Oil Catch Can project
 

Hey, I'm looking at adding a "Oil Catch Can" in line to help collect some of the emulsified oil/goo/sludge, that likes to form in our current PCV/oil separator system. There are some pretty knowledgeable people on this board who may have already done so. Your input and ideas are always welcomed.

Our Current system seems to have a high failure rate with multiple failure modes. In addition to the standard cold weather protocol, I'm also exploring a way to make our system more "service friendly." I would like a way to monitor it more closely. I know what causes the cheese whiz, (driving habits and and ambient conditions, etc), but I would like to be able to clean and/or replace the valves with out having to access a very difficult location on our M54's. Maybe a remote set-up on the fender wall? I know German Auto Solutions has had one in the works for several years now, but no product for release that I know of.

Edit: Just talked to German Auto Solutions. I will most likely be Beta testing their CCV Replacement product sometime in February if all goes as planned.;)Product will be bench tested first and then to beta testing.

I've been reading and pouring through threads all over the place about the CCV, or Oil Seperator system found on the BMW M54 engine (I-6). Not the easiest thing to wrap your head around on understanding the dynamics involved with the CCV, but I'm starting to understand that we don't have to live with its temperamental nature.

I have two M54's to watch over during the year, and more closely in the winter. I live in an unusally cold climate due to a geographic phenomenon called an "inversion". We were colder than the North Pole for two straight weeks last year.

If anyone wants to help or have input, feel free. You guys are great.

The following thread discusses catch can. Note there is another thread link in this thread:
http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...catch-can.html

If you haven't already read them.

I know G.A.S has been working on the design for awhile now. Doru has poked them once in a while for update on bimmerfest E39 sub-forum :D

Subscribed. I get a pit in my gut every time I think of the sludge I see when pulling the dipstick or removing the 7l0 cap. My wife is the primary driver of the X5, and makes a lot of short, short trips, under 5 miles. The maintenance history that came with the car shows it's sucked oil into the intake at least twice in the past. And I sit on pins and needles...

Davintosh,
I thought I was the only one with a 710 cap.:bustingup

Yeah, I know the feeling perfectly. I have switched over to "depends for men" because I'm afraid I'll lose control of all my bodily functions upon hearing the motor belch and hydro-lock with oil.

I have my wife trained well in her X3. I make her take the long way home and when it's good and warmed up, "give it a good lil spank'n" if you know what I mean.

I have one in the e46 (m54) and will be installing the same one/setup on the e53 (m54). This diagram is exactly what I followed and works amazing. My 330 was loosing oil. That ALL stopped once this was installed. Also the frequency you have to empty it, is not often. Actually I have yet to empty the one in the e46 since there isnt anything really to empty.
http://www.diymybmw.com/e46/wp-conte...df02d20b32.jpg

Link to tank I'm using: Godspeed Universal Racing Oil Catch Can Tank Oil Reservoir Tank Silver Color : Amazon.com : Automotive

I bought some heavier duty hose (nothing crazy) and again its been working great.

BTW you do NOT want a vented catch tank. Our motors must maintain crankcase vacuum

https://www.mann-hummel.com/fileadmi...nt_en_2013.pdf

The 100 series.

Edit: I only suggest this if your crankcase pressure is higher than normal due to modification. Otherwise, the OE design works fine when maintained properly.

Dragon, looking forward to your beta testing and hopefully helping to get the GAS system to market!

When it does come to fruition id love to install Gary's solution, he does his shit complete with no shortcuts, and I'm sure it would be a very sleek looking setup when installed. When he releases it, I'll be one of the first customers, as peace of mind with the CCV is very important to me, and I'll also buy his DISA kit at the same time (I currently just have the new o ring)

With 71k on my X I have no records of CCV replacement, no paste thankfully. I replaced the oil filler cap last year and no mayo. My commute is just about 20 miles of highway driving so I'm right on the cusp of it being enough to not have condensate buildup. The last couple days worried me with the 0F temps, but I'm fortunate nothing bad happened.

Would like peace of mind for future winters however, I plan on having this X for years to come.

where do you mount this catch can and does it still remove moisture like the factory unit?

Now we're talk'n. I knew you guys have been holding out on me. :drunk:

J.Belknap, did you run the mann-hummel CCV on your ride? I like the depth load filter they're using. I'd say that's a damn good option.

acpstunts, That's right on the money to where I was headed. Are there any draw backs to getting rid of the CCV entirely with your set up? I'm with you on running a closed system. I understand that if you vent to atmosphere you can induce ring flutter on the pistons due to pressure differentials, etc. NOT GOOD! Snap some pics of your E53 install and let us know how it goes.

RB, German Auto Solutions is the diggy bomb. I will be getting their Disa kit, Vanos seals, and Rad-Cap. If they approve me as a Beta tester for their unit, its gonna get a test at 8,000ft at Peter Sinks. It hits upwards of negative 60's (F) at times up there. It ranks as one of the coldest places on earth...... the worst place for a failure, but the best place to test it. My last X5 saw -46F and handled it like a champ. All in all, I'm a prime candidate for a failure due to my short trips to campus, with very little highway time. I just drive around burning fuel and making special high heat/speed runs out in BFE in an attempt to burn some damn cheese.

Peter Sinks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's a Pic of the micro-station and elevation profile.

Wow dude your "station" looks like mother Russia.

I think you are definitely the top candidate to test the CCV kit!

I agree with JB the Mann Hummel pro vent unit is great, and top quality, im just not too big a fan of hacking up hoses for a custom job. VW guys use Mann hummels on their cars with great results though, to help with the carbon buildup from direct injection.

Tell Gary I said hi, and although he probably doesn't need a second tester, if he wants another one I'll gladly do a test in moderate Jersey climate lol!

I'm going to have the Supercharger serviced in ~15k more miles. At that time I plan to switch to the ProVent.

Don't think of it as hacking up hoses but rather adapting them to hoses that fit the ProVent. In any case, this shouldn't be used to band-aid an underlying problem. The PCV system and crankcase pressures I have are a little different, but maybe this could help you guys. What's nice is that it keeps the system as it was meant to be, while incorporating good stuff like filtering medium and a safety valve.

I have a little cheese under the fill cap in my new-to-me M54 E53; OEM CCV valve/hoses were replaced as part of the pre-purchase repairs done. Count me in for interest in the German Auto Solutions [Gary?] aftermarket solution. With mine having a recent replacement, not a pressing issue for me, but certainly worth consideration.

here is My Catch Can project ….
i did purchase a Reducer from Home Depot and clamps to secure the hoses

Hope this helps your Mod…



if anything…heres my Mod List

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...-here-she.html

I posted something a while back in another thread about a Schmiedmann gadget...

... and it looks like they are now in stock, and even on sale. With shipping to the US the cost is $76. I might order one, just to have a semi-ready to go kit. The only thing that keeps me from doing it is wondering whether the catch can will actually remove moisture from the CCV system or just collect oil from it. After all, the problem is with condensed moisture in the crankcase.

From your sig pic I'm guessing you have a turbo on your engine; is that the reason your crankcase pressure is higher than normal? Do you have any info on how that ProVent is plumbed in?

This video and a few more on this guy's channel may be helpful. I am interested in this too, as I think my PCV is shot on my 318 and the X5 has had the PCV replaced twice.

Intresting; looks like he replaced the factory CCV with a cheapo PCV and a catch can. Also interesting that he mentioned installing an air/water separator. I might have to look into that.

FWIW, here is an excellent thread on the stock CCV system; normal operation, testing, and replacement. Well worth the time to read and understand how the system is supposed to work before going to the bother of replacing or modifying it.

How to test the BMW E39 pressure-controlled crankcase ventilation system (CCV)? - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums

Anyone have a PN for the inline pcv valve he was using?

nvm he replied to my youtube comment with all part #s

I'm starting to understand how this all works.

Can somebody give a link to a baffled catch can like in the video? All the eBay ones I see are very simple without any baffles, which won't really aid in recovering oil and water gunk from the crankcase. Or does the air/water separator before the catch can function well enough that the eBay style cans work?

From what I've read, most people make their own baffles or put some coarse steel wool inside. In the video that was linked earlier the guy mentioned using a water/oil separator; a big enough separator might do the job of a catch can as well. Something like this one maybe?
Moisture Separator for Eastwood Pressure Blasters

I'm staying tuned in for the GAS serviceable CCV that Green Dragon is testing. Looking forward to doing a yearly CCV cleaning as opposed to ripping apart my engine bay to replace it every couple years.

Ditto that. Similar filter/collection devices are a very common add-on in the Ford 7.3L diesel community. I'm not too worried, as my OEM CCV set up was replaced at 81k miles pre-purchase, but the G.A.S. kit sounds like it could be a winner.

I've been doing some more thinking (uh-oh...) on this problem, and it seems to me the biggest problem is when the valve freezes and causes oil from the dipstick tube to get sucked into the intake. In reading through the records on my X5, that's happened twice in its history; a mess I really, really, really don't want to have to deal with.

There are other symptoms that point to a problem with the CCV system, but IMO the oil-to-the-intake failure mode is the worst that can happen; getting the system to work as it's designed while avoiding the worst-case scenario is probably the ultimate solution. That would keep the vehicle from being disabled and allow some time to diagnose and deal with the problem.

So, if I'm going to modify the system to avoid this scenario, might the best solution be something to keep the oil from being drawn up from the dipstick tube? Maybe route the drain hose to another location that isn't submerged in the oil sump... Or put a check valve in it to keep the oil from flowing upstream... Or put a catch can between the CCV and the dipstick tube with a vacuum-operated valve that only allows oil to flow back to the crankcase when the engine is off.

Personally, I like that last option best. Any others I'm missing?

From what I gathered, most are neglecting to replace the dipstick guide tube with the cold weather (single walled and eliminated the double wall design) version that came out around 2008/09 or so, as evidenced in the SIB from March 2009:

http://chrisparente.com/Images/530/CCV-SIB110803.pdf

I have seen a lot of threads about updating the CCV to cold weather version, and cold weather hoses, but not many threads about also including to utilize the cold weather dipstick tube on their install, in CONJUNCTION with the insulated valve/hoses.

My guess is that most are looking to get their X back on the road quickly with the least possible cost, and spending $140 on the cold weather dipstick tube is not cheap, it is nearly the cost of the entire Cold weather CCV valve and hoses in itself.

But clearly, BMW came out with the cold weather updated dipstick tube for a reason, and it states in the SIB that if the cold weather valve and hoses are already installed, to only install the new guide tube, they must work together to keep the system functioning properly.

Personally I ordered the cold weather tube with my new insulated CCV and hoses and will be doing the complete job in the coming weeks. Wish me luck.

:iagree: I don't recall reading a post where someone installed the entire cold cure, including the dipstick 2-3 years ago and not had a problem since, did you find anything along that order?

I'll have to dig through the threads to see if I can find it, I don't remember on this forum recently as I've only been here a bit over 2 years. I got the SIB and parts list with dipstick guide tube from "killcrap", a resident tech on our forums here, his post was probably about 3-4 years back.

So with his posting, and then finding the SIB, I think I have found out why some continue to have problems after replacing to Cold Weather CCV kit, as the cold climate dipstick tube is not listed on RealOEM (I checked), and unless you have stumbled on a posting about it, or have the SIB I posted, one might neglect it in their repairs.

This is a picture of the E39 cold weather dipstick tube, but it is similar design to the E53, just different part number. You can see how much larger the orifice in the tube is when trying to return the oil from the bottom of the CCV to the oil pan.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...1&d=1302707114

Thanks, RB; I didn't realize the dipstick tube was such a key part of the cold weather kit. Makes me wonder what was changed in that update... Is there a way to tell if the one installed is the new or old? I dug through the maintenance history on our X5 and found a note from March of 2008 where the shop, "Installed heated intake manifold, newer dipstick and modified stick tube," when the owner reported an oil leak and smoke from the engine bay. I'm guessing it's the new tube, but there's no part number listed so it's just a guess. Do you know of any photos of the old style that might be lurking around? I've looked & came up with about nothin.

If it was the new tube that was installed, it's not a panacea; the valve cover, gasket, oil separator & hoses, and the alternator were replaced on mine again in Feb. 2012. :(

I'd think it would be tough to tell as prob the shape is the same. It's the internal drain which looks different as far as I can tell.

My ecs order containing my parts shipped out today so when I do this repair I will take a pic of old dipstick tube next to the new, to see if there are any visual changes.

In any event like has been mentioned, for long term use in cold weather it's best to avoid short trips and run the engine hotter if can be. I find myself keeping the car in 4th gear on the highway on the drive home from work so she is nice and warm when I get home :)

Cross your fingers I make it out to work and back ok tomorrow, I had intended to park the X until doing my CCV but the wife has a meeting tomorrow and I have to take my own car to work.

So any updates on the catch can experiments going on with this thread?

I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on a can and give a try, but i would like some more long term feeback on it pleeeease??


:)

I`m in the same boat now. just bypass the the valve and install catch can or is there something I`m missing?

I will get in touch with G.A.S. to see whats going on with their Serviceable CCV kit beta test. I have not heard from them in a while. I see if I can put some heat under them to move on the project. When I spoke to Gary during the winter, he acknowledged that they were behind the eight-ball on the project. I will update this soon.

As far as a catch-can project, there is a multitude of information on other forums. Spend some time reading. If you want to give it a shot, don't go with a catch can that vents to atmosphere. With the M54, it been reported this can cause ring flutter. It must be closed system so that pressures/vacuums are balanced. If it wasn't for the German Auto Solutions kit possibly near completion, I would have implemented a catch-can already.

thx for the reply greendragon, I see some catch cans around that have 2 lines going to top of catch can and a clear hose along side of it so you can tell how much oil it is collecting. I was wondering if you need some type of small pcv attached to it. like the older chevs had on top of the valve covers?

GD, thanks for following up with G.A.S. I'm not having CCV trouble [replacement done before I bought mine], but am ready to go on this as a preventive measure, given the M54s' history on this issue.

Guys I wish Doru would chime in here.

He basically talked to Gary over the winter and knows why it is such an undertaking as far as ring flutter and such goes with vaccuum in the crankcase of the M54, which is why the G.A.S. solution to the CCV is taking much longer than most anticipated.

I hope he sees the thread because he explained it all to me over the winter and I don't have the old message.

I havnt had any real issues with the CCV (until this winter, i just cleaned the valves, still gotta find time to replace em).

Will your results from the addition of the ProVent differ from 'normal' engine applications?

if I use the above catch can method I shouldn`t get any piston ring flutter is that right?

Looks like a good setup, now I am debating getting a catch can, hose and a couple fittings from this company and having a serviceable setup as opposed to the cold weather kit on my workbench.

Oil Catch Cans

I don't think you'd have ring flutter, as basically the catch can is replacing the CCV and you aren't introducing more vaccuum in the crankcase since having the catch can is keeping it a closed design.

This catch can really looks amazing, and totally serviceable:

Ultimate Oil Catch Can

http://www.42draftdesigns.com/assets...timatecc04.jpg

I had my ccv fail this winter so I have to do something about it before next winter, and I think the oil catch can would be fail proof.
those catch cans look awsome by the way, expensive compared to other catch cans out there.

They really are gorgeous, however the only thing I'm wondering about is adding a check line or a PCV valve on the intake port inlet side, I've been reading and it looks like you might need a one-way check valve so that the intake side doesn't get too overloaded with vaccuum. I have no confirmations on that.

But altogether it seems simple, take the hose off the "S" hose from the CCV and attach 3/4" hose to it and run the intake side to one inlet, and then take off the hose and keep the fitting for the VCG and run that hose to the other inlet. Cap the dipstick tube, mount it and call it a day.

If someone could confirm whether we need any check valves if doing this it would probably be very helpful to me, I'd much rather have a serviceable can than a CCV that gets clogged up.

heres a homemade set up with pcv valve from a 85 pick up
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=431442

I guess I have two questions with this:

1) Are there any negative repurcussions to venting the intake to the catch can with no check valve in line? (I.E. take both connections at the distribution piece and run them to the one inlet on the catch can)

2) It seems too easy to just run the valve cover to one inlet, and the intake side to the other inlet and let it collect and periodically drain, if it was this easy don't you think it would be a well documented alternative to the CCV and someone like German Auto Solutions would have already came out with one for our cars?

maybe using a catch = more pollution compared to the the oem ccv system. thats all I can think the difference would be.

That would only be more pollution if it was a VTA (vent to atmosphere), but with the ones i've been showing they are closed recirculating systems

I like these catch cans ,what do you think? High Performance Universal Racing Engine OIL Catch Tank CAN Filter | eBay

I like the 42 draft designs ones I linked earlier. They make an economy version for about 130. I would only buy wrinkle black so it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb in the engine bay

I would definately get black no matter what.

what do you guys think about this oil catch can?
NEW OIL Catch Tank CAN Aluminum Universal 1L Reservoir Round Black Filter JDM | eBay

or this one Universal RED Aluminum 750ml OIL Catch Breather Tank Reservoir With Vacuum Gauge | eBay

Just get the proven quality of the BFI unit I posted, it's made well and made here in the USA

:iagree:

I`m going to use this pcv on intake side with my catch can. threaded part goes towards intake away from catch can.

update ccv gone oil catch installed with pcv valve shown in above pick .took on highway for about an 1/2 or so no codes and engine runs nice and smooth. will keep you updated on this experiment. will keep an eye on oil levels and hoses colapsing (which they shouldn`t I have reenforced them for that issue).

heres what I did diffwerent in pic.

I followed this video

She is running smooth? What do you mean by reinforced the hoses?

Where did you mount the can? If you can take a pic that would be great, I have the cold weather CCV parts on my workbench but I am seriously considering doing this if its more reliable and easily serviceable.

Just re-read the Bimmerforums post, is it really this easy?

-Plug the port on the dipstick tube

-connect VC to catch can outlet, slightly uphill to catch can if possible

-connect hose to the PCV with Y pipe connection from air distributor piece (should I cap off one of the air distributor connections?)

-Take that hose to inlet of catch can with Purolater PV1050 PCV check valve in line before the can to limit vaccuum to the intake

-Remove/cap off CCV as needed


Is that it????? And I can drain the can in winter easily without fear of hydrolock? Doru can you chime in here?

I didn`t cap off ccv as it is no longer used. I have lots of vacuum now ,barely had any before. some guys out there using this set up have over 40000 miles with no issues.
connect hose to the PCV with Y pipe connection from air distributor piece (should I cap off one of the air distributor connections?) no need all your doing is cutting the hose off the y connector and installing the 5/8 hose from catch, pcv (Purolator PV1050
-O'Reilly Auto/Microguard PCV345
-FRAM FV345 & FV345DP
-BWD Auto PCV358
-Napa Item MPF39358 or CRB29358) to it. ( I used the fram fv345 from maslack, $8.00)
this set up is really simple. (too simple) .
the only thing I don`t know about this set up is if it would pass emissions test. I live in northern ont so we don`t have to worry about emissions up here. I would think it would pass as this is a non vented catch can.
and for all your other questions your right on.
I used heater hose and from vacuum on the 5/8 hose it would collapse so I went to home depot and bought some 3/8 id x 1/2 od solid plastic white hose and fit it inside the heater hose so there is know way it can collapse now with vacuum pressure. (I wanted to keep my hoses all black for cosmetic reasons. and rubber hoses are easier to go over the plastic fittings like the y connector which you don`t want to break and also the 90 dergree connector you have to cut so its straight to install the 3/4" hose to it from catch can.)
she is running smooth meaning no change in the way the engine ran before with the stock ccv .

heres some pics (I didn`t feel like taking everything apart again ,I hope this helps ya out to make things a bit clearer.) my son in training :D

it would be a nicer install using the catch can you suggested as you wouldn`t have to use a down sizer on the vc 3/4 hose . but I`m happy with this set up so far will keep all you guys updated .I`m at 205000km on the 3.0i as we speak. this winter will be the big test for this system .

Wow that's a nice setup! Is the other hose at the distributor snaked under the manifold and then out to the catch can then?

yes I snaked the 5/8 hose from distributor under intake manifold up to catch can .(at first I didn`t think there was gonna be enough room, but there was a clear spot there to run the hose without interfering with any wires or hoses and took about a minute or so to feed it ,super easy). it came out close to the power steering reservoir. I did get the cheapo catch can but I think it looks good under the hood to me anyways. .
did you notice the hose connector going to vc I reused it and just cut off the 90 degree angle on it.

when I get a chance this week I will take a closer pic at where I installed the L shaped bracket to catch can. the L shaped bracket is about 1/8 thick. I got it from work what we use for seat cushions on wheel chairs.

Thanks for all the info I will be monitoring your posts closely from here on out to see how it does long term!

I have all the cold weather CCV parts on my workbench that I bought over winter because I wasn't sure my car would make it through winter once the temps hit 0 degrees and that high pitched whine it would make when cold until it was warmed up, including the cold weather dipstick guide tube which many forget about when using the cold weather CCV kit.

I'm going to use the stock parts for now but if I find that it starts failing a couple years from now and you still have good results I will not replace with a stock setup again and will use your setup as a guide to do a catch can on mine.

After the 1st CCV failed in -60°F temps, I still have the WHOLE winter CCV setup working OK since February 2008. So, here is a testimony that the new dipstick guide works. That's on a M54B30 engine.

Catch can or CCV is the question....

I am still holding off on the catch can idea. There 2 (maybe 3) points of interest in this whole setup that put brakes on this project:

1. Low tension piston rings. Apparently A properly functioning pressure control valve is designed to maintain a slight vacuum (approximately 10 - 15 mbar ) in the crankcase which assures reliable crankcase venting during all engine operating conditions (this s very important)
2. A properly functioning crankcase valve. A PCV valve might not pull the trick. The PCV valve will open at a preset pressure and stay open until the pressure drops. Meaning that it can allow higher than 10-15 mbar? One could replace the OEM CCV unit with a Mann-Hummel unit, which has basically the SAME specs as the OE BMW CCV. The Mann-Hummel unit comes in 2 different flavors and each flavor has different sizes meant for different engine displacements. The 1,000,000 $ question is: will this unit also freeze? (Same principle / different design).
3. You have to stick with the SAME (or sensibly close) inner ID of the plumbing (it will wreck havoc with the required engine vacuum). I am still thinking on ways how to approach the CCV issue, and every time I thought I found the answer, I came to screeching halt by unforeseen issues. Maybe this is why Gary has trouble launching his CCV. For consistent inner ID, I found the OEM clamps sold separately, which in turn can accommodate the correct hoses for plumbing. I purchased a set from this source from E-bay . Here are some pics:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNj...St5Eh/$_57.JPG

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNj...St5Eo/$_57.JPG

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNj...St5FN/$_57.JPG

those connectors from that ebay listing were NOT correct for my application ( N62 V8 ). The quick disconnect size was just slightly too small and just broke :(

might have been a bad run from the factory and that's why they are on ebay! never know

To help the CCV last longer, and also the engine, while using the OE CCV setup, here is what I do (we have really long & cold winters):

1. Once the temps drop below freezing have a cardboard placed in front of the radiator
2. After the car is started, turn the heating off, turn Test #7 on to see the KTMP. Drive until the KTMP reaches 85°C (or better, if you can hold on). KTMP will climb really fast with the heater core turned off. Once you have more than 85°C, you can turn on the cabin heat. You will see a 10°C sudden temp drop (or better), but the bulk of coolant reached higher temps, and it will warm up really fast
3. have the vehicle garaged at all times if you can help it during the cold months. I have a garage, and at work it's parked in an underground parkade, which helps a lot.

I'm on the same cold climate CCV (including re-designed dipstick guide) since February 2008. I will prolly need a new kit soon (preventative) - I don't think that rubber membrane of the CCV lasts forever. But only 2 or 3 years out of a CCV is too short.

Dorin THANK YOU for chiming in here, I know you know this engine very well, and I also suspected Gary @ GAS was stalling his project because of issues related to crankcase vaccuum as well. 2 very good tips for winter btw!

I will have to think about the cardboard in front of radiator or at least turning off the cabin heat until the coolant is warm, great idea (the latter I probably will do for sure). I also agree that if you are running on 6 years on the OEM cold weather CCV then that is good lifespan, my valve just might be original on my car so it is way overdue for replacement, but I think the key here is if you do the OEM CCV cold weather kit, don't forget the cold weather dipstick tube, as many do forget about it!

Dorin: Thanks for the tips, and for the vote of confidence in the OEM Cold Climate CCV kit. My X5 also has the updated kit, and so far, so good, with two winters under our belts. I have cheese under the 710 cap and sometimes on the dipstick when checking oil, so I need to address that, but am very thankful we haven't had the oil-sucking-into-the-intake problem. It's happened at least twice on our vehicle to previous owners.

I've been watching this thread and debating whether to dive into the mod or not; I would like to go with something like the remote mounted CCV kit that's been discussed, just so it can be easily cleaned out, and also would like to see about adding something that would remove water vapor from the crankcase, but knowing you've had success with the OE kit is encouraging.

I have used the cardboard trick in the past on other vehicles, but wasn't sure how the X5 would react to it. The other trick of keeping the heater off until the engine warms up is something I do, but it'll be a tough sell with my wife; her first move when climbing into a cold car is to crank up the heat, never mind the fact that it creates a wind-chill effect inside. :dunno:

The only "serviceable" CCV would be the Mann-Hummel one, which costs a tad more. The issue I have with it, are these 2:

1. Where would you mount it? if you mount it in the same spot the OEM CCV is located, it defeats it's purpose - you can't clean the filter element, because it's not accessible. To mount it somewhere else, you get into the intricacy of plumbing. What I mean by that, sure it's easy to place it somewhere around the left strut mount, but routing the vent hoses might be an issue if you will work down the road on an unrelated issue.
2. Looking at the valve, it seems like it's very similar to the OE one. If this is the case, they would last similarly time-wise. Here is a link, where they have a dissected view - you might need to scroll to find it.

Here is a pdf brochure of these filters. You need the Provent 150.

Having the mayo visible on the dipstick or on the oil cap is not good. When you see it one has 3 alternatives:

1. Once you reach operating temps, put the car in tiptronic, and downshift, driving close to 3000 rpm's for 10-15 mins (do 2-3 stints). This is if you don't have a highway close by, and you're stuck in city driving (you won't break the speed limit)
2. Warm her up, then do an oil change. This is if the above method has failed, due to a high mayo contamination of the CCV - the mayo "might" not come out, but it's an honest effort to chase it out with some fresh oil. Chance are 50/50 (my theory)
3. Do nothing and pray you will be OK (slim chances).

The quick warm-up method works best, combined with tiptronic downshifting and driving at higher rpm's. This can be during the work-home commute, no problem. And you don't have to do it every day.

0.02

I did something similar on the last oil change this spring; I took it for a long drive, city and highway (it's a manual, so driving at ~70 mph has the engine speed at about 3500 rpm) to make sure the engine was at operating temp. Just before draining though, I added a half can of Sea Foam to the crankcase and let it idle for a few minutes, hoping it would help remove any remaining moisture, and hoping it would help melt any remaining cheese. I didn't see any since then, but then again we took it on vacation last month & put about 2000 miles on it. It's about due for another oil change, and I'll probably do the same treatment. I've read though that even after the most thorough attempts at getting all the cheese out, there is usually some remaining under the valve cover in the little nooks & crannies; the only way to get it all is to disassemble and manually clean. I might do that some day, maybe when I feel the need to tackle the VANOS reseal, but not today.

I still think there ought to be some way to get an air/water separator inline with one of the CCV pipes, or maybe a canister with some kind of desiccant in it. I know the best way to keep the cheese at bay is getting the thing good and hot on a regular basis, but as long as we live where we do, and my wife is the primary driver of the thing, it's just not going to happen.

my driving is like less then 15 min per trip each way to work and all city driving about 60km/h .this is why I went with catch can .I`m experimenting with it and see how it goes. I just didn`t like the idea of there being a hose hooked up to the dipstick tube which allows a ton of oil into your intake if the ccv fails like it did to me this winter. (hydro-locked my engine and had about 1 liter of oil left in it,not good,glad I noticed oil smell in the house in time and ran out and shut down the x5). just got back from a 6 hr trip the day before this happened ,so I didn`t get stranded, it was idling in driveway.

update no more yellow stuff on dipstick end and oil fill cap (disappeared) since changing over to catch can.
also here are a couple more pics.

put about 500km on this oil catch can setup ,haven`t loss a drop of oil there fore not burning any oil at all,no codes and engine running very quiet and smooth ,no loss of performance at all.I will post here every now and again if anyone is interested?

Thanks for the updates Puddinboo! Haven't heard anything from the guys at G.A.S. I plan on having an install completed by October on both the X5 and x3 with something.

I`m going to keep testing it through the winter months and see how it goes,like keeping an eye on any mayo build up(which at the moment is completely gone since going to catch can). also just changed my spark plugs and they were nice and dry, no oil on them which is a good sign. In the future if all goes well I would like to get a a different catch can with fittings on it the same size as the fittings on the valve cover hose(3/4). less hose connections and would be even a much cleaner look.

UPDATE AT 207000KM 1/4" of mayo+water in bottom of catch can when I emptied it today. most of the mayo could be left overs from the previous ccv ,because there is still no mayo on oil fill cap.will be checking monthly through out the winter months (may have to bring in catch can to thaw though.)

So the crankcase is only vented through the dipstick tube?

the dipstick tube outlet where it would connect to the ccv is plugged (not vented) thats a huge issue when the ccv freezes and sucks oil into the intake which happened to me last winter and hydro locked my engine and thats the reason for catch can. so my setup is not vented.

Few comments:
- Catch can will collect alot of moisture during the winter months as it will be the 'cold sink' in this setup acting as a condenser.
- Your hoses are not rated for oil resistance and will swell/degrade at different rates so pay attention to them over time.
- Should pass emissions depending on the amount of oil-vapor carryover there is though the system. The BMW system uses small orifices and a cyclone style separator.
- Too much vacuum could pull combustion gasses past the rings at low load and dissolve away the oil film leading to premature ring wear.

-actually the hoses should be fine now as I have changed them to heavy duty hydraulic hoses.
-I was planning on more frequent catch can changes this winter.(I will be keeping a close eye on it.)
-my exhaust right now after the hydro lock is still burning out the old oil from exhaust so probally won`t pass emissions ,but in northern ont we don`t have any testing up here.(I`m not losing oil)
-for pulling combustion gases past the rings ,I don`t mind taking my chances on it ,compared to a totally failed engine. at least now I can keep an eye on it and theres no way oil can get sucked up from the dipstick tube into the intake.

Ok I always thought both the head and block needs ventilation, not meaning venting to atmosphere but vacuum to put out gases. My old honda and Audi both had the head and block running to a Y connector then into the oil catch can then to the intake manifold with a check valve inline. Almost everything I'm seeing online on running a catch can on the m54 doesn't show anything about a vacuum line connected to the block

the BMW M54 is a different breed of engine though?

I know the m54 is different but I thought all engines no matter what type need to have vacuum to pull out blow-by from the head and block

I can`t answer the question as I`m not the designer of this engine, so I don`t know how they work 100%, I know from reading you can`t use a vented catch can as it causes piston ring flutter , and must use a non vented catch can.

The block and head are interconnected through the timing chain/belt cavity on most engines. I don't want to say all, since I've not seen all of them. With that said, it is better to remove as close to the source as possible and multiple points have less restrictions.

Ok I saw a video on YouTube and the guy took the line coming off by the vanos and ran that to a catch can and back to the intake manifold

reason for me putting catch can on I live in canada where it gets very cold, and even putting a new ccv system in, there is still a possibility of a failure. just because of the hose thats connected to the oil dipstick. If I lived in arizona I wouldn`t even worry about it as much.

I think ring flutter is when the head has more vacuum than the crankcase

well were starting to get into the cold weather months and i`m starting to see some water and mayo in the catch can and oil fill cap. reason being is I only drive 15 min to and from work. I might try driving once a month for an hr and half to heat up the engine and get rid of the moisture these engines produce. this weekend coming I will empty my catch can as it is a 1/4 full of water and sludge. by the way I have 207000km on the engine, so about 2000km on the catch can and engine is purring away with no codes .

catch can during the winter months is almost always gonna have "mayo" in it

I`ll just have to keep an eye on it and empty it regularly then. I guess its better to go into the catch can than back into the engine though.which would be how the original would work. at least now when I check my oil I have no mayo on the oil dipstick like I did before.

well emptied catch can about 1/4 full, 90% water 10% mayo, and no mayo on the oil fill cap or dipstick tube . and right now we are seeing -40c weather and the x5 is running strong. and also I never had to add oil either.

Thanks for the update! Even though I'm no longer driving an X5, the oil usage and cheese problem isn't limited to the M54B30. M54B25 in my e46 325i is showing cheese on the oil cap and uses (what I think is) way too much oil. I've been thinking of replacing the CCV on it, but may just do this mod instead. It's got to be less costly, and that's always a good thing.

I lost all of my confidence in the bmw ccv with this engine,so I will never go back to it.I definately don`t like how the ccv system is hooked into the lower part of the dipstick tube. almost a year ago is when I had a hydrolocked engine because of the ccv failure ,sucking oil from the crankcase through the lower dipstick tube hose.

emptied catch at 209500km today and again only 1/4 full hardley any mayo and mostley water.

This is one of the things on my to-do list. Also going to do NBT retrofit, get the updated shifter, as well as general maintenance. FYI this winter I swapped M1 0W-40 (this is before I got the notice of the new product releases, one of which being OW-40 >.<) and I cant really say anything regarding CCVs (haven't really had any issues, knock on wood) but performance wise I would say for cold weather the 0W-40 might help some. Again not sure if it'll do anything with CCV issues but who knows.

5w 40 working well for me .

So, I've been getting used to the X5, and it's been absurdly cold (for here, at least) - hovering in the -10 to 10F range for the last week.

On purchase, I noted a little mayo under the oil filler cap. After I did an oil change, it reappeared after about an hour's dive, so I started to worry about the CCV.

After reading this thread and weighing the knowns and unknowns, I went ahead and jumped in head first.

I picked up this air/oil separator: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-85499

It's spec'd for an s52 (which, given that I've had my 96 m3 for 13 years now, I'm familiar with). Therefore, I thought it would work well in this application. In the m3 application, it's designed to work in-line with the CCV system (which I have never had a problem with on the m3). However, like the video and posts in this thread, I decided to just bypass the CCV, insert a PCV inline on the intake side, and use the air/oil separator catch can by itself. The hoses and inlets to the can are all stock diameter, near as I can tell. I re-used the stock connectors off the stock pipes (both the intake and head vent pipes cracked as I pulled the connectors off...more indication this needed to be done, although both were insulated, so I'm guessing this car did have the cold weather kit on it, at least those parts of it).

Install was fairly straightforward - maybe a little too simple, as others have noted. A good amount of water came out of the air distributor when I pulled it off - so it was probably a good thing to address.

However, I do notice that the hose supplied with the kit is collapsing a little. I don't think it's a complete collapse, but it is visible This may explain, hopefully, why I have an abundance of vacuum. As in, turn the engine off, wait a minute, and when the dipstick is pulled there's an audible change of pressure.

Until I get a chance to reinforce these hoses (or pick up heavier duty hoses), will this (apparent) excess vacuum hurt the engine? It's not throwing any codes, and the idle seems to be just fine.

I'll throw some pictures up of the setup eventually - I need to trim the hoses to fit (I have bit of extra length at the moment), but I might just wait until I can source a better hose to use.

thats a nice catch can I like the the drain valve on it. looks nice and clean and not so tall either.plus nice clamp for installing it too.

Thanks, yeah, I was pretty happy with it. Would you be worried about the apparent excess vacuum? Where did you end up sourcing your hoses from?

^ this is basically how I did mine, but with the pcv attached to the out hose iif that makes sense
http://www.diymybmw.com/e46/wp-conte...df02d20b32.jpg

Yeah, that's how I set up mine, as well. I'm still not entirely comfortable with the level of vacuum that the crankcase has now. I went ahead and oriented the Puralator 1050 valve vertically (threads and flow toward intake), thinking that might help, but I don't think it did much, if anything - the dipstick and oil filler cap are still under vacuum after the engine is off. It's not so much I can't pull them off, but it's certainly noticeably more than stock.

That got me looking at how to spec a vacuum level for a PCV. That then led me to finding an adjustable PCV: Dual Flow Adjustable PCV Valve | M/E Wagner Performance Products

There's an inline adapter that would be used for our applications. I'm tempted to try it, even though it is a bit spendy. I really do like the catch can/remote PCV setup over the stock setup. I left the CCV in place, as well as the hoses. There was serious buildup on the hoses, so I can only imagine the state of the CCV itself. So yeah, I like this setup, I'd just like to be able to control the vacuum level a bit more.

Also: picture time! Note: if I had to do it again, I would have not cut the stock 90° fitting on the valve cover like the video linked in this thread. I ended up epoxying one of the reducers that came with the Moroso kit to make this work. I will eventually either buy the stock connector (read: tube) and use another 90° adapter to straighten it out, or buy a bigger section of hose and a reducer.

Also note the vertical orientation of the Puralator PCV (basically looks like just a solid tube of hose clamps in that picture heh). Brass elbows were a Lowes find and worked great (Apollo PAX elbows).

This might not be the final form of the project, but it's a good start, I think (assuming the extra vacuum in the crankcase doesn't have any negative impact...knocking furiously on wood).

theres some tweaking I want to do with mine this summer, which might include changing the catch can.

210000km on BMW put about 5000km on catch as of today, emptied the catch can today and was half full of 90% water and rest sludge. no sludge on dipstick and oil fill cap. I make a lot of short trips, so I think the catch can is doing its job.

Bumping this thread because I had an idea: Why not combine the best of both worlds and if the OEM CCV is working well, why not add a catch can up top, cap the "valve cover return hose" on the CCV, and leave the stock drain, assuming you have the updated dipstick tube.

Take the elbow from the VC hose, route it to the outlet of the catch can (assuming that the catch can will have "filtered" much of the oil mist and condensation out of the return line), and on the inlet side of the can, it would run into an Elbow which would connect to the stock "S-hose" on the M54 CCV, most likely you could cap the port on the intake distribution piece, and leave the smaller return line connected to the distributor.

My idea is coming off JB's recent addition of a ProVent100, I would recommend adding a ProVent in lieu of a catch can if deleting the CCV entirely. But if its working well and you just want to separate any excess moisture or oil mist and have a cleaner return to the crankcase, would this not be a good solution to do so, and have the "best of both worlds"?

I would try to illustrate my thoughts here but RealOEM doesn't let me save diagram pictures on my work comp

EDIT: I just used BavarianE39's photo and tried a crude illustration. The Red "S" illustrates the factory S hose staying in place and working on the stock CCV, only difference is the port on the distributor is capped off (or still used, depending on how you'd want to plumb it) and you run the S-hose/small return line on IM connection to the inlet of the CC, so that some of the oil mist is separated before hitting the CCV itself, make sense or is this truly dumb?

Really tired but will make short post before sleep.

Ideally, you want a few things to happen in a ccv system.

You want the lines to be SHORT and everything to stay HOT. Condensation is the enemy.

Ideally, the cyclonic separator should be first after the valve cover to do the bulk of the separation. Then, on the cyclonic outlet, add the filtered separator. This allows the filtered separator to last longer between filter changes.
Any separator MUST MUST MUST be able to drain oil to the sump otherwise it is a condensation machine. Catch cans that don't drain are, frankly, useless time bombs that accelerate condensation.

The drain line port on the sump (oil pan) should be below standing oil level and ideally as low as possible in the sump.
After all separation is done, THEN you can route to the PCV (required) which routes to the intake.

Since the 6 cyl cyclonic separator and PCV are built as a single unit, proposed secondary filtered separation (that drains to the sump) would have to be before the inlet to the cyclonic separator. The PCV can not be deleted and must be last before connecting to intake.

Going to sleep but will check back tomorrow

FWIW:

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...s-n-stuff.html

Thanks JB for shining insight, ideally yes I know many added catch cans, bypassed the CCV completely with them or even bypassed the whole system and added full vac to crankcase with a PCV inline, etc, but I'm not necessarily a fan of that.

I guess since you have added the ProVent 100 in addition to your stock system and I would be looking to do similar (add secondary filtration), 2 questions come to mind:

1) Is adding a secondary filtration (with a drain back to sump, ProVent100 or similar) redundant in anyway to be used in conjunction with the stock setup? Is it even worth it to be used in line with the OEM Cold Weather CCV on the I6/M54?

2) Would it be more prudent to add a PCV check valve on the inlet line to the ProVent, bypass the OEM CCV completely and utilize a ProVent in its place, with a drain back to the dipstick tube and a return line to the valve cover, similar to OEM plumbing but with a serviceable filtration system, etc?

Yes I am in agreement that catch cans are moisture collectors but at the same token would we not be benefitting from removing the excess moisture collected in the can, assuming that it is better to drain a catch can bi-weekly at most in colder months but not have condensation buildup in the crankcase?



At the end of the day I am way overthinking this, my June 2014 replacement Cold weather CCV and updated dipstick guide tube on my M54 is causing me zero issues. However, if I can get a similar mpg and "peppiness" bump that you got from the ProVent100 I would look into "additions" on the system. I have somewhat reduced consumption since installing, but would like to reduce that further if possible.

Feel free to call me if you want Jason, my # is on FB.

We are both in agreement brother on all of the above, especially about catch cans, I'll let you rest up and feel better. We'll chat privately about this, I feel a ProVent100 added to the OEM setup would be vastly beneficial to M54's, the question is the cleanest way to plumb, mount, and drain (do we add a "T" to the CCV drain line and have 2 drains going to one dipstick guide tube, etc)

Will look at the specs of the 100 and the 150, and start theorizing. With a working cold weather CCV system, I think the ProVent will be a positive to be working in conjunction.

Both drains should be below oil level, BEFORE they tee. If not, pressure will equalize and won't allow for proper draining.

You may have to find or create a port on the sump. Luckily the M62 is provisioned for twin drains RealOEM.com - Online BMW Parts Catalog

One last thought about oil draining... make the drain as short and vertical as you can get but absolutely enter the sump below oil level.

Mishimoto just came out with on for the N54:

http://www.turn14.com/shownews.php?id=4215

just an update on my catch can, it is working great ,but I am upgrading to this baffled catch can,it even has a dipstick to check fluid level which I thought was cool too.
what are your opinions on this one, looks a lot nicer than the other catch can I got and I like the baffled idea.

^Picture would be helpful. Although nowadays people are enjoying the direct PCV connection that BavarianE39 posted last year, very simple and no moisture to collect in the catch can.

oops here ya go a link. Add W1 Black Baffled Universal Aluminum Oil Catch Tank Can Reservoir Tank Ver 1 | eBay

just installed the baffled catch above, a huge improvement not to big or bulky, a lot cleaner looking , like the idea of the dip stick to check level in the can, also how easy it is to unscrew the bottom canister by hand, like an oil filter. its sweet and extremely happy with it.very heavy gage aluminum construction campared to my old catch can.

Just installed my catch can. Here are some pictures for those more visual.
The only thing, it doesn't have an air filter opening on the top. Not sure how bad that is

https://i.ibb.co/Rj3B899/20200320-000659.jpg https://i.ibb.co/vj0ZvCB/20200319-234423.jpg https://i.ibb.co/qm6FkqW/20200319-222108.jpg https://i.ibb.co/rkv5BPf/20200319-222102.jpg https://i.ibb.co/bPDNqh8/20200319-222055.jpg https://i.ibb.co/Z1LQZwz/20200319-221730.jpg https://i.ibb.co/VjDvc7s/20200319-221316.jpg https://i.ibb.co/89NM9W3/20200319-220636.jpg https://i.ibb.co/ygJJS2y/20200319-214121.jpg https://i.ibb.co/5j2Q1Cj/20200319-215740.jpg https://i.ibb.co/ZSnGtH4/20200319-212642.jpg https://i.ibb.co/1QLgKfv/20200319-214114.jpg

I put about 70000km on my engine with my catch can. Not the filter type ,no issues.still running strong .