Calling all E53's with HID's in the H3 Projector Fog lights!
 

X5SND and I have recently undertaken the popular projector fog light conversion with the Depo H3 projector housings (the ones that came on the pre-2003 cars), but we are also in the processing of installing H3C Morimoto HID kits in the housings as well.

Now, he is farther along than I am and reports some issues of moisture build up on the inside of the housings, and had to install additional vents. However, he is the first documented case of moisture build up I have seen, and I theorize it may be due to an alternate bulb wiring method. He used a wiring method which left the rear "cap" on the housing completely intact, whereas all the install methods we have seen have some variation of running the bulb wires through the back cap of the housing, and either sealing up the hole with silicone or using the rubber grommet installed on the H3 bulbs to seal the hole up.

Those of you that have installed H3 HID's in your fog light housing (H3 projector version only), have you had any moisture build up issues, and did you drill out the rear cap of the fog light housing to utilize the grommet for the HID bulb wires?


This would be helpful in figuring out how to avoid moisture build up for others who want to perform this mod, thanks!



EDIT: Please see most recent post, could someone that has the Genuine BMW or TYC projector housings (not Depo's) pop out their fog housing for me and snap a few quick pics, I'd like to see if the Depo's are missing a vent! Thanks!

I have no idea how my HID fogs were installed but I do not have any moisture issues.

So basically, no help to you, and just like to hear myself type.

It actually is a decent help to me darks b/c I'm assuming 99% of guys with the HID's in the projector fogs are installed a certain way, the way that X5SND was trying out was a joint venture idea to clean up the wiring a bit, but he ran into some issues with moisture. See the thread tmv started about the projector fog light conversion, and scroll to the last page or so where he goes in depth with his moisture issues as well as the method of install he used for the bulbs (which was admittedly my idea and now I feel bad he is having troubles with the moisture)

If others chime in with no issues with moisture buildup we might have to mark down that utilizing the grommet on the HID bulbs with a hole drilled in the back of the cap is the recommended install, as opposed to other methods one might have.

No problem for me here .. Make the vent tube still there.

DOUBLE POST CAN MODS DELETE 1

No problems here. Drilled out the rear of the cap and used the HID's rubber grommet.

Using OEM fog projector housings with a 35w HID kit. No condensation.

What he said.

Bring me the Car Rb...ill make it happen for you....or when im in the area...we'll get some beer and do thsi..lol...

I used to work at a car auto shop in my town, but we also did a ton of HID conversions. Our winters can get nasty here so we have an unusual amount of X5's around. I have personally done about 6-8 HID retrofits in a number of years of the x's and seen probably 20-30 other x's done by other techs. One of our "guarantee's" was that if the assembly got any sort of moisture in it that they could bring it back and it would be fixed at no cost. In the time I worked there (4 years) I saw one come back with this problem and it was because the cap itself somehow got loosened and once that was corrected it went away and never came back, as far as I know. In every installation we would drill the cap and install the bulb. Our kits all came with grommets for just that reason, we always silicone the grommet in as well. It seemed to work, and work well. I have not yet done the conversion on mine (03) because im still trying to figure out how the hell im going to get rings into my housings.

While the whole "build up of moisture" escapade doesn't really bother me since I've dealt with this before....I can see how it could have the potential to be pretty frustrating to those who aren't necessarily Familiar with this stuff though.

At this point, I'd venture to say on the ease of install, and relatively good results...the "grommet in the cap" method will be more than adequate To 95% of people looking to go the projector & HID route. However, for the remaining 5% who are after that edge on either light output or customizing the appearance of the fogs the route I took is a must. I still think it lends to a cleaner look as far as wires go...

At the end of the day, it was probably a lot more work than most would be willing to put in for such a project.....but I'd do it the exact same way again. :)

Hey J or someone similar who does NOT have the Depo housings, if you have TYC or Genuine Valeo BMW projector fog units, can you just pop one out for me real quick and snap some pics of the top, back, and bottom of the housing?

I want to be sure the Depo's are not missing a vent near the lens, as I'm looking at the picture of a Genuine BMW housing on line and see the pink patch? Looks like a vent which my housings definitely do not have.


http://i.ebayimg.com/t/BMW-Genuine-F...+OQ~~60_12.JPG

As of now I know my Depo units are completely watertight because I have washed the car several times and water does NOT get in at all, there only gets to be some fogging near the bottom of the lens after the HID's have been running for a while, obviously the theory is the 35w burner is producing less heat so the fogging occurs, now if the Genuine BMW/TYC aftermarket housings do have a vent near the lens, this makes things interesting and I might be able to solve why it seems myself and X5SND were the only two people who got fogging issues when installing HID's in these projector fogs.


Thanks to anyone who can look into this for me!

Will do this afternoon man

J you are the man, such a silly thing but its driving me crazy.

I'm actually contemplating just going back to reflector housings and non-HID (with xenonmatch H11 bulbs) but the projectors look so CLEAN, its a hard look to get rid of up front!

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1500_.jpg

Looks like the TYC's have the vent up top of the housing from what the pics show, unlike the Depo's (the pink circle).

Would be interested to know if the OEM's have the vents up top and at the rear on the cap. If so that would make sense as to why you can drill out the back cap of the OEM housings (thusly removing the factory vent) and have no fog, as there would be still a vent in place in the housing.

In no particular order...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...5foglamp11.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...5foglamp10.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...X5foglamp9.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...X5foglamp8.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...X5foglamp7.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...X5foglamp6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...X5foglamp5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...X5foglamp3.jpg


FYI the back caps are drilled for the HID kit gasket, and silicone was applied about that cirumference and on the two wire penetrations not used. You can also see the Lamin-X 40mil clear protective film.

edit: This is a 35w digital HID kit from eBay. $60 three years ago and has worked great.

Hey Jay,

Wonderful pics and thank you so much for sharing them! That is exactly what I was looking for, it seems the OEM housings don't have an issue even though the vent is removed when drilling out the back cap! I also have my extra "grommet holes" siliconed, as well around the grommet too.

On this picture though, is that just a bad reflection or is that some fogging up on the inside?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...X5foglamp9.jpg

I ran outside and double checked.... it's light hazing in the plastic. NOT condensation, just a weird spot where the plastic is hazy.

IDK. It can't be seen when installed so it's whatever ha

Yeah but mine isn't really condensation either, its more of a haze (no visible droplets, etc) Just curious were you running those fogs on during the day? Mine wouldn't fog/haze at all unless the fogs were running for a bit, just curious if perhaps its not as visible as mine is, but might be there nonetheless.

And are the lenses on the Valeo units glass or plastic? You're an excellent help man.

Going to the store to get tea for sick wife so I'll run them as a test. (I rarely do)

Plastic, and no hazing / fogging up after use. (Pretty much certain there's nothing in there to haze up lol)

+1

the fog lights are protected enough from the elements that it wont get any moisture in

Guys are you positive that the front lenses are in fact plastic/polycarb? The ones Ricky and I have are definitely glass fron ends. Furthermore to my suprise, the Vaelo reflector units (oem facelift model foglights that came with my truck) were also glass fronts.

If your units are poly, that could also explain part of why Ricky and I were experiencing the moisture issues we did.

For what it's worth, I sealed the unit while in a very dry environment.

So did I, with Silicone II in the extra 2 holes and around the grommet, but I think we may be on to something here. If the Valeo OEM units are in fact plastic/polycarb lenses, perhaps that plastic lenses are the missing link here, and which is why the guys with the OEM units are able to drill out the back cap with no ill effects!

J, thank you so much for your help on this one and I hope any of my requests weren't an inconvenience at all, it may be too early to decisively say, but I think, as Michaelangelo from the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles would say, we have found "THE MISSING LINK"!


Hey S, thanks for chiming in here. I'm theorizing but perhaps what has happened here if the Valeo's are in fact plastic lenses, is that the Depo's and the aftermarket projector fogs have for some reason been switched to glass lenses over the years since the original Lightwerkz install? Perhaps they were not glass when his thread went up?

My guess? Glass lenses are less expensive to make than their polycarb counterparts; this accounts for some of the price difference between the depos and OEM units. Secondly, the glass has a higher thermal conductivity, allowing warm humid air (inside te projector) to condense on the cool glass.

My theory of "more ventilation" holds true, because by dropping the internal temp of the housing, you are also minimizing the temperature differential with the atmosphere....and this when u pulled the caps off, went for a spin without moisture (pre-vents) it was because my housings were open to the atmosphere (minimal temperature differential)....make sense?

Long story short, my recommendation: if you plan to do a HID in projector fog, get the units with the polycarb lenses and save yourself a ton of hassle! Lol.

Makes absolute sense, if you have glass lenses, be sure to add some ventilation especially near the top of the housing. If you have polycarbonate/plastic lens Valeo GENUINE OEM housings, just tune your cutoffs and drive the sumbitches!

Considering most BMW dealers sells the Valeo units for about 100 bucks apiece (discounted), I am seriously considering just getting a pair of OEM units to have this done right once and for all.


Will keep you updated as well, did you see my picture of the TYC housing on page 2? Looks like a glass lens on that unit as well, but the "pink patch" on the top of the housing might in fact be a factory vent, as the rear cap on the TYC units does not have a built in vent like the factory ones. Here is the pic once again:

http://www.rockauto.com/getimage/get...14-1&width=450


TYC housing cost - $62
OEM Valeo housing cost - $100


It would be a gamble to get a TYC housing in hopes that the "pink patch vent" would be enough for me to keep airflow moving in that housing since it does in fact have glass lenses. My fogs are currently still at a local retrofit shop because initially I thought this would be an easy fix for him, however my passenger side fog still has a cutoff that is messed up so I'll be needing another housing again for him to tune (I'm getting sick of picking the shield myself and being responsible for my own screw ups), and if I'm not getting another Depo housing for him to work on my OCD will drive me crazy if both sides don't brand match LOL.

At this point with the cost I'd almost rather get two OEM housings, pay him for the hour or so to tune them both at the cutoff, plug them in and be done.


UPDATE: Confirmed from a seller on ebay of the TYC housings who checked with the factory and the TYC's are definitely glass lenses like the Depo's.

I did see that pic on the previous page...I always had a hunch that the semi-circle portion was there for a reason! Makes total sense now!

Dude if you're mentally prepared to spend 200 more smackeroos on OEM housings....perhaps you should just old off a couple weeks since as you know I have somethin else in the pipeline! ;) ;)

You want to sell me your tuned and moisture free depo's? Text me a price and let me know man! I could even send you my Depo's for free right now just so you don't have to have the "missing fog light" openings in the bumper, that is driving me crazy most of all right now!

And although I believe j belknapps housing lens might be plastic, I have differing opinions as I have a seller of a Valeo housing on eBay telling me the lens is glass, while TerminatorX5 says he believes the lens is glass as well.

I can't seem to get a definitive answer if the lenses are glass or plastic on the Valeo units.



EDIT: TerminatorX5, tmv, Craig Hacker @ Open Road Edison BMW, and an ebay seller of a Valeo unit all tell me that the lenses are glass on the Valeo units. JB, unless you have an early build and they switched to glass later on in production, I'm afraid I think they are all glass lenses. Still amazed that you don't have any fogging problems like myself and X5SND did with the 35w HID kit. Now my theory has to be that the Morimoto ballast/bulb combo we are using is just that much more thermally efficient compared to other aftermarket kits, and produces significantly less heat which creates the fogging on the inside. Let's face it, if both have glass lenses, I can't see why the Valeo units compared to the Depo's are any different in regards to structure, both get the factory vent removed when the bulb is installed through the grommet in the back.

And you're absolutely right I really don't want to drop 200 on new oem housings, especially if they are glass lenses and I'm risking still having fogging issues.

I'd rather take my chances with the TYC's and see what happens (assuming yours aren't leaving the X for a while) as they seem to have a venting location that is ideal, but if you want to let yours go I will surely pay for them and get mine back from the local retrofitter who has my fogs now (who is the guy who subsequently tuned the original Lightwerkz install from what he tells me).


It would be nice for me to try to buy one TYC housing and see if that "factory pink patch" vent is enough to keep the airflow moving in the housing, but shoot me a text or PM and lets talk man!

Update for anyone who cares to know (this is more for my documentation really):


My OCD literally drives me crazy. I got my fog lights back from a local retrofitter who confirmed there is definitely an issue with the left side output now, and I did testing in the basement and without a bulb spacing of approx. 1-2 mm away from the shield, the output is probably half of what the other side is. The passenger fog emits a much wider and fuller beam pattern, and it will drive me crazy to have two differing outputs. So I definitely need to attempt to open up the Depo fogs, and fix the output on the projectors, a la X5SND.


Now, as far as the OE Valeo housings are confirmed, I have 4 sources (tmv, TerminatorX5, an ebay seller who has them up for sale, and Craig Hacker @ Edison BMW) saying they are glass lenses, and I appreciate you checking JB, but I think you might be wrong on this. the Valeo's are definitely glass lenses. I have put in an offer for $21 bucks shipped on ebay for a used Valeo housing to do a side by side comparison of quality, output, and if the Valeo housings do not in fact fog up like the Depo's do when the fogs are on and running. I will do a side by side and have one Depo fog lit up and one Valeo fog lit up and see if just the Depo, or both fog up, assuming I win the bid/offer on the one. I would do this test before attempting to open up and vent the Depo's.


I also bought a spare set of H3 bulbs 4300k from ebay for 11 bucks, the local guy I loaned my projectors to do some tuning notched the bulb base a bit on one bulb to get it a touch closer to the lens, it doesn't do much, but annoys me somewhat as I'd like to have an "unmodded" set in the lights, I will most likely keep the H3C TRS bulbs as spares, and someday notch the other bulb so they both fit flush against the bulb holder in the projector.


So my order of operations for this would go as follows:
1) If I get a Valeo housing and it doesn't fog up whatsoever as compared to the Depo, and the output is cleaner, I would buy 2 OEM housings, and call it a day. Maybe some minor tweaks to improve output a hair, but I wouldn't mess with them much at all.
2) If the Valeo housing fogs up just like the Depo housing does, I would buy two TYC housings (57 bucks apiece), which have the vent nearer to the lens, and test them with the H3 HID's, if they still fog up (which I can't see why they wouldn't, if the Valeo and Depo both fog up), I will most likely just put halogen bulbs in them for the time being, while I take my time opening up the Depo's that I have, trying to mimic what X5SND has done. Depending on how my tests go, I may just sell the Morimoto kit I have bought to recoup my cost and just keep the TYC fog lights with H3 Hoen Xenonmatch I have in my basement now, I still have the factory plug to H11 connector for retrofit, and call it a day.

I am trying my hardest to figure out an HID/housing combo for these fog lights that do not have moisture issues, as I'd like to be able to post definitively which combination you may have moisture problems with, and which combo you would not, and although drilling out some holes in the housing and adding some vents is simple enough, I'd rather do some tests first to rule out any differences between brands, etc.

Regardless, when I am finished up with these, I should have an extra set of projector fog lights for sale.


Some may say I'm crazy on here for doing all this testing on just fog lights, but I like answers, and sometimes you have to spend some bucks to get some proper answers dammit!

I'm thinking of just paying the dealer price and getting factory valeo fogs. Screw all this modifying of the cut off shield.

Well at 96 bucks apiece I was quoted for Valeo's, that would be all well and good. I put an offer in on ebay for a used Valeo housing (it was buy it now for 24 bucks, I bid 15 plus 6 bucks shipping) which has the back cap and no cracks on the glass, I'd like to resolve the moisture issues X5SND and I seem to be having first, and also would like to see side by side the output of the Valeo projectors to see if there is marked difference compared to Depo.

Clockwork did you ever have issues when you had the H3 HID in the housing with it fogging up while running? If not, what HID kit were you using (brand, bulb type, etc)



x2 on the modifying part, I mean a couple touches with a pick is about all I might do if I get a second set of housings, the Depo's would need much more modification as the beams are clearly different side to side, but you're right, it is a ton of pain in the ass work that I don't have the time or care to do especially when I got leaves coming down like a mofo here in Jersey lol!

RB, yeah I remember a SMALLLLLL issue with the mositire, but nothing near the amount to affect light output.
I just have a cheap $30 set from e-bay with no issues. I have a cable extension issue sometimes, but its not an HID kit problem. Just a wire extension piece I made myself from old HID kits and proper connectors from truck to kit.

but, I have to get my heater problem (or lack of heat) fixed before I can play with projector HID fogs again.

It doesn't affect the light output at all, I can tell you that much, but it definitely does collect at the bottom of the lens, just some "fogging" of the housing. Like I said, if I get this used Valeo for dirt cheap and it fogs up as well, I will just get some TYC housings as they have a vent near to the lens, I would test the HID in the TYC housing, if it still fogs up I'll most likely just run halogen bulbs in it, and modify/open up the Depo housings on my spare time to fix the projectors and vent those housings.

Ricky I give you credit for seeing this through to the end! I think its about time we start placing some wagers down as to what the final outcome is and come up with a thorough method to test our hypotheses!!

I remain adamant that our issues are the result of using H3C kits with the smaller burner...thus producing much less heat than a standard burner and halogen!

Well that's why I have a supposedly standard H3 4300k set on the way to me, will shoot you some side by side pics, as well as the "junk" 25 dollar Valeo housing I'm investing in on ebay, "testing materials" lol!

If all else fails, its back to Hoen Xenonmatch H3's for me, I don't have patience nor the skill yet in my young grasshopper retrofitting abilities to be cutting these open and venting the housing in multiple places. If I can't find a bulb/housing combo that won't fog up (although there are apparently multiple guys that claim to have no issues), I'll sell the lot on HIDPlanet and plug in my bulbs and be done with it.


You know what its like with OCD driving you crazy! Even if I could make the Depo's work like you did, I want answers dammit!

Ok so I tested a "regular h3" NON-H3C (from The Retrofit Source) 4300k and a spare 20 dollar Valeo housing from eBay, the results are in, no fogging of this housing with the non-TRS bulb, it definitely gets the housing hot enough!

Also, the quality differences on the depo projector itself are more apparent when looking at the projectors side by side from the back, on the depo the shield is just mounted to the bottom of the lens holder whereas in the Valeo housing the shield is built into the bowl. The bulb holder has a given alignment mount on the Valeo projector, whereas on the depo the bulbs do have a lot of room to move around and the "alignment notches" have enough space that you can misalign bulbs quite easily there.

The Valeo is 10x sharper out of the box, with a hint of color flicker. I will be testing the TRS h3c bulb on my bench tonight as well, with a fan blowing over the lens on both tests to simulate the road wind blowing on the lens (and effectively cooling the surface)

However i should be able to tell right away if the TRS bulb makes less heat or not, I was barely able to handle the housing last night in spots, definitely made it hot to the touch!

Another theory I have is that the Depo's are using cheaper metal, aluminum etc on the casting of their projector and it doesn't conduct heat as well as the Valeo projector does, which is why the Valeo does not fog up with the H3 bulb.

All things considered, my main theory will be affirmed when I test the TRS H3C bulbs in the Valeo housing, if there is no fogging, we know it is due to the materials/design of the Depo housing, if there is fogging with the TRS H3C bulb in the Valeo housing, we know it is due to the bulb not putting out enough heat.

Also, please ignore the shit output pics with my iPhone, the beam is short, but WIDE, just like a fog light should be. The adjustment on the Valeo housing also allows for lower aiming (which one would need when putting HID in the fogs). There is a touch of smiling at the cutoff but I think that is more from the optics of the projector bowl than anything, if you look at the cutoff line it does stay absolutely straight across.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/29/y6ega4ab.jpg
This is after 10-15 mins with the bulb on, no fog (my Depos would fog up prior to this)

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/29/ty9yvy6y.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/29/egary4ut.jpg

These pics are both of a Valeo housing out of the box, the lens has a small crack in it as well (not sure if it affects output but that's why I only paid 20 bux for it)

If my other tests go as planned, I'll be getting another regular h3 bulb from eBay and 2 Valeo OE fog housings, the beam is markedly sharper, wider, and more adjustable out of the box, whereas the Depos require work to get them right, and at a 30 dollar difference apiece, I'd rather have trouble free operation and no need to tweak the Valeos.

Pictures need to be larger:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/30/esybe2e3.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/30/ubesaty8.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/30/uze4udu4.jpg

Sorry for this thread resurrection, but got got a quick question. I'm hitting up my local "stealer" on Friday, was wanting to pickup some OEM projector fogs. From what I could see on your pics, RB, the part number is 8409025 and 026 respectively. Am I correct in thinking these are the correct numbers for the projectors?

Hey Matt, yeah the part numbers are below. If you want to hook them up with halogen bulbs you'll need the socket and mate it to an H11 adapter. If you hook them up with HID bulbs you won't need any retrofit equipment. Let me know if you need anything else


6317840902563178409026

Awesome thanks! I'll be putting in HIDs, will the 35W Morimoto 4300K from TRS be a close match to my low beams?

Yes! That is the kit I have in my fogs. Get the 4300k to match your Philips low beams, and select the "canbus" modules at checkout.

!!! Be sure to put in the order notes that you need "H11" canbus modules as they will send you a connection for an H3 unless you put the note in. It's a special circumstance because you have an H11 connection at the car but the housing uses an H3 bulb. I put the notes in and they included the proper connector !!!!

Use code TRS/HIDP for free shipping.

cool, thanks for the free ship tip! :) can't wait to get this setup, my yellow fogs are driving me nuts...

Yeah I only like yellow fogs on white or black cars. I tried it when I first got the X but put them in my wifes black car instead.