Originally Posted by trader4 (Post 1007925)

So performance and luxury means the CV boots should rip at 50K, while Honda last 3X+ on a car that costs half as much? That the window regulators should break, with the windows crashing down, breaking into bits? I've gone through 3 window regulators on this X5.

Originally Posted by trader4 (Post 1007925)

So performance and luxury means the CV boots should rip at 50K, while Honda last 3X+ on a car that costs half as much? That the window regulators should break, with the windows crashing down, breaking into bits? I've gone through 3 window regulators on this X5. In 4 decades of owning various cars, I've had exactly one other window regulator fail. And that was in a MB when I took it to the car wash when it was 20F out and later tried to open a window to pay a toll. It was frozen and it broke. The X5? It's windows fall down sitting in the driveway. How about the infamous FSR blower resistor? They've been failing for a decade. Or the aux cooling fans, with the miracle PWM design, that fail one after the other, and cost $450. That's luxury/performance? And then you have folks here telling the guy that he should expect to have to replace all the gaskets and seals at 100K, because they are known to leak? Good grief, that's not how cars are supposed to be built.

None of that has anything to do with luxury, performance, or 15K oil changes. It's bad design, crappy parts. I'm not saying they do everything wrong, but they sure have enough things very wrong with these cars and I'm going to tell the truth, not make excuses.

Originally Posted by upallnight (Post 1007857)

People that buys a new car normally do not keep the car beyond the warranty period. The free maintenance program is just a marketing ploy by all the car makers to attract car buyers. If you change the oil every 3,000 miles or 7500 mile you would have change the oil 5 times or twice before the free 15,000 miles maintenance kicks in. BMW is just hoping the car last beyond their warranty period with their free maintenance. After that they don't give a rat ass about the car since it will be "Out of warranty". Try asking a BMW dealer to do a transmission fluid change and they will tell you the ATF is "Life Time". You couldn't even pay them to do a ATF change.

It's call plan obsolescence. BMW make their money from selling new cars. If cars last as long as refrigerators all the car maker will only be building cars to replace cars that are no longer operational. Do you buy a new refrig every 5 years? We have a Sub Zero for the last 15 years and if it broke down we will get it fix since they offer a 10 years warranty on their frig.

Originally Posted by upallnight (Post 1007654)

Here's an excerpt from the current BMW Free Maintenance Program to all new owners.

Exclusions from coverage include the following:
Items reimbursable under your New Vehicle Limited Warranty
Gasoline and diesel fuel
Gasoline and diesel fuel additive
Diesel glow plugs
Diesel particulate filter
Windshield washer additive (except when in conjunction with scheduled maintenance)
Tires, wheel alignment, tire balance and rotation
Parking brake shoes/linings
Reset Tire Pressure Monitor
Wear and tear of soft trim items, such as: seats, carpets, moldings, headliner, door panels and all chrome trim
Damage, including consequential, which results from negligence, improper operation of the vehicle, wear and tear or deterioration due to driving habits or conditions, improper repair, environmental influences, flood, accident or fire damage, road salt corrosion, alteration, installation of non-genuine BMW accessories, or use of improper, poor quality or contaminated fuel
Altered or unreadable Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) or odometer irregularities or vehicles where the true mileage cannot be determined
Maintenance or repair after the vehicle is deemed a total loss
Maintenance or repairs performed by other than an authorized BMW center within the United States or Puerto Rico
'Topping off' low fluids (e.g., engine oil, antifreeze, washer fluid, etc.) except when done in conjunction with a scheduled maintenance or other required maintenance work (as outlined in the customized maintenance checklist printout) that is performed during an applicable Maintenance Program period
Vehicles used in competitive events
Oil changes performed outside the recommended maintenance intervals as indicated by the Condition Based Service
Any other vehicle-specific exclusions described in the Service and Warranty Booklet included with the vehicle

If you look at the oil service indicator light I bet you it won't be going on at 3,000 miles between oil change.

Originally Posted by bcredliner (Post 1007965)

Is your point what is excluded should be included in the warranty?

Originally Posted by upallnight (Post 1008012)

My point is that if you wanted to change the oil in your car at a different interval then what BMW specify, BMW maintenance program would not cover it. So if BMW schedule is 15,000 miles between oil change and the wife drives the x for short trips and have the car idling for long period of time, that would be considered harsh driving condition, but BMW will not alter their schedule for it.

Originally Posted by upallnight (Post 1008012)

My point is that if you wanted to change the oil in your car at a different interval then what BMW specify, BMW maintenance program would not cover it. So if BMW schedule is 15,000 miles between oil change and the wife drives the x for short trips and have the car idling for long period of time, that would be considered harsh driving condition, but BMW will not alter their schedule for it.

Originally Posted by upallnight (Post 1008012)

My point is that if you wanted to change the oil in your car at a different interval then what BMW specify, BMW maintenance program would not cover it. So if BMW schedule is 15,000 miles between oil change and the wife drives the x for short trips and have the car idling for long period of time, that would be considered harsh driving condition, but BMW will not alter their schedule for it.

Originally Posted by trader4 (Post 1008123)

IDK what exactly the BMW system monitors, but in general, I thought that cars with similar systems do monitor a number of driving parameters, including short trips, to determine how soon an oil change is due.

And IDK what data those that say the oil isn't being changed frequently enough are relying on. There are a wide array of opinions. Jiffy Lube will tell you to change oil at 3000, whether it's conventional or synthetic. I think that's nuts and they have no data to back it up. Is going to 15K the best practice? Probably not, even BMW apparently has now reduced it to 10K. Is it based soley on saving BMW the cost of oil changes on the first 100K miles? I don't think so. For example, my Porsche 911 also had a 15K oil change recommendation and it did not have any free oil change program period. The tradeoff of having cars with engines that are shot at just past 100K miles, while saving the small cost of 3 additional oil changes, isn't one that I think a rational manufacturer would make.

I think pushing the oil change interval can have an effect on the life of an engine. But I don't see following the BMW suggested oil change interval being the reason a car needs a new timing chain, new valve seals, has all kinds of leaking gaskets, etc at 100K. There are a lot of other quality related problems with these cars, eg window regulators that break and fall down, CV boots that fail at 3X the rate of other cars, FSR blower resistors that suck, an aux fan from hell, etc. How about that great oil separator design, that when it fails, can trash the whole engine? And most of those things are ones that decent replacement parts could easily fix over the last 14 years, yet we still have the same sucky parts. So, I don't buy that the engine problems are necessarily the result of 15K oil changes.