N62 oil catch can.
 

Hey guys here's a link to a 545i with oil catch cans installed. Seems to have fixed his cars smoking problem.

545i Dual Catch Can setup with pics - 5Series.net - Forums

interesting writeup.... I wonder if he tried to change out his valve cover gaskets before adding the cans?

I have seriously considered doing the valve cover gaskets, but I have NO leaks and would hate to have them after :(

if it ain't broken - don't fix it!!!!;)

Agreed!

But if it's broke from the factory, it's up to us to fix it correctly :)

Now we just need to figure out how to incorporate a single catch can that will drain back into the oil sump when we turn off the motor... now that would be slick!

Sadly cant see his pictures

I think he stated that he changed his valve cover gaskets about a year ago. I'm kinda with you...why not fix the vacuum leak first. But then again the oil catch can seems to be the quick fix.

This recent thread discusses a catch can.

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...006-4-8is.html

I will actually be trying this,

@ person above, you have to make an acc to see pics there,

Parts cost $33, ordered them a few days ago should be here soon, hopefully works, will make a thread after i install.

Let us know how it goes. You might wanna try this as well.

Oil consumption ? remedy ? - BMW E60 5-Series Forum | 5Post.com

A fix for Oil consumption problems

Investigation of Oil Consumption Issues should begin with the CCV / Intake system. Oil in the intake should not be considered normal and reduced to as minimal amount as possible. Oil that is sucked thru the intake will cause carbon build up on the intake/exhaust valves and the pistons. This will also contribute to catalytic failure and have an effect on engine performance.

My car: 2006 BMW 550I V8 N62TU - 94,500 miles
(No external leaks)
After I replaced the CCVs, It smoked and would not pass Smog Inspection. These issues were fixed with a carbon cleaning chemical regiment (Sea Foam). But it continued to use a quart + of oil every 2>3 tanks of fuel. (Everyone had previously said that this was normal for a BMW) After my modification to the crankcase vent system - It may have used - maybe (it's hard to tell) less then a pint after 2>3 tanks full of fuel.

My Fix: (about 1 hour)
Parts needed; 1 - Scotch Brite (3M) pad #7447
2- Stainless steel garden hose screens
(mine had o-ring attached)
-Cut 4 pieces of Scotch pad approx. 1.75 X 1.75 inches.
-Trim rubber washer attached to the hose screen so it fits snug within the valve cover vent tube.
- With CCV diaphragms removed, fold over 1 piece of pad and insert within the slot of the inlet vent port. Be sure pad is pushed low enough so it will not interfere with the diaphragm when reinstalled, but firm enough to stay in place. Reassemble and repeat on opposite valve cover. This is a pre-filter to prevent oil from CCV.
-With vent tube removed (valve covers to intake), fold over 1 piece of pad and insert within valve cover vent outlet nipple. (It may be necessary to trim some length of pad for vent tube reinstallation) Insert screen above pad - this keeps pad from being sucked into the intake manifold. Repeat on opposite valve over and carefully snap vent tube in place. This is a after CCV filter to stop any oil that may have made it past the pre-filter.
-Top off engine oil and keep track of progress.
- I will continue a carbon cleaning regiment at least every 10,000 miles.

Note; This Scotch Brite pad #7447 is about 1/4 in. thick - a thicker pad can be used as available - just compensate for this change.

Hard to follow you without Pics Able. I don't know what vent tube you are talking about. Do we have one on the 4.8 guys?

Here are the pics from guys first post you cant see...

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/z...2/null-152.jpg

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/z...2/null-150.jpg

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/z...2/null-149.jpg

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/z...2/null-153.jpg

How often have you replaced the scotch Brite pad?

This morning I pulled apart both sides to check pads just for you. (Total time to inspect was 10 minutes) Both pre-CCV and both aft-CCV pads look great. Oil level has not moved on dipstick. I'm still in the RD faze but so far so good. I think the pads will last quite some time.

Can you take pics please. I like this idea better than the catch can idea.

I'll try - I may have to reply in 2 posts - For some reason it won't allow me to upload multiple photos.

Attachment 59741

2nd photo

Attachment 59742

That is crazy. Where is the second pics location. Is that closer to the intake manifold. I need to take a look. I don't have the blue smoke stuff, but yea, oil in the intake is no good.

Remember I'm dealing with a N62TU - Not sure what you have but the theory can be adapted to any engine.

The 2nd photo is the outlet tube just above the CCV on valve covers.

Note; Always be careful with plastic snap fittings so they don't break.

Please help spread the word - I'm sick of dealing with closed minded mechanics that think their way is the only way.

The solutions I am posting may not fix everyones issues but for $100 or less it doesn't hurt to give it a try.

Shade tree engineering at it's finest!

Call it what you will - but it works.

A little history;
I've been a mechanic since 1978 - worked at car, truck & motorhome stealerships (boy do I have stories) & independents - I have a truck repair buisness to this day (opened 1991) with major fleet accounts - I think I was even drinking a rum & coke when I thought this 1 up.

:DChill---that was a compliment!!!!

Sorry - It's hard to tell

While this type of repair is handy during the end of days (read apocalypse), it's really nothing more then a corrective action that in NO way addresses the root cause issue that's causing the problem.

BMW designed the systems to function correctly when everything is in working order. After several repairs along these lines, the systems will be rendered undiagnosable/unrepairable due to the "band-aids on bullet wounds".

Most here will agree that when looking at pre-owned vehicles, seeing these types of repairs QUICKLY remove them from the list of accepable vehicles.

If a shop returned my vehicle with that installed, I would be breaking my foot off in the shop managers butt.


These type of repairs "fly in the face" of your shops mission statement below............QUOTE

"The company A B Able Truck & Rv Repair is developing dynamically in the industry of General Automotive Repair Shops. The company's activity is directed on innovative development and supply of goods and services in the areas of General Automotive Repair Shops. The development of new technologies helps company A B Able Truck & Rv Repair to take first place in the selected segment of the market using its products and services. Rating of A B Able Truck & Rv Repair speaks for itself, the company name has already spent several years in leading positions in business. Also comments about the company are very grateful.
The company A B Able Truck & Rv Repair offers a variety of programs to provide the full range of the General Automotive Repair Shops. Competent specialists are helping to make the right and the best choice based on the capabilities and desires of each client. The unique combination of technological capabilities, scientific potential and years of experience allows company to realize the most daring ideas and projects occupying a leading position in the market for goods and services in Escondido.
Well established team of professionals and associates is working at A B Able Truck & Rv Repair. They has worked successfully since the establishment of the company. Staff shows excellent results and knowledge in business for many years. This is helping company to become more and more important among the majority of competitors. And the clients have a greater confidence. The company A B Able Truck & Rv Repair ensures adequate technical support to all business partners and customers. You can get expert advice on the phone (760) 747-9814. Company is located at 1046 Stonecrest Ln. You can get better description of A B Able Truck & Rv Repair by contacting the company’s representatives."

End Ouote

Wth content like "technological capabilities and scientific potential" you may want to go back to the basics of good vehicle repair, root cause ID and correction.

Wow - Where did you find that??? Sounds pretty impresive - but I'm a sole propriator and that phone number hasn't been used in years. I have never hired another mechanic (except for a periodic helper) as A B Able Truck. I'm even impressed.

A B Able Truck & Rv Repair in Escondido, San Diego, California. Contact - 1046 Stonecrest Ln, (760) 747-9814.

By the way - The problem is the Crankcase Vent Systems on a number of manufacturers - Check the posts on other forums - Here's a press release from Corvette:

PCV-INTEGRATED ROCKER COVERS
One of the most distinctive features of the new LS1 Corvette engine is it's domed rocker covers, which house the patent-pending integrated positve crankcase ventilation system designed to enhance oil economy and oil life while reducing oil consumption and contributing to low emissions. ** yada yada yada ** covers contain baffles that separate oil and air from the crankcase gases - about three times the oil/air separation of previous engine.

We all know it's a problem - even us non-engineer type - shade tree-ers.

Nice mission statement - Do you think I can plagiarize it? But they spelled my name wrong and I would have to change the phone number. I'm also getting lazy in my old age, so I don't know if I really want any additional business it may generate. i told my wife to get a second job so I can retire - but she won't.

Ya'll mus not a had a big ol tracker brak down in da bac fortee. Noss dat dare tak somaa dat shade tree stuff.


Was all the weesal sh**t bout misson statmons an bunch of otter stuff dat jus go rit down the ol honey hole or no-n wit no cents reads ifn the Sears catalog is round. Jez-- da feller just fixin a skeegee withinout buyin a nu-un at deal-r. Eyes gonna widdlel one outa soma my cherre tree foren I gets ripped a newun from dem city slickrs. I kant mak one liken his lesson I pounds it outa a hors shu.

:rofl: You funny :rofl:

Why would you call somebody out like this? :dunno: Nobody thinks of this as a permanent fix. We all realize this is a band aid. I appreciate Able truck sharing his solution to the problem. You come across as an asshole. When you have this problem and run to the mechanic, please share your repair bill with us. Im personally tired of dumping thousands into my car, just because it says BMW.

If I had that problem I'd do the same as OP in a skinny minute, a New York minute, quicker than I could eat a gummy bear. Besides, while some have corrected the problem by the very expensive process of valve guides and seals, after reading most of the posts on this issue I question if that is the only fix or something that was replaced in the process is just as likely to be the culprit in some cases. I say, thanks for sharing and keep us posted, or at least some of us, how this plays out.

@tiagx5

I agree with pcb5... We all know this isnt a bmw engineered fix, but sometimes you dont need to think outside the box to fix something... Sometimes the simple way works best, not only that he is contributing to something alot of n62s have problems with including mine. And if your so "fix it the bmw way" why dont you send us all a check so we can spend your money, if this prevents oil from geting in the intake it IS a fix and wont cause other issues cause its obviously stopping the issue..

Stop acting... No better way to say it "a big asshole" to someone who has actually contributed, versus you contributing jack shit to this thread.

What a prick..

Some good ol fashun fixin goin on

Was in no way trying to be a prick, am pointing out that there is a cascading effect when repairs do not correct root causes of problems.

Maybe Corvette has found the solution (time will tell). I'm not to keen on a Dyson Vaccum (I've never used one) but they sell the shit out of them. Even in the truck repair world they have had to reroute the breather tube for emission reasons. But they were smart enough to use a filter to separate oil from air. It's about the size of my BMW air filter.

It's been my life experience that when people react with closed minded negativity as TiAgX5 or BMWOEM1 does - They usually have something to loose or have done something wrong. They may make money on the issue or maybe he's an engineer protecting his profession. Most TBS (SIB) are admissions that an engineer or a dicision maker has phucked up. And nobody wants to get hit in the wallet.

I think TiAgX5 is a tree hugger that hates to see anybody mess with the emissions stuff on a vehicle. Or, maybe he works for the EPA....and he's about start issuing fines to everybody on the forum that's altered their vehicles. We're all screwed! We've have big brother after us now.

What happened to the days of the ole Chevy 350 when there was a simple breather on top of the valve covers....

Not closed minded negativity at all. Just pointed out the fact that resale values drop and troubleshooting future problems becomes more of an issue when band-aid repairs are done.

I've been involved in dozens of these types of "make it to shore" repairs in the '70s and '80 when out on 3 day deep sea fishing trips and 6 to 8 week cruises up and down the eastern seaboard of the NA continent (everything from big block Chevys to a 53' Bertram SportFish with Cummins VT8370s W/twin turbos). I've also redesigned/fabricated a few automotive components, the 1st gen Viper in my sig has an oversize trans input shaft, bearing and front billet front trans plate (torn down, CMMed, designed in UniGraphics, CNC machined, assembled and reinstalled by me), to handle the added power and get rid of the input bearing neutral rattle that is common on gen 1 and 2 Vipers.

I avoid these indirect repairs whenever possible. Pulling heads and sending them to a machine shop for a rebuild is no big deal.

I'm a manufacturing engineer for the aerospace industry and had therefore well aware of the millions of $s and hours that go into designing and testing systems.

I think TiAgX5 is a tree hugger that hates to see anybody mess with the emissions stuff on a vehicle. Or, maybe he works for the EPA....and he's about start issuing fines to everybody on the forum that's altered their vehicles. We're all screwed! We've have big brother after us now.

What happened to the days of the ole Chevy 350 when there was a simple breather on top of the valve covers....

:rofl: I've been called many things but NEVER this.

The Viper is running 700 hp with Henessey big tube headers, straight pipes and Moroso race mufflers, no cats.

:bustingupBeen called many things but never this.

The Viper is running 700hp with big tube Henessey headers and Moroso spiral flow race mufflers, no cats. Even passed Fla emmission inspection that way because the inspector can't visually verify the cats on a Viper, OE location is inside the rocker panels.

Guys, tiag had been around for a while and his comments have helped a number of members...

i re-read the thread, and while indeed do find his comment is a bit harsh to Able truck, i did not find a malicious intent warranting thrashing him... i perfectly understand what Able truck is trying to do, come up with a home brewed remedy to a problem that should have been addressed on corporate level of the BMW AG - a problem of the global level can't be successfully resolved on one local level...
I am very interested in the Able truck's solution, as i have the N62 that is directly affected by this whole issue... once i totally understand what he had done, i might consider implementing it, to extend the usable life of the truck while in my possession..

i understand the point that Tiag is making as well - and I must agree with him... when i walk up to a car on sales lot that has, say an aftermarket radio or nav or some ridicuolous brake job, i just walk away from that car... if the car has a DINAN stuff or HARTGE or other known name on it, i am ok with the car... why? because not every aftermarket solution is created equal - there are some items that are engineered by skilled team of engineers and some items that are slapped into the car for the heck of it...

what tiag is saying, that while that solution might work to extend the life of otherwise doomed situation, that solution is not a remedy...

just lets be nice to each other...

and why don't we all meet at the bimmerfest this coming saturday??? have a beer and laugh it off!!!:thumbup:


oh... and speaking of Big Brother... if anyone here is part of it - that would me...:nanana: and I am myself scared of the abilities of the government, even though i amworking to implement it into real life... :D

You're going to be a tree hugger if you keep pokin' the bear. Couldn't be a better time to eat some humble pie. Suggestion--say--I was outa my hed. I was a sittin' ona fir ant hill whenst I rote it.

@TiAgX5

You called the guy out by looking his business up online, and telling him that his repair "flys in the face" of his shops mission statement. That's the part that makes you sound like an asshole.

Deep down....I bet you'd like to work for the EPA...admit it.:rofl:

- The problem I have had with other forums is the exact reaction (post) of TiAgX5. I thought these forums were meant to discuss common problems - give & take - to come up with solutions. One forum was a advertising bonanza for a poster willing to do valve stem seals at home for a discount. As soon as I stepped in, even my dead mother was attacked.
- I did a R&D install for a energy/aerospace/transportation power solutions corporation for an alternative power supply to the conventional battery - I appeared in their sales video (which can be found on u-tube) - the engineers asked for my input but when it wasn't what they wanted to hear, they asked me to sign a non-disclosure (I refused), they wrote me a check and asked for their prototype back. It doesn't work as advertised but they're selling it anyway. I don't think he's a tree hugger - he's just got an attitude - some call it character - no harm - but thanks for all the positive feedback from this forum.

:hijack:

we always need a dessent - without one, any human gathering becomes too much in compliance with prevailing doctrine, which leads to degradation of the society...


the following setup works

http://www.yukonalaska.com/outhouse/cone4.jpg


but i still would rather prefer something like this

http://www.timticks.com/wp-content/u...o-blackjpg.jpg

OK, time to respond pussnut. With a little knowledge you MIGHT be dangerous.

You've been here for only a few weeks (Apr '13 join date), before making comments like "a'hole" and "you don't contribute ANYTHING to the site", spend some time here to grow some hair on your ball.

I've been maintaining and updating the "GOOD INDY SHOPS NATIONWIDE" thread on XOutpost for quite some time now. In keeping the info contained therein relevent/useful I have read/reviewed hundreds of indy shop descriptions and mission statements on the internet. FYI, the query into "A B Able Truck" came about when his first post was a copy/paste of the requirements of fuel additives/octane boosters on older engines, not this thread at all.

I have NO wishes to work for the EPA, those who can't do work for the government and teach. My money is on your a teacher, seeing as you seem to dumb to get a "gubment" job.

That's deep --- Is there a toilet in that second picture?

What does "pussnut" mean?

That's not my mission statement (never wrote one)!

It means a testicle full of puss.

How is it that you had nothing to do with the mission statement yet you yourself stated the phone number from that website has "not been used in some time"??? You must be working out of your home garage seeing there is another A B Able Truck repair shop in San Diego CA.

I could not care less how you choose to hobble together the repairs of your X to keep it running, just don't bash those who don't conform to your point of view.

I've seen numerous vehicles with temporary/bypass repairs in shopping the used car market, and I am always amazed how the owners refuse to accept the fact that their vehicle has a reduced value. Their mentality is it's custom or better then designed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiAgX5
FYI, the query into "A B Able Truck" came about when his first post was a copy/paste of the requirements of fuel additives/octane boosters on older engines, not this thread at all.

That copy and past was done because it was very detailed and it very much relates to newer engines. How many years has BMW (and others) been dealing with CCV (PCV) and carbon issues? How many people have had valve stem seals replaced unnecessarily? Yes, Bmw may at one time had valve guide issues - do you really think they'd tarnish their reputation by continually using inferior valve stem seal (if ever)? I've attached 2 SIB's (couple years old) related to my cut & paste (which all were a partnership effort with Chevron).

SI B13 05 06 9/06
SI B13 01 07 8/10 (These are just what I have on hand)

How is it that you had nothing to do with the mission statement yet you yourself stated the phone number from that website has "not been used in some time"???

I don't know - this is the internet. If I were you I'd compare several mission statements from that website and see if the wording is similar. The only advertising I've ever done was Yellow Page ads. (Last ad was about 4 years ago when people might have used a phone book) I've had a client base from the day I started A B Able Truck - people followed me from shops I previously worked for.

Seems odd that there is an A B Able Truck repair shop working out of your area, and the fact that I'm overseeing the Indy shop thread here, I would in NO doubt be doing the members on XOutpost a disservice NOT pointing this fact out! AGGREED????

Yes, in the short time ive been a member, I've contributed 2 links to a possible solution for this problem that so many of us are having. Several others have also provided valuable feedback, but in this particular thread you have contributed nothing except negative feed back...and the fact that these mods could hurt you resale value. I've never said "you don't contribute anything to this site". This thread was only about the oil burning issue, til you chimed in about Able Truck.

pussnut...really?

Actually, the Jacuzzi tubs in the master baths of my homes in both Spring Hill FL AND Coppell TX are MUCH larger then that one! 4 person tubs in the master baths and 8 person Sundance Spas in the pool areas behind the homes. The Aerospace industry pays good for knowledgable root cause/corrective action Manufacturing Engineers. The fact that my GF is a Corporate Attorney for a Fortune 200 Corp helps too.

Alaman left, grand right and left, swing your partner round and round, dosee dough---mines bigger than yours---ready now? Let' all do the dick dance!!!!

I don't know what to tell you - That is my address - I poked around the site - They don't say these are Mission Statements but they all sound pretty generic - I'll take it - It's free and I'm cheap - But at least they could have included my fax number for that time - If you are an engineer, you're gullible engineer.

Whatever. I didn't make the website I posted the link to.

I like you ;)

You're an engineer - I don't expect an apology - You probably don't know how.

??? Nothing you have contributed here has even warranted a response you goat roper. Why are you still here?

Are you related to someone from another forum?
Did I piss you off a week or so ago?
Is this your only screen name?
Was it you who said you slept with my mother?

I am overwelmed by the concept that those who are doing repairs that are not correcting root cause issues are unable to accept the fact that there are those of us who choose to repair their vehicles in a manner that corrects root cause problems. There is no "design flaw" in the crankcase vapor recovery system of the N62 powered BMWs. The DOT and EPA oversite of vehicles sold in the NA market clearly states if there was a design error the manufacturer has to recall ALL said powered vehicles and correct the issue to maintain emission compliance.

Your X is FUCKED UP and you don't want to drop the dime to fix it in a proper manner, that's what this thread is all about, don't bash those who call a spade a spade!

Are you new to this whole internet thing??? That was directed toward bcredliner, not you.:rolleyes:

FWIW, I maintain a manner of decorum online and therefore never go the "your mama" route.

girls, girls... stop this nonsense!!!

we are all grown men (and women too, a few of them are on the board), regardless if some are 18 or others are 88 - and we should act accordingly, as grown ups and not like little kids in a playground. there are many other things in this life to worry about - some peopple like to put a black electrical tape over a "check engine" light - it is their right... they want to tell everyone about it - fine... some will follow... some - will not follow... this is not a matter of which side of the egg needs to be cracked first - the egg is cracked, and that is it.

Do i really need to call principal on this??? well... on the other hand.. I think i will motion the moderators to CLOSE this thread, as it has gone way off on a side tangent...

Hahaha, Well put!

Das dat meen ya'll don wat ta see a pickchur of my pooper shed?

Post it!

Onlee picktur I got is on I tuuk wit my Codac insta sumthin las wek. I kin mosee on or to
kaapel anda sho u win it bak frum the 5 an dim.

Bileee bob 7

Ok, I stand corrected, you have been a major contributor to this thread!:bustingup

Here's mine.

yas got usens beet. Cant sea thru dat won.

Billy bob 6

Here it is.

gittin closr. septin we ain't got no dor eter.

Billie bob 5

Oh damn...talk about taking a thread to the shidder

I'd sa dats betr den wer it wer bfor

billie bob 7
billie bob 6
billie bob 5

Couple of questions:

If the Scotchbrite pad effectively cleans the oil mist out of the crankcase vapours, preventing them from going into the intake manifold, why would it still be a good idea to use Seafoam to chemically scrub the combustion chambers? What would it add? Or is the Seafoam being used in the intake tract, which wouldn't seem to be necessary if the crankcase ventilation system was functioning (however the oil separation is accomplished).

There seems to be a conflation of the issue of valve stem seals leaking (likely related to valve guide wear, but that is just a guess) and crankcase ventilation issues (CCV, catch can, or home made system, whatever)? Posters seem to see the latter as a cure for the former. If there is excessive blowby, there will be lots of oil for the crankcase ventilation system to have to deal with. But I am trying to separate symptoms from root cause here. Do posters see these two issues of valve stem seals and CCV systems as related, other than the fact that they can both happen to a vehicle, independently?

And a comment: If that description of fuel additives actually did apply to modern engines, as claimed, then it wouldn't include a section on carburetors. Just sayin.

PS: Yes, the use of terms like root cause analysis does give away an engineering and mechanic background. In my case, automotive product development and at a different time, dealer service. No apology here for being an engineer. Doesn't seem to go over too well with some. :D

I think it's combination of both. In my case, I have filtered the lines going to the intake, but that hasn't completely fixed it. I still have some smoke, but nothing like before. At this point I'm assuming ( u know what they say about that) that the valves have carbon build up and aren't seating properly.

I would put my money on it is a combination of both and that some, because of some much information on leaking valve stem seals, go there before they need to do so. As far as Sea Foam I wouldn't use it for anything, might try it on a clogged drain, or if it was drinkable, but other than that, IMO it is a great formula for disaster.

:thumbup: keep up the good work billie bob , it`s highly entertaining .

FWIW, If the valve stem seals are shot a crankcase vent catch can will do nothing toward resolving an oil burn issue.

Sorry I missed all the fun - went to a wedding.
- I would repost my originals but I don't want to take up room on the forum. I think we're already on page 9.
- You have opened my mind to thinking "root cause" and how would I state my case to a panel of engineers, so I'll use my situation to re-evaluate and try to timeline.
- The carbon on the pistons tops (photos taken) I believe was a result of my not taking preventative measures for: (1) fuels - as indicated in BMW TSBs - SI B13 05 06 & SI B13 05 06 (2) The CCV (PCV) system causing oil vapors introduced to the intake air - This issue is well documented on all forums & oil vapor coating the inside of the intake manifold was said to be normal by both BMW & independent repair facilities (which I didn't agree with). It was also said to be normal that these vehicles use oil at a rate of approximately 1 qt. per 1000 miles (again I didn't agree). What is unknown is what effect this carbon may have had on the piston rings.

The Smog Inspection had clues - The HCs were more then double - The visual tail pipe smoke - And the fact that I did not have a check engine light on - In addition, I was producing alot of nice clean water out the tail pipe. Why the plugs did not show signs of carbon but the combustion chamber was loaded with it - I do not know.

My bandaid (as you call it) is no more then what was utilized on the breathers of the old Chevy systems. As you recall, there was a piece of a pad resting in a plastic holder fastened within the air cleaner to filter crankcase gases being recirculated. That plastic holder was actually cupped to hold any oil caught so it may gravity feed back to the valve cover. As long as I have the correct vacuum when my dipstick is pulled - what is the harm?

Why would Corvette spend time and money re-engineering their PCV system if there wasn't a problem?

I also spoke with several professionals at the machine shops who locally perform the cylinder head repairs for our BMW dealers and BMW repair independents. They even had N62 heads on hand. They indicated the older N62s were most often needing guides - If the guides are good (on any head) it still would take a hell of a lot to get a noticeable amount of oil to burn within a combustion chamber. They noted that although it was not a good idea, remember when the old Chevy's used an o-ring as a stem seal?

In my situation - My car quit smoking, passed smog, the HCs moved below Max. allowable, there is ample vacuum when the dipstick is pulled and I don't use excessive oil. And it has never run better.

As for engineers - I have friends, customers and a relative that designs drone plane parts. I should not have profiled the profession as negative - sorry.

I also have water dripping from the tail pipe. What's your explanation for this?

And in your opinion, is it necessary to do the seafoam treatment as you described, or could one get the same results with fuel treatment designed for cleaning carbon from the combustion chamber? I realize it might take several fill ups with several bottles of treatment. But over time could you get the same results?

It's all good.

The water from the exhaust is normal on any vehicle with cats. Its caused by the oxidation of of hydrocarbons into carbon dioxide and water.

Good question. In my opinion (and I don't work for Chev or BMW) all manufacturers are being driven to reduce emissions, as measured over an extended vehicle life (ie, not just at time of sale). This is a good thing. But then, I don't consider the phrase tree-hugger an insult. I think we should leave a better world for our children, and god knows we are screwing it up fast enough.

BMW accomplished this goal with respect to the PCV, and achieved low emissions vehicle ratings, for these engines. At least one of their solutions used a cyclone separator so as to reduce the amount of oil being returned to the intake tract. It worked fine, in general, as long as the vehicle was driven as the BMW engineers anticipated. That meant limited number of short trips, getting the engine hot enough to burn off the condensation every time, etc,. If owners didn't use their vehicles that way, they tended to get plugged CCV systems, and ensuing problems. You can call it a design problem, or a disconnect between the requirements document and customer's expectations, or whatever.

With Chevrolet, I imagine it is exactly the same. They want to reduce the amount of oil going into the intake tract, thus lowering lifecycle emissions. They likely have additional challenges relating to a very high performance engine, with a non-typical duty cycle (lots of them will get low mileage, occasional use, etc). So, they will continue to try new solutions. Good for them.

Sure, we could go back to a simple PCV, and roll back all of our emissions legislation. Why stop there? We could get rid of fuel injection and go back to carburetors. We could bring back distributor caps, rotors, points, and condensors. We could go back to recurving distributors and replacing vacuum advances. We could even get rid of automatic chokes, because ones with cables worked better than the first generation of automatic chokes. So why not throw away PCVs, install a road draft tube, and just spray the oily fumes on the road? Because it is a significant step backwards. Yes, vehicles are more complicated. They are harder to repair. But they are also doing much more than we asked vehicles to do years ago. It is part of the evolution of the automobile. While we marvel at 100 hp per litre, in a reliable engine that is affordable, relatively economical, doesn't require any significant routine maintenance compared to engines of old, etc, we shouldn't be surprised that there are still areas to improve. On this forum, there is so little discussion of annual maintenance and repairs, that if we didn't have the wide tires, tinted windows, and upgraded stereo threads, there would be little to talk about.

Just my $0.02

Agreed, but I would add to this. When the vehicle is warm, it comes out as steam (vapour). When the vehicle is cold, used primarily for short trips, etc, that steam condenses inside the exhaust system, into liquid. Then, when you start it up the next time, it drips out the back. Entirely normal, but it illustrates why vehicles work better when they regularly get good and hot (which gets rid of the liquid), because that condensation that you see out the exhaust (the drips) is the same inside the engine, where it emulsifies with oil and forms a white paste (which is famous for clogging up CCV systems).

Please read my original problem post. I'm not talking the little condensation you would normally see. I'm saying almost enough for a cup of coffee in a 1 hr. period. I don't understand the cold engine, HCs, COs, CO2s, the effects of fuel soaked carbon build up, etc. etc. But remember I live in San Diego - It's like summer year round. Now that my car is "fixed" - I see very little condensation.

The first thing I will do when I run across this problem again in any vehicle:
- Pull spark plugs & look at piston carbon
- If excessive carbon - I'd spray/soak with Sea Foam (because I'm happy with my Sea Foam experience - but use whatever you want - It's your engine)
- I will probably use the Chevron product in my fuel tank from now on with all my vehicles.
- I would spray it thru the intake to clean intake ports/valves

If you're not experiencing any problems - Just use the fuel tank treatment as the BMW SIB indicates and see what happens.

I found an interesting notation while reading the BMW N63 Engine - Technical Training Workbook (Page 20)

Note: If the exhaust system produces blue smoke, it is necessary to check whether the engine is also drawing oil into the combustion chamber through the crankcase breather, which suggest that there is a fault in the area of the crankcase breather. A clear sign of a problem is an oiled up clean-air pipe.

Have you done a compression/leakdown test to see if bad rings are allowing blowby into the crankcase and overwelming the c'case vapor recovery system? The piston deposit pics would confirm bad rings if the valve stem seals are OK. All it takes is a prior owner to ignore oil change intervals or incorrect installation of the air intake assembly and/or emmision air pump tubing (the pump draws from the air filter box post filter, mis-installed, the post filter side of the airbox can pull unfiltered air into the intake and hence cylinders. Saw a used '03 4.6is for sale at a Florida BMW dealer with the air pump intake tube disconnected from the airbox, walked away from the X just because of that item). A slow, constant dust injestion will make a lapping compound when it mixes with the oil on the rings. An under-oiled K&N type filter will also cause the dust injestion.

-I don't have a secondary air pump.
-Again - My car works great now.
-The notation from the BMW Technical Training Manual suggests that the CCV system has been the culprit all along.

Thought that was on all N62s ever produced for NA market?

I don't know - but I have a N62TU if that makes a difference.

The TU has the air pump, or had it before someone removed it at some point in the vehicles life. You may want to verify the intake port for the pump was properly blocked off seeing that the engine will suck unfiltered air thru it.

There is no secondary air pump on my vehicle (and never was). I bought the car from the original owner (a friend) and it was always dealer maintained until my purchase. Even my Bentley Manual indicates No Pump after 2006.
N62TU
(4.8L 360hp)

That's odd. SI 61 47 01 (000) in the BMW workshop manuals shows the N62TU in the 650 as having it........

BMW Workshop Manuals - 6 Series E64 650i (N62TU) CONVER Workshop Manual -

I don't know - but at the page base of your link it says "Issue status 12/2007"

The N62TU engine application thru the BMW line did not revise the engine or sub-systems, hence the TU after the N62 designation. If the N62 TU in the later 650 E65 carried a air pump, the inital debut of the N62 TU had one.

The Bentley manual does not redefine MANY items/systems that were carried over from the M62 TU engine. If you search for some threads on here, you will see info from numerous N62 TU owners who have used Bentley.

You stated on the first page of this thread you have an '06 550i with an N62TU engine? Sure it's not the N62N powerplant? When E60 550i is input in RealOEM, N62N autofills the engine type.

I don't know what to tell you. My receipts from BMW indicate the N62TU - My Bentley and owners manual only indicate N62 & N62TU options. I don't recall any literature showing a N62N. When I bought the car and when I take it in for service and when people see it - they say they have not seen a 550I with the OEM options mine has. Maybe it was a special order - I don't know.

Must be very interesting, because the exact same message has been posted on xoutpost, bimmerforums, xbimmers, f10.m5post, 5series.net, bimmerfest, e90post, e60.5post, ...(I gave up at this point).

What I don't understand is why this is represented as being a BMW issue, let alone a smoking gun. Wouldn't it be true of any crankcase breather, which could draw in oil to the combustion chamber? On any vehicle, or for that matter, a lawnmower? A similar (but not exactly the same) article is posted on an MGB forum. That was put up in 2008, and refers to 1964 through EOP for the MGB. I don't think BMW had anything to do with designing that one....

My reply to your other post is the reason I've wasted so much time spreading the word on oil consumption / valve stem issues. Not so much on this forum, but others need options with proof to back it up. This has been a long standing issue with BMW's from what I've read - They should make a sticky with proper diagnostic procedures to help people with this issue and put it to rest.

I had never seen the N62 N engine designation until coming across it on the RealOEM site yesterday. This has me perplexed.

my engine says N62/S



Vehicle information

VIN 5UXFA93596LE83922
Type code FA93
Type X5 4.8IS (USA)
E series E53 ()
Series X
Type GEFZG
Steering LL
Doors 5
Engine N62/S
Displacement 4.80
Power 265
Drive ALLR
Transmission AUT
Colour BLACK SAPPHIRE METALLIC (475)
Upholstery EXCLUSIVLEDER WALKNAPPA/SCHWARZ (V9SW)
Prod.date 2005-10-17

Engine Identification
BMW engines are identified by a combined alpha-numeric code. Like the internal model designation it is a code used by the Engineering and Technical development teams dur- ing the design stages of the engine:
• M-forstandardproductionengines
• S-forMotorsportengines(Motorsportisaseparatedivision ofBMW)
• N-forNewGenerationengines
After the letter there are two digits that identify the engine. The table below lists engines by number of cylinders.

I was not aware of the N62 TU engine being advanced to an N suffex. I was aware of the S designation for Motorsport division tuning.

Here's a great link that breaks down all BMW models, vins., engine & trans. #'s.


http://prodcds.bmwuniversity.com/lib...20to%20BMW.pdf

Thanks

A B Able Truck,

How is your scotch bright trick holding up, any modifications or issues that have been required since the installation? I have been thinking about your trick every few weeks ( while adding oil to be best ) :(

This morning I came across this ( Fine Copper, 5-lbs reel, single reel ). it is to my understanding that copper is non-reactive with solvents / oil, and I have a concern about the scotch bright pad breaking down and turning into an abrasive...

http://prodcds.bmwuniversity.com/cou..._Intro2BMW.pdf

Loved it!

My X was using oil very heavy - about 1qt/300Km and heavy smoking.
It's 2004 4.4 with the N62. I did change all the seals AND the valve stem seals. I don't know if the valve stem seals were the cure, or all the other seals that I changed. There were oil leaks everywhere - upper timing covers, solenoids O-rings, etc. What I did certainly stopped the smoking AND oil consumption. Haven't added oil any since I did the procedure (fingers crossed).

Anyway, if you do that, I would suggest to change also that water pipe. I did that too thinking preventative maintenance - I had no coolant leaks. But when I pulled out the OE pipe, half of the circumference of the front rubber seal was already come unglued and the pipe started to corrode underneath, so it was only a matter of time. I used the AGA pipe just because they use the right rubber for the O-ring.

It's the same p/n you find on real oem. Just get the Elring Klinger ones (red Viton rubber inside). Don't get any other brand.
For the VCG gaskets, try to snatch the latest manufactured ones. Apparently BMW realized they were using the wrong rubber, and they switched to Viton for them as well. you'll be doing the job only once. The Viton VCG replacement is for all BMW models. When you order make sure of the manufacturing date (no older than last year I believe) - here is Rajae's post (the guy who did the aftermarket Vanos seals for BMW's)

BTW, my X had 158,000 Km when I changed all the seals (approx. 98 K miles)

Did you do it yourself?

Yes as Doru stated go with the Elring Klinger set. The job isn't that hard more tedious than anything! It can be a bit intimidating but you just got to dive right into it! I haven't replaced the pipe yet on mine but is on my todo list.

crwarren11 -
More then likely you will need valve stem seals if they've never been changed. When purchasing a used vehicle it may not be possible to know if the previous owner did or not. IMO oil heading thru the intake from the CCVs should be resolved first - especially if you've already replaced the valve cover gaskets and there's still intake oil. I used clear plastic tubes with a makeshift catch basin for a visual of what was happening.
Attachment 65352

You also need to measure crankcase vacuum to see if the crankcase is sealed (is the oil filler cap & o-rings on dipstick sealing???)

I also found excessive carbon buildup on my piston tops which caused an uneven burn (excessive condensation)

More info;
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/album.php?u=346089

You're also in Orange County CA & AGA is just down the road (Escondido)

How long have the clear tubes been holding up? I've been looking for a turbo drain hose solution that is clear on my turbo car.

Also wanting to do this on the X5 to curb oil consumption as well. I thought it was all leakage (need VC gaskets, UTC gaskets, etc) but the more I read about the n62 the more I think it's ending up in the combustion chambers.

8>10 months - 8,000 miles +
They hold up OK but with the oil mist & engine heat they are now light brown.
I'm replacing the waterpump, hoses, etc. - so I'm replacing my clear CCV hose just cause I've got several feet left over from the initial fabrication.

Not sure if I already posted this photo but;
I cut a piece of coat hanger about 4" and bent over the ends - used a hose clamp to secure in place of the CCV caps so I could watch the diaphragms work while testing. I also used the boot from an old spark plug wire (dist. cap side) for my vacuum gauge hose on the oil dipstick tube.

Edit - a better photo
Attachment 65353

***

Just got it smogged 2 weeks ago with my hoses in place. Passed:woohoo:

Info -

http://tsb.deccats.com/tsb-bmw_all-evap.pdf

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More info;

Puffs of white or blue smoke from your N62 4.4 V8? Misfire CEL's? Here's the definitive guide for fixing it on the cheap. : BMW

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=536317
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I would try this:
Get a new VCG & related (make sure it's Viton - Gloeckler is the brand, and then you can re-use it whenever you will need to re-service the CCV diaphragm), then take off the VCG, then clean it and take off the inner plate to access the CCV membrane. I would think that membrane is identical with the CCV membrane found in the 4.4 N62 engines.
Check this out