Projector fog lights on facelift X5
 

I have successfully put them on my iS. Actually I swap them from my 3.0i.
Thanks to the post from TerminatorX5, I know they have the same mounting point as the newer reflective style. The problem is the air intake tube in the way on the right side. Here is how I did it, and it work :D
Remove this pin here
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps39adb95b.jpg
It's the hanger for the intake tube. I shake the tube after removing the pin and it's fine with the connections at both ends.
After that, you want to move the mounting tab behind the mounting point like so
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps615c9265.jpg
Now the projector fog-light housing can puch the intake tube in a little bit to fit.
Cut out the connector and solder the correct one on, and shrink wrap it to prevent moisture/water from entering. I used the marine shrink tube which has glue inside to seal it when you heat it up.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...psf0f5bb22.jpg
The projector fog light fit perfectly.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...pse58e370b.jpg
Test and make sure it works before putting the cover back on
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...psffe0a291.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps9dd5965a.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps941c98fc.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...psa1845609.jpg

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Night time output shots please! :)

^will do tonight, X5SND

a little bit of a difference, but much bigger when retrofitted..

Hi, I've a question for anyone who has put in aftermarket (DEPO brand) projector fogs.
I've bought 2 sets now (had to return first as quality was garbage) and this time around it seems its no different. Either set will not project light (HID bulbs, OR just an H3 bulb) properly. I've tried to adjust housing, screw, and even adjust the cut off beam plate but t no avail.
Anyone else experience the same?

how much are those DEPO lights?

OE lights from a dealer are about $100 for left and $100 for right... maybe it is worth getting the OE?

Term X, its about $80 for the pair for new... guess I get what I paid for tho

Need to add this to the todo list after exhaust and spacers, 200$ oe for projectors aint bad.

Looks good! Was interested on putting them on mine just didnt know if there was more work involved, looks like a simple swap from old to new though.

you have to change the connectors, or make a changeover harness from OE parts - neither is hard but you need to be at least 2 on the 1-10 scale of technical ability... you get the parts for the recepticle plug that will plug into the car's harness, and then you will get the plug housing that will plug into the projector lights.. I think RickyBobby came up with the harness - i just snipped off the original plugs and fitted the projector plugs i got from the dealer... all the part numbers are in their respective threads...

you have to be mindful of the airduct on the passenger side - do as TMV did, just wiggle it out of way...

:)

Yes I came up with a pigtail so I didn't snip my factory wiring, you will need this, to make an H11 male to BMW female 2 pin connection:

2X H8 H9 H10 H11 880 Male Connectors Connector HID Plug Free Shipping from USA | eBay

2 of these from the dealer (connection)

Home Page > Search > 61 13 8 373 332 > ES#165762 Socket Housing - Priced Each - 61138373332

4 of these from the dealer (wire lead with pre-crimped pin, 2 go in each connector and you put the male H11 on the other end):

Home Page > Search > 61 13 0 007 256 > ES#2550154 Bushing Contact With Wire Lead - Pack Of 10 - 61130007256

I have a set of the Depo projector fog lights (ebay for $110) and I'm almost positive it is not a quality issue, members have been retrofitting the Depo projector fogs for years now and not many complain about the quality. I was actually very impressed with the quality and was hard pressed to tell the difference from the OE BMW reflector fog light I took out.

The issue is the bulb type here, an H3 is an extremely small bulb with not the greatest focal length and intensity, I suspect the reason why BMW switched to a reflector fog light housing (besides the air duct on the 4.8is) with an H11 bulb is because the H11 bulb simply is a more intense bulb which will throw more light out.

I had the H11 reflector fog light with Hoen yellow endurance bulbs, with great light output. I recently put in the projector fog lights with a Hoen Xenonmatch bulb, and noticed definite dimmer output compared to the reflector/H11. Granted, they were both coated bulbs but arguably the yellow coated bulb is a lighter coating which will still allow more light out, whereas the H3 bulb I recently installed was blue coated to mimic xenons.


I'm happy thus far as I wanted the xenon look and the sharper look of the fog lights when they were off, it was a feature that was worth sacrificing some light output on the road for (my reflector fogs were pitted to hell, and don't we have xenons for a reason?)

However, I disagree in the fact that an OE housing vs. the Depo housing is vastly different, its simply the difference in the bulb used. When I owned my 2008 GLI, I went from 9006 bulb in a REFLECTOR fog light housing to an H11 bulb in a PROJECTOR housing, and I'll be honest the light output was the same, just sharper cutoff on the projector. Look at an H3 bulb, its tiny! No way the output is the same as an H11, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I've read you could bend the cutoff shield to sharpen the output more if you have the know how, its not something I am going to mess with though.

To get the most output of the H3 bulb, you either need a high performance halogen bulb (something like an Osram Nightbreaker), or you need to retrofit HID.

For 38 bucks shipped, I'd try out the best halogen bulbs in the housing that I could find. OSRAM Night Breaker Plus H3 (Twin Pack) | PowerBulbs

If I end up retrofitting bi-xenon projectors into my headlights, I will leave the halogen bulb, but if I just do clear lenses on my stock projectors, I will retrofit H3 HID's into the housing down the line.

And if there is an HID/xenon fitted into the foglights, a programming change must be done to allow the foglights to remain on when the highbeams are engaged on US spec'd cars (probably North America specs) to avoid flashing/flickering of the xenon ballasts, which considerably shortens the life of the HIDs - On the US cars the foglights must turn off when a highbeam is engaged, so if you were to flash highbeams to somebody to pass, the foglights will counterflash...

Absolutely correct Terminator, I think the line is something about NSW_NICHT_GLEINZ or something to that effect, if you have HID fog lights you must tell them to remain on when high beams are engaged, and you also need to turn off the cold and warm monitoring for the fog lights or wire in a CAN BUS resistor module so that you won't get the bulb out warning in the dash.

FL_UND_NSW_NICHT_GLEICHZ - nicht_activ - for the foglights to stay on with highbeams



I'd have to look up the cold/hot monitoring and the reporting lines for the front fog lights that will need to be modified to accomodate the HID/xenon setup...

Its tough for you to notice T since you went from OE halogen bulb to OE halogen bulb, whereas I went from H11 yellow bulb to H11 "xenon look" bulb, but did you notice the projector housing although a sharper output doesn't seem as "intense" as the reflector housing (which is the point of the projector I guess, a more even spread of light)

See this thread, Lightwerkz has initial post on page 1 with 6000k to 8000k bulb output with 55w ballasts! And the output is good with that but not phenomenal. 2nd page he puts 4300k bulbs in with 55w ballasts and the output looks amazing, but again, that is not just HID, but 55w ballast HID which is brighter than normal 35w.


I still say it is not the Depo housing (Cesar even commented on the great build quality), Clockwork, are you using 35w or 55w HID? What color temp are your bulbs and are you using an H3 kit or H3C kit? Care to share some output pics?

You need to remember these fog light housings are intended to throw the light on the ground in front of you, they are not supposed to be a long throw type beam, however you should get some width and intensity on the foreground as that is what they are designed for.

When I had the 35w, 4300K HID kid in the projectors, the beam cut off was dirty and I assumed it was the distance of the light source to the beam cut off shield (hence why I opted to try the H3 bulbs and made the wire harness conversion, for shits and giggles).
RB, I bought all the parts to make a proper crossover from factory H11 connector to the connector needed for the Projector housings, (love the look of a factory wire harness and not just a cut and solder job) and then put NARVA H3 Range Power 50+ (55w, supposed to be some of brightest H3 bulbs in world) in the new projectors and the light output on one housing is weaker than the other side (had same problem with HID's in there). the beam cut off is again not that pretty, so I again assumed it had to do with the distance of the filament of the bulb to the beam cut off pattern shield. I'm not sure why others are having such success in the HID/projector department and I'm not, and even when I go to an old school bulb and still get a crappy cut off pattern, I assmed its the build quality of BOTH sets I've received. I've seem pics of others and their beam cut off (with both halogen and HID sources) are great and clean :( I just want that.
I wish I took pics of the beam cut off. AND in all honesty I'd use the Projectors with either bulb (HID or Halogen) but at the moment, the reflectors I have with H11 HID's seem to be a MUCH brighter output than the Projectors ever could be (unless I had a 55w HID kit maybe).
I did NOT know the light from the Projectors would be different from the low beam's in regards to where he light was thrown... I figured they should project as far as the low beams (but I still aim them to the ground), but if they are only meant to be shedding light on the ground directly in front, then maybe I'll have to let up on them a little and understand how they work a bit different from low beam projector throwing. Maybe I'll be sticking with the reflectors and HID kit till hey crap out...

PS: I know RB posted about what parts to buy for the conversion wire harness, but I took pics (part with part number) of all things needed. I can't figure out how to requce the quality or size so I can't post them in a thread, but if you want them, I'll e-mail them to anyone so they know what to get. just PM me anytime.

To summarize:

1) The fog light throw should not be the same distance as low beam throw, not even close. It is a foreground and width type throw, not long.

2) It's also well known that some H3 kits will be better than others, the H3 is an extremely short bulb, TRS sells an H3C which is actually slightly shorter than a standard H3, supposed to be better fitment, but members have been using standard H3's for years without issues.

3) As far as adjusting the cutoff, Cesar from Lightwerkz used a pick to either gently bend it ever so slightly away or towards the stock position to achieve a sharper cutoff, you have to remember that we are talking probably a couple millimeters at most! Extremely little bit of adjustment most likely.

4) At the end of the day the fog lights are accent lights and not standalone additional low beams, if you are happy with the realization of that and just want an increased light output as compared to a halogen H3 bulb, then put in an HID kit and enjoy the increased output. Don't expect an additional low beam by just outfitting your fog lights with HID however.

5) I never heard of Narva Range Power but I'd be sure I was using a quality set of rebased bulbs for this application.

RB, another thing that drives me crazy with both sets of projectors I have/had was the cut off was angled so instead of being flat, _/- it was much more slanted on the bottom, so it actually slanted up into the oncoming drivers eyes. Dang.
But I appreciate the heads up on the differences and may try to change the angle of the cut offs again to straighten them out.

I'll have to get better pics of my projector cutoff, but basically your beam spread should look like the below picture, although this is Lightwerkz picture after he adjusted the shield for sharper cutoff, yours should be similar but instead of sharper at the cutoff it will be "fuzzier", on this pic he is using 8000k bulbs with 55w ballasts as well.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y15...5/DSC_0153.jpg

RB, yeah I've seen those pics before and the HID's look insanely nice with those Projectors. my set looks different in that the horizontal line is NOT that horizontal on the drivers side and instead the left most side actually angels up into oncoming traffic. I've tried to shift the proj housing in the x5 as much as possible to counter act that, but still not that good and the bulbs I put in (either HID or Halogen) seem to have a bright spot RIGHT in the middle of the Horizontal line and light is not scattered properly, hence making me believe its a quality isue (which I hate to say cause so many have had good results).
I will have to just play with the cut off plate. Man I wish mine looked like that!!!

this is a link to the old post that we were talking about a little while ago - it has a picture of the projector cut off on the left and free form cut of on the right of the picture... http://www.xoutpost.com/891001-post23.html

Clock, if your pattern flares off to the left - could it be British version? if they have a specific version...

Term X, probably not a british version.
I just ordered what everyone else ordered from the same supplier on e-bay it seems. I'm just not having luck with them. my left projector light kinda look like yours, but not a straight cut off and more angled up on the left side. almost like the light inside the housing is rotated clockwise a bit, so instead of a cut off being from 9-3 (as on a clock face) it looks more like 10-4 ;( the other side projector is pretty much flat/horizontal (like 9-3)

I pm'ed Lightwerkz to get his thoughts on the cutoff, will see what he says. I think you might have to manipulate the shield some more, I will pull my car out of the garage later and see what my cutoff looks like as I am gearing up to get some HID in the fogs lights as well.

When it comes to manipulating shields, you have to be careful. It's generally super small increments as your adjustments are magnified to the nth degree on the road. Once start going overboard, you may as well throw the projector out unless you an get/fan a new shield as you will not get it back into shape.

HID projector figs eh? Seems to be a lot of that goin round ;) ;)! Lol

You're not kidding S! Once that bug hits (and the group buys start) its hard to contain! Since we are on the topic of super small increments of adjustment, to sharpen our cutoff should we be pushing the shield towards the lens or pulling it back towards the bowl? I'm talking like a half millimeter or so, it can't be much to sharpen it up.

Tilting the top of of the shield back (closer towards the bulb) results in more color and consequently a less focused cutoff. Forward reduces color and sharpens the cutoff....until you go past the focal point where it will become out of focus again.

I'm stoked to get this things now....I never even use my fogs though!! Lol.

Awesome. So i will push forward a weeeee bit. Thanks all.

Well, X5SND and I have bitten the bullet and both bought Morimoto Elite H3C kits in 4300k (stock) color temp for the projector fog housings on the most recent HIDPlanet group buy. I also bought a new set of XB35 D2S bulbs in 4300k as my 9 year old stock bulbs are color shifted to about 6000k, very dim.


We will be sharpening the cutoff and I will be re-aiming my fogs as the right side sits higher, I want a nice flat cutoff and razor sharp. stay tuned.


Shameless plug and I hope I'm not breaking rules, but when the HID's go in I will have a set of H3 Hoen Xenonmatch bulbs up for grabs with less than 3 hours on them, if someone wants them just pm me in order to stay within forum rules.

RB, before you remove the fogs, mind snapping a few shots of your current bulb/projector set up (good for a before and after comparison) cause I'd like to see how yours are looking as they shine on a wall.

Sure thing, I was going to do a comparison shot with one side HID and one side with halogen bulb as well, I am going to sharpen the cutoff a bit if I can but I will take a few pics for you from how the "out of the box" cutoff looks.

thanks, I may attempt to modify the cut off tomorrow myself, if I have time :(

Ricky, if you get lazy, or forget some kind of shot for the comparo, I'll have the camera handy for my install no doubt!

I too, am going for minimal color and thus a razor sharp cutoff with these fogs!

...think "fricken laserbeams"!!! Lol

Well yes S I look forward to your pics too! And don't get it twisted I don't want a colorband that compromises cutoff whatsoever! I think in my pm I may have alluded to that.

To me razor sharp cutoff is much more important than color at the cutoff!!

exactly, function over fashion, that's whats driving me nuts with mine.

Read y'all loud and clear! My beams comment was comment was regarding the sharpness/crispness not presence of color. :thumbup:

That being said, depending on the lens (I done know of it's clear or fresnel) you may only be able to minimize the color, but not eliminate it completely.

I think it's clear S! I have to double check it later on though but it already has some color at the cutoff

Clockwork, have you tweaked yours at all lately? My HID's should be in from TRS in the next few days, was wondering if you made any progress adjusting the cutoff at all.

As well, I noticed my right side fog is higher than my left, I assume the adjustment screw will bring the projector down some so I can make them both flat.

Hey Ricky, Mine are being delivered tomorrow....:nanana: lol.

...But I haven't got the ECS stuff yet. Fancy a race?

RB, No I've not done an adjusting of them. I'm a bit busy partying these last 5 days a the 10 day long Calgary Stampede event. ridiculous. save my liver.
But I should be able to get on it in a weeee bit here I hope. I'm very curious if I can fix it.

^^ After what ya'll went through first with the flood, then the rail incident right after.....who can blame any Calgarian for making the most of the stampede! Party on!!http://www.xoutpost.com/images/smilies/beerchug.gif

Cheers X5!!

TRS stuff should be here today! It's out to the garage I go later S!

You ordered your fog housings from ECS or ebay? Or do you mean you haven't got the TRS stuff yet?

Got them from eBay (already delivered) but I'm stil waiting on all my additional pieces (motor dif, trans mounts, plugs and vanos kit) which came from ECS.

any more updates guys?
the starting motor went on my 850 so I'm trying to solve that fiasco before I get back on the projector fogs project.

As with any X5 there are always issues to work out before getting to the fun stuff. I'm hoping to get mine installed this weekend, but I couldn't get my X aligned last weekend because the tie rods are seized so I'm waiting for those to come in and get my alignment finally done, and also I replaced my 9 year old stock xenon bulbs for new ones over the weekend (Morimoto's) and am having issues with them firing up, so I either have bulbs that don't play well with our Hella ballasts, or my ballasts are going to need replacing as well.

Always something...

So true.

My status remains unchanged as well. Hopefully ill have everything by end of week to get this moving though!

sorry to hear of the lighting troubles RB. Hpe you can solve them quickly!!
I feel your pain. I have to wait till next week now to get my mech to fix my starter motor. it's impossible to fix myself. very well hidden :(

Ok, so I finally got my swag; and had a couple mins to briefly fire one up.

For clarification, I purchased the Depo units....They appear to be of pretty goof quality...but (and maybe Im wrong on this one) is it just me or is the front lens glass, and not polycarb? It feels/sounds like glass....which has me a bit worried, but I will be 3m clear bra-ing them regardless anyway.

I did get a chance to briefly fire one with the morimoto HID kit, and they DEFINITELY need some tweaking....but since I really only had 10 mins to peek them I can definitively say how difficult it's going to be. There did seem to be quite a bit of intense blue at short distances, which leads me to believe that the shield needs to be pushed forward; but I'll update that once I can confirm.

Before anyone asks, Yes, I will take pics as I go to hopefully help others out! :)

I notice that even with the halogen bulbs the cutoff is quite colorful, which leads me to believe yes it does need sharpening the shield towards the lens. Been a busy weekend for me but I have not had much time to play with them yet (as X5SND knows I've had other issues replacing my tie rods and my D2S bulbs in the headlight this past few days)

You know what S? I think you're right, they might be glass. I'll take a look again later, but like you said, the quality definitely looks to be there.

I did notice today that they look to be relatively easy to open. So I MAY venture down that road to pull them apart and tweak the projector that way. It should also allow me to change out the pins on the housing plug so that I can swap the amp connectors on the bulb into the factory plug....giving it a completely factory look.

On the bright side, they aren't nearly as expensive to replace as say a headlamp unit, so if it doesn't work out I'm not that worse off.

X5SND and RB, they definitely need tweeking. I'm still needing to do this myself ;(

After 20 mins with just a straight screw driver and a razor blade

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/23/6a8y3e7a.jpg

Well done sir, you still have the pioneer spirit!

I'm guessing the "use the pick through the bulb hole" method of sharpening the cutoff didn't work so well, or did you just say screw that I'm opening these!

It was a couple reasons. First being that I really want to see if I can make it completely factory look by ditching the AMP connectors in favor of the BMW connectors --- Eliminating the need to drill any more holes or seal anything with silicone. Secondly, I was a bit hesitant to start poking the shield with a pick if I'm honest...it applies all the pressure to a point, but you need to bend the whole shield forward to get uniform results. Lastly.....there was 1/4 of a fingerprint on the projector lens at about 11 o'clock, needless to say the OCD was not happy about that one. :)

for anyone who wishes to make a wire harness to go from factory ellipsoids connections to the needed connection for a projector housing, here are the parts.
H11 male pins and black housing are from e-bay. rest are factory bmw parts

Nice job cutting the grommet hole on your cap man!

I will have H11 to BMW pigtails available if someone else wants to do this conversion (I will be going HID and no longer need the pigtails)

Clockwork be patient, X5SND and I are working hard on these Depos! (he has made more progress than I have so far though, not much time for me to work on them!)

RB, I hope to go back to HID's too for the projectors, making my harness obsolete for my use too, but I figured I may as well build it incase I'm staying with halogen bulbs. plus it was cheap to make essentially and saved factory harnesses :)

and I'm hoping to get back to my fogs too soon. just been quite busy to play with that project. Thanks for keeping the updates rolling guys.

So far in X5SND's findings, the shield actually needs to be tilted BACKWARDS carefully on all sides towards the bulb itself in order to sharpen things up and enhance color output along the cutoff line.

I am theorizing that this difference from what I perceived in Lightwerkz install where he most likely picked the shield FORWARD towards the lens in order to get his sharpness, is because he used an H3 rebased bulb, which is longer in focal length than a halogen H3, whereas myself and X5SND are both using H3C rebased bulbs from TRS which are basically exactly copies of a true H3 bulb in terms of height of capsule, focal point in the center, etc. This may be why he has found so far that for our version of rebased HID bulbs that the shield needs to be tipped backwards towards the bulb hole in order to sharpen/increase color.

I bought a set of picks from harbor freight for a buck, one is a 90 degree angle and 1 is a rounded hook, I will do some experimenting over the weekend hopefully.

the focal length of the light source is paramount and I know thats where the adjustments have to come into play

Updating this a bit....

I've adjusted the shields with the projectors out of the housings, and as I've relayed to RB, have discovered a couple potential issues along the way as far as tweaking via pick method. Bear with me as Ill update this with pics some point hopefully later today to better illustrate what I mean...

So after getting the projectors out of the housings, and playing with the shields for some time, I noticed what was happening when I was pulling the shield back, was that it wasn't actually bending the shield, but rather the tab that it mounts on. This was giving me all sorts of issues; reflections of flares across the cutoff...a phantom flare if you will, that would not dissipate until I started playing with the tab mounting tab on the projector housing. Pulling the shield back and pushing up on the lower mounting tab is what finally cleaned up the cutoff. Next was to play with the curvature of the shield itself to get that cutoff straight across with minimal color.

http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/t...9.jpg~original

I should point out that at this stage although my cutoffs had very little color, they were both frowning as a result of their change in position. This is where time and patients comes In as the way you remedy this is by increasing or decreasing the radius of the arc on the shield. In my case I had to increase the radius (decrease the sharpness of the curve) on the outer portions of the shield to bring the ends back up towards the horizontal. It's a painstakingly slow process, and only one that can be done with the projectors out of the housing!

As of now my projectors are ready to go back into their housings for a test fitment (to double check my cutoff rotation once on the X) before thoroughly cleaning everything one last time and re-sealing everything back up.

As for the wiring on the bulb, my original plan of utilizing the factory housing plug has been replaced with RB's idea of removing the pins to the plug on the housing and drilling out the holes a bit to then disassemble the AMP connectors and route the wires through the housing. This way negates the need to pull the whole housing apart in the event of a bulb change, and keeps the separate sealed connectors to prevent an accidental arc between connections on a dual pin plug.
http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/t...psf69bd95a.jpg

So unfortunately, in my quest to get these things done....I broke the number one rule of light retrofitting: If you're not using butyl to seal the housings, be sure to wait at least 24 hours before firing everything up.

...Long story short, I had to re-open my housings to clean the lens' and will have to seal them up again. I did however discover a potential issue with using an HID kit in these housings; HEAT (or lack there of). My theory is that since we're using a 35W arc lamp, despite being significantly hotter at the arc....it does not produce the same amount of heat overall (compared to the 55W halogen) that the housing was designed around, thus it's unable to "boil off" the moisture. This can lead to moisture condensing on the lens of the housings. That being said it should be an easy workaround via vacuum line fittings to key areas of the housing to get that air moving (and some foam to prevent dust from entering the housing).

Hopefully I'll be able to wrap this up by end of day friday, and grab some shots this weekend of how they look.

S,

Phenomenal work and pics above! Really like that clean idea for routing the wires too, that looks like it worked really nicely for you :) I would also put some silicone around the grommet portion just for extra bit of sealing, but I'm worried about why you are having moisture issues (could it be because they were fired up before the sealant had enough time to dry?), as it has not seemed to be a problem with members in the past who ran HID in their projector fogs.

Perhaps making the hole in the stock cap with the entire grommet intact would allow enough "airflow" ventilation to not have moisture buildup? This is why I am hesitant to break the factory seal on these housings, and although you have done an awesome job with the "frickin laser beams", I will most likely be settling for a less perfect cutoff in hopes of avoiding any post install issues from opening the fogs up.

This got put on the back burner this week as I finish redoing my porch (we have a bbq for my birthday coming up in less than 2 weeks) and I have plenty of housework to do. I'm hoping to take some time over the weekend to pull these babies off the car finally and play around. Where did you end up mounting the ballasts?

guys, i am trying to understand, what the problem is that you are rectifying...

is the problem that the cut-off line is not straight but rather curved when projected onto a wall?

or, the problem is that, that line between the light and the shadow is not a sharp cut line but a "fuzzy" transition from the light to the dark and that there is a light shifting in the ultra-violet/purple color?

The stock cutoff is a bit fuzzy, so we were trying to make the cutoff slighter sharper (member Lightwerkz mentions sharpening the cutoff by tweaking the shield with a pick) in his post from I believe 2010, so we were updating the process a few years later as he never really went into detail of what he modified or tweaked on the shield in order to get the razor sharp cutoff (with some nice blue flicker) that he showed in the thread.

I'm going to try some before and afters when I do mine, although I may not get as drastic of a change as S did since I won't be taking mine completely apart. Would like to show you what the cutoff looks like "out of the box" and as well after some slight changes to the shield.

Ricky, another year closer to the big 3-0 eh? (read: retirement, :rofl:).
I'm not sure as to why I have moisture problems either....BUT heres the good news. It may not have boiled off the lens since the water vapor was also mixed with fumes of the uncured sealant. After opening up the housings again, and leaving everything to cure (so I could cut it all off cleanly) there was an oily film on the glass the next day. Whether or not this contributed to my issues I couldn't say for sure.

I should mention that when I did those jeep housings, I was having moisture build up which was from a lack of ventilation in the housing (the factory venting system on those particular housings used the same membrane sticker as our fogs), and adding some vents remedied this.

I'm simply taking these setbacks in stride, as nothing is for certain when you start messing around with things like this! lol

As for the ballasts, I pulled off the bumper and tucked them right below the crash-bar bracket. They fit pretty much perfectly, and are completely out of the way.

http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/t...e.jpg~original

http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/t...1.jpg~original

T, the problem when you use a arc lamp in place of a conventional incandescent, the placement/length and shape of the hotspot changes. This produces an output that is not sharp, and thus not as "useable" as it would be if the projector was properly focused to match the light source in use.

More or less the result we're chasing (ignore the mess in the garage!):
http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/t...7.jpg~original

so, you guys take into the account that the lens in front of the light bulb is a magnifying lens that has a specific focal point that is projected on the front surface, and the cut-off is "sharp" only at the point of focus, at a specific distance from the lens?

and that the curvature of the optical lens breaks the produced light into the spectrum components of the light that are highly visible at the edge of the beam pattern, and thus producing the bluish-purplish tint at the cut-off line that actually blurs the line...

Think of an overhead projector (or any projector for that matter of fact) - the lines at the edges of a picture (as well as the picture itself) will be blurry if the distance to the projected surface is different from the focal point of the lens.

have you calculated the focal point of the headlight projector lens? are you evaluating the cut-off line at a pre-measured distance?

I am not an optical engineer but i suspect, you are chasing a unicorn in your pursuit of perfection... {wink-wink}

Basically. There's a "sweet spot" that the shield can be adjusted to maximize the sharpness of the cutoff while minimizing the color across the cutoff at a specified distance.

In my case, I adjusted the shield to have a maximum sharpness at ~20ft (IMO, about the maximum usable distance of a fog light), anything further is where the foreground lighting in my low beams takes over.

Looks pretty close to perfection to me S.

And August 9 I will be turning 27, don't remind me that I have officially been a licensed driver for 10 years, it depresses me getting old lol. I wish I could retire at 30, I'll have to keep playing Mega Millions or hoping to get on Shark Tank lol!

Can you just clarify the above (the factory membrane bit in bold) as I'm not quite sure I follow you. I'm under the impression these housings are pretty well sealed as I don't see ventilation elbows like on our headlights, and you kept the back cap intact so I can only think that perhaps there was trapped moisture inside the housing and combined with the fumes from the sealant may have been an issue. Anytime I open up housings I try to keep them in similar temperature environments (i.e. don't go in a cold garage opening them up then bring them in a warm house) as sometimes the change in temperature/humidity traps some moisture inside which needs to be burnt off.

Keep me updated, I hope you have it figured out now. How hard was it getting those amp connectors apart? I should be able to get the red "locks" off with a pin/paper clip right?

If you separate that black cap on the back you get this:

http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/t...8.jpg~original


The white paper looking stuff is actually a semi-permeable membrane.

Edit: Im on my way out right now, but Ill explain everything else in more detail when I get back/have a few mins free!

Now I get it! So in essence our idea of utilizing the factory mounting for the wires is much better since it keeps the factory venting intact (I wonder why no one else had issues to date with moisture?

Oh btw, definitely getting Tapatalk (will make much easier for progress of pics as I do things!)

X5SND, your cut-off's seem PERFECT now. I'd LOVE to have something CLOSE to that sharpness/light dispursion. Mine is just a hot spot of light in the middle of the cut off and provides less light than using a halogen bulb.

Exactly. IMO it looks cleaner as well. As for the moisture, I'm not really certain why either...doesn't really bother me though, I'll resolve it either way.

There was a thread on HidP on how to pull the AMP connectors apart which I tried to follow, but found that some of the instructions were a bit off. Once I figured out how they actually came apart it was a piece of cake. All you need is a small straight screw driver, needle nose tweezers and either a long pin/needle (I used a mini steel BBQ skewer) to lift the tab up inside the connector shell.

Clockwork, maybe toss up a picture of your output and lets see if we can't figure out what's going on with yours.

X5SND, I'll throw them back in the X soon and take a pic. They drove me nuts so bad I had to remove them and put the ellipsoidal hosuings with HID kit back in.

I re-sealed mine early this morning...and learning my lesson from last time, Ill be letting the housings sit for at least 24 hours before I toss them in and fire them. Should be able to get some output shots late tomorrow!

Also, I added a couple vents to the inner shroud as well as one to the outer housing to make certain my previous moisture problem was resolved. I'll update this post with pics on that stuff later on today.

maybe leave the back caps off so the gases vent out while curing?

^^ I actually placed them over an air vent around noon with the backs off to circulate the air inside!

Some pics of the vent I placed up top (3/16" vacuum elbow trimmed to fit). With a piece of foam in the end; it prevents junk from getting in while still allowing hot moist air to escape the housing.

http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps859052aa.jpg

I also used some brass washers I had kicking around to give a bit of a lateral adjustment on the fogs (for an overall wider beam). As it sits right now, I have one on the drivers side, and 2 on the passenger side inner screws....once I fire them up I should have A better idea as to how many I need. The beam was a bit left bias when I tested them last night (hence the single washer on the drivers side)...so once I am able to test them out I should know for sure...

http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/t...psb4cd519d.jpg

talk about working in tight quarters, my dude!

X5SND -

Where would you recommend I get replacement bulbs....
TRS or just fleabay

One of my 3K Fogs went out..

TRS - get the Morimoto H3C bulbs (what X5SND and I have), fleabay bulbs suck especially in the bulb category. Morimoto is at least a quality rebased bulb.

While I have not done any bulb research.....about a couple years back, I paid a premium for the stuff. However, and (again, I have not looked and really dug into it), but alot of the fleabay stuff looked awfully the same - coming out of the same cookie cutter, with a different sticker or a nice aluminum case for presentation purposes --- aka, the packaging,

While the exterior and packaging may appear similar, it's what's inside the bulb that counts. The shape/size and tolerances of the electrodes are likely to be of higher quality on a genuine branded bulb. Also consider the quality of salts used inside the bulb as well....

Lastly, I'm hoping if you're using an HID setup, its in lights that utilize projectors with the appropriate cutoff. If not, please do us all a favor an stick in the proper incandescent. :)

I just read this thread in it's entirety.....

Cliff notes version.
Pros and cons of H3 versus H3C.

I don't recall using a "short H3" when I did mine.
TRS only has a H3C
Am I better off with the slightly longer (h3) which I know fits.

BTW, what is the normal lifespan of the bulbs ? Just for my reference...

Ha. I'm inclined to try out the SVS bulbs on the mains, but man, $200 to replace a working of 85122....that are 4 years old . Ah, decisions, decision

The H3C (short bulb) is closer to the size/shape of its incandescent counterpart. This translates to a more accurate beam spread.

Most bulbs are in the range of 2500-3000 hours, rated lifespan (the time it takes to get to half their original brightness). That's under "ideal" conditions...so realistically it's probably less.

Interesting. I did not know the h3c was a shorter bulb so it should be closer to the focal point of an filament h3 bulb. Good to know. Gonna buy some and then try the fittment again. So does that mean most HiD bulbs cn be purchased in shorter lengths? Say an H11c? I will google now.

will the cutoff change ?
I tweaked my shields awhile back...and would hate to retweak them

Any time you change the position of the light source, you have to compensate....whether it be through moving the shield, or spacing out the lens.

Clockwork, im not sure about the other bulbs....but from what I understand the H3C that RB and I are using have a shorter burner than a regular H3 HID. HIDPlanet would be the best place to go if you want specifics of the differences between the 2. If you were using an HID kit that has full-sized burners with the h3 base, that could very well be where you're experiencing problems with the output/cutoff...

Got my TRS bulbs in....
I'm not a 12v/ HID guru

The lighting connectors from bulb to end connectors I know.
There is another set of wires in the grommet. One with leads on them...
Anybody know what this wire is for - cause it sure does not apply to me. I'm probably going to end up snipping these out and sealing that hole in the grommet..

Do that. Those wires are not needed, just the two wires with the amp connection to the ballast.

All I had was urethane based sealants....so I plugged the gasket. Going to let it dry for a good week before I swap these puppies in. It cures slowly..

What did you do with the factory plug on the housing? Did you seal that up as well?

Nope. Just cut the hole for the grommet that sits on the cap

Came here to post this, results were just from using some small picks from harbor freight.

The beam is perfectly flat and level, I just couldn't hold the projector and camera at the same time.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/07/yjebe3ep.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

Make sure you are aligning your H3 bulbs using the bottom "horizontal" notch on the projector bulb mount, NOT the top "half circle" notch.

You'll know what I mean when looking at them. I was aligning with the top notch at first and my output looked like complete garbage!

Gonna work on the other one later on and hopefully get them installed in a couple days.

Here is a pic I tried to take of what notch on the projector to align the bulb with

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/07/humuqanu.jpg

That's the bottom notch

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/07/aquvyvy2.jpg

This is how it looks at the top, it looks like something's off but trust me its right as long as the bottom notch is in place!

Hope that helps Clockwork!

Rb, when I get back from Austria i will install my H3c bulbs and adjust them from the bottom rectangular tab and not the semi circle tab.
I too have a pick set so i will have to try playing. Did u only play with the cut off shield or the shields mounting points too like X5snd did?
I assume if u were putting the picks in through the rear of housing (where bulb goes) you must have removed that h3c bulb a bunch of times to play with the shield?

By the way, appreciate the update. Looking forward to closing this chapter!

update for Clockwork and others:

Well the second one didn't go as easy as the first one did, after a few picking sessions, I had it close to the cutoff of the first one, but not exact, and my OCD was driving me crazy so I kept on picking, pushing etc.


Basically now the projector is loose inside the housing, the beam looks like shit, and I'm going to chalk it up to too much playing around and get another housing from ebay for $61.


The picking of the shield should be done in extremely small increments! I should have left it be when it was 90% to what I got on the final result of the first one, but I learned my lesson. There's only so much pushing and pulling that the projector will take when its still together in the housing, before you start loosening things and abusing the integrity of the fog light itself.


I only played with the cut off shield itself, pulling it back slightly on all directions with a pick (and if the beam was "smiling" at the cutoff I would press the outer corners downwards a bit). You're right I just removed and reinstalled the bulb a bunch of times, probably had to do it 10 times on the housing I messed up before I finally gave up.

The first one went pretty easy, I only had to make about 5 adjustments before I got the result you see above. Basically once you start seeing the blue and increased sharpness at the cutoff, DON'T play with it too much more, you're risking losing the focal point or disfiguring the shield.


Enjoy Austria Clockwork!

FOGS ARE IN!



But I'm still working out some slight issues, I may need to hook up an actual relay harness instead of the canbus modules from TRS, since I have gotten 1 error on the dash since installing, and I REALLY need to adjust the alignment point on the car on the passenger side, as its completely cockeyed when I hooked it up (by comparison, the drivers side is perfect).

I also say this because now that I have dug into the archives, I see a lot of the guys with HID's in the fogs are used to having to press the fog switch twice before firing, and I noticed it once yesterday and once today so far, that upon the first time I hit the switch, the fog lights fail to light!

I've seen battery relay harnesses for about 6 bucks that I could use in line with the can-bus modules, but if I still get occasional errors I will scrap the modules completely, as you can buy a relay harness with included resistors for about 10 bucks.


Also keeping an eye out for any accumulated moisture, which I may have to deal with as X5SND did (I had some residual "fog" on the bottom of the lens last night after driving, although I silicone around the grommet on the cap, like S said earlier, moisture might be from not enough air flow to move the moisture out), will keep Clockwork and such updated, but project is starting to tire me out. I don't need perfection, but need both beams to be flat, the fog lights to turn on on the FIRST time I hit the button on the headlight switch, and no errors on my dash.


I did contact Lightwerkz today and he said if I sent the lights in or brought them to the shop he could adjust the beam pattern/cutoff for me, and it wouldn't be much at all to do. I'm just waiting to see if I can correct the mounting of the passenger fog first, and to be sure I'm without moisture, so I can decide if I need to come see him or not.


Hell of a lot of light on the road though from these 35w 4300k H3 bulbs...

RB, thanks for the update again. I'm sadly back in Canada again after an amazing trip through some gorgeous countries in Europe. I'm in he middle of moving and getting my 3 car garage built now so my car's are homeless for another month or so, BUT after that I plan on tackling the fog lights again.
my drivers side fog is "cock eyed" too so thats what drives me nuts most of all honestly. I'll play with cut off shield with picks through the bulb entrance untill I loose my patience and see what happens. I have the H3C sitting in my boxes of things to be moved, so all I can say is.... SOON (as I lick my lips and roll my hands in one another).

OK well I am pretty much having the same problem S was having, some inner fog buildup on the inside of the lenses after driving, I'm going to perhaps try some silica gel packets to see if that does the trick but I guess he is correct in that the housing needs some air flow to keep moisture from building up. I still have some powering up issues. Consistently after I start the car and strike the ballasts via the fog light switch, the first time fails to light up. No error on the dash or anything like that. I wait a few seconds before firing them up too, but maybe not long enough. EDIT: Just tested a theory of mine and it seems to work, if you notice the "GREEN RED YELLOW" Light section next to mileage on your cluster which is lit up during the systems check at startup, then fades black, if I wait until that screen goes blank (basically after the startup checks are done) both ballasts fire up without a problem and with no errors on the dash! You just have to wait for the systems check to be done with, and this is OK, since theoretically when you turn on your X at night you would turn on the low beams first, let them warm up, then fire up the fogs. I will test this again next time I am driving it to see if it is consistent.

I also got a CHECK FRONT FOGLAMPS error that is intermittent, I got home today and after I shut the X down it popped up on the OBC as a "shut down" message", even though there was nothing on startup. Then I restarted the X, and popped the fogs on again, left them on for a few seconds, then shut off and no error on the OBC for shutdown. EDIT: See above.


Maybe I should just take out the CANBUS morimoto modules and just install a traditional relay harness with some 50ohm resistors in line. $12.49 on the 'bay, thoughts? If doing this would avoid me having to wait until the systems check is done on startup I wouldn't mind switching out the modules and just installing a simple battery relay harness!

HID Conversion Kit Relay Harness H1 H3 H4 H6 H6M H7 H11 Resistors 50W 6ohm | eBay

RB just get some error cancelling load resistors (see e-bay link below). I bought a set for $7 on the bay. used them for years in my X and I get no firing up issues with my HID's.

Having said that, I always wait to let my car start and run it's gauntlet of tests before I even drive away, which only takes a few seconds, so I just put my seatbelt on while waiting.

BUT I get an issue on my dash IF I turn the fogs off and within 10 seconds turn them back on, cause one of the bulbs will not fire up. I believe it to be a ballast issue. You need to give them enough time in between turning off and back on so they dont crap out.

2X Warning Canceller Anti Flicker Decoders FOR HID Xenon Error Warning Capacitor | eBay

I basically already have those installed, just the TRS kind:

Morimoto Standalone Can-Bus - Relay Harnesses from The Retrofit Source Inc

They came with my Morimoto ballasts (which have zero issues) as well, so I know the package is fine. I would just like to know that if I install the battery relay harness I listed above (which include actual 50w6ohm resistors on each bulb), will the operation still have to be the same (i.e. do I have to wait until the startup checks are through before firing the fogs, or could I start the car, turn on the headlights and fire up the fogs as well, maybe a couple seconds earlier, without issue)

Basically I want the HID fogs to operate like stock, so if installing the relay harness with additional resistors, and ditching the Canbus modules works, I will do that. The canbus modules "work", but they still require a degree of difference from stock operation, in that you will have sufficient power to the ballasts, and you can avoid errors on the dash, but you have to be mindful of things. I'd rather just install a new relay harness with resistors and not have to think about that crap (or whether I waited long enough to fire my ballasts up, etc)




Stay tuned...

Ricky, did you get any input from Caesar to resolve the moisture issue? I can understand your frustrations with what should have been a (for the most part..a "simple") straight swap. Evidently I was talking to a buddy the other day and he mentioned something about the older range rovers having a tube that went from the fog housings to (possibly?) the intake, to keep air moving in the fog housings. Since I've already resolved my moisture issue with multiple vents....it may be something to consider since you should be able to utilize a single smaller vent (and engine vacuum) in place of lager multiple vents to the atmosphere.....just make sure you T in a fitting BEFORE the airfilter....not after. At the end of the day I still believe firmly that the moisture is simply due to the reduction of heat output in the H3C kits we are using to the standard D2S sized burner; and of course the 55W halogen that the housing was designed around.

The starting issue you mentioned earlier I can't really relate to/provide insight to since In my case (as per our PM), A no-fire only happened one of the first days I had my fogs in, and hasn't occurred since. My suggestion would be just code off the bulb monitoring for the fogs...lets be honest here.....unless your half way to blind, the increase (or lack there of) in foreground lighting from these things should be pretty evident!

Im guessing that the differences between our two cases are directly related to the fact that your dealing with a pre-facelift an mine is post. Nevertheless, hopefully we can get this narrowed down for the rest of the community!