 ratio of a 99 AKI fuel, you will be lucky to get 88 out of it.

You will get fewer problems due to the lower charge temperature, so it may behave like a fuel with a higher AKI, but it doesn't actually have a higher AKI.

Since methanol has so much less energy than gasoline, and we haven't changed the timing to take advantage of a higher effective AKI, I don't see how there is any more power available, other than the benefits of cleaning out deposits.

I am open to corrections if my math is somehow wrong.

JCL,

I think he's actually using 1/3 gallon per tank of gas. Look at his post again. He said he can fill the tank 3 times with one gallon. And he fills the tank 1 time per tank of fuel depending on how aggressive he's driving.

So, that should change the numbers, right?

$35 purchase 4 gallons of boost juice. One gallon of boost juice is 1/4 of $35 dollars or $8.75 per gallon. One gallon with fairly hard driving will cover 3 tanks of gas or $2.96 per tank of gas.

The methanol is controlled by injector pulse width and/or boost. It is not a constant flow from idle to full throttle. Current setting is that under 20% pulse width of the injectors there is no methanol injected. 20% pulse width starting point is about a 65 mph cruising speed. It ramps up from there to the maximum methanol contribution at 80% of pulse width. That means at full throttle anytime the maximum amount of methanol is injected.
There should be gain in performance at full throttle because the addition of methanol will cause the computer to allow more timing.

You are correct that the fuel behaves like a higher octane rather than actually increasing octane. According to literature I can run regular due rather than premium and get the performance of premium or higher. With premium I should get the behavior of race gas. I will try some regular the next time my tank is empty.

I have no expectations of mileage increase, if, in fact it will increase mileage at any setting. Snow Performance made no mileage % claim though it is stated there will be mileage increase due to leaner mixture and efficiency. I will check the mileage for grins.

There was nothing in my consideration about saving money. The goal was to improve performance minimizing the risk with 150 shot of nitrous.

Yes, that will make it even less impact. I used the Snow Performance figure of gallon per tank.

I understand your motivations, and agree with the reasons for installing the system. It is just that there were points raised above about power increases, others using this instead of higher AKI fuel, and that the AKI number would change.

Your tune may advance the timing beyond what 92 AKI permits, and so you may get more power. For practically everyone else reading the thread, increased AKI is of no value and will not provide more power, since the timing won't advance beyond what BMW deemed safe for 92 AKI.

I am not an expert and that is why I will be doing dyno runs to see actual results. I do know that timing is certainly major factor but it is not the only reason to expect performance gains from methanol injection. I may not be explaining things well, sorry if that is so. Check out frequently asked questions at Snow Performance : Snow Performance Water Methanol Injection Systems. The Best Most Accurate Gas and Diesel Water Methanol Injection Strategies for Fuel Injected Carbureted Turbocharged Supercharged.

As I read it and have had verified, other than by dyno, a methanol system will increase mileage. Some are sold to do just that and claims are 5-15% improvement. Allows for leaner air/fuel mixture and increased timing.

Also, again as I have researched even without increased timing there will be performance improvements with methanol injection due to reduced intake temperature and improved charge air density. My tech says I get increased timing as the computer doesn't retard timing as much as it would with just gas. I guess that means more timing lower in the RPM ranges?

And no, I don't believe everything I read or am told.

Great job. Can't wait to hear more.

Interesting.
This is something that I was looking into for my now sold C-Mod race car. I was looking for ways to cool things down for better burn and increased fuel economy. Fuel economy in racing conditions can be a game changer.
I suspect that the Alpha N tune on my S50B32 engine (euro)...which had a mass air meter delete would've also created a bit more power.

Good for you man. Awesome installation!:thumbup:

I spoke with tech support at Snow performance. They make a system just to increase mileage. They also make an add on for the performance system that will increase mileage. I have the performance system without the add on.

The amount of metanol injected is proprietary information so I can't provide a ratio. The amount has to do with the horsepower of the engine and other factors that result in the most efficient burn.

Another way to look at this is that the amount of methanol is not linear. So, in theory, the ratio of water/methanol could be 40-1 at the pulse width the controller is programmed to begin to add methanol/water to the air fuel mixture. And, in theorythe ratio could be 1-1 at full demand So if the engine was at full demand for the duration of the time it takes to empty a tank of boost juice, the tank would empty faster than if would if the pulse width was at the miniman demand where Methanol/water is added. Generally, with a performance system there is no methanol/water until 5% greater than pulse width demand at cruising speed.

The system for mileage works differently, different jets, and greatest contribution to mileage increase when it is activated when passing or during uphill grades--the more efficient air-fuel mixture because of the addition of methanol/water results in a mileage increase in those situations.

I didn't do this for better mileage or cost saving so I did not purchase that system or the add-on for the stage 3 system.

yes a 4.6is on meth is right, that is insane.................

this set up sounds awesome. i am considering adding the snow meth kit to my 2011 e70 50i. have you ever experienced any problems with it?

No problems but I did add a check valve to keep the meth from draining into the intake tube. I suggest you do that as part of the install. I used the snow kit with the controller so I can adjust when the Meth starts and when it reaches max spray. I never use anything but boost juice from Snow. Install takes time but it is not complicated. I had to put the tank in the rear. If you can find a place under the hood or are willing to use your washer tank the install would be easier than mine was.

Good luck and if you have any other questions fell free.

thx for the quick response! i can only do the simplest of DIY projects and this one would be waaay over my head. i'll share your feedback with the mechanic. i like where you put the tank. i have free space in that location as well and dont want to mod the washer tank. how much additional hp do you think you are getting?

bcredliner, did you get the dyno results? Can we get an update on this system... reliability, performance, maintenance issues, extra speeding tickets (lol), etc?

Yes, we used a dyno for tuning but I never talk about HP/TQ results. I will say this--response to nitrous hit is instant. Very different than turbos and superchargers that are also more expensive mods. It's safe and tons of fun and easy to install. The looks I get when I purge the system are hilarious. No one expects an X5 to have nitrous.

No problems with original nitrous install. Just ordered the second Nitrous gauge for console a few days ago but I broke them they didn't fail. Since original install I have gone from one 10lb tank to two 15lb tanks. Added a second bottle opener and a switch to send power to either tank or both at the same time and have bottle blankets on both. No changes or problems with Snow meth system.

I just decided to spend another $5000 on the 4.6. Just ordered a scramble button for a second stage of nitrous. Will have to see on dyno how much I can add, could be as high as a 75 shot on top of the 150. Then comes timing chain job and head mods. I will be doing some engine appearance stuff when I have it apart. I have to replace the suspension airbags. I will finally install the 4.10 diff gears when I do the bags. I haven't had it out since last November, been driving my wife's X5M. I added a tune and modified the exhaust on the X5M so it is lots of fun. If I don't fall in love with the 4.6 again when this work is done it will be time to sell it. Right now odds are I will drive it for a few months after work is done and then sell it. A lot depends on the pandemic. If no car shows or meet and greets a lot of the fun is talking to other motor heads.

I don't like getting the bottles filled but that is only because I have to drive 30 miles to source and sit there for about an hour while the bottles are in a freezer getting cold enough so nitrous will transfer properly. And, I have to prepare to use it. Be sure the bottle is proper pressure, might need to heat it up. Open the bottle, purge the system, make sure there is meth in tank. On the plus side I can drive it without the nitrous and it's still fun and doesn't stress the engine.

I got caught just after I installed the nitrous doing 70 in a 35. One of those stoplight to stoplight encounters. Cop was a motor head. He looked it over, we talked about the mods and his car. He knocked it down to 10 over. I took the driving safety course so it didn't go on my record. Nothing since, that was 4-5 years ago. I don't do any top speed runs. Seldom over 110 unless on ramp is a long one.

My supercharger never runs out of power! I never have to refill.

My bad, I do have to refill my methanol tank.

Your nitrous was $5000. My supercharger was $4400.

I am just fact checking.

No, original nitrous install was about $2600. The $5000 is additional dollars I am now spending, much of that on performance improvements. The cost of the nitrous upgrade is just under $500 and that includes purchasing another spare bottle so I don't need to get them filled as often.

The complete Dinan supercharger kit was over $11,000. The Dinan kit on the 4.6 increased HP to 451 at 6000 RPMs and 439 ft/lbs of torque at 4500 RPMs.
When I was looking at the Dinan package it had to be installed by an authorized Dinan shop. The installation cost was based on 27.6 labor hours.

The ESS supercharger kit from KO which is still available is just over $9000.

I purchase mods based on performance gain per dollar spent. Performance gain is based on how much the 0-60 time improves. The supercharger would have been more than 4 times the cost for less gain in performance.

I finished rewiring all the controls in the console last week. New boost gauge arrived a few minutes ago.

Wow! I did not know those kits cost that much! I obviously received a fantastic deal from RMS, considering I have a V3Si supercharger rated at up to 22lbs of boost. That’s good for over 700+ horsepower.

Yes you definitely took a unique approach. You always state 0-60 time improvements. Is it because you are focused on quarter mile performance?

My approach was to create a E53 that is street legal, and that offered a replication as close to the E53 V12 as possible.

How much boost are you running? Certainly not 22lbs.

I am not interested in time to top speed or top speed capability. That's too fast without a roll cage and way to fast on the street.

The reason the benchmark is 0-60 is because that is the standard measurement used to compare performance of vehicles. As examples, the 4.6 0-60 stock time is 6.2. The new X5M Competition stock time to 60 is 3.7-8 seconds.
My goal is the best time from traffic light to traffic light. As far as handling the goal is to be able to take a curve at 30 more than the speed limit with the tires slightly singing.

The last time I seen the gauge hit the limit, it was at 11 lbs.

However, the E53 is in the shop as we chat. I had the intake manifold removed, all brand new gaskets, all brand new vacuum lines, brand new supercharger silicone fittings, brand new DISA, brand new MAF, and brand new O2’s.

So 12lbs may be where I am at if there were any leaks, which I am sure there was.

BMS in Houston said, road tests were producing a marked gain in power.

No. Anything above 500hp requires an engine rebuild. $25,000 minimum for blue printing and the whole 9. This option is not for me at this time.

I agree, me neither.

My goal was to build an E53 that is track capable. I have never been interested in straight line speed.

I've spent countless hours looking at how far I can go with the 4.6. The bottom end of the engine might take it but the transmission and drivetrain won't take near 700HP even if you can find a way to get to 700HP. The stock engine and drivetrain, while conservative, was only designed for an engine generating 340HP and 382TQ. With the mods I am doing now I expect the transmission will fail soon after. I have a source ready to beef it up and increase the torque convertor stall speed. If I keep chasing expensive weakest link failures it will be time to back off on nitrous until it is reliable and then sell it and start over with an X5M.

The X5 is very heavy. Unless top speed is ones goal I think mods need to be torque focused. Torque gets you going and HP keeps you going. Light to light races are usually won in the first 60 feet. I think the best torque curve for an X5 is one that increases very rapidly to peak, stays fairly flat and falls off slowly after HP curve crosses over. When I started I researched rear mounted twin turbos and superchargers. The primary reason I chose nitrous was it was the only route that delivered the torque curve I wanted.

There is plenty of torque with a supercharged M54, provided the vanos upgrade has been performed.

When discussing 600 or 700 hundred horse power with a manual gearbox, I would be inclined to keep my shifts extremely conservative. JMHO..

Not jumping into the middle of you guys fun, but I will say that it’s all in how you want the power to come on and the purpose of the build...

Back in the day a buddy and I both had foxbody mustangs, mine was an 87, his was an 89. He was running a well built 302 with a kennybell supercharger putting out 520 dyno verified horsepower and I was running a very well built 302 putting out 405 naturally aspirated horsepower, also dyno verified.

Every time we raced (light to light) he stomped me (obviously)... So, when I scrapped the cash together I picked up a 125 hp nitrous worx nitrous system, which in theory put me at 530 hp to his 520 - not enough of a difference to be concerned with honestly - but I can say - he never beat me again. We would come off the line about equal and as his built power... I was gone!

Again - all in what you’re looking for and the purpose of your build. Turbos and superchargers - in my opinion - are “long haul power”, quarter mile type, nitrous does it too but light to light... nitrous is OMG!


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Methanol injection and Nitrous installed
 

I had an 87 as well. One of my favorites!

I never had a problem smoking the tires!

Oh man I LOVED my 87, I think back to how stupid I was to sell it.... so much so that I just picked up another black on grey 93 notchback [emoji106]

93 is a 5sp, 306 (bored .30 over) with trickflow heads, ported cobra intake and all the goodies.

I just couldn’t get the performance that I wanted out of my X (for a price that I wanted to spend) so I had to get a new toy - or, another toy as my wife would say [emoji16]

I have a soft spot in my heart for the foxbody mustangs to this day... I’m actually looking at another 93 notchack that is still all stock that my son would love to have one day.


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Methanol injection and Nitrous installed
 

I got my 87’ and it stunk like fuel. Bad fuel cell, if you know what I mean. My Stang was awesome!

My bank account and I go round after round with my E53.

Methanol injection and Nitrous installed
 

BC, there has to be a way to build it!

Make sure you take a look at your main bearings!

Ha - I know that feeling! I just pulled my rear calipers to paint them blue and found the bottom bolt on the passenger side caliper broken off! Thank goodness it was just the head and the shank stayed in the caliper or it would have been catastrophic! It’s totally a love hate... mainly me hating that I love it so much!



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I wonder if you could pull the shafts and diff gears and have the shaft heads cut back and say “41” spline ends welded on and “41” spline diff gears cut - would cost a pretty penny for sure but I’m sure would add some strength... but there’s still the trans and transfer case to contend with... and I’m sure any mods to it would cost more than another good used E53 [emoji50]

Never opened the bottom end of one yet, but I’d be curious if you could main girdle a 4.4/4.6, hmmm


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The E53 has a spell on me!

I am sure BC and I have bought a few used E53’s with our obsession.

I can get it there but I'm about 99% sure it would be in pieces before 1 hit on the dyno is complete.

There are two other issues other than weight that make the 4.6 not a good candidate for 700HP. It won't result in the 0-60 times of current day 700HP options. The loss of HP from crank to wheels is 20-25%, the transmission is only a 5 speed and the 4 wheel drive ratio front to rear is fixed.

The X5 is not a common hot rod so there aren't heavy duty parts like pistons, rods or crankshaft in the aftermarket. So other than the top end parts that can be modified to facilitate 700HP everything else would be custom made. If the bottom end won't take it there isn't much that can be done about it. Then there is the issue of fuel delivery and tuning it properly. At that level of HP the list will go on and on. I see it as a no value based effort.

It would be wiser to take out weight and stay with semi reasonable boost. As mentioned after this next investment in the 4.6 I will sell it and start with an X5M that is more cubic inches and a platform that is designed to be reliable with a current stock output of 617HP and has up to date features. Then go with what Dinan offers unless BMW starts voiding the warranty for Dinan mods.

I have seen a few X5M’s that are on steroids for sure! I don’t think you can go wrong.

I agree with tapping out after a certain amount of investment. The E53 V12 pretty much gives you and idea of what the end of the road would or could be, and I don’t think too many are going to commit that type of capital.

RMS did however get nearly 900hp out of a S62 though. When I would stop by to check out my E53, the sound those E39 would produce, was insane. Makes you wonder what the M62 is capable of.?

Morgan has new N62 parts and new engines but I don't know if they have any modified performance parts.[emoji848]

They received their last shipment of N62 engines last year.

www.morgan-motor.com

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I should pay better attention. All this time and I just realized you have a 6 cylinder with manual trans. Everything I have posted relates only to a 4.6.

I would not try to get to 700HP using a stock internals M54 platform. The stock HP was around 200HP. Thats way too far away from 700HP.

With 12lbs of boost you have added 100-150HP. Meth increase will range between 10-20% depending on the octane of the fuel you use and the flexibility of the controller. And that assumes you have had it dyno tuned for the boost, have added bigger injectors, a higher output fuel pump and gone to colder plugs. A manual transmission is too easy to over rev the engine if you miss a gear and it is not possible to shift a manual transmission as fast as even a stock automatic.

I would add low restriction exhaust, headers if they are available and cutouts. When you increase the amount of air in always increase the capability of exhaust out. Thats always the first mod I do even if I am not going to mod the engine. Other than that I would enjoy what you have done and not go further. It is unique as is.

No worries.

You are correct 700hp on a stock M54 isn’t even doable. I think I was quoted between $20,000 to $25,000 for a build that can take 20+ lbs of boost. For me though.. Not happening! LoL..

Stock M54 is 230hp.

I am using 93 octane fuel. The controller kicks on the pump at about 2700 rpms and progressively delivers the meth all the way till redline. At redline the pump is at max flow. Like I said, I can blow through 2 gallons of meth quickly, and there is zero quench. Live data shows everything is in spec. The boost and meth was tuned on the track. It has larger injectors, fuel pump, and colder plugs.

I’ve always gone easy on the shifting, just to keep my gearbox and transfer case without abuse. But I bet’cha, I can get the shifts flowing with the 8lb flywheel, Kevlar M5 clutch, DSSR, and short shifter. I think could compete with an auto gearbox.

I has slightly larger than 2 1/2 in. exhaust piping dual, with an x-pipe, and 3” muffler. Headers are available, but the gains are not worth losing my street legal status. I pass inspection with ease. Cutouts would be fun!

I totally agree with your last statement. And it is indeed quite unique. It’s funny to see people whip their heads when I pull into a parking lot, when they hear her coming. What’s even more funny is watching them search all over for a race car that isn’t there. When they realize it’s the E53, their expressions are hilarious. I think what does it is, the 21’s with the 285’s and 325’s. Those big ass wheels are a dead give away, plus she’s dropped 2”.

If I remember correctly, RMS said we were getting about 14hp per lb of boost. 230hp+168hp+40hp=438hp. This math is using a 10% meth gain. If it were 20% gain on the meth, hp would be 478hp. I feel like a 10% gain is more realistic.