Vibration madness online.
 

It seems this vibration issue is lingering for many. First, is there a link to 2001,x5 3.0 motor mount replacement? Second has anyone confirmed that this mount change fixes vibration in the cabin, steering wheel area. Strangely, the auto shift knob and area around the auto trans doesn't vibrate as bad as the driver door, steering wheel and flooring. Mechanic checked out drive-train connections and claims they solid. I just read that someone stated its the front CV joint. Ideas? Thoughts? Solutions greatly appreciated. I have an honest, professional mechanic who has worked on this x before. 178K. Thanks.:dunno:

Is it vibrating at idle? While driving? While braking?

It is at idle, in drive and reverse. Brake on. Almost disappears when in Neutral. minor in park. No vib in driving forward, just a strange bouncy feel in the front end. Steering and braking is normal. No swaying. No dipping. Steering is tight and precise. Great at highway speeds.

I think I have a similar issue. Ill be watching this thread!

Mad Vibrations
 

Diagnose:
Motor mounts replaced and firmed up ride and reduced vibration for awhile.
When the car is in D at a stop it vibrates intensely through the steering wheel and in the cabin. BUT no vibe on the center console. Vibrates in R too.
At idle in D no brake it will slowly roll forward with no vibration.
Idle in D it hangs at 500 rpm , in Neutral it rises to 650/700 and the vibration reduces greatly. Highway speeds are smooth, fast and responsive. No slipping or jerking in the tranny during upshifts Sometimes there is a response jerk motion when braking, then releasing and rolling. Like the tranny is catching the engine revs. Happens rarely.
Mechanic stated no codes. The complete drive train is tight and doesn't seem to be worn. -He mentioned possible plug issue. PLugs were replaces about 15K miles ago with Iridium. Coils are original 01,3.0 = 178500K. I replaced the rubber boot throttle body inlet tube and that seem to fix the problem after the mounts were replaced. But now it's worse. I tried running the AC
during testing and the vibration continued the same. I am at my witts end.
What else can I check out that would have an effect on this?:dunno::dunno:

Mine is having the exact issue as well. Subscribed!

Sounds like your idle is low. M54s should idle right around 750 RPM in drive. Common sources of this issue are: old, clogged fuel filter, worn VANOS seals, Idle Control Valve (ICV), dirty Mass Airflow Sensor (MAF). If I had to start somewhere, I would recommend cleaning your MAF and ICV. If that doesn't solve it, you can work to the fuel filter and the VANOS seals.

Additionally, Iridium plugs aren't ideal on these cars. I would recommend (at your convenience) switching to a NGK BKR6EQUP plug. Don't worry about ignition coils, as these only go bad by literally going bad. They don't really wear out over time.

My attention.
 

It does idle slightly above the 500 mark. But, fuel filter, where? The X5 did sit for a period of about 5 months last spring/summer in garage. Vanos seals, will they be making a noise? When you say coils "go bad" what does that mean?
OHM reading check? I will change the plugs even though it's been about 20K miles. What do I clean the MAF AND THE ICV WITH? CARB cleaner? Brake cleaner? About three weeks ago I replaced the rubber intake/throttle body boot and noticed my ICV was solid, no noise when shaken. Looked fairly clean.
Vanos seal job difficult? Where do you like to buy your parts?
Thanks again.
Jeff

Where to begin...the fuel filter is under the car, near the fuel tank. There is a large cover over the fuel tank, filter, and charcoal canister back there. Go to ECS Tuning ( OEM / Performance / Maintenance / Repair / Replacement Parts and kits for Audi, BMW, Mercedes Benz, Mini, Porsche and Volkswagen - ECS Tuning ) and look up the part, they usually have decent prices on maintenance items. If your car sat for a few months, without having the fuel "preserved" it could have created some varnish in the tank, which may have fouled your filter.

Coils don't generally go bad, they usually just fail. If you aren't getting codes, I wouldn't worry about the coils.

VANOS seals themselves don't make any noise, but sometimes they result in poor quality or low RPM idle, torque surges, especially low in the RPM range, and below-average fuel economy. If you hear a rattle near the front of your engine over in front of the valve cover, you can buy a kit that includes the "rattle kit." VANOS overhaul is a pretty in-depth repair process, but if you want to look into it, the parts are cheap and can be purchased as a kit from Beisan Systems, Beisan Systems - Products and click on the one for Double Vanos.

The MAF can be cleaned with any over-the-counter MAF cleaner, and the ICV can be cleaned with any Carb and Choke Cleaner. I used the Gumout brand on my car, and it worked great.

I usually stick with ECS Tuning for most of my stuff, as they offer competitive prices on most things, and shipping is generally pretty reasonable. Pelican Parts is another resource, and I've used them a few times. Other places, check out FCP Euro, they have great deals and discounted shipping going on right now.

I hope this helps. Sorry for the wordy reply, I just like to type. LOL

Much appreciated
 

No, I enjoyed your descriptions. Thing is I am getting great gas mileage. Last highway trip 22.5 and around town is usually 18. I do have to check more of the vacuum lines, particularly under the engine covers. Also, what have you found with regards to the air spreader/intake rubber grommets. There was a utube that dealt with this intake issue. I also want to be sure no of this is related to the exhaust side or emission air pump system. I did do all four O2 sensors last tune up. I will get the goods and give all this a try, not sure about tackling the vanos seal kit right now. Hopefully it's ok for awhile. I realize 180K on a 2001 is pretty good mileage. BTW, no oil burning or leaking...

From the way I understand it, the emission air pump (I think you're referring to the Secondary Air Pump) is only active for a relatively short period of time after the vehicle starts. It pumps fresh air into the exhaust stream while the catalytic converter comes up to operating temperature. Once the catalytic converter gets hot enough, the SAP shuts off. As far as I know, it doesn't really affect idle quality once the car is up to operating temperature.

I'm willing to wager that your VANOS seals are worn. Your car has 178K on the clock, and I'm betting that the VANOS is still all original. Replacing these has been implicated in improving lots of people's idle speed and idle quality. I'm not saying beyond a doubt that your fuel mileage will necessarily suffer with worn VANOS seals, but it has been shown on some occasions that people gain a mile or two per gallon after changing the seals.

The intake spreader...not sure what you're referring to. Intake manifold maybe? If that's the case, then yes, any problems with the intake manifold gaskets or any vacuum issues can definitely affect your idle as well. Best way to cheaply check the vacuum system is to buy a can or two of starter fluid. Start your car, spray the starter fluid around your vacuum lines and intake equipment. If the idle quality changes (speeds up briefly) then most likely you've found the source of a vacuum leak.

I would start simple, clean the MAF and ICV and go from there, those are simple and easy to do, as well as being inexpensive.

R U a tech?
 

That's is very precise and valuable information. I have seen utubes on changing those vanos and it looks like a big job. I have done engine rebuilds, front end rebuilds and drive train replacements. Vanos seems unnerving.
I'll start with the basics. Your information is great. What's the going price for a vanos kit and is it safe to buy aftermarket? BTW, Vanos is original. It's now 180K after the painful Atlanta trip, I had trouble doing a smooth over 75.
Thanks

I got my VANOS seals for right around $60 plus shipping. Not sure if the prices have gone up or not.

One thing to consider when you're thinking about doing VANOS work is that it also involves removing the valve cover, which means another set of gaskets, plus some high-temperature RTV. The VANOS seals are relatively cheap, but double that price once you've added in the valve cover gaskets and bolt grommets for the valve cover bolts and RTV to complete your seal job. At your mileage, I'll wager also that your valve cover gaskets are original and extremely brittle and will definitely break when you pull your valve cover off, so this isn't something that you can get away with reusing, and I wouldn't recommend it even if you could reuse them.

I hope all of this helps. Not to worry, you'll get that vibration and low idle situation fixed!

Thanks for the encouragement. I did change the v.cover years ago around 126K miles.
RTV is some kind of gasket sealer? I believe there is much to remove to get to the vanos, clutch fan, shroud. At this point might I also do the serp belt if it's been a few years 40K miles? What about the part for chain guide noise?

RTV is a sealant, sort of like caulk that you would use to seal a toilet. It stands for Room Temperature Vulcanizing, meaning that it forms a moisture-proof, pressure-resistant seal without requiring a source of heat to set it.

You are correct, that you would have to remove the fan and shroud to do the VANOS. Beisan used to have a pretty thorough DIY on their website. I'm sure it's still there, and it provides a very nice walkthrough of all of the prep work that has to be done, plus a nice pictorial step-by-step of how to do the VANOS seals themselves.

You might as well do the serpentine belts, as you will already have the fan off. While you're in there, if you haven't already done it, I would recommend changing your belt idlers and tensioners as well, since these can seize up and cause damage to other components under the hood (ask me how I know LOL).

As for the chain guide noise, I really don't have much input on the timing chain, since I've yet to have a timing chain issue at all, knock on wood. Maybe someone with actual experience can help answer questions about timing chain stuff. Sorry bro, I don't want to tell you things that I have no practical experience with.

Appreciate your candor. I think I saw a vid similar to that on Vanos. I see you live in the PNW, I used to live Eugene,OR area. Now FL. Oh well. Thanks for all your advice and experience with this issue.

I found a thread on xoutpost that talks about timing chain and chain guides, and this is what I have found:

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...n-guide-2.html

Sounds like most of the issues with chain guide noise is related to the M62TUB44 (4.4 V8) and the M62B46 (4.6 V8). From my cursory search it sounds like most of the issues were with the V8s, with very little report back from anything related to the M54 6 cylinder engines.

Just found this parts layout on ebay. I notice there are two different kits. Is it necessary to replace the piston ring or just the rubber/teflon rings?
What did you do?Stage 3 BMW Dual Vanos O Ring Seal Repair Kit | eBay
Big price difference, although this kit has everything for the job.
In your opinion what was the most difficult aspect of the repair? Is the torque wrench absolutely necessary?
J

I actually found it to not be a difficult job at all, mostly time consuming. With some patience, this is a surprisingly easy job to accomplish, with most of the effort coming during removal and reinstallation of all of the components required to accomplish the teardown to even get to the VANOS, if that makes any sense. For instance, you will have to remove your cooling fan and shroud, your cabin air filter and filter housing, your engine covers, your ignition coils, and your valve cover before you can even get to the VANOS housing.

Beisan Systems - Procedures - Double Vanos Procedure

Here is the procedure that I used and that comes directly off of the website where I ordered my repair kit. The kit that you have there is pretty all-inclusive, and for the money seems like a great deal, since it looks extremely complete to me. There are parts in that kit that the Beisan kit does not include, like the needle bearings and the new hardware. Some of that would be really nice to have, but other parts (needle bearings especially) are something that, to my knowledge, aren't needed unless you are repairing VANOS units and reselling them as remanufactured. Not saying it's not a good idea to replace all of the potential wear items once you have the VANOS unit off, I'm just saying that I've never heard of owners replacing those parts.

I would never recommend not using a torque wrench for something that directly impacts the performance and reliability of your car. I borrowed one from a neighbor when I did my repair on my VANOS, but you can generally get a torque wrench from an Autozone or O'Reilly if you don't know anyone who has one. That being said, however, the 8 nm (6 ft/lb) of torque needed to properly secure the VANOS unit and shaft bolts isn't all that much (6 pounds of force at the end of a 1 foot long bar) and should feel "snug" with a standard length 3/8" drive ratchet. Necessary? I don't know. Recommended? Definitely.

Unless your VANOS is making noise or you are having bad mileage and running issues while at speed, I wouldn't worry about addressing it right now. Start with the MAF and get rid of the iridium spark plugs. Use the stock NGK's that slowlandmcvane noted. There is only a performance decrease on these engines by using a non-factory plug.

I also recommend the Beisan kit/site. I avoid ebay in general.

Yes, chain guides is a problem on the 4.4/4.6 engines.

I bought a snapon digital torque wrench specifically for doing engine internals. For 6 ft/lbs I also recommend using an inch/lb wrench as most typical ft/lb wrenches don't go that low.

OK good points. First mpg on last couple of tanks is fine, the last highway was great. I don't notice any rattling or noise in general from the engine except the vibration issue. SO, I will start with changing the plugs to pure platinum. With the engine covers off I'll check the vacuum lines and spray carb spray around the intake area. I have owned this X since 38K miles and I have religiously changed syn oil and filter every 5Kmiles. I don't know if that has impact on longevity of Vanos or not. I also don't drive this very hard and fast. I hope it's just the plugs for now. Thanks again for all the support.

Quick plug question. NGK, do not use a Bosch? And the NGK's will still be the four prong plug? Pure Platinum, no IR blends either?
Jeff

Search this NGK BKR6EQUP or this: 12129071003.
Or if you prefer Bosch: FGR7DQP or 12120141871. Bosch is cheaper, not sure if that actually means anything.

Also, when you go to clean your MAF, I recommend getting a tamper proof torx set and actually remove the sensor from the housing and spray the sensor directly. Can't really spray the sensor very well with it in the housing. Doesn't need to be wiped down at all, just sprayed.

Exactly. Start with simple and cheap (plugs, MAF, possibly ICV cleaning), then work your way up.

Good Vibrations: Almost have to give up for now. Replaced both motor mounts, got a $418. quote to change the auto tranny mount; did for $140 instead. Left the shop, very light,slight vibe. Great fixed it. NOPE, a half an hour later, six lights and it's vibrating like before. SO, I thought, sub frame bushings, but those are on the back? BTW, the engine is perfect. Had it checked out by two different mechs. NO leaks, Vanos is fine. It drives great, smooth acceleration, tight turns and gets great gas mileage. Only vibes loudly in cabin when in"D", almost disappears in "N". No problem in Park. One mech stated it really isn't doing any damage to engine, but very annoying. I guess that's why it's a BM Trouble U. Thanks for advice.

When the shops have looked at it, have they driven the wheels on the lift to a speed where the symptoms would normally show up? That would enable someone to look underneath to figure out where the vibration is coming from, either by feel or with a stethoscope if it isn't super obvious.
Sounding more like transmission or torque converter problems.

There isn't any vibration, knocking or jolting when leaving a dead stop from idle either under idle or acceleration. No change in vibration when at stop, brake engaged and turning the steering wheel side to side. No change in vibration when engaging A/C, and the car has no change in movement forward from dead stop. Although not the same car, my old E30's vibrations that were similar to this came from the drive shaft/c.s.bearing. This area of the X is fine.
Starting back at engine source. But the engine runs sweet. BTW, when looking at the RPM dial where should the needle rest during idle, in "D" foot on brake?
On the line above the "0" or a needle thickness below the 1000 mark?
The RPM moves up slightly, about a needle thickness when shifted from"D" to N under braking.

Other than not addressing the vibration do new motor mounts add any improvement to ride/handling?

A couple of years ago I rebuilt the front end with new Bilstien Shocks and always thought the ride was bit stiff, eventually over time the front end started bounce lightly, but uncontrollably. Then, after the recent engine and tranny mount replacements the ride is like glass. It is so smooth and handling is great. I put the tranny through it's paces tonight. Using the sport shift mode through all gears up and down slow and fast and it was flawlessly smooth.
My guess is ICV. When I changed out the intake boot and had to remove the ICV I noticed a large rubber grommet connector. I wondered if this should be replaced when putting things back together. Could removing and replacing this old grommet created a leak around the ICV? As for the ICV I didn't get to test it and I noticed that it didn't rattle at all, solid, not movement. I mention this because there are several utubes showing cleaned ICV's rattling when shaken. There is also a 12 volt ground test that can be done to see if the inner mech is rotating. Other than that I am stumped. I leave for Atlanta in couple of weeks to relocate for a new position. Hopefully I can find a great BMW shop in the area that can assist without braking the bank.

I concur on the ICV. Has to be the likely culprit.

Just drove from Palm Coast to Tampa, FL, smooth, fast flawless until I get to the stop position. More research suggests Harmonic balancer or torque converter. But trans shows
no signs of dysfunction in any other gear, shift or speed. And when the brake is released and the engine idles it moves away slowly and the vibe disappears. It shifts smoothly at any speed whether using the sport shift manual system or simple automatic shift.
Harmonic B, most research claims that has the car warms up the rubber seal swells and softens thus reducing and eliminating vibration until complete failure. Most say the vibration becomes less as the car runs at normal temp. Not mine, the vibration is always there no matter what the temp, and it can start out very slight and then build to a very intense vibration the longer I sit in "D" brake engaged. AS soon as I shift into "N" the vibe subsides but doesn't disappear completely. I can't keep throwing money at it. ONE thought; do these X5, 3.0 engine mounts have to be Hydraulic? I have replaced engine and tranny mounts. The tranny mount removed was fine. Soft, not torn up or hardened and cracked. This is a real problem many have experienced. The engine
isn't vibrating erratically at idle. Plugs have been replaced. Intake boots replaced, MAF cleaned. Air filter replaced. Disa rebuilt and new.
Who knows ?? What the BMTrouble U knows?

Try some octane booster. When I was in Mississippi over a year go the stations there sold a 94 octane gas and Boy Howdy did my X like it. Peppy and ran much smoother. Perhaps your engine just can't stomach 91 with ethanol. Or maybe try 100% gas and see if that makes any improvement.

That might be a possiblitly, but I have run 93 on the last four tanks. Drives like a rocket.
It's only at idle it's having vibration issues.

Nothing?!

Vanos?
You should be able to look at your harmonic balancer and see if it has cracks.

mechanic checked tranny fluid, it was full and red. Checked what he could of the balancer and it seemed ok. Thing is this particular vibration may in fact be torque converter related, because it only vibrates radically in gears, never in neutral and you can barely hear the engine idle. Tomorrow, it goes to European Auto Service in Atlanta. I'll keep you posted.

I'll be curious what EAS finds out. You'd think something causing that much vibration would be obvious to pin point. Crazy

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VIBRATION...Just going to live with it. Took it into EAS in Atlanta and got nothing for my 300. bucks. They said it vibrates because the idle is low and there is nothing I can do about it. Really? It idles at the first line above 0. Moves up slightly in "N".
The guy took apart the serpentine belt because he thought it looked unevenly worn, it wasn't , just the top because of the idler pulley. Then he did a smoke test, no leaks, no vacuum issues, then a scan / reader, no codes, no nothing. He did have fun driving the crap out of it on the 285. Even said he would buy it because it was in such great condition. BUT, alas, I still have a vibration, now out 600 bucks, new motor mounts and tranny/case mount, which happen to be in fine condition before the trade out. This is sad. SO, what's the deal with idle issues on X5 -3.0's? MAF AND ICV,which he cleaned up all work fine. Strangely it does vibrate less with the A/C on in "D" at stop. Good thing, it's about to get very hot here in Atlanta I am told, and the A/C works great. Don't think I 'll be going down the BM trouble U road again in the future. BTW, anyone suggest a fair price for replacement rear taillights - the right one is rotted out, already fixed it once. It's toast and I need a new one. Can I upgrade to LED or will I get the light on the dash? Suggestions for company? Ebay? Thanks to everyone for trying to diagnose this issue. Done throwing money at it for awhile. Enjoy the ride. Miss my E30 rags.

E30 ftw!

For the X to stop vibrating raise the idle, by cleaning the thorttle body butterfly with TB spray and youl see the difference. Day & Night.