navtool/backup camera questions..
 

I'm going through the process of finally installing navtool after procrastinating for a while. I installed the camera through the inlet of the license plate light on the left side and routed the wires through the connector that opens the liftgate. Few questions, i'd like to know if it's safe to power the Navtool through a constant 12v or an accessory 12v, and if so, where would I find a wire that gives ignition/accessory 12v power? and what color is the wire for the reverse brake light? the navtool has a green wire that needs to be connected to it. some pictures would help on the location as I'm not too familiar with the vehicle, only owned it for about 3 months lol. and how are you guys routing your wires from the backup camera?

Subscribed. Also going to do this some day.

also i took out the bulb in the license plate light and soldered the leads for the backup camera light and getting a CHECK LICPLATE LIGHT message on the dash. anyway to bypass this?

anyone?

Add a resistor, apparently the camera is not pulling enough voltage to keep the error message off.

2X LED Load Resistor Kits Turn Signal Light Blink Flash Fix 6 Ohm 50W 7440 7443 | eBay

could I pick up a similar resistor at radio shack? thanks!!

just turn the cold monitoring off for the license plate light. it will stop bogging you...

You could, but to me they don't look as nice as the ones sold on Ebay, they won't have the wire leads soldered on them either.

Do you have a link Romeo? Yes I have that radio shack one, and glad I'm not doing the soldering. Looks small and fragile.

The link is in my post #5.

Oh misread, resistor. I though you were talking about the relay for PDC control. sorry.

I keep slacking on this particular project and finally got back to messing around with it today.. Still can't find a 12v ACC/Ignition wire to tap into for the NAVTOOL... where can i find it in trunk? and the reverse light wire aswell..

where in the trunk is the Navtool located? what other things in the close vicinity of the Navtool? there are plenty of wires that carry juice on ignition.

If we know what else is close to Navtool, we can identify couple other modules with the igntion hot wires...
And i believe it was mentioned in several posts that the ground pulled from the reverse lights results in screen flickering...

well for now it isn't anywhere, but I plan on putting it where the navigation computer/dvd is

also i'd just like to make sure my relay is set up correctly,

30 - Ignition 12v
87 - Navtool Blue Wire ( i think it's for the camera?)
85 - Ground, I connected the GND from the 12v jack of the Navtool, 2 white ground wires of the navtool to this
86 is reverse wire, there is also a green wire in the navtool harness that connects to the brake light I believe. i bought the unit with no instruction manual lol

Euge, i forgot, do you have factory PDC? I am not familiar with this particular setup with Navtool, but I think slick has a Navtool, so he might be able to chime in...

I used OE TV module and a PDC activiation signal from the PDC module with a small, tiny relay... my setup might not work for you... :(

No i don't have PDC :(

the issue of connecting to reverse lights is the flickering... also, sometimes, when you have to maneuvre during parking in a tight space, changing gear from R to D and back to R will mean that camera will be turning on and off with each shift... There must be another solution, maybe with a latching relay that would eliminate the flickering issue (reverse lights are NOT steady 12 V)... I'll have look into the WDS to see if there are any other usable signals that can be picked off for this purpose...

Hi guys.

I have come up with a write-up on the rear camera installation on E53, the file is PDF, about 13Mb... since this is a work in progress, I would like to hear comments about removing some content or adding more content to the file.

If you care for the file, shoot me an email at

terminatorx5 at midnightstar dot com

and i will send you the file. Don't use PM, my box is full. In return, I expect to hear constructive criticism and ideas on improving the document - since I did the work and then wrote it, many things seem obvious to me but might be unknown to you.
I am posting this info on other rearview camera threads that I subscribed to.

EDIT: reduced the size of PDF to 2Mb

anymore takers of the file for review?

Terminator, I emailed you!

did you get the file?

yep, thanks!!

So I got the Navtool working, all my connections are made through a constant 12v for the unit since I coudn't find ignition 12v. just temporarily to see if it'll work, I put the car in reverse and the screen keeps flickering. i attached a video below. I'm using a 40A relay if it matters.

Video - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

where are you picking up your reverse signal for the Navtool from?

i connected the relay to the yellow/white wire from the bottom of the liftgate right next to the plastic cover that goes over the spare tire

yellow/white wire... can you be more specific - what signal is this wire? why did you choose that particular wire?

Its the reverse light wire, no?

the reverse light is a Pulse Modulated Wave signal, __|--|___|--|___|--|___, the signal is going up to full 12V and then drops down to 0V, then goes back up to 12V... This way BMW controls the intensity of the light output. As a result, your relay is flipping back and forth, and in turn, flickers the screen.

I forgot, do you have Park Distance Control?

Nope, I don't have PDC

we need to figure out where you can pick up a reverse signal without going to the reverse lights... let me check into something...

what year is your car? month/year?

you can pick up the reverse signal from the indicator lamp from the gear selector indicator, where it says "P", "R"...

You will have to use a small electronics relay, not the 40A relay - you can pick one from the Radio Shack for a few bucks... The current in the indicator light is very small, it will not be enough to drive a big relay, just enough for a small relay... i have posted the spec sheet for the one I am talking about...

Pin 3 on the connector X1599 has the reverse light signal.

2005, mfd aug 05

here is a possible option for connecting the trigger wire to the reverse lights that are "pulsating" with the PWM:
H3FA-AU-DC12V Omron Electronics Inc-IA Div | Z3012-ND | DigiKey

this is a time-"delay off" latching relay, from Digi-Key. they sell it for about $50 a pop, but it might be the solution that the folks without the PDC might need.

Are there any electrical engineers outhere that can collaborate on this specs with me?

What spec relay should i pick up from radioshack? Also, what would be the easiest way to gain access to the shifter light? Once i am finished with this project i will post a complete guide on the process!

this is a spec sheet for relay - radio shack has only one type of the variations, so you can't go wrong.

the skirt can be lifted - i haven't done it myself but there are other threads that might say how to get to shifter

Picked up the relay from radioshack, considerably smaller than a standard automotive relay lol. there's 5 pins on the relay and looking at the data sheet you posted, which pins would be 30, 85, 86, 87?

on the automotive relay, like any other relay, there are two leads for the coil, and then there are three more control leads - one is common, the other one is NO, normally open, and NC - normally closed.

you would tap the light LED wires to draw power to coil leads, when the reverse LED is energized, the coil is activating, and NO leads are closed, and the NC leads are broken open... you connect desired signal to control leads and feed it to your trigger wire.

I didn't try it, but feeding the pulsating signal of the backup light through a diode to isolate it, then feed a relay coil with a big capacitor in parallel should work.
The value of the capacitor will depend on the duty cycle of the PWM signal and current draw of the relay coil.

BTW, having a PWM signal at the backup lights make them light dimmer than a full 12V, why would BMW do that?

Could you please explain? I also have the idea to hook from the reverse light the positive to the relay, and was also thinking to have a 6800 uF 50V connected to the relay coils. Do i need the diode?

The 6800 uF 50V capacitor i did use on my led tails lights which were flickering due the pwm and it solved the flickering.

Do you have the LED tail lights + capacitor right now?
If yes, hooking up a relay (with high coil resistance) should work since the PWM signal would already be smoothed by the big capacitor.

If you still have the incandescent bulbs, the reason for the diode is to isolate the charged capacitor from the low resistance of the bulb, so that the capacitor remains charged in between the 12V pulses.
The LED bulbs draw a lot less current than the incandescent bulbs, so a diode may not be necessary.
I will experiment with that in the next month(s) because I want to install a camera, Navtool + portable DVD.

LED is a diode - so, you already will have a diode in the circuit... the only way to find the right values for capacitor, is trial and error (or, using an O-scope to find PWM values, and calculate the values)

The led tail light is the one from sonar with leds for marker and brake, where the capacitor solved the flickering. The reverse light is still incandescent bulb, so the question about the capacitor and diode for hooking a steady 12V for a small relay to inject groung to the pin 17 of the blue connector of the vide module (to trigger the reverse camera).
TIA

I e mailed you for it.

do we have any movent on this one? we have pw44 and seeskan in the process of installing the cameras...
ask questions, we will try to help...

Thanks for the PDF file Terminator X5. I have been studying it. after seeing how much work you have done to install the camera in the license plate light, I decided to go the easy way and ordered a $19 external camera from Amazon. It is TAO Tronics E363. I will install it on the black valance under the bumper where PDC sensors are.Going to Plasti Dip it black to blend it in, and also water proof it!
I got to the PDC connector X300 as you had suggested and checked the voltage on pin 7 (brown and Yellow wire) with the car in reverse and I got 12v. I hooked up a regular automotive relay to it. The relay didn't seem to latch and my PDC light started to blink. do I need a relay with less resistance?
I received my camera and the NavTool today. Nav tool is suggesting to use a relay on reverse light for power. I am going to do a temporary wiring see if it works. will report.

check the posts on this same thread from pw44 - he does not have PDC and tried to connect to the reverse lights.. it results in flickering of the monitor. to resolve this, you need to create a circuit that will ignore the Pulse Modulating Wave that is fed into the reversing light.

the relay that i have indicated in the PDF file for the PDC is the one to go - the automotive is requiring more juice and PDC does not have such power to drive the automotive relay. Pin 7 feeds a small green LED in the front of the center console and the voltage and amperage in that circuit is NOT enough to drive a big, 30A relay.

The small relay is spec'd in the PDF file, and you can get it from local Radio Shack about $3-5.

you will need to source the power for the camera, my PDF does not help with power in the bumper valance...

keep us posted

I have got the the source of power for the camera and Nav tool. The car has rear seat monitors and dvd player and a 110V convertor already installed in the back and I found a good source of hot as well as Acc 12v in the back by the nav computer.
I will visit Radio Shack for the relay, and try the PDC route.

Very good... one more thing, before you drill (are you planning on drilling?) the bumper, check to see if the point of view of the camera is satisfactory - it might a bit too low...

PW44 does have PDC, but is trying to avoid it, because when engaged, it remains when the car is shifted to drive, that's why i'm tying to get the signal from the reverse light.

As i did solved the flickering of the rear led marker from sonar (due pmw) with a capacitor, i will try to do it with the reverse light, which is still an incandescent bulb, but and in this thread, i will need a diode for it..

My idea:

reverse light 12V ----------+ ------------ relay coil

|
diode
_
\/
|
| +
capacitor
| _

reverse light ground -----+----------- relay coil

I did not have the time to do it yet due a lot of work and stress.

my bad - naturally, i see that you have the 2006 iS, so a PDC is a standard... the PDC does stay on for a period of time when car is engaged in Drive, until the speed is over x MPH, then it shuts off... With the PDC option, you have a luxury of engaging the reverse camera by pressing the PDC button, even if you are not going in reverse, say, you are in Park... however, this might not be a preference in your situation.

But I really would like to see your solution for the reverse lights, so, keep us posted, when you get a chance to move on with your project.

:thumbup:

This is what I had in mind:
You have to isolate the charge at the relay from the low impedance of the incandescent bulb.




12V to rev light --------------Light Bulb-----------------GND
!
!
!
! + positif (anode)
X Diode
! - negatif (cathode)
!
!
!
!-------pos. capacitor minus-------------------GND
!
!
!
!
!
! +
O relay coil
! -
!
!
GND


Sorry for my lack of talent in ASCII design...

I installed the back up camera via a NavTool. I reluctantly wired a regular automotive relay to reverse light wire, to activate power to back up camera and NavTool's reverse switch, and believe it or not it worked. No capacitor , no diode , no flicker . I spliced into left reverse light wire where it came into trunk from the lower tail gate. it is white in color .
My car already had a DVD player installed in the back, with monitors in the back of the front head rests. I found a video out put from the player for "front monitor" free.
I hooked it up to video 1 input of NavTool. that worked too! (No I won't be watching movies while driving!)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

TerminatorX5; Your PDF file was a great guide, thanks. and as you mentioned, my camera position under the bumper is rather low. Now that everything works, I will invest in a better quality camera and position it by the license plate light.
I forgot to install an inline fuse! have to do that too.

Hi,
got it working and the result is posted at http://www.xoutpost.com/928272-post158.html.
Tomorrow i will post the pictures from the relay and capacitor.
I did not put the diode because i still have the incandescend bulb as rear light. When i change the rear bulb to LED bulb, i will put the diode.
Best regards,
Paulo

Great writeup! unfortunately I don't have the TV Module or PDC so i'd have to wire it directly to the little light that comes on next to "R" on the gear selector. but how to route the wire through everything?!?! lol

your rear seatbacks, are they foldable?

yeah, the rear seats have a reclining button and are foldable

your navtool is in the trunk, right?

so, you trigger wire input is in the trunk too...

your trigger wire - does it need +12V or (-) to operate the reverse camera?

to route the wire to the front, you will need to pull up your rear seat - yank it vertically up by placing your hand in the area where a right rear passenger would have his legs, between the legs area, and the same way from the left passenger area... the rear bottom of the seat is pressure fitted. before pulling the seat up, pull out as far as you can the middle belt and when the seat is up, tilt the seat towards the front of the car and the slack on the middle belt will help tiliting the seat up and away...

depending on which side you want to run the wire (probably left side)feed the wire from the trunk to the rear seat - you will need to either poke through using a coat hanger, or remove the plastic "floor" in the trunk that is closer to the rear seatback...

once the wire in the rear seat area, pull the plastic trim that is between the seat and the door and fish the wire there, then pull the door sill and fish wire there... secure wire to the existing cable by small zipties, so the wire is not floating around...

then fish the wire to the B-pillar, and from there you have three options:

1. run the wire from B-pillar to under the seat into the center console;

2. run the wire from B-pillar in-between the junction of the floor carpeting (this one may require seat removal!!) to center console;

3. run the wire from B-pillar through the front door sill to the front dash, fish the wire within the dash to the center console...

once in the center console, run the wire closer to the gear selector, and then attach the wire to the pin that we were talking about earlier... I would suggest some kind of a quick disconnect connector, that will allow you to disconnect the wire without cutting it in the future, should you wish to disassemble the setup...

let me know if this general directions give you any idea about how to run the wire from the back to the front...

I think it needs +12v, I wired it to the yellow/white wire next on the bottom of the liftgate, right infront of the spare tire. the signal was pulsating, on/off and so forth.

it is called Pulse Modulating Wave.

you can use either latching time delayed relay, a capacitor ( i do not know the value), or run the wire to the front of the car... one of these methods will give you a nice screen...

all thats preventing me from getting it to work is a steady power source... also the navtool itself, i have it wired to a constant 12v. any locations for a switched 12v?

there are many locations in the car for a switched 12V source - where is the navtool located? what is the power draw of the navtool?

I placed the navtool on the bottom of the navigation computer. I got power from a 3 pin connector nearby which looks like the 3 pin aux connector behind the nav screen