2001 X5 After trans flush has shudder symptoms and torque converter not locking up
 

There really is no good answer that I can find about this issue:

1) I changed my Trans oil (purchase the new oil from the BMW dealer based on VIN#)
2) Followed the correct procedure of draining, warming up the engine, revving up the RPM with AC running, filling the trans fluid

Symptoms:

1) No issues when the vehicle has not warmed up.
2) No issues during hard acceleration
3) No OBD Codes
4) RPMs are bouncing up and down about +-50 RPM at any speed
5) Random and intermittent slight shudder which goes away if I accelerate of decelerate

Potential Diagnosis:

1) Could be not enough Transmission Oil? (Added more oil which did not help)
2) Torque converter lock-up solenoid is not locking up because the viscosity of the new fluid is different than the old fluid?
3) Transmission torque/pressure sensor?

Solution:

1) No one has figure it out on the forums. Seems like people are stabbing in the dark with random guesstimates.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks,
Vic

Even if you're driving at a steady speed in 5th gear above 60mph?

Phil

Did you replace the filter as well? ATF needs to be filled in between 35C-55C, IIRC. Warm up engine is too vague for that. I did it on the old 3.0 following GT1/DIS procedure. Car needs to be leveled.
1. Fill the pan until ATF drip out.
2. Close fill-plug temporarily.
3. Start engine and run through each gears, with a few second in each.
4. Measure the ATF temp.
5. Open fill-plug and pump more ATF in (when it's in correct temp range)
6. When it drip out, let it does so for at least 60 sec.
7. Close fill-plug.
8. Turn off engine.

You might not have the correct amount of ATF in there if you didn't fill it at the correct temp. More or less than correct amount is NOT good.

Sounds like the TCC solenoid in the trans is not working properly.

The purpose of the Transmission Converter Clutch (TCC) feature is to eliminate the power loss of the torque converter stage when the vehicle is in a cruise mode. The TCC System uses a solenoid-operated valve to couple the engine flywheel to the output shaft of the transmission through the torque converter. Lockup reduces slippage in the converter increasing fuel economy. For the converter clutch to apply, two conditions must be met:

Internal transmission fluid pressure must be correct.
The ECM must complete a ground circuit to energize the TCC solenoid that moves a check ball in the fluid line. This allows the converter clutch to apply, when hydraulic pressure is correct.
The TCC is very similar to the clutch in a manual transmission. When engaged, it makes a direct physical connection between the engine and transmission. Generally the TCC will engage at about 50 mph and disengage at about 45 mph.

Sounds like it wasn't filled up properly.

Thanks for the replys.

A questions comes to mind:
1) Why did this symptom appear after the drain/fill? I had absolutely *no* issues with my transmission prior to the tranny drain/fill. (now I'm regretting I did it)

As for the amount of fluid in the case, I filled the tranny until it was overflowing and I had to take the tube out quickly and put that nut on it all while the hot transmission fluid was burning my hand. What a lame process.

This has been a very very frustrating ordeal indeed. Somthing as simple as a tranny drain/fill has turned into a freakn' nightmare. :(

:iagree:

If you got the transmission that hot that it was burning your hand then the trans was too HOT. If I was to do the trans drain and fill I would drain the trans the day before, let it sit over night and fill it the next day after running the engine for about 5 minutes.

Remember High School Physic things expand when they are heated. So if the ATF in the trans was that hot it has already expanded that you actually refill with less ATF so you are LOW on ATF.

Also what type of ATF did you use? Was it the same as what came with the truck or was it a different brand such as Mobil 1 or Castrol?

Start off by getting the proper amount of transmission fluid in there, when the temperature is as per the spec.

This link should help you check your work.
http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...y-02-4-4i.html

Agree it was too hot by the OPs description.

If it was low on ATF, then it would be more likely to have a problem when cold. It appears to be OK when cold, but have a problem when hot. That suggests too much fluid, or the transmission being sensitive to the fluid viscosity (lower when hot), or a problem in a circuit that isn't in play when cold.

OP said fluid from dealer.

I followed this exact process!

Maybe I should just do the whole darn thing over again. Even though I was very meticulous and tried to follow all the steps, it is a possibility that I messed something up.

I have no way of knowing if the problem is too much fluid or viscosity.

Question:
If I raise the X5 on my lift, warm up the trans (I have a IR-thermometer), then if I open the tranny drain screw, should any fluid spill out?

Not much and not for long as long as the vehicle is level.

The key to the process the step where you add more fluid after the initial fill has circulated. Is that what you did?

It is straightforward to check the level properly. You don't need to change the fluid again to do that.

If you used the correct fluid, then the viscosity it correct. The problem is that old fluid can become thicker with age, due to the clutch material that it is holding in suspension. When you put a new (correct viscosity) fluid in, it can be thinner. That can reveal a problem that was not evident with the older (heavier) fluid.

A third possibility is that something was disturbed within the transmission during the fluid change, and a check valve, orfice, or actuator is not functioning correctly. This can only be determined upon teardown, although diagnostic procedures can be done to determine if solenoids/etc are functioning correctly.

Was the engine running when you fill the trans?
W/o engine running the best you can add is 3.5 quarts, you drain 5.5 when dropping the pand and replace the filter! (I assume you have ZF trans)

WARNING, make sure the car is on 4 stands or lifts with all wheels off the ground when doing this!

The engine should be running, the air conditioning on, the parking brake and brake pedal applied and the transmission run through each gear with a short pause before the next gear. Best measurement of fluid level is at 85 degrees and will be inaccurate over 120 degrees F. Level is correct if a small stream runs out of fill hole. Vehicle should be level.

vic op how did you add more tranny oil??
 

Vic op,
In your orginal posting you said you follow the procedure to add the oil to what you think is the correct level and then you have problems and decided to add more oil. But if you added the oil to the right level in the first place it would be dripping out when you tried to add more oil , right.

Was it dripping out? And if it was dripping out are you sure you added more oil then the amount dripping out.

So was it dripping oil when you were trying to add oil the second time around? Or did you use a more creative way to all more tranny oi?

Any issue with passage or particulates impeding flow and operation would be limited to the valve body. If your fluid ops don't bring joy, then drain and strain and save that spendy fluid, pop the pan back off, grab ya a pic/diagram that shows the specific screws that hold the valve body in place, and pop off that valve body. Take to bench, disassemble one section at a time, clean and reassy in like fashion (get gaskets)

Amazing how much little goopy stuff you will find hanging out in nooks and crannies. Most of a Saturday is more than enough time to do a thorough clean and inspect.

That's the step I was waiting to see and didn't until you posted it.

After that you put it in park, leaving the engine running, and add more fluid until it starts to run out (assuming you are within the correct temp range and the X5 is level.

Good luck OP!

:iagree:

But make sure the fluid level is correct first, as per the detailed instructions posted above.

And make sure that the above job is within your capabilities before starting. You will need a kit from CTSC with gaskets and various seals for the valve body. Test the temperature sensor as well, since your problem changes from cold to hot. The valve body is a detailed job, everything has to go back the way it came apart. There are lots of small pieces. It isn't something to rush through. /end warnings.

Sounds good, but not for me.

I took one shot at rebuilding a manual and automatic transmission. Never without experienced help.

There are some things you can have some stuff left over when you are done and it still works fine, like maybe a vacuum cleaner. A transmission is certainly not one of those.

If I am working on something for the first time and a part(s) fall out unexpectedly it is always an O-s##t event. Sometimes it is logical where that part belongs that was not the case with a transmission. Even when that has not happened, I would pick up a part and not be any way near sure :dunno: where it should go.

You’re missing out on lots of fun :D

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...lacement/A.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...lacement/B.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...lacement/C.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i.../RRPhilVB3.jpg

Phil

Great fun I always thought valve bodies were neat to work on. But they're not for everyone.

Very cool photos.

.....and if anyone ever needs any spares or vacuum testing doing, just give me a shout :thumbup:

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...psb87361e8.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...psbdad5ed5.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps0f9ef00e.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps60fbbdbf.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...psb2843e75.jpg

Phil

It would be priceless if someone did a video on rebuilding the E53 transmissions.

Anybody want an everlasting legacy?

It won't be me but I would donate to the cause.

Youtube. ZF 5HP24. First one that came up was a Jag, but it is the same transmission.

Lotta dudes here would pm ya the applicable pages, or he'll, with what we have at work I guess I can just dup the manuals and illustrations and stuff in various formats.

You would become a superhero--Tranny Man--able to ease all apprehension, saving the miserable, the forlorn, from the rack of pain and suffering from tranny death, end the paralysis of to do or not to DIY, the master of gears that go, clutches that hold and convertors that lock.

And, if you improved the durability and performance ---you would be rewarded with gold and silver, accolades and glory, enshrined in the BMW DIY garage of fame, forever.