4X4 Light On only - HELP!!!!
 

So recently my 4x4 light has come on. Just that light, not the ABS and brake lights. I've been searching the topic religiously the past couple weeks and noone really ever has a resolution. I have read a lot about the SAS but many say its very uncommon for that to be bad and it's usually something else.. I'm big into DIY and would to resolve this on my own without the stealership..

What I've done:
-Turn wheel lock-to-lock (about 50 times)
-Unhooked the battery for extended periods of time
-Went to Autozone, their reader says no codes.
-Used the OBC to check the voltage, it's 11.2V with engine off, and 12.8 when running. I've read it should be 12.25 minimum when not running.

I'm thinking it could be a bad battery..

My car is a 2004 X5 3.0i with 78k miles.

I've been in the E46 world for a long time and am new to the 5 series.

Any help or tips would be appreciated!!!

No codes at all? Do the cluster hack and see the voltage through it while driving:
BMW E38 Hidden OBC Functions

its not Alternator?....just turn off your car let it sit for like 3 mins...turn it on...and should go away....idk..mine does...but mine the voltage spikes....so my case was alternator.

FYI.. The Autozone reader can only check for "check engine" related codes.. Those codes are emissions control generic related codes... For anything else or BMW specific codes you need a different scanner than the $89 autozone scanner...

Yes I know this, I went there with high hopes. I'm certain it's sending a SAS fault code like everyone else with this problem. I don't have DIS so I can't see the codes..

What kind of spikes were you seeing? All through the cluster hack?

Do you think the voltage while driving will be much different them when just sitting at idle? What would I be looking for here?

With the info you posted about your battery's voltage...I'd focus right now on getting multiple readings from your battery at rest & engine not running (with no surface charge) and then while the engine is running and you're driving around.

Do you know if you are still using the original battery that came with the vehicle? If so, that may really point the finger at the battery being the culprit and it being on it's last dying legs. Even if the battery has been replaced...on average, it could be on it's 2nd battery...and at 9 years old...this wouldn't be out of line either since an automotive battery on general last from anywhere around 4 years to possibly 10 years depending on use & environment.

When you unlock your OBC...you should run TEST 9 before you start the engine or approx 2 hours after shutting down (this dissipates any surface charge)...then run TEST 9 while starting the engine and driving around. OBC TEST 9 shows you the battery's voltage (when engine is not running) and the alternator/charging system (when engine is running). This can give you an idea of where an electrical problem culprit may be.

The numbers you listed for engine not running & engine running are low. If the battery warning light hasn't illuminated (indicating an alternator/charging sytem problem)...then it could be a simple issue of your vehicle's battery giving you signs that it's about to fail.

A battery at 11.89 volts is at 0% state of charge and if still capable of starting the car...it's running on reserve capacity. You say that your battery was at 11.2 volts...and when voltage drops that low, odd electrical gremlins like warning lights illuminating but no symptoms can be found...are a common issue with many BMW models.

Again, unlock you OBC and do multiple TEST 9 samplings of the battery & alternator's voltage output (at rest & driving) and post back your findings. You should see some fluctuations at both rest & running...but for the most part, the battery should read above 12 volts...and the alternator should fluctuate between 12.5-13.8 volts consistently...depending on idle/load conditions.


Below is the procedure for unlocking the OBC (just like the link above) and there's also a brief description of the OBC TESTs. Disregard that it mentions "e38" in the heading...the "unlock" info applies to the e38/e39/e53 with the high instrument cluster...the low instrument cluster used in the e46 & e53 is similar except there's only 1 button on the cluster, so initiating the TESTs is slightly different as well as how they appear in the display since the low cluster doesn't have the larger 20-digit alpha/numeric display:

Qsilver7, thank you for the thorough follow-up! Appreciated
Last night after the car sat for about 4 hours is when I did the unlocked OBC Test 9 test, it was consistently 11.2 with engine not running and 12.8 max running. My E46 hovers between 13.8 and 14.2 all the time (Running or not).

I'm also fairly certain this is the original battery (Don't know for sure, but it really seems like it. I haven't looked for a date on it yet). I bought the car at 75k from someone that had it maintained it regularly at BMW. I can't find anywhere on the records of a new battery ever being installed.
Would it be worth hooking some jumper cables up for a little while to see if that alleviates my issues? Or should I just replace the battery straight away?

You can try charging the battery for a while to see if that changes anything (and get the 4x4 light to go off). But if it consistently reads around 11.2 volts and if it is the original battery...then you may find yourself stranded sometime in the near future if the battery dips so low that it can't start the vehicle (but may have enough juice to light the interior etc.)...or you may begin to see a few more odd electrical gremlins.

See if you can find a vendor that can load test the battery...which would give you another indication if its time to replace. If it needs to be replaced...you have the option of looking for 49/H8 or 95/H9 class size batteries. The prices can range from just around $100 to well up to $300. But again, the battery class size you're looking for is the 49/H8 and/or 95/H9...with the latter usually costing the most $$$. And don't forget to hook up any replacement battery to the VENT tube in the battery compartment since it's enclosed. ;)

I'll try the charge tonight and possible load test. I'm sure my wife is going to be very comforted knowing she might get stranded somewhere... :flame:

Where's a decent place to buy a battery? I'd assume Wal-Mart or something?

One thing I have learned in the past is don't trade the battery in for the $10 core charge. Recycle places will give you $15-20 for car batteries :thumbup:

On mine it was, i sometimes got spikes of 17 volts that put me in trans fail safe mode and other random electrical problems. Replaced the alternator and problems solved.

Ok, i'll check that tonight as well. I haven't seen the trans fail safe mode yet.

The only other mystery problem happened yesterday.
We were leaving breakfast for mothers day. I walked to the car and hit unlock. The alarm started going off. I couldn't get it to stop, hitting all the buttons on the remote.
Finally, I got in the car and started it. Alarm still going off. Turned it off and got out, hit unlock again and it shut off. Embarrassing

Anyone think this could be related?

This still sounds like a dying battery issue. When the voltage drops, again real weird electrical gremlins occur. Its like when a boxer gets hit with an uppercut and the electrical synapses in the brain don't connect...TKO...lights out...boxer sees stars, then head-dives into the canvas. :D When you're battery's voltage drops...similar things occur and it can't keep up with everything it's supposed to do....thus it starts and stops or basically goes into a type of rolling brown-out.

BTW, the alarm siren has it's own internal battery that is kept charge by the car's battery. If the vehicle's battery is low, then it can't keep the alarm siren's battery charged. The drop in current when the remote buttons are pressed in this condition...can be seen by the alarm siren as someone disconnecting power to the car and trying to steal it...so it sounds off.

Ok, just went for a drive with the OBC voltage meter running. Before start-up, I was at 11.2-11.4. Then, after it started and drove off it sat between 13.2-13.6 consistently.

Going to get a new battery this weekend... Updates to follow!

Isn't that light caused by a bad STEERING ANGLE SENSOR?

UPDATE:

Installed brand new battery today.. Light is still on!

OBC Volt meter reads 11.7 with engine off and steady 13.4 at an idle with new battery in.

Your NEW battery is only at 11.7 volts? What's it's mfg date? Is it fresh or was it sitting on the shelf for a long time? Did the vendor charge the battery before installing it (especially if it has been sitting on the shelf for a while)?

What battery class size did you get? Is it a 49, H8, 95, or H9 class size (and hopefully it's vented)?

Your NEW battery is only at 11.7 volts? Yes
What's it's mfg date? Not sure i cant find that
Is it fresh or was it sitting on the shelf for a long time? It was on a shelf when I got it. Can't say for how long.
Did the vendor charge the battery before installing it (especially if it has been sitting on the shelf for a while)? No, I grabbed it and left.

What battery class size did you get? Is it a 49, H8, 95, or H9 class size (and hopefully it's vented)? H8 and yes it's vented.

Before ruling out low battery voltage (since your new battery is also below 0% state of charge)...if you have a battery charger...hook it up to the jump start terminals in the engine bay. Give your new battery a good long recharge like 2 amps for approx 20 hours, or 10 amps at approx 8 hours.

Also make sure that all the battery cells are sufficiently filled with electrolyte (distiller water).

Once more, I think you may be mistaken about battery....I have the same light on, battery is fine, my indie shop shut it off with the computer, but it came back...and he tells me it is THE STEERING ANGLE SENSOR, ABOUT $450 TO CHANGE IT, LOCATED AT THE BOTTOM OF THE STEERING SHAFT UNDER THE DASH.
Also, when it is on you have NO ABS ??

Can you "qualify" as to what "fine" is? Is your battery voltage below 11.89 volts, too or does it remain above 12 volts? Knowing better what you mean by "fine" would be helpful in disqualifying low battery voltage as the culprit.

I believe I've read that some who have had this light illuminated and the steering angle sensor was causing the fault...some have turned the steering wheel from lock to lock (turn all the way counter clockwise, then all the way clockwise) and have gotten the light to go off.

But this is only if there's nothing critically wrong with the system other than a small electrical gremlin.

In my case i mean above 12 which means the battery is fine everything is functioning i have had this problem for a while just 4x4 on, i can turn it off but it comes back, and i know that i have to change the steering angle sensor which is $450. Hope that clarifies, this is in my case not his

I guess you might encounter alternator problem. You should have got over 14v when the engine is running if your alternator is working fine, however, you said it was only 13.x. I don't think it is the angle sensor, because you would have had all lights up including ABS, brake light and 4x4 light if your angle sensor goes wrong. Run a test on the alternator.

I have 12 volts engine off and 13.75 running.

My light went off the first time when I did the wheel lock to wheel lock, but came back on, the my indie cleared it and it came back on again....

So what else can cause the indicator, and hopefully the steering angle sensor change will fix it....I'm a bit PISSSED at BMW with the $4-500 repairs now and then on a car with 58,000 miles

And since the STEALERS are such F*****S with their selling tactics, I'll bite the bullet and jusk keep this car.
I think I get irrational about trading up and getting a newer one, our 06 is GREAT, even though it needs "massaging" now and then
We put about 8K miles a year on it, so when it is 10 years old annd the depreciation has leveled off, MAYBE I'll look at upgrading
For now the local BMW dealers can kiss my ass.......
VISTA AND FT LAUDERDALE BMW

I took the X5 out to a dirt road this weekend to test this. ABS works as good as ever :thumbup: Does that change anything?

Sunday I checked fluids on new battery, all is good. Then Unplugged the battery for 1.5 hours to hopefully reset anything. Then hooked all back up.
I don't have a battery charger so got some jumper cables and ran from my E46 (Has 13.6 volts off and 14.2 running) to the E53. With cables in place and the X off, it was getting 13.4 volts at the OBC. Running it was at 13.8. Did this for about 30 ish minutes. (I ran cables to connector under the hood and not battery direct).
Afterwards I tried the steering wheel turn lock to lock a couple times and went for a drive. Seeing 13.8 on the OBC the entire drive. Light still present as ever... :(

Is there a non-invasive way to test the alternator? I'd like to rule that out without pulling it off the car...

Check out the other thread on the DSC, ABS and 4x4 with posts from this morning. QSilver put instructions on how to check your alternator volatge from your cluster.

I've been testing via the OBC already.

Try going to Motronix in Dania. A bunch of coworkers I know have used them with great satisfaction. www.motronix.net They know german cars and are very reasonable for a high end Indy who won't mislead you from wha I've been told.

Since your battery voltage isn't low after replacing and charging up your new battery...plus driving around seeing that the alternator/charging system is working...and your 4x4 warning light is still illuminated...the next step is to communicate with the vehicle (BMW DIS/GT-1) to see which sensor is setting a fault for the 4x4 warning.

The 4x4 warning light does have a purpose...it lets' us know when something is wrong with xDrive...as well as illuminating when we manually turn DSC off. :p: Just to check, the DSC button wouldn't happen to be pressed in or stuck from a spilt sugary drink etc?


BTW...just to be sure, your battery warning light is NOT illuminating while driving or staying illuminated, right? I ask because the battery warning light comes on to let you know when the alternator/charging sytem is NOT keeping your battery charged...and thus is the culprit for electronic problems (the battery is the VICTIM in this case, not the culprit).

The battery light never has never been illuminated. Here is my dash currently:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKuOOSuCcAEeEhD.jpg:large

Also, I recently noticed there is a small scuff on the physical DSC button. Like someone hit it with a ring or knife maybe? The DSC worked fine for the first couple months of owning the car.

I'll see if my wife can send a pic of the scuff on the button and i'll post it.

Here is a pic of the scuffed button... Thoughts?


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKuZrrOCIAAZNYn.jpg:large

I have a little voltage/battery tester that I bought on AMAZON some time ago, it plugs into the cig lighter and gives digital readings....high when driving was 13.85 low after overnight was 11.74. Battery is about 2 years old provided by CPO warranty.

This is pretty similar to where i'm at monitoring via the OBC.

I don't know about others...but your images aren't visible on my work CPU. Are you uploading them as attachments in your posts...or do you have them uploaded to an image hosting website that has assigned them a URL?

It could also be my employer's server doing net nanny on me if the hosting website is not approved. :(

Hmmm, at this point, there is entirely too much guessing. Qsilver hit the nail on the head with the battery, but at this point voltage doesn't seem to be your problem. This may suck, but you are going to either have to take it to the stealer to have the code read or a indy shop who has GT-1 to get the code. No time for guessing anymore. Mine came on this morning but also read "4x4 Inactive" on the cluster. After a restart, the light went away. Things like this occur because of voltage. As of now, my voltage regulator is on its way out. But for you, the story is different.

TwinsPoppa had the same problem a few months ago, luckily he has a GT-1 and it spelled out SAS. So he DIY'd it himself. You got to spend a few bucks to get the fault back, but atleast you can stop guessing.

I'm using the image URL after I post them on twitter. I had a buddy check the URL to this thread and he could see them. They are also showing up on my iPhone. Might just be your employers firewall.

I think you're right on this one TwinTurboGTR :cussing:
Good luck with your light. Mine started like that as well. Would come on then go off after driving. Or just be off the next time we drove it. Happened for about a week or 2 of intense snow driving, then decided it wanted to stay on forever.

I'm going to see what my BMW indi says. Heading out of town so it might not happen for a week or 2..

OK, SO probably not voltage related, what is really happening when that 4x4 light is on, what does this all mean....
Has anyone had this repaired, what is the cost....

Ahhh! There's my problem...twitter is not an approved site for some businesses due to the personal nature that site can take (consider the once esteemed Congressman Anthony Weiner). :cool:

The light is on, no warning sounds, and what does that have to do with the STEERING ANGLE SENSOR?
In south Florida we NEVER need 4 wheel drive..so what happens, and still what does it cost to fix...I'm being quoted $500....??
What are the parts needed to repair this....I've looked at REALOEM trying to see what parts are needed...??

Sounds like you're in my same boat!

If you get your car to an indi or the stealer before I do, let me know what codes you get.
I've also read things about a DSC Pressure Sensor on the DSC Module that can go bad?


I'm going to the stealer today for a trailer hitch (heading out of town with camper). I'm going to just ask them what they think since i'm there.. I'm in the E46 today so I can't have them run codes :(

my indie says it is definitely the STEERING ANGEL SENSOR a while back he hooked it up to the computer and shut off the light, (it stayed off for a few days) but I don't remember what the code was....
I am not going to have it fixed till I have a bunch more info....

The steering angle sensor is part of the DSC system...that's how the steering angle sensor can be related to the 4x4 warning.

But just because the light is on...doesn't mean that the problem is the steering angle sensor needs to be replaced...It may just need to be recalibrated (depending on other things that have been going on with the vehicle). Proper diagnostics and good deductive reasoning must be considered. Just because a sensor or component registers a fault...it doesn't mean that the component or sensor is the culprit...there could be another related component "upstream" or "downstream" from the component that is causing the issue.

This is where "deductive" problem solving comes into play...you can either throw money at the problem hoping that it will fix it...or you can take the time to consider how, what, why the component may be failing.

How much do you understand about the systems mentioned in the owners manual that illuminate when the 4x4 warning comes on (DSC/HDC/xDrive)? Knowing how these systems work and how they interconnect with other systems on your vehicle can go a long way in narrowing down what may be causing the issue.

For example...the description below about the steering angle sensor explains the connection it has to DSC:


In the DSC information below...there are things in the system (like wheel speed sensors) that may be bad or corroded and could be causing the issue...thus things like this should be looked at as well as potential culprits...again, a good mechanic or indy...or even DIY'er needs to consider the sum of more than just one part to see how the whole system works and where the weakness or fault may be:

I encountered the problem before when I still had an pre-facelifted e53 x5 4.4i. The sympton was only the Slip light on (been replaced by the 4x4 light after facelifted). Finally it was the ABS module error, I had to replace the ABS module t fix the problem. You may also encounter this problem. The only way you can assure if it is the problem is to use DIS to check the error code.

Not sure if this is at all related..

But, both of my right side angel eyes stopped working on Sunday!

:dunno:

Errrr, then that sounds like SAS... SAS is part of the module that controls Adaptive Headlight. You need to bring it in to get it scanned first to get a def answer on it. If it comes back as a dead SAS then you know what to do.

I have halogens on my X. Pretty sure they aren't adaptive....

Wait... misread that. I thought it said Adaptive Headlight weren't working. You probably read my answer and was like, is he on crack?

Ok so the AE on the right side of each headlamp arent working? Those rings are controlled by one bulb. So having one ring out on each headlight is odd.

Wait... Unless I am misreading that again. You mean to say, both rings on the Passenger side headlight are out? Or each ring on the right side of both head lights is out? Im gonna go with the earlier. If that is the case, the bulb burned out.

Hahahaha I'm sure you're not smoking crack! Yes, both of Angel Eyes on the passenger side aren't working. If they are controlled by one bulb, then this is no anomaly.

Do you know the bulb number so I can grab one on the way home?

Those bulbs arent readily available at the auto part store. They are a dealer specific item. But before you do that, try switching it with the left side. If it works, then its a bad bulb, if not then it is something that needs more digging.

and this is an opportunity to consider LED, like many of us have had... if you are going for the stock look, then the part is about $20 from a delaer but the bulb is available separately too, you just need to search for it high and low... and separating the bulb and the holder is a delicate task, as the two parts of the housing are fused together via "melted" plastic tabs... once you have the holder out, you will see what i am talking about...

After installing my new trailer hitch and BMW wiring, I walked to the front of the X5 to find that ALL the Angel Eyes are working perfectly. No clue if they are related or if the gremlins are busy at work.

I don't know what to believe anymore..

UPDATE:

Hey everyone, I FINALLY got around to getting to a shop to check codes. Since my last post, the voltage hovers around 13.2-13.4 all the time while driving.

Here are the pics of the codes I got today at the shop. Keep in mind, all my light issues have been fixed. I changed the thermostat last weekend and am due for a transmission fluid change, as you might see in the codes.

Please review the list of codes to see if there is anything that can be extrapolated. My mission by bringing it to the shop was to have them simply "re-calibrate the SAS" and everyone be happy.. The tech said it wouldn't "initialize", whatever that means. Part of me thinks it could be alternator.. Part of me thinks SAS is ACTUALLY bad, which is odd. I paid the $65 today for this list of codes, Please fellas, make the best :thumbup:http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/20/mega4a8u.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/20/y3amyhyh.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/20/yja3ata8.jpg


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Undervoltage code at the top, alternator?

You think I should try throwing a new alternator at it? The car is at about 88k miles right now. That's when my 330i desired a new one... Both M54 engines.

I am just hesitant since they OBC reads in an "okay" range, volt wise. My E46 hovers between 13.8-14.2volts.. Maybe it is the alternator.

Its tough to say, but it is a random undervoltage code.

i'm going to check fuse #15 tonight with a voltmeter if I get a chance. It might be wise to just put a new Alternator in. The Alternator/Battery on BMWs generate so flippin many gremlins.

Dealing with the exact same issue. Buguyed, did you ever get this resolved? Alternator or faulty SAS?

I do not have a resolution as of yet but have checked/done these things since the last update:

-Checked voltage at the alternator, battery, and all applicable fuses (AT the fuse). Everything is normal. Therefore, I am ruling out the alternator for now.

-Had an indy try clearing the codes a couple times but didn't help.

-Just put on new tires and am going to get a front end alignment. It needs it (based on tire wear/cupping) and it might help the issue (ya right, but i can dream). I'd like to do this before I replace the SAS anyway, as a precaution.

-I've also read a little bit on the possibility of it being the Yaw sensor (located under the center console). These are $$ so i'm going the alignment and replace SAS first. IF this doesn't fix it, I'm just going to live with the stupid light being on. It's been on now nearly two years and I don't much care about it. The car is heavy with good tires, it does fine in the snow. :D

If you are experiencing the same issues and reach a conclusion before me, PLEASE POST!

My 4x4 light is on my 06 4.8. I did find my battery low staying at ~ 11 v. And I know the battery is weak, so I will be changing my battery next week. In addition I believe my steering wheel angle sensor either needs recalibration or replacement as my adaptive headlights does not move with steering.

Hey all.

Here are my notes of something similar.
http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...al-solved.html

What I gather is that the DSC system uses inputs from a ton of sources however if you only have a 4x4 light and not all of the others then I would suggest you focus on yaw sensor, steering angle sensor, DSC model (on the valve block). The codes to BMW DSC are unique, meaning the generic code readers may not be a lot of help.

Gluck

Hi all, just reading this past post and I may have a problem. I turn on the 09 test and with the key on but not the engine running I get 11.6V. Start the engine and I get 13.3/13.4V. Shouldn’t I be getting 13.8V? Any comments appreciated. Maybe replace the battery first? I have been getting the dreaded 4x4 warning light come up every now and then. Seems moreso now. Checked for noise after switch off from under car to see if it was the transmission transfer gear but could not hear anything. Besides, I dont remeber getting the extra two warning lights of brake and abs (the 3 indicators).

regards
James

Oh, by the way it is a x5 e53 2005 4.4i v8. I am not sure if I have a water cooled or air cooled alternator.

Wow. You dug up an old one. Been awhile since I've dealt with this problem. Can't believe I'm still subscribed and got an email. I will say this. Your battery voltage is weak. But more so your alternator should be putting out closer to 14v running. Low voltage will make these vehicles do crazy things. Just first thought though I would lean towards alternator although I've had two E53's and never had an alternator go out. And I very well could be wrong but I think those were somehow cooled by your coolant system, atleast the v8's. And back in the day they weren't cheap. And if I recall those things are buried down towards the bottom of motor and not easy to get to. Wish you luck. But I would try to get a meter on your alternator and get a good voltage output reading and go from there. Also make sure your belts are good as worn belts can slip and not turn accessories fast enough to work properly. Tensioner pullies can get weak and cause belt slippage too. But again, the alternator should be putting out more voltage.

Yes, it is quiteold. Did a bit of a run today and the test 09 varies between 13.4 - 13.6. I think i am ok with that. Checked the battery after turn off and up to 12.4. So, I think I will try a battery first. I remember now, going away for 5 days a couple of times in previous years and would come back to find the battery dead. Also, I think the 4x4 warning light might be associated or its the steering wheel sensor. Will need tocheck that too. But, I would say the battery is on its last legs and not holding charge. $500AUD installed for a new one.

A strange thing happened this morning for a first. Was waiting at the lights and the car died. Turned the key, instrument lights, air con but nothing in turning over the engine. Waited a bit and tried again, nothing. Tried a third time and it started. Phew!! Has been running allday now.

Just wanted to add that my engine stopping at the lights was the MAF sensor (separate thread). My 4x4 warning light issue is still there. Would a faulty steering angle sensor show up on a scan?

Yes it would show up, but I only have a Foxwell NT-510 and Torque Pro so I don't know what code numbers would show up on other devices.

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It was in my case. The other things that I'm aware of that can cause that are a faulty yaw sensor and faulty wheel speed sensor. The Foxwell scanner will pick up both of those as well as the SAS. Have you scanned it yet?

+1 On having it checked with a proper scanner, otherwise, you will be guessing. Mine turned out to be the yaw sensor.