Transmission jolt problem ? Gear 1-2 "Is like i get hit from the rear! 03 X5 4.6 is"
 

Hi,

Yesterday ,we where low on gas about 20 miles left, and was about a mile from home,and all of sun ,at the light when we trying to leave ,i jolt happen like someone hit us in the back,i look in the mirrors and it was no one,so we stopped at gas station filed it up,and drove it little more to make sure ,no air in the system or anything ,i was thinking maybe that jolt was from gas was to low and x5 was about to die.

So anyway,next day i drove it again and i got this jolt again!,i did few tests to see exactly where this happens.

test 1.
going to a stop sign,slow down to 20 to 5 m/h then try to hit slow the gas pedal
and it did the jolt ,try it few more times and it does ,but all depends if you stop all the way or you all most stopped and then you hit the pedal to go.

test 2.
parked up hill in the street in parking ,started the x5 ,put in drive ,hit the gas ,the rpm goes up little and the tranny responds late and i get the jolt, this does not happen all the time it all depends ,how you do it.


test3.
when driving and you come to a stop light and want to go right ,you slow down with brake ,then half way you start
hit the gas pedal ,rpm is little up ,then i get that jolt again.


now from reading in this forum and other,also searched on the net,
can it be :
a-tranny software may need update? (my x5 is made 07/2003)
b-tranny oil and filter changed?
c-tranny inside seal changed? (from reading , there is a seal in the tranny that with time may crack?dont know the exact name for it)

d-or other problem?


right now i have only:
-75k miles
-no lights at dashboard panel
-no leaks
-never had this problem

called the dealer and they said 175$ for diagnostic and software update,but from reading in the forum
is there any software update for this year?
(can i read what software version i have right now with carsoft software and adapter?)
he also said ,maybe my oil level is low,but i dont have leaks and no lights at dashboard at all.

went to other bmw indi that do only bmw and had 5 of them in the shop,
and he said:

-diag+soft=185$
-soft =125$
-that gasket that i was talking about above and oil+filter changed = 375$

also he said from what i told him,that the gasket maybe the problem and not doing a software update,
i ask him if he could tell me if there is one for this year ,and of course he has to charge me to do that 125$,
but also he mansion that if i do a software update the tranny will change speedy faster and will load the tranny to fast ,and will shorten the life of the tranny...hmm.

he also added when you come to the stop light and you go and feel that jolt,that is normal ,but not my jold,the normal one is a smaller jolt.


so at this point dont know where to start!

any advice? on this matter?

thank you very much for taking the time to read this!


regards,
m.

i can't say anything about the juicy parts, like the seals, or the oil or whatever inside the tranny...

but when you were moving from a dead stop in test 2, the RPMs went up and the car wasn't moving much, that sounds like a mismatch in internal conversation - there are bunch of sensors that measure the wheel speed, the tranny speed, the engine speed and then, they tell the ECU/DME/EGS what gear to select...

any other symptoms? have you had your speedometer needle die on you? have seen "trifeca" lights going off on the dash, the brake, the DSC lights?

what kind of software do you have? you have a cable already, right?

hi, Terminatorx5,

regarding the juicy parts inside,i was looking here at this tread :
http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...lipping-2.html
post 13,regarding that seal.


***other symptoms? have you had your speedometer needle die on you? have seen "trifeca" lights going off on the dash, the brake, the DSC lights?***
>>>none of those.

software was carsoft 6.5 , with the interface
http://i41.tinypic.com/2q0rp7m.jpg
i have all cables,as i did reset some airbag on my last x5,some time ago.

thanks

i am not so sure about the carsoft, but it seems that you have the cables needed for the diagnostic software... you may wish to consider getting yourself an INPA, along with the GT1 - i posted a link couple of days ago to ebay listing with a download for $25... with INPA, you should be able to see the set and actual values of many parameters inside the car, and from there you might ba able to may a determination if you need anything or not...

I had that one symptom, when the engine RPMs went up but the tranny did not engage the right gear and then the car jolted, like rocket going to the moon... i had a bad coil... i am not saying you have a bad coil, i am saying that a totally unrelated (seemingly) problem creates strange symptoms...

look into that INPA thing, it comes with many other things included...

Your symptoms are consistent with axial bearing failure, and resulting inability to maintain pressure as a result of the play. If this is the case, you will find it has occurred to quite a few members of this forum, as well as other brands using this trans.

Hi, TerminatorX5,

I have look to some of your posts but did not find that ebay listing,that you talking about!,can you point me to it? really appreciate!

I was looking on ebay ,to see what they have ,i found this: here,but not sure if it comes with that inpa software, also found this also: here,but also it say that comes with the software driver,but how about the windows software for diagnostic?,confuse little there...

Anyway,i did some app. with the local bmw dealer/service ,and they will do a diagnostic & software update for $175, hopefully will tell if there is a problem ,somewhere .

I try few other indi bmw specialized shops ,and they want $185 for the 2 things to get done,and other place witch is a bmw dealer ,niello bmw big dealer too,they said $165 for diag and 250$ for software , i was like what?

What a big price between the 2 dealers ...wow

Tranny oil & filter 435.95$ ,a lot...

Now ,will see what the test will say tomorrow when will take the x5 in.


Thank you,

Hi, Civdiv99,

Yes it could be a lot of things wrong,will see after tomorrow ,have app. with the bmw service dealer,hopefully will find out some more info about.

Thanks

BMW Dis Inpa NCS Expert and Winkfp Diagnostic Software for Coding Programming | eBay

this one is not a download, it is actual disk...

ok,so that is the software disk,and it should work with one of the ebay cables from above links?

thank you,

if you are going to get a cable, then get the software and the cable from a same listing... i thought, you already have a cable...

i have whatever you see in that picture,
serial m to f.
obd2 i think is f to f (female)
and that f to 20 pin.

so i have to get the obd2 to usb and the soft, i guess one of the 2 ebay links should do it as long it comes with that inpa software to have it installed on my laptop .

thanks,

find a guy from romania, he is on the ebay - he must have supplied all the xoutpost members with the package, and it is proven to work... i forgot his handle on ebay, but he is the one with correct stuff...

i knew someone from romania in this forum, fmugur...anyway will have a look.

(i'm ro also :D)

thank you.

i figured you are from romania, based on your name ending with "-anci"... :)

good luck

To cure the "tranny jolt" you need to replace the radiator. Or if you can somehow clean out the bottom part of the radiator (inside).
This is one reason why you may want to flush the coolant every 2 years.

Hello Doru,

hmm,i did not see anyone in the forum talking about this to fix the tranny jolt!,did anyone had this problem and it fix it by doing a coolant flash?

i see the big radiator and at the bottom a small one ,looks that one comes from the tranny the hoses...

you had the same problem? i still don't get it why the coolant radiator ?

thanks

anyway, today i got the bmw back from the diagnostic and they said:

they found code: 0031 EGS: Symptom, gear monitoring (fault)

Dont know exactly whats up,but alraidy said that i need a new tranny ,for only

:$8939 ! o boy ... is like i grow money in my garden :doh:,

this are the screens from the bmw dealer service diagnostic:

http://i42.tinypic.com/2n099it.png

http://i43.tinypic.com/2po738z.png

http://i41.tinypic.com/2h34u9e.png

http://i40.tinypic.com/23igcut.png


Regarding the tranny software update,they said that there is not one for this year!.



so what should i do next?,maybe a tranny oil and filter change?

anyone here about lucas tranny oil ?


thank you,

Fix the rear wheel sensor first and go from there. Since the wheel is not providing a signal to the DSC and ABS module that can also be the cause of the egs gear monitoring. The brief power loss to the DSC could have also trigger the trans fail safe. A filter and fluid change might not be bad since it was noted that the fluid was burnt. Fluid only get burnt if the trans is slipping. I used Lucas trans additive in my E34 and Audi A6 Avant. The BMW E34 was a GM trans and the Audi A6 trans was a ZF.

rear right wheel speed sensor... hmmm... why there is no signal? did the dealer address that sensor?

if i remember correctly, right front wheel speed had something to do with gearbox... rear right? don't remember...

the guy at the bmw dealer said that all those other errors where old and not active, only the :

"code: 0031 EGS: Symptom, gear monitoring (fault)" was active !

the story for that " right wheel speed sensor" was this:

when i purchased the x5 ,the guy had a tire explosion in the right rear,and ripped the sensor off ,abs and brake... so i fixed that my self after i purchased it, he did put new tires in the back ,but never got the chance to install those 2 broken sensors ,so he said ,for me to install them and he will drop 500$ from the price of the x5 ,so i was happy with that., so i guess the codes never cleared from that time.

Left rear sensor is the speedometer sensor as well so when that sensor go bad you get the trifecta of lights. Ask me how I know.

you have EGS signal line disturbed, wheel speed sensor, and the gear monitoring...

did you replace both, the brake pad sensor and the speed sensor? how is the status on your software/cable? with INPA you can get plain english (kind of english, mixed with german!!) wording...

your issue could be mechanical and/or electronic in nature...

does your cruise control work?

"brake pad sensor and the speed sensor" yes, i did replace both with new,i remember when those where ripped off ,i had Christmas lights at dash, but all when away after i did the install on both of those 2 sensors.

regarding the INPA , i am still looking what to get , i was going to get this one here,
but i dont think it comes with the inpa software!?,also must work under windows 7 64bit.

maybe a combo was better to buy cable and software from the same seller,and to be from usa,for faster shipping.

also this guy here selling :
"BMW DIS v5.7 + INPA 5.0.2 + Ediabas v6.47 + SSS v32 + Carsoft + NCS Expert/Dummy"
25$, link

thanks,

Fmugur chased this problem for a long time. He monitored the temps and other variables with GT1 and INPA. One day he found out that the transmission temp is going up when you slow down/coast, which should not - it should decrease. The heat exchanger of the tranny has a double t-stat if you will. So when it's hot, it opens up the lower part of the radiator to cool the ATF in the heat exchanger (Item #15 in this diagram). But if the lower part of the radiator is gunked up, there is no flow, and subsequently the tranny gets only hotter. At this moment, the tranny will "rev up" (for lack of better explanation/terms) and you feel the "jolt".
If you have this problem, you cannot clean the radiator, no matter how many times you flush it. This is why you want to flush the coolant every 2 years.
Maybe my explanation is lacking, but if I were you, I would give Fmugur a PM to ask him about this. He knows in detail the issue. The radiator is less $$ than what the dealer quoted you. And if you ask my friend, he will also tell you that this is the biggest "known" secret of the cooling system - a very specialized indy told him that, and the indy was surprised that Fmugur actually found the real cure/issue of the tranny "jolt". No bull.

Yeah, he applied my transmission thermostat mod as well as the cooling system mod, I believe.

Yes, but once the rad was changed, the mod wasn't necessary anymore.

I was having the same problem with my E53 and the issue was worse when the transmission was cold. A transmission fluid, filter and software upgrade fixed it!

might want to try the guibo joint- or in english, the 'flex disk' between the tranny and the driveshaft

I had something similar, it ended up being a leaking or clogged Oil Seperator that was messing things up. Oil Seperators need replacement around 100k.

I still have the civdiv's mod in though but yes, the transmission temp dropped after changing the radiator. The high transmission temp was causing the hard downshift from 2-1 and other funny behaviour. The bottom of the radiator is feeding the heat exchanger with cold coolant. If that part is clogged then no cooling through the heat exchanger which results in high transmission temperature.

So after changing the big coolant radiator , you had no more 2-1 jolt? like when rpm was little up and tried to press gas? jolt was gone?

Now,when changing the radiator ,will i lose some of the tranny fluid?


Thank you,

Suggest you get a confirmation on the condition of the transmission fluid. The dealer reported, in a scan in a post above, that the fluid is burnt. If you confirm that, by an independnt check of the fluid, you will know that the transmission has been overheated, the fluid is toast, and if you have been running in that condition it is likely that the transmission internals are damaged as well. Clutch plates are the most likely to be heat damaged. Overheated clutch plates and fluid do not have the same friction characteristics as new, so the transmission slips then engages with a bang, just like you are experiencing. Software and such will not fix that problem. If the fluid is burnt, then you can try changing it, as well as fixing the root cause that caused it to overheat (sounds like the coolant radiator, above), but there aren't magic fixes that you can do with software that repair mechanical damage.

The jolt is common if you do 'rolling stops'. The trans normally takes off in 2nd gear. When you do a rolling stop and then press down on the throttle the trans downshifts to 1st rather abruptly.

My trans was replaced under CPO for this exact thing. Man, I hope it wasn't just a radiator issue...

If it were me, I'd do what JCL recommends above. The California Transmission Company (google it), has all the stuff you need for doing a trans fluid or fluid/filter change. They have quite a selection of parts too, if you get adventuresome and want to fix things inside the transmission.

Buy a new fill plug when you get your fluid/filter. Mine was not in the best shape on the rebuilt tranny they put in so having a spare is always handy.

Hi, JCL,

yes,they said about the oil to be burned , and what i wanted to do before i go deeper within the tranny, to change:
1. the big coolant radiator
2. do a tranny fluid change and filter

to see if this will help with my problem.

called around for a new radiator at napa,riebies,kragen auto parts and they are from 225$ and up,ebay at 95$.

now as far for tranny oil and filter kragen has it at 29.99$ for the kit : filter & gasket

oil at kragen :
Pentosin - Automatic Transmission Fluid
Part Number: ATF1-1L link here
15$ /qt
dont know how many qt i need and if this is ok oil for the x5,but is made in germany.

also coolant ,kragen has this:

Pentosin - Coolant/Antifreeze (blue color)
Part Number: PF-NF-1.5L link here

now,maybe is better to get the coolant from the dealer? i think was the blue color also and it was 24$ /gal.

i have to get all this parts ,change them and see if any difference with the jolt problem.

thank you,

yes,i may have to do a tranny oil and filter changed first ,then radiator after.

thanks for the advice!.

Since you will lose some ATF when you change the radiator it is better to do the radiator first, drain the ATF and replace the filter and then refill the trans. I would stick with factory oem filter in this case.

oem filter? , riebes auto parts told me that meets the oem stadards, dont know
how much is at the dealer,or maybe get a oem cheaper from online somewhere,also looking into the tranny oil where to get it and how much to get,
dont want to put some brand that may hurt the tranny,the kragen brand pentosin is made for german cars and made in germany,anyway ,i guess you right , radiator must be first as i dont want to add tranny oil later again...

thank you,

There are no published standards for the OE filter. What your supplier means is that it is the same physical size. It may be the same in other details, but who knows? Since you already have a transmission problem, why introduce additional variables? Buy it from the dealer, or here (they also sell the correct ZF fluid).

The CTSC - ZF Parts

Nothing wrong with Pentosin as a supplier, but that fluid you link is a universal fluid, designed for both GM and ZF transmissions. I wouldn't use it. Get the proper ZF Lifeguard fluid.

@JCL, thank you for replying!,

I did some reading in the forum and notice that Pentosin not worth to take that chance! ( also know that i have a green label,but i have to see what it say on it)

,are there any other brands that can be used ,that i can buy at autozone,napa,pepboys,reibies or just better to get the zf from online,just did not want to wait,but if no other that i may have to order online and wait.

also from my reading in the forum i will need about 6 liters ?


One other question that i was searching and did not find in the forum:

>Is there any modification to the pan that you can add the tranny oil from under the hood? , i know they are for some cars and curios if one is done for this model?! it will be
much easier to work on to changing the fluid in the future.


thanks you,

I would expect that you need closer to 8 litres than 6, but I haven't worked on that specific model.

There is no remote fill modification.

ok,thank you.

Get 8, especially since you are replacing the radiator too.

The link JCL gave in a previous post is where I got my lifeguard6 fluid. The fluid you need is determined by the transmission part number, iirc and the CTSC has all the data on their site to help you chose the correct fluid.

Good luck! :thumbup:

I just look on the green sticker from the tranny,
and got this numbers:

BMW-NR 7-512-587
ZF Getriebe gmbh

Serial Q519365
1058-000034
5HP-24

well i never got the chance to do anything else yet to the x5,and wife was still driving the x5,and this morning , got the call that ,the jolt started doing more times than before,and for the first time a light come at dashboard:
"transmission failed safe program"
so now with that is it safe to drive it back home? ,when driving and higher speed everything works,i guess at low speed does that, i need to get the x5 back home and just to make sure is safe to drive now with that light there.

thanks,

tranny failsafe puts transmission into a 3rd gear, allowing you to drive the car for limited distance and limited speed - eventually this condition needs to be fixed... you got the codes from the car yet?

No, did not get codes yet!

I have to go in little to exchange cars (wife's work)

and then to drive the x5 back home.

Can the codes be pulled with a obd2 scanner?

I know sometime ,german cars dont like some of the scanners, but i did pull codes before
from the x5 with the scanner i have (this one)

Thanks,

this is an OBD scanner that is designed to pull emission codes and a few others on top. since the powertrain systems in bimmers are highly computerized, you need bmw specific reader that will read the tranny module, the ABS module and the other modules as the main error sending the car into tranny failsafe mode could be anything, from ambient temperature sensor, to MAF, to defective coil or a spark plug to malfunctioning speed sensor to broken ABS module to crankshaft speed sensor... the list is going on and on... even a low tire pressure can throw tranny into failsafe... you need to know the codes or you need a lot of money to throw parts into the car in hopes that one of the parts will get things fixed...
we already covered the INPA and DIS software that are BMW specific - have you gotten any of those yet?

as you are lingering with the resolution to the issue, you are standing a risk that the issue will cascade and you will have more than just one problem on your hands...

Thank you for replying ,

I will have the x5 home ,and i have to fix it before will drive it again.

Did not get any of the INPA and DIS software yet, as i was struggling what to get!

Found this software:

BMW DIS v5.7 + INPA 5.0.2 + Ediabas v6.47 + SSS v32 + Carsoft + NCS Expert/Dummy
from here.,

or this soft:
BMW DIS INPA NCS Expert And Winkfp DIAGNOSTIC SOFTWARE For Coding/programming.
link here,

and the cable i may get this here:
INPA K+CAN K+DCAN Car Diagnostic tool Cable USB Interface Adaper for BMW US
link here.,

Just dont know witch software is better,from the 2 and if that cable will work in win 7 64bit.(sent the seller email and asked)

As i have to get this today,to get my fixing going...

"as you are lingering with the resolution to the issue, you are standing a risk that the issue will cascade and you will have more than just one problem on your hands..." you right , i just dont need other problems right now.

Hopefully,all goes okay to get the x5 back home and go from there.

Thank you,

You will NOT loose any ATF when you change the radiator. You could loose some ATF if you change the heat exchanger, but usually the heat exchanger has big passages, and is not mandate to change.
To change the ATF is not difficult. The key is to clean thoroughly the sealing edges of the pan and tranny before replacing the gasket, observe the filling procedure (correct temperature for topping up with engine running), and tighten the screws in the correct sequence (one after another, after they were hand tight) at the correct torque spec.

This is the source that was recommended to me by very knowledgable forum member:
BMW USB OBD Diagnostic Cable Inpa Ediabas Dis SSS GT1 | eBay

Ok, I am here with the car at the wife's work place, and put my obd2 reader and at the transmission side I am getting this code at pending:
P0721
Output speed sensor circuit range performance.

Did not do any resource on this code, whats about,
As I have to drive it back home.


Thank you,

That's one of the cables I've got. It's perfect for that.

bosanci28, I sent you the link last week on the replied to your email.
Again, as civdiv mentioned I also think your problem is mechanical, not software... most likely you will need the transmission fixed.

You might be lucky just replacing the output sensor. Read this:

P0721 Output Speed Sensor Circuit Malfunction - DodgeTalk : Dodge Car Forums, Dodge Truck Forums and Ram Forums

It looks like this guy wasn't so lucky.
http://www.justanswer.com/transmissi...ed-sensor.html

yeap, that's the guy from romania....

thanks,i will get that one,there
and it looks like it comes with usb cable and the software!

thank you,

will get that one.
thanks!

okay,got home ,
and hook up my scanner again,and that code is nowhere to be found...
it run away..i guess.


called the dealer ,and said $60 /order 2 days for that output speed sensor,oem part: 24341421193 and i think cross reference is : 24341218551 from here:

RealOEM.com * BMW E53 X5 4.6is A5S440Z MOUNTING PARTS CONTROL UNIT,
nr#6. (pulse generator ),
and of course is inside the tranny!,

so now i have few things to order,and was hopping that i can get them locally !,but the oil i think only online can get it.

so i must get :

-tranny oil (zf lifegurad 5)

-tranny filter kit (here)

-output speed sensor (here)-or will get it directly from the dealer.


and i guess after will have to do a coolant radiator replace also.

thank you,

This reminds me of a few posts on some other BMW forums, where the insulation of the wires around the plastic connector that hooks up to different sensors got frayed, giving all kind of codes. One guy actually examined the wires around the connectors and noticed that the insulation will split and degrade just like the plastic cooling parts.

I just thought to throw this out there maybe this will help some people who read this post and have some "bad sensors issues".

The P0721 code is very common on the 5HP24. It doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with the speed sensor, just that it has detected an output shaft speed that the controller wasn’t expecting to see. In other words, a clutch is slipping.

Phil

yes, i was reading that somewhere!,thanks for pointing that out!

hmm,from my reading it could be the speedy sensor or other internal parts ,clutches ,etc... hopefully is only that sensor! Not too much money on hand right now to rebuild the tranny ,or get a new one .

thank you,for your advice!

My 02 is doing this exact same thing but only when the tranny gets heated up. If I make the turns slow and give it time to shift I don't get the BANG/JOLT but would love to know what it takes to get yours working. My transmission is only 3 years old and about 70,000 miles. Guess they don't make them to last.

Shawn

yes, my tranny at 75k and doing this ,very disappointing !

this is my 3rd x5,i mean all my wife,she drives them! i do have a truck,but i love the power in the 4.6, i still have to buy some stuff first ,like tranny oil,filter,and that sensor if that maybe the problem,but who knows,that will happen next week ,as will go for few days out.

hopefully will fix if not may have to go deeper in the tranny.



@smwmustang,

have you done anything with yours?

thanks

Not yet, I parked it for a while and then started driving it again and nothing happened for a few more weeks. Finally figured out that if I drive it like a grandma it does not slip. I only have to drive a few miles a day and have not taken it to the indy yet.

If I turn slow and don't try to gun it in the turn it drives fine and i can go days without ever having an issue. It is only when I don't let it shift all the way into gear that it messes up. Sure seems more like the clutch plate or convertor to me but the convertor was changed when the tranny was as well.

My mustangs sure are easier to work on!

SHawn

yes, it could be anything wrong at this point, i have to change few basics ,before going deeper into the tranny.

and , i am the same too , i let the rpm go down and then easy go,and it does not doing the jolt ,but if you force it it does.


anyway,will post here updates whenever i get into the x5 to do some work on it.

If you drive like a grandma your transmission doesn't heat up much. I would check/monitor the transmission temperature (INPA) and mark the point where you get the symptoms. If this point is above the engine temperature or somewhere above 200/220F then I would recommend to look into replacing the main radiator and flush the coolant side of the heat exchanger.

Any news?

Not yet,no news.

I am waiting for the INPA cable and software to arrive from Europe,
so i can check what @fmugur was saying!,then will go from there on my next step.

Thanks,

i was today at the autozone looking for something and i have discovered on a valvoline max life atf bottle this number also:

LT71141 witch is for ZF Transmissions also based on the ZF chart?

autozone link here ,

http://i43.tinypic.com/2lagdi0.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/a9offc.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/takkug.jpg

well is recommended by valvoline to use...

Some people used Valvoline. Not sure how good it is, or how it will last, or if it will affect the transmission negative.

One point I have to make: they list all those BMW approved ATF's, which are all different p/n (11 digits per BMW) and have different applications (different transmissions), yet this magic Valvoline MaxLife can be used for any of these?

Attached is the BMW ATF approved list of oils. Call it the BMW ATF bible if you will.

Attachment 60036

Cheers

hi,thanks for that bible...

now ,for 5hp24, does it go under 11a or 11b?

i think is 11b from what i see.

thanks,

Correct. It's 11B.

Thanks,Doru.

Regards.

It is unfortunate that this is the way the world works, but you actually have to read those labels like a lawyer, to see the subtle differences in the labels they put on each bottle. That label is designed to fool unsuspecting consumers.

"Recommended for use in...." is a phrase that oil and atf companies use when they don't meet the specification. They are saying, essentially, that they don't meet the specification but you should trust them and use it anyway, it will be fine. It very well may be. But it doesn't meet the specification. And as was pointed out above, ZF themselves caution not to use Dexron due to issues with clutch engagement, yet this fluid is somehow a Dexron fluid and a ZF fluid at the same time. The fact that they say it is good for different specifications, when those specifications themselves are contradictory, is a sign that they are playing games. They are saying that they know more about the ZF transmission than ZF does. I think that is nonsense.

Valvoline say on this bottle that it is recommended for use where Dexron is called for. But at the same time, they sell a different ATF that does meet the Dexron spec. The language they use on that label is "...meeting and exceeding the requirements of the General Motors' DEXRON®-VI specification." That is very precise language. (As an aside, you will note that they use the trademark symbol. That is another tell tale.) And the bottle you showed the picture of is not the same fluid, but they think you should use it anyway. If you needed Dexron fluid, which would you use? They can obviously blend a fluid to a spec if they want to. They are already paying the license fee. And they are selling a generic fluid at the same time. The trouble is, with the ZF fluid spec, they don't have one that meets the spec, they just sell the generic fluid.

The multi purpose fluids are not designed for your transmission. They are designed for automotive shops who don't want to stock different fluids, and want one generic fluid so as to keep their inventory costs down. It is a bad reason to select a particular fluid.

@JCL,
you right, i am starting to see the image more clear about this oil ,what to use.

now ,on that 11b list that @Doru added as attach,looks that the

oil at oreillyauto/kragen : (post 34 also):
Pentosin - Automatic Transmission Fluid
Part Number: ATF1-1L link here,
meets BMW standards...

based of the chart.

thanks

Dude...just buy the ZF oil. Quit trying to save pennies that could cost you $$$$.

Your location says you are on the west coast. You could have had the fluid by now and saved gallons of gas running back and forth to the cheapy parts stores... :stickpoke

:iagree:

The engine and transmission are way to expensive to repair to skimp on lubrication.

off course i was not going to put some non-bmw tranny oil in my x5, i only did some research to see what oils may have the bmw numbers,

and from the bmw specs ,

Pentosin and ZF lifeguard5 are both on the bmw chart.

now if i want to get Pentosin witch is 17$ /1L local pickup,witch at 6 pc,is 102$ plus tax ,free local pickup.
now,for the ZF lifeguard5 at $87 for 6L comes at $104 with tax and shipping.

so ZF brand will be better to get.


(still waiting on the inpa soft and cable to arrive)

Update,

I got the software and cable did the test of the cooling test with INPA like @fmugur, advise me too,
now we have come to a point that it may not be related to the cooling/heating related.

You can see test here:

video part 1:

2003 bmw x5 4.6is inpa test cooling monitoring part 1 test during driving. - YouTube

video part 2:

2003 bmw x5 4.6is inpa test cooling monitoring part 2 test during driving. - YouTube

video part 3:

2003 bmw x5 4.6is inpa test cooling monitoring part 3 test during driving. - YouTube

Test done:

M= Miles
E=Engine
T=Tranny

at:

3 Miles done / 105'C Engine / 96'C Tranny
6M / 106 E / 100 T
10M / 107 E / 104 T

(up to here i had flat freeway,from here i started going up the heal ):

at:

12 M / 99 E / 107 T
16 M / 105 E / 109 T
17 M / 99 E / 110 T
19 M / 95 E / 111 T ***
20 M / 108 E / 109 T

(here at this point was exiting out from the freeway ramp and getting ready to stop, at 4.48pm,then
crossed the bridge and before i went back to enter the freeway i stopped at 4.49pm)

From here ,i enter freeway and started to come down on the freeway,
at:

26 M / 105 E / 107 T
27 M / 105 E / 107 T (turned a/c on to see if any changes)
30 M / 105 E / 107 T (no changes, turned a/c off , also at this point i got to flat freeway)
34 M / 106 E / 106 T
38 M / 105 E / 106 T
39.5 M / 107 E / 106 T

(here i stopped in drive ,
then in parking and i had:
39.5 M / 109 E / 106 T.

I drove 40 miles, at 2500 Rpm's ,and at 70 mph.

This was the test done with my x5 driving and laptop connected to the inpa software and the x5.

All test was done in Celsius .
(converter to Fahrenheit is here if you need it)
111'c = 231'f

So ,as you can see in here or videos, engine temp was from 95 to 108 , and the tranny was up to 111'c.

Now, not sure where the tranny temp should be, or it could be okay...


Next,to take the tranny pan down to see if any findings...

Update,


Ok, i have take out the tranny pan,


see pictures: here,


I do see some metal shaving but not really much,oil looks burned like the dealer said,it come out quite a lot ,
as it was on cold tranny, and the 4 magnets where quite full with some stuff i guess from shavings , but putting my finger in there did not notice any big pieces of shaving,

If you look on one of my pictures on my finger ,i thing in the pan corner and wall found just a little bit,


Also called few places around that deals with bmw only and they said that temp is little high maybe because
of the smaller cooler ,or the tranny thermostat that's under the expansion tank may not work properly , but i guess this is still an internal problem.

So what you guys this think?

Thanks,

(post 80 and this one are new...)

Inspected the valve body cracks and i don't see any cracks...

Now,regarding those valves can those be tested , on the electrical side? like the

one that helps with shifting ?...

(still need to read the tranny manual ,and what those do )

Thanks,

http://i40.tinypic.com/96vnua.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/992og6.jpg

any news?

I do not know if you solved the jolt problem.
The transmission downshifts to lower gears as the car is slowing down and should be in first gear when at a complete stop. the jolt is happening because it is delaying to downshift and then it downshifts into the lower gear. Also it is happening on re-acceleration after slowing down, it is going into first gear during acceleration, when it is supposed to go into first gear during slowing down. To me it sounds like a transmission problem. The most likely possibility is low fluid and/or dirty filter. Also it can be an issue of software/controls as well. And sometimes an engine performance problem. I am curious to know how it was resolved.

@ika,

Not much news,but the only news is that i have changed oil and filter (petrosin atf-1) and tested the output speed sensor,done the driving test again ,and still does the 1-2 jolt when hot,so this is an internal problem due to some o-ring seal failing , i think from my reading at clutch A somewhere.

Right now i have took the tranny down and waiting for the rebuild kit.



@Bismark,

Fluid was ok,no software updates available for the 2003.

Tranny internal problem.


Thanks,

I have same problem , it's the engine performance . Just watch the rpm when you try to stop the car... It goes way below and to abrupt under 500rpm. It shouldn't . When engine hot its really annoying this jolt so in town I drive it in Sport mode ( less obvious) and also you will protect the transfer case . I tried everything I think it might the solenoids

opened the tranny , today , and yes, found few problems:

The Bearing set (02.240-1058 20 016) - apart

The Disc Carrier (72.180 - 1058 271 041) - signs of rubbing against each other.

And also the O-Ring on the input shaft ,broken.
(70.014 - 0734 313 151)

Well this confirms all the info that jolt 1-2 is from this few things.

I have same problem...

please provide pics.
what those numbers are:
The Bearing set (02.240-1058 20 016) - apart

The Disc Carrier (72.180 - 1058 271 041) - signs of rubbing against each other.

And also the O-Ring on the input shaft ,broken.
(70.014 - 0734 313 151)

4.6 IS Transmission subtle nudge and EDS 5
 

Could you keep me posted on your fix bosanci28. I have a similar issue. I have the 2-1 light jolt (I mean light), but definetly notice it. Usually after the tranny warms up or operating temp. I also have an EDS 5 solenoid code P1745, BMW CODE 05. Cannot replicate as it only becomes present on mornings before I leave for the shop on COLD COLD days(-10 to -40C). Gonna swap positions with maybe 03 or 02 shortly.

Not sure if these are related issues. Just hesitant to see dealer. Possible EGS unit has weak transistor. Would love to scope but once it goes into failsafe, trans. at max. pressure. If turn truck off and restart 10 seconds after runs, failsafe is gone and runs good. Sometimes good for 1 week. sometimes 6 weeks.

This trans. also has been rebuilt, but not the valvebody from what I was told, at 140,000 kms. Same jolt before and after the rebuild. Torque converter replaced with OEM from BMW, and ZF OEM fluid (50 bucks a L) per my request. New filter ETC.... New VB $1700.00 from Germany. Not a lot of tranny shops familiar with these.

I know there's a lot of possibilities, just wondering if anyone here has seen this. I've attached the code parameters from shopkey, hopefully it comes up on this posting.

i have order repair kit and the bearing,and waiting for them to come...till then ,wait..wait..wait.

Update:

My X5 is on the road for about a week now! did over 100 miles ,all working fine "no jolt, and all running even smoother !.

I would like to take few seconds here and thank everyone that give me any advice! , i really appreciate !

Regards,
Bosanci28

Thanks for posting a solution to your problem. Many time people come on this forum with a problem but never post a solution once the problem is solved so those threads are worthless.

Sounds a LOOSE CHAIN to me.

I have changed the :

*Bearing set
(02.240-1058 20 016)

*O-Ring on the input shaft
(70.014 - 0734 313 151)

*Shim 2.20 mm

*Added oil and filter

*Changed other gaskets and o-rings in my way out,whatever
i could change and that's all...

So you need few things to have:

Parts:

*Gasket kit set
*oil and filter
*Shim
*Bearing

Is not hard,but just takes time ,for me i took it out first day,the next day
i opened up, inspection to find the problem,witch was clutch a,b (parts within) , changed
the o-ring and bearing,find the shim you need,i ordered ,after it come ,installed it
all , next day put tranny up, next day put oil up,check level,and again the next day
check the level again,all good,tested the x5 on the road , All OK.

(The only thing is ,the time for parts to come,take most of it,so you will be stuck for at least 3 weeks,till you will have it running)

Good luck ! to all and Thanks.

Yep, sounds about right. Feels pretty cool to work through it, too.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Thanks for the summary!:thumbup:

*Bearing set (02.240-1058 20 016)

*O-Ring on the input shaft (70.014 - 0734 313 151)

this are BMW part numbers?
where to get?
have I to remove trany completely or enough to remove filter and cover?
I have same trany problems.
Thanks

Yes sir, cool job...:D

No problem, Friend.

*Overhaul Kit 5HP24 (O-Ring is inside this kit.)
Purchased from CTSC.

*Needle bearing 5HP24 ,here:
Link...,

*Shim , after you done with the above based on your end-play ,you buy
it, it could be 2.00,or 2.20, or 2.40 ,but i think you maybe at 2.20mm ,but all
depends on your clutches ...how worn they are.

I got the shim from Erikson,paid about 40$ for the shim and 2-3 day shipping as i was in need to have it faster.

(but look in the repair manual to make sure whatever maybe bad in yours is the same numbers,on the parts above)


Yes,you have to take the tranny down all the way...when you open the tranny,make sure you go slow and take pictures,because when you will want to put it back,it will be little confusing...even with the repair manual.

If i am not mistaken , you dont have to open the oil pan if you are going to change only the o-ring and the bearing,plus the shim,but you do want to put new filter and plus you have to inspect your valvebody for any cracks...there where some pictures somewhere of a cracked one,dont remember where...

Anyway,

Good Luck.

***Special Thanks to Fmugur for helping offline with extra info.!***

Bosanci28 - any idea on your total cost to do the repairs. Sounds like I have the same issue. I can't do it myself but would like to know the parts cost to have someone do the work.

thanks,

Shawn

Parts Cost:

*Gasket kit set - $180 with shipping included
*oil - $180 for oil
*filter - $45
*Shim - $40 with fast shipping included -2day
*Bearing - $25 with shipping


About $470 in parts

Some shops in my area wanted about $3800 for
all the job : removal,rebuilding and warranty for 2 years.
They said only the tranny was $3200

But i found a shop in Bay Area San Francisco that does this brand
of trannys and is certified to rebuild them for $2600 or 2800 with 2 year warranty
but you have to do the labor yourself...

But me i did only buy the parts and do it my self, the hard part and time consuming is to take the
tranny out and then put it back ... to work on it is relaxing ,but must pay attention what you are doing...

My tranny still runs strong , no problems as of yet.

Goodluck,

Dropped it off at the tranny shop this morning. Should know soon what all she needs. I will update this thread as well so we can see how our similar issues are related.

Got the car back today. So good so far. Total parts and labor before markup was $1250. Shop charged me $2120 with tax and said it would normally be $2800 plus tax so everything I have seen is correct for the $3000 range.

True test will be when it heats up and then we will know how it is running. The needle bearing was bad and this appears to be the culprit as with most for the "bang" that happens and you think you were just rearended!

Complete rebuild of everything so hopefully we will get another 100,000 out of her. Only time will tell but if you have that "bang" in the 1 - 2 shift area or when in a slow downshift turn then your luck is probably out as well as your bearing!

Good to hear that you finally go it.

So they told you about needle bearing to be bad? how about

the o-ring on the input shaft?

http://i62.tinypic.com/10x66fo.jpg

Thanks.

I personally got to look at the transmission when it was apart. The o-ring was still in tact and di dnot show any signs of wear that I could tell. There are a few o-rings so I could have looked at the wrong one, but judging by your photo I believe that is what I inspected.

Either way, we replaced all of them just in case. It was in 1000 pieces when I looked at it so I could have easily overlooked it.

smwmustang: if you know the history of the transmission, did it get fluid changes or did the original fluid last the lifetime of the transmission?

Great question!

According to the Carfax there was work done in Aug of 2010. I called the dealer before buying the car and they said they put in a new transmission with a 2 year BMW warranty. There was only about 2000 miles on it when I was looking to purchase it so I figured it would be great.

So 3 years later and 24,000 miles on a "new" transmission it failed. Come to find out they put in a "used" transmission and this also makes sense of why the dealer quit returning my calls when I challenged them on it. Funny how that happens.

Since I thought it was new I had not had any service done to it as in the short time I had it I did not think it needed to be serviced. Come to find out it was about a quart or a little more low on fluid and no leaks were found. Sounds like some shotty work to me but I will never know now. The life of the transmission is unknown but it only made it about 3 years in the car. No way to know how many miles were on it.

I had the same issue, i did a fluid and filter replacement and that helped a bit. Il try the o ring and bearing and see if it fixes it for good. 60k trans oil changes go a long way. Dont go longer then 100k