Ball Joint Removal?
 

Does anyone have experience in removing the front (upper control arm) ball joint from the steering knuckle? I have both the bolts that hold it in removed, now I need to figure out how to drive it out. It is pretty blocked from above by the CV axle boot. Curious if anyone else has done this and how they got the old ball joints out. (2001 X5 3.0).

Thanks

hi tankowner

I just went through this with my 2005. I found those two ball joints were a chore.

In researching what I came across were these tid bits that others posted as help:
*soak it with PB Blaster overnight
*use pipe wrench to twist the ball joint base within the knuckle by grabbing it from the bottom
*use an air chisel to impact rattle lose
*find right sized puller that can grab ball joint's nut shaft and pull downward
*remove the steering knuckle and then attack
*careful not to damage the ABS sensor, bearing etc, so no torch heating

Perhaps others here will have some other suggestions or tricks

I also found that a lot of posters here talk about all of the front end suspension parts being really easy to change but when you probe for details often they re-use the ball joints. I would agree that other parts on the front end were reasonable to change but the ball joints coming out of the knuckles were chore.

I will admit that it is the one thing in years that I took my car to a local small indy shop for. In the end he used an air rattler (like an air chisel with a u shape attachment) with 3 minutes of impacting to rattle them loose while pulling them downward. Took him 30mins per each ball joint to remove. The longer I watched the better I felt about paying a bit.

Hoping yours might come easier than mine (90K miles). I will say that changing out the ball joints was worth it. I had roughly a week with all new bushings and the old ball joints. Once I had the new ball joints in there the X tracks like a car again and the rattle which I could hear over speed bumps which dealer and previous owner never could find are fully fixed now. :D

Thanks, Junky! I appreciate the feedback; these are good tips.

I've done the lower control arms and the tie rods and, as you say, they weren't that bad. I was hoping these ball joints wouldn't be bad either, but I can see now that it won't be easy. I've done these before on other vehicles where I had to take the knuckle off and then drive the ball joints out with a big punch and sledge hammer. Those were pressed in ball joints, so I was hoping these ones would not be quite as bad. But, with all the crud and rust in there, I guess I am probably having to go the same route here. If anyone else has any good ideas, feel free to chime in. I will let you all know what eventually ends up working out.

I replaced both my ball joints last Fall when I also replaced the thrust arm bushings. I finally got around to replacing my control arms a couple of weekends ago and all combined make a huge improvement. Fortunately for me both ball joints didn't require any extra ordinary measures to remove. The "end" of the ball joint is open along the bottom ridge of your steering knuckle (just underneath where the CV axle mates to your hub). There you can spray generously WD-40 or PB and allow to soak. With a small pipe wrench fastened on the base of the ball joint, try to turn and break it loose. Another application of PB may be necessary. Once loose you should be able to twist and pull the ball joint out of the knuckle.

Good luck.

Thanks, Kristophe!

This pipe wrench approach sounds like it is worth a shot before I go through the trouble of pulling the knuckle.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Air hammer .....brrrrrrrrp

PB blaster was the key when I did my ball joints. Soak them and let them sit then attack with a pickle fork and some taps from a small sledge. The first side took a bit of convincing but the one that sat longer with the PB came out pretty fast.

Let me save you a headache and any future ones. One particular one i recently did i used torch, sledge, air hammer, pickle fork and didnt budge. This pulled it out immediantly.

Get this -

3/4" Forged Ball Joint Separator


You dont need anything else ever again for tierods/balljoints/ etc in suspension, remove the nut put this bad boy on, just grease the bolt threads and put an impact gun to it.

Comes off/out in 5 sec.

This tool cannot remove the wheel suspension joint. According to TIS, there is a special tool to be used to remove this ball joint, but I don't know where I can buy it. Anyone know where I can get the speical tool?

How do you know this separator can't be used?

Do you have a picture or the part number for the special BMW tool?

How would you use the separator tool to remove the balljoint from the knuckle? This tool will remove the arm from the ball joint, but you still have the stuck ball joint in the knuckle afterwards.

Thanks for the replys. To clarify, the ball joint that I am talking about is the one in the photo below.

This is the ball joint of the "upper" control arm (UCA) / tension strut rod. It is the foremost arm, or the one nearest the front of the vehicle. The housing fit up into the underside of the sterring knuckle and ball stud extends downward.

(Not the "lower" contol arm (LCA) where the ball joint is seated in the control arm itself and stud fits into the steering knuckle.)

A pickle fork and a BFH can usually take care of the LCA ball joint. The ball joint mounted in the steering knuckle, not so easy.

Im pretty certain you can use the tool on this... Just how a tierod goes into the knuckle - just this doesnt have an "arm" attached to it.

The flat part goes where the boot is and slim part ontop of the bolt.

When you impact the bolt in on the tool, it pushes the boot part up and out.

From recently replacing the front thrust arm which attaches to this, after that is off, there is enough room from the front of the knuckle (front of car direction) to put that tool on and pop it out.

Here you go...

Harbor Freight ball joint seperator - YouTube

Skip to 28 seconds.

Thanks for the video, that helps.

The difference between the E30 in the video and the X5 is the orientation of the ball joint. That seperator works wonders when seperating a control from the ball joint stud. I have already completed that step and am now trying to get the ball joint itself (the whole assembly as seen in the photo above) out of the steering knuckle. I can take a picture later and post it to help clarify which ball joint I am talking about and why it is such a bear to get at.

Thanks agian for the help.

Are you trying to remove the ball joint from the spindle?

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAwMFgxMD...Rn!~~60_57.JPG

A punch and BFH should be able to remove the joint from the spindle/hub. Once you remove the two bolts securing the joint to the spindle.

Or the control arm that attaches to the joint?

LOL . . . Sorry if I am causing confusion. Yes, I am trying to get that damned balljoint out of the spindle/knuckle - just as you have it in the photo. Forget about the control arm, it's gone at this point - I just want to get the ball joint out of the knuckle.

I sprayed it up good with penetrating oil last night. When I get home this evening I am going to go after it with the pipe wrench as suggested by Junkycosmos and Kristophe. I will take photos later.

Thanks again.

[Edit] If I had the entire knuckle removed (as in your photo), I would just drive the darn thing out. What I am wanting to do is take it out without having to removed the entire knuckle. I realize it may come to this, but I am going to give the pipe wrech a shot first.

Yes, we understand how this works where the balljoint is connected to the arm getting removed. But the balljoint in question isn't mounted like this. There is nothing to lever against. Can't find a picture of just the balljoint, here it is circled. Once the tension strut is removed you are left with the balljoint in the knuckle. Thanks to Stunt for his picture in his 4.6 engine thread.
http://www.xoutpost.com/members/raci...-balljoint.jpg

Ohhhh... Ok i see, its mounted differently then i thought.


In this case rent the balljoint tool from advance auto, its a huge c clamp with different fittings that for example allows you to push on the stud while not putting pressure on the top of it.

The ball joint is press fitted into the hub. The bolts are there just to prevent it from slipping out. Only way to get it out is to beat it out with a BFH. Or make yourself a tool with a Big C-Clamp some pipe stock and plate stock to push it out.

Heres a video of the other tool i am talking about, this will do it.

How to Replace a Truck Ball Joint : How to Press Out a Truck's Lower Ball Joint - YouTube


You can rent at advance auto parts free just put a charge on card and once returned its refunded.

You need to push from the top and not the stud to remove the ball joint.

I like real fix real fast video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHCPlh8Loug

I recently redid the entire front suspension and wheel bearings in my X5, the puller that is listed above is the exact same one which i used, (so exact in fact, i believe the one they took a photo of is mine!!) it worked like a charm! i have pretty much any puller/pusher/picklefork at my disposal and this one is always my go to tool for ball joints.
time is also a good tool to have. If you put the puller on, cinch it up a bit, then go off to do something else, you may find that the ball joint pops out while youre away!
Good luck with your project!
:cool:

once the ball joint was disconnected from the tension arm, i took it off and used a BFH on it, (placed a large impact socket on top of it, so i wouldnt damage the knuckle if i missed (when i missed!?) it did take alot of frustration out when i did finally get it to pop! its stuck in there good! (oh obvious question here but you did remove the two bolts that hold it onto the knuckle right?)

The free rental kit from Autozone works great for me. I have had some success with a pickle fork but it took many whacks with a 2 pound hammer. I have a ball joint separator tool but the kit or the pickle fork work much better.

In the real case, you cannot removed the tension strut from the ball joint before you remove the whole thing (ball joint with tensiion strut together) from the swivel bearing, because you do not have enough space to put the ball joint extractor to do it. So the problem is how to remove the ball joint from swivel bearing? Here is what I found in TIS, BMW uses this special tool to remove the ball joint from swivel bearing (the upper one), where can we get the special tool?

The special tool looks like a slide hammer with an attachment so that it threads onto the ball joint. Interesting. What is on the other side (non threaded side) of the ball joint? Can you just take a socket and hammer and whack it out?

I need to look into how to get this ball joint out if I need to. It's been 114k miles on my family's X5 and it may be time.

Edit: Looked at the expert village video. Looks like that is an easy solution with a tool rented from Autozone. I don't know if it would work on our ball joint though since it has those "ears". How much of a press fit are they? Maybe if they aren't that tight, you could just hammer it out from the back.

You don't have enough space to hammer the top of the joint. If you want to hammer it, you have to remove the whole spindle.

Yes, exactly, that is the issue here. If we go through the trouble of removing the whole knuckle, then we have access and can drive the ball joint out from the top with your tool of choice (BFH and drift, air chisel, rental ball joint press, etc.). But, for now, I am trying to remove the ball joint without removing the entire knuckle. As a matter of fact, I am off to do battle right now . . . I'll let you know how it goes.

By the way, the slide hammer (special tool) looks very interesting, I wonder how well it works. Thanks.

Well, I concede defeat for tonight. I was able to get the pipe wrench on, but couldn't get the ball joint to break free. Spent some time cutting into it with a wheel cutter, but it seemed like a losing cause. Tomorrow the knuckle comes off, which is fine I guess - I need new brake pads anyway, so I can get that done now, too.

That sours up the whole operation. :( Does the front axle get in the way much or can you just drop the knuckle down and be fine? Or is the axle in the way and that is why the knuckle has to come off of it?

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the X5's suspension and driveline and cannot imagine it in my head.

No idea how well it works, but it is from BMW TIS, which means BMW service center uses this special tool to remove the joint, so I believe it should works very well.

Don't know what all the fuss is about. I did not even know there was a special tool for removing the ball joint. When I changed mine I just soaked the joint in WD40 for a few hours, removed the two bolts holding it in place and then beat it out using a 2lb lump hammer on the end of the control arm as close to the ball joint as possible whilst holding on to the other end of the control arm in my other hand. I replaced the control arm as well as the ball joint so it did not matter that I beat it to death. As far as I remember the ball joint came loose fairly easily, maybe 10 or 12 blows with the lump hammer?

He removed the control arm so he doesn't have anything to beat on.

aha - there in lies the problem....

Yes, the CV axle is right above the top of the ball joint, so if you want to beat it out, you need to at least remove the outer end of the CV axle from the knuckle.


I suspect there will be some variation here, with some ball joints coming out easier than others. My X5 is real close to 200,000 miles and these have never been changed. I wire brushed all around the top, sprayed liberally with PB Blaster, let it soak over night and I still can't get the thing to budge. (Yes, for the record, I did remove the two bolts holding it in.) I will happily hook up the control arm again and pound on it with a 10 lb sledge, but I don't think that is going to gain me anything.

I think it would be worth a shot and you could probably get the rental tool from one of the auto parts chain stores and then find the right threaded fitting to mate up to the ball joint. The only problem for me is that I am doing this on my garage floor with front jacked up and I don't know that I would have enough room get the slide hammer in there and use it effectively.

Seriously..... put the control arm back on loose and attack it with a 2lb hammer - I think you won't gain anything using a 10lb sledge - you wont get it in there for a start!

Have you tried a bit of heat?

I was in the same situation. Used MAP gas torch on the knuckle around ball joint. I heated for at least 5 minutes and then drove ball joint out with the air chisel. It didn't move without heat.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was looking for the air rattler tool I mentioned in prior post. These go were two of the tips Indy mechanic had.

Save on Grey Pneumatic - CH117 at ToolTopia.com

and

Amazon.com: Lisle 54640 Pneumatic Tie Rod Rattler: Automotive

I believe he rattle mainly from the bottom. I can also confirm on the right side he did not remove the thrust arm from the ball joint prior but rather used it for leverage to pull down with while rattling. All of this was done with all other parts other still fully installed (well the tire was removed).

G Luck

I would put back on the control arm and see if you could get a slide hammer attached to the control arm and have a go at that.

What is side hammer? What does it look like? Any picture? Thanks!

This is the detail of the special tool I mentioned before. Special tool number 334200 and 334205.

OEM/Slide hammer with 18 threads (27033) | Slide Hammer | AutoZone.com

Now if you get a nut that goes over the ball joint, and weld that to a nut that threads onto this slide hammer, it would work like the BMW tool. If you think a nut is too small, you can get a standoff that has the correct thread.

I think that is what the BMW tool is anyway.

White lancer, many thanks . . . I didn't think it was going to, but it worked.

I put the control arm back on - connected both ends so I didn't have to hold the other end while I was beating on the ball joint end. I used a 3 lb hammer and it took a fair number of whacks, but it finally let loose. :thumbup:

New ball joint and tie rod installed and I'm finished for the night. The other side should go much better. Thanks for all the input everyone.

You are replacing the whole tension rod correct? As beefy as this part is, I'd be hesitant about reusing a suspension part that has been thoroughly tenderized with a hammer.

We're beating this tread more than the ball joint, guys :D

I thought it was worth mentioning. There is likely zero risk of the tension arm ever failing because you hit it with a 3lb hammer or used a slidehammer on it, being that arm is made of a large chunk of steel. But you could permanently change your alignment in a manner that could not be corrected by normal means. If this were on an aluminum control arm, the risk of failure would be non-zero, and therefore too high to not replace it.

How about a block of wood separating the hammer and arm? Or is there not enough space then?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

:iagree:

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...u_sZ4rP79ieBdk

You're welcome.... glad it worked out ok for you.

excellent! glad to see what sounds like a very effective and do-able solution here for others too

BFH once again, for the win.

When in doubt, pound it out (unless talking about bearings or axles lol)

bearings are getting replaced if getting removed so hammer away. in general, hammers are perfect for any parts that you are replacing, not re-using. Just take care to make sure you are causing inadvertent damage to adjacent parts because of the shock.

Absolutely not a good idea to force hammer it off, you definitely will damage the bearing by doing that. Replacing the bearing is another PIA.

You guys think that hammering on the arm will hurt the wheel bearing? Or is there some other bearing I'm not aware of?

I think it will be fine if you hammer on the hub or arm and it won't damage the wheel bearing. I know it is common practice to hammer on the steering knuckle of the E36 to get the front control arms out. Nobody goes out right after and replaced the wheel bearing because it may have been damaged.

Hammering the hub could damage the bearing. Hammering the knuckle or control arm won't. I think we just got distracted on what you should or shouldn't hammer. If you are replacing something, go ahead and hammer it, make sure you don't incidentally damage something else while hammering though. If you want to re-use a part, hammering isn't the best idea for removing it.

The bmw tool is a screw on adapter for a slide hammer. I have it. You thread it on to the ball joint and the end of the slide hammer. It works on some of them. Usually it doesnt. It just pops the ball out and leaves the cup in.

Please can you provide a link where I can buy the slide hammer and balljoint adaptor ?

Can't Remove BJ from Knuckle
 

I know this thread as been beaten to death already, but didn't want to start a new one...

I have spent the better half of two days trying to remove the ball joint. First I kept the thrust arm attached and hammered with a 4 lb BFH for awhile. No bueno. I then rented the ball joint press from Autozone, which consists of a huge C clamp and a few plates and different size pipe stock. Before using this, I purchased the 3/4" Ball Joint Remover from Harbor Freight to separate the thrust arm from the ball joint so I can use the tool from Autozone. I didn't realize until later that ball joint press kit will not work as you would be essentially compressing the ears of the ball joint into the knuckle.

http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/a...psadkdrbjl.jpg

Next I decided to wack at it from the top with a punch and hammer. I already had the CV joint removed for some room. As you can see below, I did some damage, but not enough.

http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/a...psukuii3hf.jpg

I've scoured the forum before posting, and the only other two options I can think of is renting a slide hammer that I do not know how to use for this case or (more preferably) purchase a super duty air hammer with a 3/4" tapered punch.

If anyone has any ideas please chime in. I'd like to get the car off the jack stands by next weekend (been 1 week already).

I used a screwdriver and a hammer. Put the screwdriver against the ball joint flange and the steering knuckle and pound. The flange will bend to the point the screwdriver blade can go in between the flange and steering knuckle. Keep pounding. The blade will act as a wedge and pull the ball joint down to where you can get a pry bar in there and finish pulling the ball joint. That's the way I did it anyway.

Fifty, I will try your method out and see if I have any luck!

An air chisel will zip that balljoint off in no time. Here's a previous post about DIYer getting frustrated with DIYing.

This video shows it being done with just a hammer, but they don't show it actually coming off the spindle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIBppxXXNKc

Upallnight,

That DIY'er was me! I couldn't get the axle but removed so I I got an impact wrench and air compressor and it came off in seconds. I will most likely get the air hammer now! Also the front end suspension on the x5 video was in pristine condition. Mine has dried cv joint grease splattered everywhere. Once I get everything off I'll give it a nice application of brake cleaner.

I'll make sure to take a video when I remove the BJ. Hopefully someone else will benefit from it.

Slip the strut bolts off and the thrust rods out of the way, then you can get a better whack at it with your bfh! You can also use a drift punch and a mfh ( medium hammer!!) and knock it loose (twist the ears you removed the bolts from! )
Don't forget the liberal application of heat to work in what ever loosening product you squirt on the ball joint.
I've had success with this method ( done dozens of these in the past!) I found that removing the knuckle from the truck , and placing it on a block or an anvil saves the strut from the wrath of the bfh!
Good luck!

A slide hammer won't be appropriate to remove the ball joint.

RFaber,

The thrust arm is completely removed. I also loosened the wishbone from the engine side so I could move the axle out of the hub.

I've tried hammering with die punches and drifts and with various size hammers (1 - 4lbs). You can't twist the ears, they look as they are fused to the hub! Keep in mind this is on a 2005 with almost 180k in northeast climate (MD to MN to OH).

If it was summer time I would take my time and figure it out without getting the air hammer. But I'll be moving in a month and it's getting cold! - Thanks for your suggestion though!

Heat and hit repeat until it falls off

I use a thin chisel hitting toward the center near the bolt holes. A couple hits on one and then move to other end though my X has spent it's life in Texas.

Ah, blessed with nice weather in the Pacific Northwest ! We're blessed with decent weather! If you can remove the knuckle you might be able to pry the ball joint ears away, and soak in a bit of penetrating oil. Then more blunt force trauma!! Good luck!

Do you have an air compressor ?
If you have tried the right tools as mentioned then its worth a mention that I've had good success with a non sanctioned tool in this situation: an air chisel / mini air hammer. Letting some PB blaster soak a few hours then the vibration seems to help. Usual caution since they hurt you or cause collateral damage.

Good luck.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01BF0YXK6/

Oh, and for the love of all things sacred, use some anti seize compound on the new ball joint! Sounds like you have the entire forum board cheering you on here! Good luck!!!

I spent two days trying to get mine out. I tried every technique and several tools. I finally gave up and bought the right one. It was out in 5 minutes.

This is the one I bought. It's bigger than the same style from harbor freight and grand auto. It might be the same as the Honda tool.

https://shop.ktcautotools.com/produc...puller-e53-e83

I also spent two day getting mine out. I am very decent with an angle grinder but even still I would advise EXTREME CAUTION with my method.

Okay, so you use your big grinder to cut the ball out of its socket from underneath, then the boot will smell a bit as you cut through. Start by opening cuts front and back (in line withe the trust arm) of the joint so its easy then to remove the ball from the housing. Then there is a plastic gasket inside the joint to remove. Once that is done and you are down to bare metal inside the joint you can use a dremel with a disc cutter for extra precision and cut a grove from the inside of the disc left to right careful not to go more than the width of the ball joint housing (4-5mm). The Dremel will be good enough to do the job, it takes time so cover your eyes and face and wrap up warm if your on a cold floor. Once you have a grove, I then use a impact wrench on the top of the ball joint and a 9lb short handle hammer 3 large wacks and it came off.

Lots of swearing, time and patients for this job unless you want to dismantle the entire show and get easier access.

On install I used some copper grease to the new ball joints but I figure that when I need to replace again they will be still an absolute pig to remove.

Hope that helps

I had a very similar experience on my 2001. Ended up using just the right tool, similar to the one shown there, and it made it easy. But I think the current problem is not with that part of the job.

That tool will separate the control arm from the ball joint. When I did mine, that was the hard part.

But I think for this issue, the control arm has already been removed from the ball joint, and now the task is to simply :D remove the ball joint from the knuckle, where it is pressed in lightly and secured with two Torx screws. For my 2001 with ~170k (all in CA), it was no problem at all. But it sounds like for many others it practically welds itself in there.

Regarding the grinder plan (and some other more extreme ideas), I would be very careful about damaging the knuckle. You'd hate to finally get it out of there and realize you gouged and deformed the hole so the replacement will not fit.

Here's a question / new idea ...

Do the holes from the two Torx screws that hold the ball joint go all the way through the knuckle? More specifically, can you thread those screws in from the back side?

If you can do that, I'd make a little plate that can push the right-sized socket from the back side to press the ball joint out, tightening the screws in parallel to press the joint out. I'm generally concerned about collateral damage in cases like this, and go for the more finessed solution. If this is possible, and if it has a chance to work, the #1 goal while doing it is to keep things aligned (the socket, and both screws tightening) with the bore of the ball joint. If you are pressing and it is not aligned, you'll be making the problem harder for yourself.

If you can only get one screw in, but not two, maybe you can lever against that one. Pressing can be very different from hammering sometimes.

If neither are possible, I'd go the slide hammer route, mainly since that gives you the best chance of getting it off without damaging the knuckle. You'll want to eliminate as much compliance as possible in the area to make this work, and align the slide hammer with the bore hole.


EDIT - another idea, a little more things to do, but almost (;)) guaranteed to work:
- Get some longer screws that will fit into the existing two holes.

- Get/fabricate/hack together a plate with two holes in it to fit those two longer screws (through holes), and a third hole to fit the ball joint stud (through hole).

- Use the two long screws along with a couple of nuts to hold the plate a couple of inches away from the ball joint (as close as possible, but far enough for the following to work ...). Adjust as best as you can to make the plate perpendicular to the ball joint bore hole

- Use the original ball joint nut (castle nut?) on the ball joint stud (which is protruding through its hole in the plate) to gradually tighten.

- Hopefully the two screws keep things aligned, and the ball joint nut will provide a steady, aligned, *pulling* force (which in cases like this is always better than a pushing force, since it is self-aligning vs. self-binding). If you are unable to stop the ball joint stud from spinning while torquing it, then just tighten it as well as you can with the other screws+nuts loose, and then apply the separating force by carefully alternating between the two nuts.

- As I usually do with separating things like this, I'd get things loaded up with a good reasonable amount of force, then tap with a hammer to hopefully provide something to trigger the actual separation.

On my 2002 the mounting screw holes went through the knuckle. The replacement ball joints came with new longer screws and self locking nuts

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I gave up after 3 days of heck, gave to shop who said it was hard to do, but did not give up trade secrets.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

They probably used the air chisel method. Very effective when you have seized in suspension components.

Thank you all for the tips and suggestions.

Got it our today in about 5 seconds with the air hammer! Will take a video when I do the other side this weekend. I was planning on putting this new Febest CV joint and boot kit on today but didn't have the correct clamp banding tool. Will tackle it all this weekend when its not raining. Here are some pics though!

http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/a...psrhntbx6q.jpg

http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/a...pst4nkpes6.jpg

:iagree:

If you have the right tools, any job is fairly easy.

Make sure you wire brush that rust and apply anti-seize to the new ball joint.

This is the hammer that I used with my air hammer to knock out the ball joint. A chisel will just split the ball joint apart, while a punch may just knock a hole in the ball joint.

http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/images/...xTd/s-l225.jpg

This hammer spreads the load of the punch throughout the top of the ball joint.

Also a long barrel air hammer is more effective since the hammer has a longer travel thus more force when it hit.

One is drilled through, the other is blind. You cannot thread them in from the top, as the half-shaft is in the way.

Yeap, its the ball joint that is seated in the Knuckle alright. It's poor design if you ask me. I love it when e39'ers post the 'Oh, use the ball joint removal tool!" God Damn it, I wish I could. Those ball joints are stuck in their faster than an Alabama Tick.

I think this is about right

Its a painful job without an air chisel, as I said, I am good with a grinder and did mine with out damaging the knuckle, but you need time and patients. After you weaken the ball joint housing, then the BFH comes into play. Smash it, bang it, and go to town on it.... it will come out... but it makes you work for the victory.

Good luck.

Last night did front suspension refresh on 05 4.4 with 125k miles. I did expect some struggle, but those ball joints put up some serious fight! On the left side, I had to cut ball out of the socket to remove it! The air hammer helped a lot, but not until major cutting with angle grinder. Both ball joint soaked with penetrating oil for over 24 hours. The whole job took over 4 hours. I spent half the time to complete same work on my 03 3.0 with 200K miles. On both cars these parts never replaced in the past.

The wire brush attachment on the dremel was really good for cleaning all the rust off. Will put everything back together this weekend when the weather warms up!

Is that a 1" hammer head? Was considering that but wasn't sure if that was too big for the top of the balljoint. I got a 3/4" tapered punch and it worked pretty well. It was a lot smaller than I thought it would be, so the 1" will definitely work too and is probably a better choice for the reasons you mentioned.

That is correct. Although I did remove the half shaft from the hub as I am replacing my CV joint at the same time.

Thanks, I got the drivers side out a few days ago with the air hammer and will do the passenger side this weekend. Stay tuned for a video with the air hammer in action!

Wow! I'm surprised you can't get it out with the air hammer from the start. Took me around 5 seconds, although mine was a super-duty Ingersoll Rand air hammer. What punch/hammer did you use on the air hammer? Also my drive axle was removed from the hub so I had more room to work with.

Would the anti-seize, while easing future removal, not compromise the security of the joint once installed?

Referencing the Workshop Manual,

"Keep recess for guide joint, bore in tension strut and guide joint
journal clean and free from grease."

BMW Workshop Manuals > X Series E53 X5 4.8is (N62-S) OFFRD > 2 Repair Instructions > 31 Front Axle > 12 Struts W.rubber Mounts > 3 RA Removing And Installing_replacing Guide Joint In Swivel Bearing

The nut will secure it but I don't lubricate press fittings. They are press fittings for a reason.

Good catch. I will not either. Perhaps the best thing you can do for installation is clean it well with a wire brush or sand paper.

Can anyone comment on whether you need a special tool to press them in there, or will the torx screws be enough to press it in there?

should be pressed in

Don't use the torx screws to pull them in. You couldn't use the big c-clamp and cups to push it out, but you can use it now to push it in. Most auto parts stores such as Autozone or O'reilley will loan you the tool for free.

I wouldn't think so. It's the screws that are holding the ball joint in place.

When I did mine I sprayed PB blaster the day before and had no trouble removing them other than almost stripping torx bolts due to design and tight space.

Also, no issues when installing new ones. I just made sure that everything was clean and there was no need for pressing them in. They went in by hand effort.

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...gs-delete.html

Similar to me ('01). Nothing difficult about pulling the old ones out or putting the new ones in. I used Lemfoerder for the replacements, which I think is what the originals were too. But they changed from internal Torx to external Torx for the screws (or vice versa, I don't remember).

I can only second oldskewel, as I used Lemfoerder parts. Make sure the inside of the knuckle is free of rust and clean. PB or WD40 the hell out of it then copper grease the backside of the ball joint housing and the lugs where the torx slot through. Lets be safe on this one as its about to have 2 tons pressing it in until I have to change it out and likelyhood is it will be stuck in there like last time even with all my prep to make sure it doesnt. I need to switch my arms out as I want to install Powerflex blushings. Means that I will have to take off control arms and I am not so sure that I will not damage the ball joints so I am getting a couple of them from Europarts as they have a sale on.

Mine too, but the bolts were so tight /corroded, the external E-torx heads just twisted off... despite heat, PBBlaster and careful persuasion. Probably why they changed the design (was external/E-torx, now supplied with internal/torx). Had to yank the knuckle and drill them out.

Mine slid in by hand. No press required.

Mine did as well, just slid right in! At least the press kit is a free rental.

Here's how I removed the BJ's

https://youtu.be/RLUjKoP62l4

This is the ball joint tool I use:

That won't work for removing the lower ball joint out of the upright.

Yeah that tool is no good for the lower ball joint removal as its pressed into the knuckle of the wheel hub. This might be useful as a press to install the new ball joint but as I say, if you clean all the rust out of the knuckle, PB/WD40 the heck out of it, then copper grease/anti seize compound all around the top of the ball joint not forgetting the lugs where the torx go through then when you need to get them out again, should be okay. Now the reason I do all this prep is that I installed mine 18 months ago and now I have a Powerflex bush kit to install on the control arm. So I bought some new Lemforder ball joints as they are on sale at Euros and the likelyhood of me splitting the boot on the ball joints when I remove the existing is hight. For £70 bucks I can fit new ones for peace of mind I get new parts in and don't have to worry about being really careful. I will update you all at the weekend if all my prep to make the ball joint easy to come out works for if its a total SOB again.

Right, ball joints out with a bit of a fight at the weekend. Not nearly as bad as before, no cutting required but I did have to hit it with a BFH about 50 times. so... Unscrew torx bolts which secure them on to the knuckle, then used a blunt chisel on lugs, after about 5 mins of hammering it slowly began to rotate, then from above I used 20mm socket on a extender bar and pounded on it with BFH and it came free. The anti seize had done its job but still they are in there real tight. Also I fitted my Powerflex bushes and I can report they are very very good. Its stopped my clunking, although my bushes had gone and the steering is much more dampened and tight under breaking. It used to dart a bit left and right quickly. Now it is solid and comes to a stop with no vibration. I am very happy. I know that these are not cheap parts and you have to press the old ones out and the new kit is an easy assemble in, but its now done for life.

I just found two slide hammers look like in the attached pics. Wonder if they are good for pulling out the ball joint or which one is better?

I think #2 with the box would be good for the ball join in the knuckle. That is, if the hole in that box is big enough for the ball joint thread to go through

Thanks for the reply! Just checked that the diameter of the hole is 24mm. I think that the hole is too big as the nut size is just 22mm. Any solution?

A couple of big washers to prevent the nut from going through the hole. Washers have to be thick enough to absorb some of the poundings from the slide hammer.

The slide hammer might work. The BMW dealer tool is a slide hammer with an end that screws on the ball joint. I couldn't find a generic one that fit. The box looks like it might with the washer idea. Keep us posted!

On my 2005 4.4, both ball joints (never replaced before) came out easily (without using any special tools) after thoroughly spraying liquid wrench all around the ball joints a day earlier and a couple of hours before attempting to remove them. The driver side popped off just by tugging side to side the still connected arm. The passenger side required two light blows on a screw drive placed on top of the ball joint and it popped off right away. Leave the arm still connected to provide leverage.

As a couple of others have pointed out, I would say the critical factor is to apply liquid wrench well in advance of the project. The ball joints were rusted on and thus I think it would have been extremely difficult to remove them without thorough lubrication. You have to give ample time for the liquid wrench to seep through the joint. I was surprised how easy they were to remove.

:iagree:

Reviving an old (but very useful!) thread.

Currently have both my spindles out lying on the garage floor (01 3.0 140kmiles).

There is NO WAY those ball joints are coming out while the spindle is still on the car!!

Got one ball joint out so far - I needed two days worth of presoak in penetrating oil, heat, and BFH. Beat the absolute hell out of it with the BFH and a punch and it finally went, got the other one to do tomorrow.

I also managed to snap both inner etorx boots on both sides (the drilled through bolt, thankfully not the blind hole one). The corrosion holding the bolts in was stronger than the bolts themselves! Got those to drill out now too.

Did you manage to do it Ross?

Am struggling with both sides on mine. Tried the hammer and chisel approach and even managed to bend the bolt hole lug/ears on one so thought it waws going to go but didnt. Going to spray well this evenng and have another go at the weekend. Thinking of making a puller as described earlier in the thread using some threaded rod and steel plate, was a bit concerned about stripping the threads but then thought about cutting the ears off and winding a washer and nut up the thread so the force isnt applied to the thread but rather the knuckle. Sadly, I am doing it on axke stands too so a slide hammer isnt going to work as dont have enough height.

Yup, both sides done...but...I had to remove the entire hub carrier/ knuckle / spindle - whatever you want to call it to do it.

Placed the knuckle on two blocks of wood either side of the balljoint, and beat the ball joint out with a 4kg lump hammer and drift from above.

There is absolutely no way I could do it with the knuckle still attached to the car - the force I applied was tremendous and percussive..you’ll never pull it out if they’re as stuck as mine were.

If I had to do it again, I’d just bite the bullet and get the knuckle off and onto a bench straight away, and not mess about with it still attached to the car - I think that saves time in the long run.

Good luck!!

Thanks, I may have to bite the bullet and do that then. I have wasted quite a few frustraing hours already. Well done.

Rust, water and salted roads make steel and aluminum bind into a one unit mess. Good luck guys.

Meanwhile when new the process was real simple, as everything was not frozen in place. BMW Service manual procedures.... :bustingup

Necessary preliminary tasks:
• Remove integral link.
• Support wheel carrier with universal jack.
• Detach shock absorber at pivot arm.

Remove circlamp (1).
Assemble special tool 33 4 191 / 33 4 192 / 33 4 193 and 33 3 010 as illustrated. Slotted side of special tool 33 4 191 must point to the wheel carrier.
Pull out ball joint by twisting the nut on the special tool 33 3 010 .
Installation note:

Install new circlamp (1).

Push in new ball joint (1) until limit position using special tools 33 4 191 / 33 4 192 / 33 4 194 and 33 3 010 .

Except we’re talking about the front balljoints!!

Good pics though - have done my rears too, using hydraulic pullers to get the old one out and standard ball joint tool (like the BMW one shown..) to push the new ones in.

The trick I've seen used (and will likely be using myself soon) is to apply pressure with a long crowbar to pretension the bolt to come out then smack the arm sideways to make it "ring" like a turning fork. The vibration works the beveled post free.

Wouldn't hurt to get some liquid wrench into the joint first.

I remember changing the front thrust bushings and one of the arms just wound not come out. A good workout with the 3# hammer and my persistence paid off but I didnt learn the trick above until later.

Except we’re talking about removing the balljoint from the knuckle, not the control arm from the balljoint.

Ringing works though, and is a time honoured method - usually using two hammers simultaneously either side of the taper to be freed and “ringing” it off.

You have to put the control arm back on to have something to hit. Not sure if you did that. A pickle fork concept will work in that case. Since you already got the control arm off the "big duh" is to use the bolt from the ball joint to pull it out.

Set up with something akin to a donut of steel around the ball joint threades rod, put the arm on with just a few threads make sure it's loose on the top and when you tighten the big bolt, the donut gets tight on the knuckle before the ball stud gets into the control arm. Get that tight and if it doesn't pull out just from tension hit it with a hammer to ring the part it should pop out.

You can’t do that without first removing the two ears the bolts go through, and I’m not sure there’s enough land there to get a steel donut around it. Even then, these things are in there! People is this thread have managed to pull the balljoint out of its retainer trying similar things...

I’ve done it now, and had to remove the knuckle to get to the top of the ball joint. Big lump hammer and drift and they went, but I had to really, REALLY beat those things to get them shifted. To pull or push them out is going to take some serious force....

when i took just the front thrust arms off, one came off pretty easily the other i was losing weight by the time it popped off; i can totally see pulling the ball joint apart like you describe because what i described could easily put 15,000# of force on the pin or more; a normal torque on a 14mm bolt is 18,000#

would you have had to remove the knuckle completely or, as in doing the front bearing could you have just removed the bolts from the front shock tower to get a better angle, especially with the front control arm off even more mobility.

Also; i have an electric palm nailer; it's about the size of a softball and can pound a 16 penny nail in in about 3 seconds, i've used it for banging out parts like these, and will probably bring it out when i do my rear control arms soon, it hits harder than i can and needs no swing.

The biggest issue is getting on to the top of the balljoint to pound it out - if you’re doing the front wheel bearing you’ll be pulling the driveshaft anyway, so you may be able to get a good swing on it that way.

I would recommend supporting the knuckle on blocks when you hit the balljoint - you will be really hitting that hard, and it’s not going to do the shock tower or other joints any favours if the load transfers to them. Also there’ll be a fair amount of movement without he control arm in place.

Personally, I think you’ll find it easier just to get the knuckle off completely and do it on the bench. If you’ve pulled the driveshaft and removed one control arm, it’s not a big deal to remove the other two and the two big bolts holding the knuckle to the shock tower.

Is the ball joint being seized in place only an issue in places where they salt the road? They don't do that here and my X5 is very clean underneath (most I've got is some dust).

Asking since I need to do both my lower ball joints.

It’s certainly worse in salty environments- my car was previously owned in Southampton (coastal town in the UK) but I think just age is also relevant.

Expect it to be a b***h of a job, and if it’s not...bonus!!

It's entirely possible that you'll have no trouble at all. I had no real problems when doing this on my ~170k mile 2001 in about 2015, in good-climate, no-salt California its whole life.

I may have needed a good selection of pullers, etc. to get just the right pull in just the right spot, but generally try not to use a hammer on my cars, and did not have problems on this one.

So YMMV seems to be especially true for this job, since there are plenty of nightmare stories out there.