4.4 4.8 Timing Chain Guide
 

I was doing some searching here and found the 4.4's 4.6 and 4.8's suffer from failed timing chains around 100-140k that render the engines useless. So I did some digging on the net. People here seem to think the guides just fall apart and fail due to age...I found the timing tensioner fails causing slack in the chain and the loose chain demolishes the guides. By the time you get the rattle noise or the power steering noise ...it's to late.

The solution is to change the tensioner at 90k

http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/...Fel9OgodkCcAMQ

Bmw E39 540i timing guide chain tension er replacement e53 X5 4.4 - YouTube

My 4.4 has 85k...changing mine this week.

Are you separating the M62 and N62 or generalizing that they all have the failure? I haven't heard about any N62 issues on this board............yet. As the mileage increases on the motors this could potentially be a problem.

I've read here 2000-2003 4.4 4.6 & 4.8's were reporting the issue and all over 100k.

I'm not sure what model engine generation they have.

Sure seems like cheap and easy preventive measure.

The 4.4 and 4.6 use the M62 power plant and the 4.8 uses the N62. Different designs but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to look into changing the tensioners on all models.

Mine has almost 150K on it (N62) and not a peep from the timing chains.

So saying that most fail between 100 and 140K is nonsense. Most of the chains/guides I've heard of making noise are past the 150k mile mark.

Um.. The later model 4.4 (starting in 2004) uses the N62.

The 4.4 model the OP referred to uses the M62. Thanks anyway

He's talking 2000-2003

Yet you bring up the 4.8is... which wasn't built in these years. So I'm sorry for assuming you were talking in general and not in the model years he was talking about.

Thanks anyway.

2 different interpretations of what was written. That's all. The point of the thread is change your tensioner if you think it will help no matter what V8 motor you use.

Haven't seen the TC Tensioner problem on N62 engine, not yet.
Fail TC Tensioner on M62TU -> fail TC Guide -> damaged engine.

I honestly have yet to see an 03 M62 with the updated TC tensioner fail. I have an 02 4.6is and the TC guides went at 106k, but everything was replaced and im at 129k as of now.

That is correct!!! I would change it, all V-8's. Just trying to help if you don't agree just click on to the next post.

I was doing a search on the subject on this board..4.4-4.6-4.8's were all effected...the years I posted was approx....

This tensioner only effects the lower chain and the guides. The upper tensioners in the head/cams are fine.

I just thought I'd share my experience with start up rattle.

After picking up my motor last April I noticed when it had been stood for a few days upon start up it would rattle for a split second but only after when it was shut down last at full running temp for example if I start it up from cold move it around the drive the shut it off while still cold then leave it standing even a week later it wouldn't rattle on start up but it would rattle if I'd shut it off after a 40 mile drive then leave it 2 days, so after looking into it I had stumbled on to the threads about changing the tensioner, so went ahead and changed and there was no change still made the noise.

Another thing to note is my motor had a service about 3k before I bought it and by now it was about 7.5k and I had noticed the noise becoming more frequent so decided to carry out an oil change and while I was at it I dropped the inspection panel in the sump and it was as clean as a whistle, it had previously had 5w40 oil used so thats what I used again and this made it go back to making the noise less often.

So I went on the search again and stumbled across this Wiki post talking about the M62 start up rattle on the BMW and Land Rover that use the engine and how it was known and regarded as acceptable by the main dealers and that the rattle comes from the Vanos unit and not the chain and sure enough when I had a friend start my car from cold I listerned and the noise was coming from the right head at at the front where one of the the Vanos units is situated.

Check it out:

M62 Startup Rattle - fullfatrr.com Wiki

After reading this I decided to swap out my oil from 5w40 to a good quality Fuchs GT1 5w30 so the oil is thinner at higher temps so when I shut it off after a long run the oil was thinner than before with the 5w40 and guess what I've had no rattle for 2 months.

So before writing off your guides or tensioner start with the basics check what oil your garage is putting in your motor and make sure its a good quality

Not always the case. M62 4.4 with OE guides at over 175k miles here. I have the parts/tools for replacement ready to go in the garage. If they make it to 200k, I'm planning a total engine/heads/trans rebuild, the body/chassis/electricals/interior have worn like iron and look 1/10th their age.

If you catch it before it jumps timing, there's no damage. I had the guides fail on my e38 (m62tub44) at 214k miles but I heard it before they failed completely and the engine still ran fine, so no damage.

The heat is what kills them, and with the aging cooling systems what happens is the engines get very hot when a hose or similar blows (and this happens to all of them as we know), then the guides get damaged by the heat and fail shortly after. In my case, a heater hose went and the engine got hot. I replaced the hose and all was well, but less than a week later I started the car up and it sounded like a diesel at idle. I dropped the pan and sure enough chunks of plastic fell out. I bought the guides from the bmw dealer and replaced them that weekend, the PS guide was shot, DS guide broke into two pieces when I took it out and the center guide had the ends broken off. However, no damage to the engine as it didn't jump timing. I also did not need to re-time the cams as I zip tied the chain to the sprockets so it would not lose timing while I replaced the guides.

Hello Chaps -

So... the good ole Timing Chain Guides - the bane of existence to the M62TU engine..... ;)

I have been around these engines for a few years now and have owned a few cars with this engine - both good and bad engines. Hopefully, it gives me a little bit of credibility on this issue.

The Timing Chain Guides on the M62TU engine and even the M62 (Non-VANOS) engine WILL FAIL at some point. It's inevitable. Past 100K is usually where owners have to start thinking about that repair job.

While replacing the Lower Timing Chain Tensioner is a prudent move, it only prolongs the life of the chain guides - if you are lucky to catch it before they start to deteriorate. It will however NOT prevent the eventual failure.

There are other corresponding things that contribute to this like the type of oil you use in the car and of course general maintenance.

The Tensioners come with a preload spring in them (This was revised at a later date) which is designed to pre-prime the tensioner at start up. This basically pushes the timing chains "off" the guides and once the car starts, the tensioner then operates using fluid pressure from the oil circulating in the engine.

As some posters have already pointed out - there are two types of start up rattles. The most commonly identified one are the chains literally slapping against the guides due to a failed or poor tensioner. This can be alleviated by replacing the tensioner. At the end of the day, replacing a $62 dollar part as insurance for your engine is worth it.

The second rattle is the VANOS rattle. This usually signals the start of the failure of your VANOS seals. Eventually, this rattle will turn into a constant rattling / dull clunking sound from the engine once warmed up. These days, you can get the Besian VANOS kit to replace your seals or replace the VANOS units at about $500 a piece + labor. The VANOS rattle will not kill your M62TU - it is just quite annoying to pull up to a light and sound like a diesel. Maybe just add a "D" to the car's model tag on the back and tell people it's a diesel :dunno:

The issue with the timing guides is they are plastic - hard plastic, but plastic nonetheless. These will eventually failure through a number of reasons as mentioned in Bobzdar's post. However, it's not just heat cycles - it's plastic - it doesn't last forever. The chains are also metal and they DO rest against the guides (that's why they are called guides) and eventually the actually wear a groove into the guides which will eventually cause them to get slack and start slapping against the guides and then - BOOM! Eventual failure.

However, as importantly pointed out by Bob - they do tell you before they go. You will hear them rattle or start slapping around prior to catastrophic failure. I have never heard of any case where they JUST failed out of the blue. So, keep an ear out for that dreadful noise and if it does happen - stop driving the car and get it fixed.

I am happy to tell you that the M62TU engines themselves are quite sturdy and robust engines. If you intend to keep your car for a while it is worth the effort and cost to fix the guides and enjoy another 100K or more miles of driving pleasure. A dealer once reported a case where a lady brought in a 740i M-Sport with 198K miles when the guides failed. They fixed the guides for the owner and during the job, they took a peek at the short block and noticed barely any scarring on the cylinder walls - AT 198K MILES!

As far as your VANOS, I think they belief in the past was to use thicker oil or engine snake or voodoo oils to alleviate this - wrong! The issue with VANOS was a lack of oil around the seals and units at start up and during running. As we know, thick oil does not flow as well as thinner oil. THe better solution was to use lighter weight oil - and synthetic. Owners have had great success with oils like Mobil 1 Synthetic 0W/40 or 5W/40 or 30 oils. They leave a coating on the moving parts at shut down and flow tons faster at start up to help protect your moving bits and the VANOS units.

Eventually those seals do fail though and if you can't stand the noise, then you can acquire the Besian kits for a fix.

Cheers,

Michael

Thanks for the insight as it coresponds to what I call "Good Practices" of vehicle maintenance. Replace and repair as required before total failure occures. Always cheaper than the alternative results. (ask me how I know...did wheel bearings once on another vehicle, after I egnored the squeeks, creaks, and noise. Welded bearing races on the spindles, trashed the rotors due to heat warping, had to replace the spindle, brearings, rotors, brakes, ball joints, tie rod ends, etc. Out in a driveway while it was snowing. What fun that was. Lesson learned the hard way.)

Keep up the great posts as it help us all to do preventive repairs to avoid the death rattles.

When exactly was the revision of the tenisioners? Having one of the last '03 MY M62s with over 175k on OE guides, I wonder if the revision could have been sometime during the '03 MY production run.

I have the same question.. I've yet to see an 03+ have chain guide failure.

I ordered the tensioner today and will replace it.

I would hold off until we find out when EXACTLY the revised tenisioners were put into production M62s. You have an '03, and may ALREADY have the revised units.

Mine has a 12/02 production date. It couldn't hurt to replace it can it?

That is the tough part - I have not been able to find out the revision date. I recently changed the tensioner on my car which has a June 2003 build date and now I am getting an occasional rattle at start up. Now I am jumping through hurdles to get it replaced by the dealer.

The general rule of thumb is that if it is on the shelf, don't take it. If it has to be ordered in - then it is the revised one. Some suppliers are not even aware there was a change or revised tensioner. I do think it was sometime during the final production year of the M62TU.

I wonder if I can get my inspection camera probe down thru the oil fill opening to view the tensioner. Will try.

No harm in replacing.

Thanks. Any idea where this is hiding in the Bentley? Under Timing Chain it only shows the 6 cylinder in the index.

Found it uninstall 117-55 install 117-86. Torque is 65nm/48ft-lb.

You wouldn't be able to see anything, anyway. I think the updated tensioner just has a stiffer spring in it. Either way, it takes about 10 minutes to take the tensioner out if you want to inspect it, very easy job.

Tensioner came yesterday. I was concerned it might not be OEM. Not anymore. lol

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...psdf4b5fb8.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ps52d6a065.jpg

I went to have nine installed and the shop told me the A/C compressor has to come off on my 02 4.4. They said they managed to get a wrench on it but it was stuck on. They said a two day job.

I'm going to wait until I change the water pump in the spring and I will have them take everything off the front of the engine and do it then. I don't want to work on the cars anymore or I would do it.

Funny story, I went to open the box at the shop...on the box it said handle with care. These are put together a certain way that the plunger stays in. Well I dropped it and the plunger dropped out and it went in pieces. The picture is after I dropped it and you notice it's longer than the box and wont fit back in. They returned that and I have a new one ready to go. I use an independent shop and he used to work for BMW. He buys aftermarket German parts that BMW uses.
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q...psa41d41f2.jpg

Please post if you were able to do it without taking the A/C compressor off.

I watched this 540 video. No compressor movement. I just looked at my X. Looks like the compressor is not in the way.

BMW E39 540i M62 Timing Chain Tensioner Replacement - YouTube

I plan to try in the next week so I'll post my results when
I do.

Is there a DIY for replacing the timing chain guides? I know it's a helluva job since the entire front of the engines needs to be removed...lol!

Did it come with a new O-ring seal?

No it didn't.....guess I should order one.

I read the dealer and independent shops don't want to do the job once the chains go and look for used engines. I've also read posts of 4k to do the job.

If you search YouTube your bound to find someone who did this on another car like a 7 series with the sane engine.

Interesting thread, seems like a great preventative.

The gasket for the tensioner is the same exact part as the drain plug washer. I have 4 :D

I posted a link to a video.

He wanted to see how to replace the timing chains guides DIY.

My bad, to atone, I found one.
Militos Mobil BMW 740 Oil Timing Chain Guide Auto Repair Chicago - YouTube

My car is at the dealer to get the defective door handles replaced. I asked for an estimate to replace the lower timing chain tensioner and they said $225...I said go ahead. I guess you can get to this buy just removing the air cleaner and it's located above the a/c compressor.

They had one in stock and were familiar with it like they replace them all the time. I have to find out more of how often they replace them.

good thead,don,t forget that the m62[4.4,4.6is] 00' to 03 have one timing chain and one tensioner and the n62 [4.4,4.8is]04' to 06' have two timing chains and two tensioner.
I went through this on my 4.6is what a fu=kin mess.I just gave up.
I have the 4.8is 06' love the x5 ,but I have my heads up for repairs '
I seen the vanos video ,wish I seen that before............good oil makes a big difference..

Hi , your 4.8is[n62] has two tensioners and two timing chains.keep running good oil.

I follow the preventive maintenance model for severe vehicle mileage. I change the oil (Mobil One) every 12-13 months or approx 3,000 miles. Lots of short distance trips (less than 6 - 50 miles), followed by a run around the interstate with a heavy foot. All the fliuds are getting replaced this winter (49K) as I have another vehicle or two to use when weather sucks or have a meeting where safe parking will be an issue.
The X5 sits outside with a Battery tender on her and lots of Wax. One very clean 4x4 beast.

I'm googling "n62 rattle noise" and I ended up here on the topic of chain guides again!

I posted a bit about the N62 chain guides previously on this forum. They did update the guides on that engine as well, and I can tell you that I had bits of plastic in my oil pan from them, and so they do fail on the valvetronic N62 engine as well!

I did end up replacing both sides in the end - heads off on the side that needed it to get the chain guide off, and head off on the other side as well 'cause it seemed stupid not to do the stem seals and secondary air whatsits at the same time.

some pics here:

http://www.xoutpost.com/948285-post16.html

Now, anyone know why my engine has an intermittent rattle from around the alternator area? It seems like it could be the idler pulley. i hope so! waiting to cool down to see. It sounds *bad*.

The timing chains guides break due to age and have zero to do with wear...very scary. Guys here have broken guides and only know it...I did and found it when I changed the valve cover gasket.

I have the same noise still, it's the vanos losing oil pressure from a bad seal. Beisan Systems - Procedures - M62TU Vanos Procedure

I'm going to post pictures of my guides that look new but broke because of defective material at 85k. I have an 2002.

Every timing chain guide repair also needs the vanos rebuilt no matter what.

Mine is N62 and has the cam-spocket type vanos adjuster unit, which is actually a reliable unit and I have searched and have never heard of a failure. I guess your M62 vanos units are the same as the M54 6cyl engine - those that require a rebuild with new teflon sealing rings & o-rings.